Help with a FED-1...

[vickersdc]

Hi there, I'm fairly new to this rangefinder thing and bought myself a FED-1 (although it's engraved as a Leica). The lens mount is brass and when I went to unscrew the lens the metal ring with the distances engraved on it stayed on the camera and not with the lens!
Clearly someone has been tinkering with this camera in the past and I have to admit that the reason I bought it was as a project - something to CLA and try out.
However, I can't get the body off because I can't reach the lens mount screws as they are under this brass ring! I hope that all makes sense?;)
Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this ring off? I thought about trying to knock it round with a small piece of hardwood againt the infinity lock bit? Maybe I'll just cut it off and buy another lens!?
Cheers, David.

[w3rk5]

Hi David and welcome. Just a word of caution before you try any of these suggestions...........you could potentially mess up your FED 1. :(

Try applying a little penetrating oil into the threads?

Try sticking it in the freezer for 1-2 hours and try unscrewing it again.

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

[reagan]

As w3rk5 says, PROCEED WITH CAUTION.

The ring should unscrew with a little help to break it loose. The "oil & cold" mentioned should help. Also, there is a screw hole near the 10m mark and another close to the 1m mark? Maybe a pair of small needle nose pliers GENTLY inserted in these two holes and turned CAREFULLY ccw would break it loose and then be unscrewed by hand.

There are screws missing from these holes that would allow the ring to come off with the rest of the lens. If you can find screws to fit these holes, the lens will be worth re-assembling and keeping. (see screws in attachment photo)

Good luck.

[vickersdc]

Well, I threw caution to the wind and found a hardwood wedge and whacked it with a hammer - actually when I say whacked, I really mean gave it a few gentle taps:rolleyes: .
It actually came off quite easily (fortunately); of the two screws in the lens flange, one is missing (between the 5 & 7 markings) - any ideas on where I can find a replacement?
I really want to give this camera a CLA and look after it - it may not be a real Leica and it may be brass but I'm kinda surprised just what a hefty beast it is! Quite well made actually.
The lens needs to come apart as it is filthy, but apart from a bit of dirt accumulated over the years it's in very good condition - the shutter curtains are pristine.
I am sort of intrigued about the serial number - 10530, which as a Leica serial number would make it a 1928 Leica I (which it isn't) and as a Fed would make it's manufacture around 1935 - but it's got the 1950's wide flared shutter button collar and later B-25-50 settings.
Anyway, thanks for the helpful advice, it's useful to know these little tricks (I have a feeling I may be getting more of these Russian rangefinders!).

[Jocko]

Hallo David! It's an unfortunate fact that "Leicas" are often made from rather knackered cameras - but once it's sorted out you'll have a real joy. I have a Leica IIIf, but for some intangible reason actually prefer the FED. It's a fine little thing!

All the best, Ian

[oscroft]

(I have a feeling I may be getting more of these Russian rangefinders!)
I should think that's pretty much guaranteed :) My first one was a FED 1 too, and I too was impressed by its solid feel and its build quality. I had no plan at all to buy any more at the time - it was just a one-off thing that took my fancy, but now I've got four fsu bodies with another on the way, and a boxful of lenses. And I love using them :D

[reagan]

"...any ideas on where I can find a replacement?"
Know anybody that works on clocks or sewing machines? Or you might give DAG a call.
DAG Camera
Telephone
608-835-3342
dagcam@chorus.net
Office Hours
10AM - 6PM Monday through Friday
(I have a feeling I may be getting more of these Russian rangefinders!).It's Soviet Crack... one use and you're hopelessly hooked. Your checking account will slide to zero, your credit cards will skyrocket to max and your left eye develop a permanent wink... but you get to grin alot. :rolleyes:

[vickersdc]

Know anybody that works on clocks or sewing machines? Or you might give DAG a call.

Great idea - there's a guy who lives just down the road from me who used to repair watches and clocks (and he lives in the rather aptly named Tick Tock Cottage!).

[w3rk5]

Well, I threw caution to the wind and found a hardwood wedge and whacked it with a hammer - actually when I say whacked, I really mean gave it a few gentle taps:rolleyes: .
It actually came off quite easily (fortunately); of the two screws in the lens flange, one is missing (between the 5 & 7 markings) - any ideas on where I can find a replacement?
Glad to hear you've taken care of your lens issue. I also had a missing screw issue with my J-12. A local watch repair person took care of that for me. :)

I have a feeling I may be getting more of these Russian rangefinders!.
Buckel up your seatbelt.............here we go. :D

It's Soviet Crack... one use and you're hopelessly hooked. Your checking account will slide to zero, your credit cards will skyrocket to max and our left eye develop a permanent wink... but you get to grin alot.
LOL! I like the "permanent wink" remark. That just killed me.:)

[vickersdc]

Things are getting serious - I've started browsing evilBay and I'm focussing on 35mm rangefinders. Not happy with checking it out once a week, or even once a day. this is something that needs to be looked at on an hourly basis - just in case! HELP!!!

However, back to more mundane matters, and my Fed 1G which currently is sitting on my table in a state of partial disassembly. Can I just confirm that before I start ripping the shutter assembly apart, that it should not be in a 'cocked' state?

Thanks, David.

[Xmas]

try

http://jay.fedka.com/

Noel

[reagan]

Can I just confirm that before I start ripping the shutter assembly apart, that it should not be in a 'cocked' state?You are correct. And Jay's site mentioned above is excellent.

[ZorkiKat]

However, back to more mundane matters, and my Fed 1G which currently is sitting on my table in a state of partial disassembly. Can I just confirm that before I start ripping the shutter assembly apart, that it should not be in a 'cocked' state?

Thanks, David.

Even if it was in a cocked state, the shutter would likely fire somewhere along the way as you take its pieces apart. :)

Jay

[vickersdc]

Thank you for your help everyone... it's a whole voyage of discovery and I'm enjoying it so far!

[vickersdc]

I've managed to scrouge half an hour as the wife is out to disassemble my camera a bit further (I'm supposed to be doing the decorating :rolleyes: ).
This turned out to be quite interesting - I'd assumed from the shape of the rangefinder coupling, shutter button and spring at the base of the camera that I had a FED-1G. However, when I removed the rangefinder housing and looked under it was perfectly obvious that this was a Zorki (or a FedZorkinstein). Can anyone help identify this camera further? The top engraving for a Leica is very :rolleyes: well done (i.e. in hiding the Zorki name) and the Zorki name itself is in Cyrillic rather than Latin. The serial number (10530) would suggest an early Zorki wouldn't it? Could this be a camera from the Fed-Zorki period - before Zorki broke away from Fed?
It has the early Zorki / Fed type spring, the cover is held on with 3 screws front and back, the early serial number, Cyrillic writing and Fed-style rangefinder coupling certainly hints at it. I wonder when it was converted to be a 'Leica'? It's also in brass, as is the collapsible 50mm lens it came with.
I hope someone out there can confirm or comment on the camera! Cheers, David.
PS: I'll upload some pictures when I work out how!

[Ash]

sounds like you have a REAL project there then! Good luck!!

I like to tinker but I refuse to ruin a camera (again). My current project is restoring a Rolleiflex, so now that there's a new brighter focusing screen, I need to go to a watch repairer for a small screw, then order the replacement leatherette from tinkertools, buy or borrow some cutting tools to cut it to shape and apply the new leatherette.

All that is a helluva lot easier than your project! I'm not even keen on readjusting the rangefinder in my Fed-2 which is out at infinity and vertical alignment is off.

Keep us posted :)

[vickersdc]

I've uploaded my pictures to my member gallery - I just hope you all know how to view them! I've also just noticed another number under the shutter speed dial - which is 119715; any ideas? David.

[vickersdc]

Hey, hey! Look pictures... (I'm using this site just like a real pro now ;) ).

The middle picture shows the Zorki name under the housing and also the 'tombstone', but with an arrow - this suggests a later Zorki doesn't it? But the body is held on with 3 screws - which suggests an earlier Zorki doesn't it?
Maybe I'll just CLA it and see if it works :-)

[Jocko]

Hi David: I would ignore the serial number: I suspect that this is a 1951-3 Zorki (Princelle's 1c), perhaps a "parts camera", with the missing original components replaced by organs from dead FEDs. It probably became a Leica quite recently. A veritable Frankenzork, the Elsa Lanchester of fotoapparat!

Nurse the poor little mite back to life! (but paint her honest proletarian black!) :)

Cheers, Ian

[vickersdc]

Nurse the poor little mite back to life! (but paint her honest proletarian black!) :)

Cheers, Ian

Funny you should mention that as I keep changing my mind about whether I should paint it black or not! I would rather it was black personally but, and this may sound a bit silly - if I paint it black what about all the engravings? Thanks.

[Jocko]

Funny you should mention that as I keep changing my mind about whether I should paint it black or not! I would rather it was black personally but, and this may sound a bit silly - if I paint it black what about all the engravings? Thanks.

Not silly at all! The same concerns put me off a very similar project. I think most people would paint just the superstructure, rather than knobs and dials, although skillful painters can - and do - cover the lot and paint the engravings white. Something way beyond my trembling hands! To be honest, David, I just have a thing about these "gold" cameras - I really hate them:D !

I'm wearing a metaphorical sandwich-board, shouting "end this nudity now" :) !

Cheers, Ian

[vickersdc]

Thank heavens for that - I too really don't like the gold cameras, although this one does have a bit of a patina now. Anyway, you've given me the push that I need to make my mind up to paint it black... but won't it look odd with a brass lens and brass knobs? What if I then put a nickel lens on it? Then it'll look really odd.

But still better than gold ;-)

[Valkir1987]

I wonder what kind of material the main body is, is it the thick and sturdy one? Or the more softer thinner body? I agree with Jocko, I don't like gold finish either. (the fake Leicas with a gold/wood finish are even worse)
It's not nessesary to disamble the camera further, unless the camera must be cleaned or the shutter has to be repaired. You may wind the shutter and fire it, just watch and find out how the shutter works. :)

[Jocko]

Odd is good! We're all odd here!

As you dismantled the camera without dropping all the parts on the floor, gouging out an eye and bleeding profusely from every finger (my time-honoured practice) I'm sure you could paint the knobs too!

Actually, for the really odd but good, there was always the Voomp - black top-plate with chrome superstructure! Looked pretty smart!

All the best, Ian

[vickersdc]

I wonder what kind of material the main body is, is it the thick and sturdy one? Or the more softer thinner body?

The body is from an early Fed or Zorki - there are no raised edges and the film pressure plate is circular with a couple of small tabs behind it. It's certainly a 'bitsa' camera - I reckon I'll name it a Ferki.

Of course, I have to disassemble it further so that I can paint it all properly :rolleyes: . Cheers, David.

[reagan]

"...although skillful painters can - and do - cover the lot and paint the engravings white. Something way beyond my trembling hands!"
I haven't done it, but painting the engravings has been done by others here by painting w/ small brush over the engavings and then, while the paint is fresh/wet, using a small rubber(?) straight-edge pulled across the engraved areas to squeegy the "out-of-bounds" excess from the upper smooth surfaces leaving the white in the lower engraved surfaces. This way you don't have to be so meticulous in painting only "inside the lines," so to speak.

It's pretty clear to me this is how my black Zorki was done in FSU and it looks fine.

Mixed-matched parts are pretty common. IMO, the fact that one can do that and still get something working in pretty good shape is an upside to FSUs --- more available parts.

Looks like you've got a good project going there... Good luck! Keep us posted.

[w3rk5]

Hi Dave. Check out this thread. The Painting PDF file is located on the sixth post.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26417&highlight=painting+pdf
Also, check out this thread.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24058&highlight=painting+pdf
Good luck and have fun with it.

[vickersdc]

Thanks very much for the links - they are really useful. That FED-3 looks super-cool!. I'm still dismantling the top plate in readiness.

I have removed the shutter crate and now need to remove the shutter cocking knob from the top plate - are there any gotcha's when removing this knob and the relevant cogs and stuff underneath the top plate?

Just one more quick question - the little rewind lever that disengages the sprockets under the top plate is loose on my camera. Should there be some sort of spring or sprung washer to maintain a certain tension on this?

Once again, thanks for the assistance.

[Kim Coxon]

If you get stuck on the screws, I may be able to help.

Kim

Great idea - there's a guy who lives just down the road from me who used to repair watches and clocks (and he lives in the rather aptly named Tick Tock Cottage!).

[vickersdc]

If I paint it black it might end up looking like this though... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leica-Black-Classics_W0QQitemZ250027088988QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1 5234QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and I'm not sure I could be seen out with a camera looking like that. Perhaps I should get it nickel plated. Perhaps I could use it as a spares camera. Maybe it'll look okay with the patina it has? Why did I ever get involved in this?
Kim, thank you for your offer - I may take you up on it - I only need the one brass screw for the lens surround. Can you help? Thanks, David.

[Ash]

*awkward glance* I quite like the look of that copy!

[ZorkiKat]

The body is from an early Fed or Zorki - there are no raised edges and the film pressure plate is circular with a couple of small tabs behind it. It's certainly a 'bitsa' camera - I reckon I'll name it a Ferki.

Of course, I have to disassemble it further so that I can paint it all properly :rolleyes: . Cheers, David.

It's a mix of (working) parts from several cameras. The crate is definitely FED (note shutter button collar). The top plate was from a Zorki, but renamed Leica. :)

Jay

[vickersdc]

Well the strip down, rebuild and CLA continues apace for the Ferki. Well, to be precise the strip down, rebuild and CL went really well. The 'A' leaves something to be desired :bang:

So here's my sad story... I marked the top bits up on the shutter speed selector as it recommends on Jay's site. When I took the shutter crate off, I heard the tension being released in the curtains, which I guess is to be expected. However, it did mean that once I (eventually) got the shutter crate back on the position of the coupling pin was OK relative to the top plate but not to the curtain. Is that important? I found that when I wound the shutter up the folds where the first and second curtain are only made it half way across, then when I fired either...
1) nothing happened (too little tension?), or
2) the second curtain zipped back and then became 'ruffled up' (too much tension?).

If I were to start from scratch, how would I set about adjusting the curtains (making the assumption that I hadn't marked anything at all when I disassembled it)?

I knew this bit would be the undoing of this project! Hope you can help?! :cool:

Cheers, David.

PS: I have not dismantled the actual shutter crate as the curtains are in excellent condition.

[Kim Coxon]

Hi David,
Send me an address in a PM and I will see what I can do.

Kim

Kim, thank you for your offer - I may take you up on it - I only need the one brass screw for the lens surround. Can you help? Thanks, David.

[ZorkiKat]

.....If I were to start from scratch, how would I set about adjusting the curtains (making the assumption that I hadn't marked anything at all when I disassembled it)?

I knew this bit would be the undoing of this project! Hope you can help?! :cool:

Cheers, David.



David

It's really hard to describe the procedure without pictures :)

You have to make sure that the curtains are in proper place before attaching the crate back to the plate. The 1st blind should be reeled in a certain way, and its lath should overlap with the lath of the 2nd blind. The overlapped laths should be somewhere past the edge (about 2-4) from the left edge (adjacent to the shutter drum) of the film gate. Actual position may slightly differ based on actual blind or ribbon lengths.

Then make sure that the coupling hole on the drum is placed so that it will catch on the coupling pin. The pin's position is critical. If this is displaced even by 1mm, chances are you could lose "B", or have the shutter stop over the frame, or lose one edge of the frame from a shutter which closes too soon or too short.

The restricting gear has to properly positioned too. Make sure that it's at the end of its turn before you place the shutter drum. And be certain that the gear's is at its "end" which will allow the drum to turn the other way for the shutter to travel to the other side.

There is also a pulley over the drum. You will probably have noticed by now that this pulley turns freely over the drum. There is a curved slot in it which
the coupling pin goes through. There is also a stop there which allows the coupling pin to turn it . Make sure that this pulley is also properly positioned over the drum slot before the shutter crate is restored to the top plate.

It's really hard to get everything right at first attempt. You'll have to look into a lot of parts, checking their relative positions, before you put everything back.
Then once together, you'd have to check if they are all engaging properly. Any form of displacement, no matter haw minor, will often cause the shutter to malfunction.

Jay

[vickersdc]

Thanks for that Jay, I was up until nearly midnight last night trying different things out! I had a good look at everything to try and figure out how all the parts interacted and realised that what had happened was that I had not wound the shutter drum so that the curtain laths were on the right hand side (camera in normal shooting position). I moved the restrictor gear as far as possible and then set the shutter drum in position. This meant that I at least the curtains both had full travel across the film gate and were stopped as they should do when the upper pin contacts the cam.

However, after spending hours playing around with tensioning the curtains, I was no better off, although at least the curtains made it across the film gate! I'll carry again in light of your information and see how it goes. There must be a knack to this - surely the original builders didn't have to go through all this...did they?

Thanks, David.
PS: I spent hours checking out your website Jay, and realised that I had done it wrong - I'd marked the position of the upper coupling pin relative to the top plate and not the shaft :-(