Last news on the Leica M8 from my SOLMS reliable source (and great friend !)

[umana]

Hi to all by Luigi.

The M8 has been recently shown to some, few dealers and experts.
NONE of them was allowed to take pictures, due to severe forbidding
by Leica Co., but here the (probably right) camera details:

The M8 will be introduced at Photokina (Sept 26th):
10.5 Mio Pixel, sensor X1.33 factor, traditional M-rangefinder.
Camera body 2mm more "thick", so new bottom plate also,
which opens the bottom side of the camera for accu, SD-card,etc.,
lock only 90° and tripod-thread in the middle, chrome and black available.
No advance lever:
About the shutter I really do not know how it will work.
Monitor size as on Digilux2, no life-view (ok, the cameras "heart"
is the M-rangefinder, for which use a monitor for taking would be
ideologically same forbidden as an autofocus).
Camera bayonet flange has an integrated sensor to scan 6-bit
code on rearside of lens flange.
Actual lenses will be delivered with such a code, which gives
information to the camera, which lens type is used and to activate
a camera internal software setting specificly for this type of lens.
So the camera knows if you use a 2.8/28 or a 2.0/28 CURRENT models.
All former M-lenses which have the bayonet flange with the 6 holding screws
can be transformed. BUT, Leica officially says that all M-lenses can be used.
A new TRI-Elmar 16/18/21, which covers the full 24X36 circle and
can be used on any M3-M7 also, the first shorter than 21mm
focal length M-lens in history made by Leica.
On the M8 it will be 21/24/28mm.
Camera EUR 4.300, GERMAN 16% VAT INCLUDED
Lens with finder EUR 3.500 - GERMAN 16% VAT INCLUDED
The camera, although it is really an "M", does look a little different,
as for noo advance-lever and rewind.
The top plate is shaped "closed", so the first view remembers
more to a C1, C2, C3 compact, than to an M.

I hope that those details may be useful (and correct!).

Let me say a last thing: I STRONGLY suggested to Leica, and even
more to the Italian Official Leica distributor "Leica Brand Manager"
that was NECESSARY for Leica and for Leica enthusiasts to design
and to MAKE a fine Leica Digital M camera... since the year
1998/99 ! For years, I got this response: "It is NOT possible to
make it !" - Well... finally, after a couple of years, seem that the
idea was not so wrong.

Greetings to all, Luigi

[Flyfisher Tom]

Thanks Luigi, that was very kind of you to share :)

[visiondr]

Thank you Luigi.

But the most important question is, will your straps fit the new camera and will you design a case for it? :)

Ron

[Ted Witcher]

Yes... how will a half-case work with all the monitor and buttons, etc. on the back? I hope you are hard at work perfecting this...

[HansDerHase]

Yes... how will a half-case work with all the monitor and buttons, etc. on the back? I hope you are hard at work perfecting this...
You intend to chimp? :D

[Ted Witcher]

What does this expression "chimping," "to chimp," "chimper" mean? To work the controls, is that it?

[jlw]

What does this expression "chimping," "to chimp," "chimper" mean? To work the controls, is that it?

"Chimping" means using a digital camera's LCD monitor to review your take while you're in the process of shooting. In other words, it's a slang term for what the instruction manuals usually call "instant review."

The story I was told is that it is called "chimping" because of some photographers' habit of making chimpanzee-like noises as they alternately enthuse and despair over the photos they've just taken: "Oooh, oooh, oooh, ahhh, ahhh, ahhh!"

[Matthew]

What does this expression "chimping," "to chimp," "chimper" mean? To work the controls, is that it?

CHIMP verb As related to digital photography, to take a photo and immediately look at the rear LCD screen to see the photo you have just taken. Generally used in a pejorative manner, on the assumption that a good photographer knows what they've just photographed and are confident in their timing and exposure are correct.

[Matthew]

Camera EUR 4.300,-- -
Lens with finder EUR 3.500.


The big question for those of us in the U.S. is if these prices are inclusive of VAT. Any word on that?

[Ted Witcher]

I see. The perjorative part, which I read often on this forum, is something I don't quite understand. Instant review, to me, is a key advantage of digital -- why wouldn't one "chimp"? If it's not going to look quite as good as film, you should at least get something for your money! Seriously, film cams are film cams and dig cams are dig cams, to me; they are two different tools and I try to maximize the strengths of each one. I just don't see the point in being dogmatic.

[santino]

most details sound fine but I would miss the advance lever :(
couldn't they just make a "mechanical digital rf"? well, who knows, maybe the M8 is going to be a blas (I'm sure it will) :)

[sunsworth]

The reaon that Leica said that a digital M was not possible was because they were thinking in terms of a full frame sensor and the problems inherent with some of their lenses with such a beast - this is still an issue. Once they accepted the possibility of a cropped sensor things became much simpler.

[Matthew]

I see. The perjorative part, which I read often on this forum, is something I don't quite understand. Instant review, to me, is a key advantage of digital -- why wouldn't one "chimp"? If it's not going to look quite as good as film, you should at least get something for your money! Seriously, film cams are film cams and dig cams are dig cams, to me; they are two different tools and I try to maximize the strengths of each one. I just don't see the point in being dogmatic.

For me constantly looking at the LCD after shooting just slows me down and takes me out of the moment. If I'm not certain of the lighting conditions I'll check the screen after the first image, but from there on out I shoot as I would if I couldn't review the images. That's just my working method though; if always reviewing shots works for you, more power to you.

It is sort of funny to watch though at a touristy place with tons of people photographing--quite reminiscent of monkeys playing with a new toy, which is what I always assumed was the phrase origin.

[JohanV]

I have always believed that the term "Chimping " originated from the way a photographer looks when he is hunched forward looking at his little screen, body bent forward to block the sun to make it possible to see the pic.

[Matthew]

I have always believed that the term "Chimping " originated from the way a photographer looks when he is hunched forward looking at his little screen, body bent forward to block the sun to make it possible to see the pic.

Exactly. Hilarious en masse.

[Mark Norton]

Thanks forvthe information Luigi but as always prices cause confusion. It's not clear whether the prices you quote include VAT. That varies across Europe (16% in Germany - for now, 17.5% in the UK, 19% in France) so we don't really know. That €3500 sounds as though VAT is included and would make it the most expensive M-lens.

[sdai]

The new Tri-Elmar useable on full-frame would be a killer lens, I'm gonna get one for my MP!

[Nemo]

Top plate "closed"? Flat? :eek:
That is like a M5, but even worse.

I don't want experiments when I go to pay 4300 euros.
The top plate has a step for a good reason: the shutter button and the shutter speed wheel must to equalize the height of the camera. A flat plate means sunk buttons, little displays... We will have a thicker AND taller camera with hidden top buttons for a flat roof... this is a monster brick.

That is NOT a Leica M. That is a C1/2/3 or CM Digital, in which I am not interested in...

I will not pay 4300 euros for that thing. Quite simple.

Very bad (and sad) news for me. :( :bang:

.

[Erl]

I still view it all as conjecture and speculation. Whilst I am impatient, I will wait for the final release to view and then pass judment on the 'reality' rather than anything else.

Thankfully, in a couple of weeks I will be travelling and have my mind taken off it, I hope.:D

[amateriat]

I see. The perjorative part, which I read often on this forum, is something I don't quite understand. Instant review, to me, is a key advantage of digital -- why wouldn't one "chimp"? If it's not going to look quite as good as film, you should at least get something for your money! Seriously, film cams are film cams and dig cams are dig cams, to me; they are two different tools and I try to maximize the strengths of each one. I just don't see the point in being dogmatic. For one thing, all that on-the-fly "chimping" would disrupt the "flow" I experience when in the midst of photographing. Even when I was shooting with SLRs, I had a good idea of whether a given shot was a keeper or a stinker, or somewhere in-between. With rangrfinders, I get an even better sense of what's actually on-film. When I've shot with a digital camera, there would always be time to take stock of my "take" en masse afterward; the nature of most of my photography being transitory, I rarely if ever get a second chance at a muffed shot, so chimping makes little sense for me in general.

Secondly, that little screen only tells you so much; i'm often rather surprised when I open an image in PS on the 22" monitor and see things that just didn't seem all that clear on that little camera screen. Sometimes the "surprise" is pleasing, other times not. Yet another reason for not editing from the camera. To twist a Joni Mitchell lyric, you won't know just what you've got till you're home.


- Barrett

[jlw]

I see. The perjorative part, which I read often on this forum, is something I don't quite understand.

I don't think anybody objects to making intelligent use of the LCD. The pejorative part comes in when somebody gets so wrapped up in reviewing the pictures he has taken that he misses a good picture happening right in front of him!

[greggebhardt]

Checking the LCD on occasion is a GREAT advantage. It has been a life saver for me on more than one occasion on my D2Xs. Looking at every image as you take it is not required. It does not need to disrupt the "flow". After looking at the first few images, you can ignor the LCD.

I am beginning to wonder of "some" Leica users will be able to adapt to the M8. Some of these digital features can be ignored but I guess some can not. Maybe the R8 is not for everyone.

[Mark Norton]

The LCD monitor on the M8 will be extremely useful in telling you whether you've left the lens cap on...

[Sparrow]

I have always believed that the term "Chimping " originated from the way a photographer looks when he is hunched forward looking at his little screen, body bent forward to block the sun to make it possible to see the pic.
I always assumed it was a reference to the infinite chimpanzees and typewriters eventually writing King Lear, ya learn something every day!!

[blakley]

When I used the DMR for a day, what I found most useful about the LCD was the ability to check the histogram to verify correct exposure. I didn't really look at the picture at all.

[JohnL]

The LCD monitor on the M8 will be extremely useful in telling you whether you've left the lens cap on...
I used to leave the cap on regularly with manual RFs, but never (so far) with the M7, because the meter doesn't work with it on. I guess this will also be the case with the M8, although I don't think I'll be able to justify buying one for a long, long time.

[Jon Perry]

The LCD monitor on the M8 will be extremely useful in telling you whether you've left the lens cap on...

Worth the price (what ever it will be) for that alone! :D

[Gabriel M.A.]

I always assumed it was a reference to the infinite chimpanzees and typewriters eventually writing King Lear, ya learn something every day!!
Me too! I thought it was something akin to "winging it". I tells ya, we ain't don't making no sense no more. ;)

[Bob Ross]

The LCD monitor on the M8 will be extremely useful in telling you whether you've left the lens cap on...
....and when you do, just check for hot pixels, before you delete....:cool:

[Mark Norton]

ALL my pixels are hot, hot, HOT, Bob! :D

[John Shriver]

Yes, the one I saw had a flat top plate. One of the reasons I was a little suspiscious of the recent photograph.

It's not going to break anyone's itty fingers to go up another 1/8 inch. Also, I'd presume that one of the settings on the control concentric with the shutter button was "OFF". No idea what the other three positions were, I didn't get to read it.

Luigi will have an interesting challenge making a case. The LCD bulge comes up rather high, so there's no place to connect the leather across the top of it without blocking the eyepeice. I suppose a clear flexible window could be inserted in the back, but that wouldn't be up to Luigi's standards of craftsmanship and durability. Only other way I could think of would be to embed a steel shank in the leather across the bottom and up each side. (I have a lovely Luigi case for my Canon 7s, bought second-hand here.)

[John Camp]

Chimping is done by virtually everyone who uses digital; if you go to a professional tennis or golf match, you'll see the pros constantly chimping, although they've now been made so sensitive to it, they usually don't make the chimp sounds any more ("OO ooo, ah ah, oo oo.") A histogram will tell you instantly where your exposure was; and, in addition, most cameras have an over-exposure function, which flashes washed-out highlights, and that's also pretty useful, especially around water; it'll also tell you whether you over-exposed a slice of face, or how washed out the background sky will be. One of the reasons I am so interested in the M8 is because I can get rangefinder action with some of the conveniences of my D2x. I don't really give a **** if I look or sound like a chimp, or if I'm judged to be less than pure, if the photo's exposure is right on.

One of the things that's going to happen here, where most people are film users, is that new M8 users are going to be convinced that their camera is busted or out of adjustment, because they won't be used to digital. For example, there is a general feeling with a camera like the D2x that you cannot hand-hold at shutter speeds as slow as you can, say with an F5. Something to do with the size of the pixels vs. grain on film; I don't quite understand it, but have experienced the problem. I think. There's an interesting learning curve coming for some people, and it's going to be frustrating. My personal biggest hope (and concern) right now is that Adobe adapt Lightroom for the Leica shots as quickly as possible. ..

JC

[rsh]

The M5 was a technological tour de force in its day. The meter was accurate, the camera felt good in the hand, handled well and it was a workhorse. It was rejected for its looks, not its ability, though personally, I feel it is the best looking of all the Ms.

If some of you reject the M8 for its looks, then you are missing the point. It will be a tool on which you can use your M lenses and take digital photographs. It will not be a perfect tool, but it will be a good tool. Remember, the camerea does not take the photo, you do. It is the lens that delivers your vision.