View Full Version : The M8
RFF Has has found M8 photos. Are these real or fake? I have asked around and some say its close others say it is what they know to be.
I can confirm that there is internal email at Leica with the subject of FYI - M8 Photos online and links to RFF. Could this be a sign that these could be real?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/image_dir/rff_uploads/m8-front.jpg
for chrissakes, man! hurrrry UP! ;) :)
Looking forward to it!
>
Flyfisher Tom
08-25-2006, 15:54
you go Jorge !
thanks :)
Chris Lynch
08-25-2006, 15:57
ughhhhhhhhhhhh i wanna see/know the deets!
We are re editing the picture. We will be back!
Chris Lynch
08-25-2006, 16:07
yesssssss looks nice
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 16:11
Finally a photo of it!
Where did you get it from Jorge?
zanydave
08-25-2006, 16:14
Where is the picture?
click on the thumbnail inthe first post of this thread.
Mackinaw
08-25-2006, 16:17
Wish you hadn't shown me this picture, now I want to buy one.
Jim Bielecki
zanydave
08-25-2006, 16:19
Jorge, i got no thumbnail on you attachment. Where am i going wrong?
Beautiful, I have to say!
Thanks Jorge! You rule ;-)
Marc-A.
Harry Lime
08-25-2006, 16:21
Nice. Glad it's here, now Leica will stay in business.
I hope they sell a boat load of these.
Looks great, but does it look a little odd without the advance lever?
;-)
omg that thing looks good.. I guess we´re one of the first in public that see this! thanks Jorge!
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 16:22
Nice. Glad it's here, now Leica will stay in business.
I hope they sell a boat load of these.
Looks great, but does it look a little odd without the advance lever?
;-)
I am SO thrilled it doesn't have a tacky faux advance lever! :)
It looks really good!
As far as I know these are THE FIRST actual photos of the M8 posted in a public forum. Quite a scoop there Jorge - well done!!
the blue dot scares me. :D
Mackinaw
08-25-2006, 16:26
Trying to read through some of the text, does it sound like we're also getting the rumored, new more-wide-angle Tri-Elmar?
Jim Bielecki
...Looks great, but does it look a little odd without the advance lever?
;-)
Don't go there. Remember what happened to the M5?
It does look very Leicaesque.
Daniel Unkefer
08-25-2006, 16:29
Looks Tasty! Want one
erikhaugsby
08-25-2006, 16:33
What is that akward-looking blue dot near the top of the red Leica dot?
add.: And I'd love to see what is on the other 6 pages of the report...:D
might be white balance...which are usually white, so i dunno.
Harry Lime
08-25-2006, 16:35
Anyone want to guess what the little blue lens (dot) above the red dot does? Flashmeter? Color temperature sensor? Part of the exposure meter?
Very, very cool.
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 16:35
Zanydave, instead of downloading the photo from here and posting it over on the Leica User Forum you could have just provided the link to this thread instead....
Harry Lime
08-25-2006, 16:36
Don't go there. Remember what happened to the M5?
It does look very Leicaesque.
;)
Cheers,
HL
erikhaugsby
08-25-2006, 16:36
In order to achieve a silent advance of the shutter, a rubberized silencing friction wheel was placed in the first gear step.
I do hope that the rubber on the wheel won't strip easily and render the shutter useless...that might become one costly replacement part.
The blue dot is for the Cosina/ Zeiss collaboration. :D
John Robertson
08-25-2006, 16:48
Sorry still no sale here!
Harry Lime
08-25-2006, 16:50
Thanks Jorge! If you need bail money for those industrial espionage charges , give us a heads up and we'll take up a collection.
:D
rogue_designer
08-25-2006, 16:53
Now they just need to make a 28 1.4, and a 40 1.0 and 1.4 so I can have my 35-50 low light kit back. :D
Man I need to win the lotto.
Where will I put my thumb? :D
Looks gorgeous. Camera reliability & company survivability are the open questions. Along with affordability, of course.
zanydave
08-25-2006, 16:55
Rich, Your treating this as tho it's some sort of espionage. Stay cool, no harm was intended. It's something we are all excited about.
Dave
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 16:57
Rich, Your treating this as tho it's some sort of espionage. Stay cool, no harm was intended. It's something we are all excited about.
Dave
Nah, I just thought it was pretty low form of you to download the photo and post it on another site a) without any credit to RFF and b) especially since Jorge had said here that it was only available to registered RFF members.
Just my thoughts.
humanized_form
08-25-2006, 17:00
OH YES! that is so beautiful.
zanydave
08-25-2006, 17:04
Rich, as i said i'm not going to be dragged into it. Get a life. It's only a camera.
the back looks kind of cramped on the right side where the arrow buttons are. that's where my palm would rest.
dave, just say "sorry, i should have credited jorge" and be done with it. unless you already have.
What is that akward-looking blue dot near the top of the red Leica dot?
add.: And I'd love to see what is on the other 6 pages of the report...:D
It probably is white balance and I imagine it is less blue in reality (at least in most lighting conditions) than in the product illustration.
Overall it looks great! I was excited before seeing the photos and now I'm even more so. And we're getting an alternative to the 28 Summicron, as well as a wide Tr-Elmar.
Not that I expect anyone to answer, but I wonder who violated their NDA in letting this document see the public light of day.
rogue_designer
08-25-2006, 17:27
I thought perhaps the blue dot was a subliminal mind control emitter...
"you will want one... you will take out another mortgage... you will go to debtors prison, but you will take beautiful pictures of it..."
:D
It could also be an emitter/sensor, like for a wireless remote, or flash unit. But I have been very very wrong before.
If anyone downloaded the previous image and is showing it somewhere, please replace it with the one I just posted. I ask this as a favor from the members.
Very nice - clean looking. I'm impressed.
On a semi-related note, one of my kidneys is now for sale in the classifieds.
telenous
08-25-2006, 17:45
This is one beautiful camera. Well done Leica and well done Jorge for this first!
Looks like a cross between M5 and R9:eek:
;)
Ciao
Joerg
B_Algood
08-25-2006, 17:48
Thanks Jorge, looks real Nice, I'll have to start saving more $$$ for this...
John Camp
08-25-2006, 17:50
Terrific-looking camera. Very clean. Of course, Jorge's spy is now being led into a dank little dungeon in Solms...
Is the screen recessed? It's hard to tell, but it appears to be, because the selector switch seems to sit out from it.
Is there any text with it?
JC
the blue dot scares me. :D
We are Zeiss. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 17:56
Looks great...still so many questions...
humanized_form
08-25-2006, 17:56
when i first looked at this thread there were some specs/details accompanying the picture, but now i can't find them, are the specs still available somewhere on the site?
Parkes Owen
08-25-2006, 18:00
finally, a REAL digital camera!!! looks awsome, I reeeeeaally need (want) this thing :D
Ted Witcher
08-25-2006, 18:00
Great. Nose-grease on the damn screen on yet another camera.
humanized_form
08-25-2006, 18:10
i think the buttons on the left say "play" , "delete", i can't quite read the third one and "set." the button on the right is "menu" i think. the slot on the left is maybe for the SD card?
i was kinda hoping for exposure compensation around the shutter dial, but it looks like that stuff is probably menu driven. hopefully it's a good interface.
That is great! Can't wait to see more :)
Could anyone repeat those specifications here?
Chris Lynch
08-25-2006, 18:20
yeah, one of the biggest ?'s i have is battery life...
Maybe it's just JPEG compression, but doesn't the perspective of the M8 nameplate look a little "off"? And the lens-release button on the front view, and the knurling around the edge of the four-way controller on the back view, appear to be lit from the bottom, which is a bit unusual (unless they photographed the camera on a backlit copystand or on top of a glass display case.)
I'm not questioning the veracity of Jorge's source, just noting that we're still seeing a pretty darn compressed photo here.
Anyone want to make a guess as to the purpose of the little blue dot seen above and to the left of the Leica "red dot" in the front view? It looks a bit retouched, but again, that could just be JPEG compression. I'm thinking maybe white-balance sensor...?
Wha? No engravings on the top plate?
J|W: The lens release is lit from the bottom. The focus tab is also lit from the bottom. Looks legit to me
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 18:30
I was surprised to see a chrome M8 in the first photo. I had read somewhere that only black bodies were going to be released initially. Did anyone else read the same or did I have some day-dreaming experience again?
i think the buttons on the left say "play" , "delete", i can't quite read the third one and "set." the button on the right is "menu" i think. the slot on the left is maybe for the SD card?
The upper-right button says "MENU," the top two left buttons say "PLAY" and "DELETE", and the bottom two say "INFO" and "SET." I can't read the middle one. It looks as if it says "TROUBLE", but let's hope not!
Rich Silfver
08-25-2006, 18:32
Wha? No engravings on the top plate?
That will be through the M8 A la carte program :)
the back looks kind of cramped on the right side where the arrow buttons are. that's where my palm would rest.
Right.
Would anyone send to me the original photos of the chrome version? (just to see).
Specifications, please?
What is that akward-looking blue dot near the top of the red Leica dot? ...:D It's probably autofocus... :eek:
J|W: The lens release is lit from the bottom. The focus tab is also lit from the bottom. Looks legit to me
Yeah, okay, makes sense. I should have known -- I do a lot of product photography at work, and the quickest way to do it is on a vertical copy stand, the kind with a frosted glass base plate. Turn on the light under the base plate and you automatically eliminate any awkward shadows, saving the production artist from having to spend time drawing a "clipping path" around the image to silhouette it. That's probably what they did here. I'm sure the final official-release photos will be much more beautifully lit.
The more I think about it, the more I think the little blue dot has to be an auto-white-balance sensor. SLRs can read white balance through the finder (although some Nikon DSLR models also have an extra ambient sensor for it) but an RF camera would need a separate sensor. Without a sensor, you'd have to read white-balance data at the moment of exposure -- presumably what the R-D 1 does. There have been some complaints about the R-D 1's auto-white-balance performance, so it would make sense for Leica to provide an extra sensor to assure better performance.
Many thanks to Jorge for tracking down these interesting images. Of course, who better to get the first look at the M8 than us RFFers?... after all, this is the international community for rangefinder camera enthusiasts/geeks. If Leica is really smart, they'll follow up by sending Jorge a review unit!
I took the original photo an d blew it up 200% thus it may look a little jagged.
humanized_form
08-25-2006, 18:41
The upper-right button says "MENU," the top two left buttons say "PLAY" and "DELETE", and the bottom two say "INFO" and "SET." I can't read the middle one. It looks as if it says "TROUBLE", but let's hope not!
thanks! i think i'm reading the third button as "protect"? that could make sense.
Gabriel M.A.
08-25-2006, 18:44
Prutty. Me want. Money have not :(
Red dot? I hope they sell w/option to have w/o.
It would be possible, Jorge, to see the chrome version of the camera?
amateriat
08-25-2006, 18:50
To quote Ricky Nelson, that M8 is playin' guitar like ringing a bell, and lookin' like it should. I'm not buying one, but I'll smile if Leica has trouble keeping up with demand for a while (which reminds me: anybody know what Solms' initial production run is supposed to be? Any bet on whether they'll sell out?).
Oh, and that "missing" advance lever? As a heavy Hexar RF user, all I can say in reply is: what missing advance lever? ;)
- Barrett
Is it just me, or do those images look like it's been rendered using Photoshop?
The light reflection on the back looks somewhat artificial. I don't want to put a damper to the excitement but...
I see a little problem with proportions and ergonomics in these pictures.
rogue_designer
08-25-2006, 18:52
Red dot? I hope they sell w/option to have w/o.
Electrical tape. Solves most problems. :D
I'm going to get one, eventually.
John Camp
08-25-2006, 18:58
The more I look at it, the more questions I have (although I'm not questioning the veracity of the photos.) Why would you not have an info LCD on top? On my Nikon, it's really the most valuable one for shooting -- tells you how many shots you have left, how much compensation you've got dialed in, the battery state, and a bunch of other stuff, very neatly and compactly; and you can backlight it if it's dark. It also has a very useful set of dials that rotate under your thumbs that allow you to change many settings without going to menus...
I hope Leica didn't short-change the M8's functionality in an effort to keep it "clean." I also wonder about that knurled dial around the multi-selector. I suppose it could be used to dial-in new settings and select them with a thumb, without taking your eye away from the finder,, but it's an unusual way to do it.
These ARE 100% certified, no-b.s. photos, right? They're not mock-ups or planning documents or something like that...
JC
The more I look at it, the more questions I have (although I'm not questioning the veracity of the photos.) Why would you not have an info LCD on top?
Yeah, but a Leica is already pretty densely packed under the top cover. To have room for a Nikon-size LCD, they'd have had to make it taller, and I can see a lot of resistance to that.
On my Nikon, it's really the most valuable one for shooting -- tells you how many shots you have left, how much compensation you've got dialed in, the battery state, and a bunch of other stuff
I agree that when using a Nikon DSLR, the top LCD is by far the one I use the most when shooting. But that's partly because Nikon DSLRs have all-electronic controls. You need an LCD to see what shutter speed and aperture you've set; on a Leica you'll be able to see that by looking at mechanical dials, and possibly exposure compensation as well. I wouldn't mind having white-balance and quality-level info relegated to a back-panel display.
The one remaining piece of info I'd really want to see on the top of the camera would be number of remaining shots. But this could be squeezed onto a tiny LCD that might just not be visible in the photos.
I hope Leica didn't short-change the M8's functionality in an effort to keep it "clean." I also wonder about that knurled dial around the multi-selector. I suppose it could be used to dial-in new settings and select them with a thumb, without taking your eye away from the finder, but it's an unusual way to do it.
Interesting thought. It wouldn't be much different from the "command dial" on the back of a Canon DSLR, only with buttons in the middle. If well implemented, I can imagine it being a pretty slick, quick way to enter menu-driven settings.
Ted Witcher
08-25-2006, 19:15
To quote Ricky Nelson, that M8 is playin' guitar like ringing a bell, and lookin' like it should. I'm not buying one, but I'll smile if Leica has trouble keeping up with demand for a while (which reminds me: anybody know what Solms' initial production run is supposed to be? Any bet on whether they'll sell out?).
Oh, and that "missing" advance lever? As a heavy Hexar RF user, all I can say in reply is: what missing advance lever? ;)
- Barrett
I think you're quoting Chuck Berry there.
And I remember reading the initial run was 10,000 units... but I may be wrong there, or plans may have changed.
humanized_form
08-25-2006, 19:19
i'm curious about the info that will be displayed in the viewfinder, without a top LCD they may try to cram more info in the finder display.
the way the shutter speed is displayed in the M7 viewfinder is great, but the M8 finder could get crowded if it also has ISO, file quality, WB setting, etc.
amateriat
08-25-2006, 19:31
I think you're quoting Chuck Berry there.
And I remember reading the initial run was 10,000 units... but I may be wrong there, or plans may have changed. I was quoting Ricky quoting Chuck ("Garden Party") :)
This is going to be an interesting next few months. Never mind about potentially-dropping used Leica body prices (not a whole lot, IMO); what's this going to do for used lens prices?
- Barrett
Harry Lime
08-25-2006, 19:34
Looks great...still so many questions...
Flash goes in the hot shoe on the top of the camera, as it always has.
The button on the far right says 'menu'
I bet the flap/square cover on the back of the camera, below and to the left of the eye piece is for an USB or Firewire port. From what I have heard the battery and SD card are inserted in to the bottom of the camera. I think I see some sort of release button on the edge of the baseplate. I wonder if it comes off, revealing the battery and SD slot. So, it looks like you still get to hold the baseplate between your teeth while you 'reload'. :)
Ted Witcher
08-25-2006, 19:34
Gotcha.
I would think lens prices will stay relatively flat. Bodies, though -- M6-era -- might go down. Doesn't that make sense?
humanized_form
08-25-2006, 19:40
yep. i have been buying some old school lower contrast lenses (rigid summicron, canon stuff, etc), ala the Sean Reid theory, for use on the M8 before the prices may rise. this is to complement the modern high contrast lenses.
oh yeah, the blue dot must be the extra metering cell. those are blue. that way it'll be able to calculate aperture for exif.
jlw called it.
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=312435&postcount=47
Chris Lynch
08-25-2006, 19:53
haha M8 A La Carte = $10,000
Mark Norton
08-25-2006, 21:48
I think this is a fake, a Photoshop special.
It is there to illuminate the bigger red dot...
What is that akward-looking blue dot near the top of the red Leica dot?
add.: And I'd love to see what is on the other 6 pages of the report...:D
Post deleted by posters request
The blue dot could set white balance and calculate the F # of the lens for EXIF metadata. That would be great because the F# data could be of use for the lens coding in camera processing.
I'm also happy to see the absense of a 2nd LCD screen. The viewfinder could display the vital info (shutter speed, F#, ISO, compensation) leaving the main LCD for color balance, RAW/JPEG, battery, etc.
I hope this photo is real.
Rex
Gorgeous camera. Well done Jorge!
:)
IGMeanwell
08-25-2006, 22:42
The blue dot could set white balance and calculate the F # of the lens for EXIF metadata. That would be great because the F# data could be of use for the lens coding in camera processing.
I'm also happy to see the absense of a 2nd LCD screen. The viewfinder could display the vital info (shutter speed, F#, ISO, compensation) leaving the main LCD for color balance, RAW/JPEG, battery, etc.
I hope this photo is real.
Rex
IF this has AF ... I would say its an AF assist light but obviously thats not the case
lol. looked at the pic again, still don't like the blue dot. if this was a digital hexar rf, it would have been where the self-timer indicator light is.
I see many similarities between these shots and the layout of the DMR. So:
- The middle button on the left of the LCD probably says 'protect'
- The lower button on the right of the LCD could be the ON/OFF switch
- Does the knurled ring around the arrow buttons on the DMR have a function? It probably has te same function on the M8.
Other observation:
- To me it seems there is some kind of button/switch in the collar of the shutter release: AE lock? Shutter speed compensation? ON/OFF switch with the lower button on the right of the display being the AE lock?
This is exiting!
Wim
Mark Norton
08-26-2006, 01:32
Before I go to bed, just did a quick and dirty P/S of what I hope to see on the back and top of the M8...
Just for fun...:)
Pulled various images and patched them together.
To me, it would be logical that the M8 share certain ergonomic and interface features from the DMR back as well as the shutter speed dial from the R9. I've added height of about a Leicavit / Motor-M to allow a secondary LCD screen. The top plate too has LCD but I couldn't decide where to put it. In practical terms, I don't think there's enough clearance above the VF mechanism to allow LCD electronics without adding a couple more millimeters on top. So probably will see something next to the shutter dial...
I quite like the LCD where you have put it but agree space there is tight. As regards the back, I hope the display doesn't bulge out like that - as it does on the DMR because it will press into your cheekbone when you look through the viewfinder.
Mark Norton
08-26-2006, 01:36
I see many similarities between these shots and the layout of the DMR.
That's probably because this photoshop fake has been built from pictures of the DMR...
To me it seems there is some kind of button/switch in the collar of the shutter release
Would make sense for it to be the power switch, as it is on the M7...
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 01:42
You all got zombie right? :D for me it looks unfinished, as a designer I have to say that I don`t like it, plus tha flat pictures its gona take and the stupid crop factor, plus the price tag, guys relax!
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 01:45
Controling arrows are placed at awfull place, I think this is big fake one or panasonic designed it :D
Rich Silfver
08-26-2006, 03:04
Jorge, where did you get the photos from?
Bob Parsons
08-26-2006, 03:36
I see many similarities between these shots and the layout of the DMR. So:
- The middle button on the left of the LCD probably says 'protect'
- The lower button on the right of the LCD could be the ON/OFF switch
- Does the knurled ring around the arrow buttons on the DMR have a function? It probably has te same function on the M8.
Other observation:
- To me it seems there is some kind of button/switch in the collar of the shutter release: AE lock? Shutter speed compensation? ON/OFF switch with the lower button on the right of the display being the AE lock?
This is exiting!
Wim
With a bit of Photoshop Surface Blur and advanced (mental) image processing :D
Also use CS2's shadow recovery.
Play .......................... Menu
Delete
Protect
Info
Set ........................... ?????
Bob.
Travis L.
08-26-2006, 03:46
Fake.......
Post deleted by posters request
Looks nasty, I prefer my R-D1...
/my bank manager told me to say that ;)
Post deleted by posters request
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 04:37
It is super fake I might add :)
the blue dot scares me. :D
No need to be scared, Ghost <g>.
I believe it's for the white balance.
Ergonomically, it looks 'broken' without the wind lever. I wonder how easy/difficult it will be to actually work with. I always rely on the wind lever to balance my thumb for steading the camera.
I have an Abrahamson rapid wind lever on my M7, but still pop the manual winer out for balance. Whilst retaining the classic 'M' look, I think it appears the ergonomices may be a little difficult for extended use.
Hope I'm wrong, because I will have one anyway.:confused:
Cheers,
Erl
Mark Norton
08-26-2006, 05:00
A waste of everyone's time. Of course the camera is going to look something like this but I expect Leica binned this "design study" 2 years ago. The devil is in the detail and this blury mess doesn't have it.
The original product announcement memo - 28 f2.8, Tri-Elmar, Universal Finder, added credibility but Jorge and his pals have lost all theirs.
Post deleted by posters request
Post deleted by posters request
Where will I put my thumb? :D
Yes, that's important. They could have taken some ergonomic syling points from Panansonic and included a little "hump" on the back for your thumb.
Jury is still out until I hold one.
Yes, that's important. They could have taken some ergonomic syling points from Panansonic and included a little "hump" on the back for your thumb.
Jury is still out until I hold one.
I will sell a kneadable clay that you can stick to the back of the M8 for this purpose. I'll call it the "Slay".
For all those who think this is a fake image: Jorge has stated that he himself took the photographs of this camera. I've got to believe him.
John Shriver
08-26-2006, 05:58
Doesn't look exactly like the one I saw in the flesh. I don't remember seeing any "compass rose" button on the lower right rear. I also think the top was flat (no step), and the control around the shutter button was chrome. There was no red dot on the one I saw, either. So this may indeed be a careful fake.
I didn't get much of a chance to really look at the camera, it was in someone else's hands, and he couldn't talk about it...
I can't imagine that the review units would be different from the production units.
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 06:06
FrankS : Did he paint those fake shadows too? :D :D
John,
The photos don't seem to show either a rewind knob or a film advance lever. Were those absent from the M8 you saw?
Post deleted by posters request
Ouch, Magus!
It'll be interesting to see what happens on this. Maybe Jorge can respond to this question.
Perhaps Jorge has better search engine chops than I do, because other than this site and the Leica users forum (which got the image from here) I can't seem to find these images "floating around the internet" anywhere.
Some of this doubt as to authenticity could be solved by posting a link to the site where they can from in the first place.
Looks good to me - especially if they keep it in the traditional Leica Rangefinder style otherwise it could be a damp squid!!
Can't afford the Mk 1, so will have to wait for the next variant then hopefully get a Mk 1 "cheap???".
In the meantime I will stick with my M6TTL and Konica Hexar RF - Don't know about the rest, but I have heard that Leica UK are charging over £60.00 to convert existing lenses for M8 use!!!!
...so Leica is the culprit...
:angel:
In regards to how this image got out and who might have leaked it: It is possible that different versions of the same pdf from which this originally came were circulated (it's too bad the whole page image isn't up anymore...), each with slightly different information. That way if and when information gets out it can be more accurately tracked. I know Apple is in the habit of giving different code names to the same project when in the development stage for just that reason. Don't know if Leica is that tight-lipped.
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 07:46
What the heck is this then? :) normaly they don`t put logos like this :)
Look at the color jpg artefacts around the logo, this is funny :)
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/m8.jpg
Maybe it's the true M8 maybe not. If it's not, Jorge will owe us some explanations, and maybe an apology. If it is, the sceptics would have made fools of them!
But here's a thought: the sceptics say "no way it can't be it 'cause (1) it's not the dreamy M8 we're expecting (2) nobody outside Leitz can have any preview picture before it's officially released".
On the first point, I think the sceptics expect too much of the new Leica! It's only a camera, remember, not a magical tool coming outta fairy tale.
On the second point, Leitz is not MacDouglas, and neither the Pentagon nor the CIA ... and even with the Pentagon and the CIA, there are a lot of leaks! It's only a camera, remember, not the top secret atomic weapon.
So I think there's no reason to be sarcastic before the M8 is official released.
Best,
Marc
Bob Ross
08-26-2006, 08:04
Yes, of course we can, but that's not the point.
I'm sure all the major industry publications (print and online) already have complete press kits with beautifully detailed photos of the actual camera -- but those will be embargoed until the official release date around Photokina-time. And those publications will hold to that date, too -- if they weren't trustworthy, they wouldn't have gotten the press kit in the first place.
So that leaves the intriguing question of exactly what it IS that we're looking at: someone's do-it-yourself fake, or an "unofficial" official leak.
A similar thing happed to Nikon, a publication designer's draft version of an announcement got out. Judging from the original picture/screen shot, that is what this looks like. The original was a zoomed in look at a PDF and the pictures were very small & compressed on the PDF page. Artifacts that we see in the screen capture seem to be compression problems from resizing. When I fooled with it there were some other artifacts around the red dot on the black body, otherwise it just looked like a photo mangled by the route it took to get to us. That said, Leica may have given the publication designers some prototype pictures to use in desgn and they would be replaced by regular product images nearer publication date. The other data in the original about a 28mm f/2.8 Asph and the wide tri-elmar and its viewfinder did look authentic. That Jorge asked that the original screen capture version be deleted, sounds like he is protecting his source and rightfully so.
Bob
What the heck is this then? :) normaly they don`t put logos like this :)
Look at the color jpg artefacts around the logo, this is funny :)
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/m8.jpg
What's wrong with the logo? So it's a preproduction-model. Not like they're ALL perfect.
And what's funny about the artefacts? That's what you get when you first make an image, then make a .pdf out of it (a jpg-compressed one, no less), extract it from that, take it through photoshop once more, and save it again so it fits in your forum. And then someone takes the pic and upsizes it some hundred percent. So yeah, I'd be more suspicious if it were perfect.
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 08:07
skarpia : Possibly maybe, actualy :) sorry :)
Lol BOB, we were typing that furiously at the same time... And yeah, Nikon did spill the beans on the D2X, the pdf got out from a swiss(? iirc) print-house. It didn't even contain all the text, just the layout, pics and techspecs.
And that was not planned, let me tell you that. Nikon tould us that people got fired, in several places.
Frank,
I never took the picturs. If I did they would be B&W :)
Mackinaw
08-26-2006, 08:32
I find it amazing that this M8 topic has generated over 6,700 hits in less than 24 hours.
skarpia : Possibly maybe, actualy :) sorry :)
Oh, just for the record, I'm having a terribly hard time accepting these as real... Somehow the back just looks wrong. I don't know. I'm actually hoping that the control wheel gets placed somewhere else. That just doesn't look ergonomic somehow. IDK.
Doesn't look exactly like the one I saw in the flesh. I don't remember seeing any "compass rose" button on the lower right rear. I also think the top was flat (no step), and the control around the shutter button was chrome. There was no red dot on the one I saw, either. So this may indeed be a careful fake.
I didn't get much of a chance to really look at the camera, it was in someone else's hands, and he couldn't talk about it...
I can't imagine that the review units would be different from the production units.
i hope you're right!
Frank,
I never took the picturs. If I did they would be B&W :)
My sincere apologies then Jorge for remembering incorrectly.:bang:
The picture just doesn't look right to me. Seems like the lens and the shadows had been added afterwards to the image.
John Camp
08-26-2006, 09:23
When I first saw the picture I was elated, because the camera was so clean, which was what I'd been hoping for (I've pre-ordered.)
Now, I'm coming around to think that these shots are concept shots, or models used for planning ad layouts, or something similar.
I come to that conclusion because I'm sitting here looking at an M7 and an R-D1. Neither one -- not even the M7 -- is as "clean" as the supposed M8. And the R-D1, which was widely greeted as a really interesting design -- clean, functional -- is quite a bit more complicated-looking than the M8 photos. And all the stuff on the top of the R-D1 I consider necessary for rapid function: it has a frame selector for 50-28-35; it has an analog dial that shows the state of the battery, how many shot remain, what quality of shot you're using (Raw or two different jpgs), and white balance setting. It has a shutter-speed dial with AE slot, compensation marks, and ISO setting, an on-off switch, a shutter cocking level, and a lock-release button. It also has a jog dial for paging through shots on the LCD screen. The back has an AE lock button, the photo-quality/white balance lever, the LCD on-off, Menu, Enter, Cancel and User-select buttons, along with the LCD display. I don't think any of that is unnecessary, at least not on a digital camera. So where is it on this M8? If they buried it all in a menu, we've got problems.
So. I would bet dollars-to-donuts (or, really going out on a limb, euros-to-donuts) that Sean Reid has been working with one of these things. He doesn't have to break any NDA; All he has to do is say, "Yes," or "No."
SEAN, WHERE ARE YOU?
JC
Mark Norton
08-26-2006, 09:41
John, I agree with you; in addition to shutter speed/AE, we need to know, at a glance:
- Quality
- ISO
- EV +/-
- Memory
- Battery
- WB
I'd expect there to be a secondary LCD display somewhere with this information, preferably viewable from the top of the camera.
We know from the leaflet that comes back with coded lenses that the lens in use (if it's coded) is displayed "on the camera monitor", so I'm wondering whether they are using the LCD for this information, which raises worries about battery life and is still not convenient if you can't see it instantly without turning the LCD monitor on.
Rich Silfver
08-26-2006, 10:07
For all those who think this is a fake image: Jorge has stated that he himself took the photographs of this camera. I've got to believe him.
Frank, I can't seem to find anywhere that Jorge says he actually photographed these cameras himself. Do you got a link to that?
If that's the case then yes, I will also believe that these are real.
Thanks,
Rich
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 10:09
I'm actually hoping that the control wheel gets placed somewhere else. That just doesn't look ergonomic somehow. IDK.
It's in the same spot as it is on almost every other digi-cam on the planet, so why is that so strange? Most people are right-handed and it will fall directly under your thumb. Unless you are left-handed there really is no other place to put it.
I come to that conclusion because I'm sitting here looking at an M7 and an R-D1. Neither one -- not even the M7 -- is as "clean" as the supposed M8. And the R-D1, which was widely greeted as a really interesting design -- clean, functional -- is quite a bit more complicated-looking than the M8 photos. And all the stuff on the top of the R-D1 I consider necessary for rapid function: it has a frame selector for 50-28-35; it has an analog dial that shows the state of the battery, how many shot remain, what quality of shot you're using (Raw or two different jpgs), and white balance setting. It has a shutter-speed dial with AE slot, compensation marks, and ISO setting, an on-off switch, a shutter cocking level, and a lock-release button. It also has a jog dial for paging through shots on the LCD screen. The back has an AE lock button, the photo-quality/white balance lever, the LCD on-off, Menu, Enter, Cancel and User-select buttons, along with the LCD display. I don't think any of that is unnecessary, at least not on a digital camera. So where is it on this M8? If they buried it all in a menu, we've got problems.
Agreed, the R-D1 is an ergonomic marvel. The only thing I'd prefer to be different on it is better control over AE lock (or rather, a better idea of what the meter is doing.) Then again I come from the DSLR world where these things are taken for granted. The analogue dials and jog wheel are right up there design wise with the very best of modern industrial design...
John Camp
08-26-2006, 10:14
Mark: Exactly.
Turning on a full-sized LCD will gobble up a battery. It would be odd to be required to turn on a full 2.5-inch display so you could see one ant-sized number that could be easily displayed on a cheap, super energy-efficient display of the type used on throw-away watches, conveniently located on top of the camera. Even the M7 displays "shots remaining" on top, and there is no such display shown on these photographs. My D2x actually has two small displays, in order to save energy with info that needs to be constantly displayed (the F5 also has two small displays, and that's a film camera.) I think there may be a problem with these photos.
Rich Silfver -- Jorge answered Frank somewhat further up the thread and said he did not take the photos himself.
JC
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 10:17
Harry Lime : No its not, usualy it is placed on the upper right side, so when you navigate you can rest your hand.
I’m not commented on whether these photos are real or not but would it be possible for some of the info (i.e. quality, iso, wb etc.) to be placed inside the view finder? I’ve seen some DSLR's that do this. It may make for a crowded view with the frame lines. Just my thoughts
Rich Silfver
08-26-2006, 10:22
Rich Silfver -- Jorge answered Frank somewhat further up the thread and said he did not take the photos himself.
JC
Thanks John.
Post deleted by posters request
John, I agree with you; in addition to shutter speed/AE, we need to know, at a glance:
- Quality
- ISO
- EV +/-
- Memory
- Battery
- WB
I'd expect there to be a secondary LCD display somewhere with this information, preferably viewable from the top of the camera.
I don't want a 2nd LCD . The information I need to know at a glance should be visable thru the viewfinder. WB, Quality, battery and memory can be displayed on the back LCD.
The viewfinder info should be reserved for the unique data you need for that particular shot.
*shutter speed
*F#
*ISO
*compensation
Everything else can go on the LCD. Why would I need to see the WB and Quality on every single shot?
Rex
Post deleted by posters request
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 10:43
Would be better if you could choose what to show in viewfinder, personaly I would like to see nothing but shutter speed :)
humanized_form
08-26-2006, 11:20
the missing info that would be on a top lcd like iso/wb/file quality/remaining images/etc could all be presented in the viewfinder(note that the viewfinder does appear bigger in the pictures, least to me), if this is the case i hope there is a way to turn it off, or that it briefly appears when you half press the shutter button or something.
personally i really like way the the shutter speed is displayed in the m7.
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 11:20
Harry Lime : No its not, usualy it is placed on the upper right side, so when you navigate you can rest your hand.
If it was on the upper right side your thumb would always be resting on it, increasing the chance of you unintentionally changing a setting.
If you are 'chimping' then the cross falls right under your thumb, as you tilt the body forward to see the screen.
If the ribbed ring really does spin to adjust exp. compensation, then as it is pictured, the outer edge of your thumb would be perfectly placed to manipulate it by resting on the upper half of the dial at the 2 o'clock position.
Take a look at almost any Canon SLR or DSLR and you will see the same line of thought. I studied industrial design so I known a thing or two about these issues...
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 11:25
Harry Lime : No, you take a look at Nikon SLR cameras, F6, D200, it has lock :) btw I have them both :)
http://apphotnum.free.fr/images/F6-back.jpg
and d200
http://jancology.com/blog/archives/nikon/nikon-d200-back.jpg
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 11:26
Ah, and canon has as usual everything wrong, but don`t forget canon has scrol and nikon has controling arrows, there is huge functional difference.
http://www.canon.com.au/images/image_library_low_res/eos%205d%20back.jpg
But still, little joystick is on upper side.
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 11:29
Harry Lime : No, you take a look at Nikon SLR cameras, F6, D200, it has lock :) btw I have them both :)
http://jancology.com/blog/archives/nikon/nikon-d200-back.jpg
Take a look at the back of a Canon. On the Nikon your thumb rests on the small dial on the upper right or in the depression. You also have a handgrip on the front of the Nikon/Canon that fills the cup of yor hand and places your thumb higher up the camera body. Holding these cameras is more of a vertical affair than the horizontal approach on a M series camera
I think Leica got it right.
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 11:33
Ah, and canon has as usual everything wrong, but don`t forget canon has scrol and nikon has controling arrows, there is huge functional difference.
http://www.canon.com.au/images/image_library_low_res/eos%205d%20back.jpg
But still, little joystick is on upper side.
Do you see the flat, empty space for your thumb, between the small joystick and AF button?
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 11:36
You are talking about space that you put your thumb while shooting, I am talking about space when you navigate through the controls, Sence the difference? :)
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 11:44
You are talking about space that you put your thumb while shooting, I am talking about space when you navigate through the controls, Understand? :)
Yes, I understand, but a good layout will not get in the way of differnet actions that the operator has to perform.
Shooting and chimping demand different requierments from the layout and in a good design they will not clash.
You're entitled to your opinion, but personally I think Leica got it right.
Mark Norton
08-26-2006, 11:44
I don't want a 2nd LCD . The information I need to know at a glance should be visable thru the viewfinder. WB, Quality, battery and memory can be displayed on the back LCD.
The viewfinder info should be reserved for the unique data you need for that particular shot.
*shutter speed
*F#
*ISO
*compensation
Everything else can go on the LCD. Why would I need to see the WB and Quality on every single shot?
Rex
I don't think for one minute we're going to see the shooting aperture anywhere. Comparing an ambient light sensor with the TTL sensor to establish shooting aperture is fraught with problems, not least when you are using flash.
The point about a monochrome LCD is that they can be on all the time the camera is switched on; the LCD and viewfinder display can only be for short periods because of power drain. Therefore, if there's information you want to be immediately accessible, it needs to be on a monochrome LCD. Nikon do it, Leica do it with the DMR and I expect them to do it on the M8.
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 11:47
Yes, I understand, but a good layout will not get in the way of differnet actions that the operator has to perform.
Shooting and chimping demand different requierments from the layout and in a good design they will not clash.
You're entitled to your opinion, but personally I think Leica got it right.
And they would have not get it if they placed it on the upper side? and put the menu button on the buttom?
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 12:17
And they would have not get it if they placed it on the upper side? and put the menu button on the buttom?
And they would have not get it if they placed it on the upper side? and put the menu button on the buttom?
No, because if it was on the upper right side your thumb would always be resting on it while you were shooting, increasing the odds that you will accidentally change settings. You don't need to operate the cross pad while you are shooting and the ring is in the proper position. When you tilt the camera forward to see the screen, the cross will fall right under your thumb. Pull out your M camera and give it a try.
The little joystick you pointed out on the Canon is for selection AF points, which is something you obviously do while you are looking though the viewfinder. But even in that case Canon leaves you a free space to rest your thumb away from the buttons while you shoot. People tend to grip their cameras tighter in the heat of the moment and you don't want them to press anything unintentional.
Geoff Hall
08-26-2006, 12:18
RFF Has the M8 photos
I saw the M8 image this morning. There are a number of giveaways that say to me it is not the real thing:
10.) The top right side seems odd and not ergonomic. It would feel awkward in my hands. I would like to see it slanted like an M7.
9.) The back controls seem lacking in functions and appear to be only a partial of lift of those found on the Digital-Module-R.
8.) The USB connector door appears out of place. I would think that USB connection would not be given such precedence and placed so non ergonomically close to the camera strap eyelet. I’d like to see it hidden behind a removable bottom plate.
7.) The shutter speed dial appears too small the accommodate the extra shutter speeds eluded too.
6.) There is no indication that the bottom plate is removable. It would be both an unnecessary design effort and retreat from tradition Leica M design to implement a recessed hinged door(s) for the battery and memory card compartment(s).
5.) The right side body protector above the camera strap eyelet seems too short to provide actual protection.
4.) The LCD, on the back, appear to small to be the reported 2.5” size.
3.) The back flash sync jack is missing.
2.) The “8” of the M8 does not match the M in weight or perspective.
1.) The blue auto-focus assistant lamp, to the upper left of the Leica emblem, is too close to the edge of the body. Err, folks, there is no auto-focus to begin with. Well, OK lets say it’s for white balance. It still seems to awkwardly placed.
Personally, I want a M8 to be clear in appearance and ergonomic in function–a Leica hallmark. Like the Digilux 2, keep the front and top analog with the digital controls and display on the back. Something like this:
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 12:26
No, because if it was on the upper right side your thumb would always be resting on it while you were shooting, increasing the odds that you will accidentally change settings. You don't need to operate the cross pad while you are shooting and the ring is in the proper position. When you tilt the camera forward to see the screen, the cross will fall right under your thumb. Pull out your M camera and give it a try.
The little joystick you pointed out on the Canon is for selection AF points, which is something you obviously do while you are looking though the viewfinder. But even in that case Canon leaves you a free space to rest your thumb away from the buttons while you shoot. People tend to grip their cameras tighter in the heat of the moment and you don't want them to press anything unintentional.
Look at it
http://www.nachkebia.com/~lj/m8.jpg
Have you held Leica before? you know how small it is? even as it is placed at the momment you will touch it with your thumb.
Benny Boy
08-26-2006, 12:30
Definitely fake - In the photo of the camera back, you can see that the top plate is not flat but is sloping towards the back. It's too much slope to be from perspective. Kind of ironic since this trickery is made possible through the wonders of digital. Keep your film cameras and buy lots of film - FILM RULES.
Harry Lime
08-26-2006, 12:43
Look at it
Have you held Leica before? you know how small it is? even as it is placed at the momment you will touch it with your thumb.
Yes, I own six M cameras and in addition to my job in the movie business shoot documentary and photojournalistic style material on a freelance basis.
I also own a Canon 1-v, used to own a Canon 5D and rent whatever 1D series camera I need for a job. I also have a Nikon F3, R6.2, Leicaflex SL and several medium format cameras from Hasselblad and Rollei.
I studied industrial design at the Rochester Institute of Technology and if you don't like the layout of the M8 don't buy one.
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 12:46
:D :p :rolleyes: :angel:
In your opinion Harry, it is real or fake?
Whether fake or not (still funny :D), somewhere in this thread is buried what Jorge did... it reads something like he was given small images, and blew them up himself -- lookie at the exif, you see it's got PS CS2 in it. He also said something along the lines of ordering more pics... *shrug*
yeah, i think it's a fake.
Maybe I'm wrong (hope I'm not), but I bet my bottom euro that in the end Jorge will laugh at all the shrewd experts of fake pictures who could not have seen that it is the true M8. Maybe he's already laughing ...:D
If I'm wrong, then you can laugh at me ;)
Best,
Marc "Che sera, sera":cool:
We can laugh all together.
We can laugh all together.
You're right; I'm joining you in a big laugh out loud :D :D :D :D :D
Marc
I have more photos and more specs coming very soon!
I have more photos and more specs coming very soon!
That's news I was expecting ... the answer of a big cheese laughing at all of us ;)
Thanks Jorge.
Best,
Marc
Bob Ross
08-26-2006, 13:31
Definitely fake - In the photo of the camera back, you can see that the top plate is not flat but is sloping towards the back. It's too much slope to be from perspective. Kind of ironic since this trickery is made possible through the wonders of digital. Keep your film cameras and buy lots of film - FILM RULES.
That sort of altered perspective is available to film, too. Product shots are typically shot with large format cameras and often include tilts, shifts and swings. So, film rules perspective trickery, too;) When the product is about the same size as the film (4X5), you are close to the macro zone where perspective adjustments can get strange.
On the original PDF, the body image is 24 chacters wide, same width as the phrase in the text of "additions to our product", above the picture, which if it is at 12pt would be 1.625" or 42mm. That would be quite a compression from a scanned 4X5" negative.
Buy lots of film, it is fun using out of date film:p
Bob
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 13:32
Yeah more pics and more news! yaaai! :D How soon is now? :D
I too find the position of the multiway controller strange - it looks like it would end up in one's palm when holding the camera. But perhaps I just have the wrong technique (and I also don't have a Leica, so my Canon served as a stand in).
http://www.gidenstam.org/photography/img_1932.micro.jpg
Cheers,
/Anders
Nachkebia
08-26-2006, 13:38
AndersG : Tell mister industrial designer Harry about it :D
The viewfinder looks almost as big as the ZI's...
Bob Ross
08-26-2006, 13:56
I have more photos and more specs coming very soon!
Hi Jorge,
Glad to see that your laughter has abated long enough to get up off the floor and offer us another tid bit:D The question now is will Leica beat you to the specs presentation, since the info dike has sprung a leak:o
Bob
humanized_form
08-26-2006, 14:17
The viewfinder looks almost as big as the ZI's...
i agree. that is one reason why i wouldn't be suprised to see some of the info usually displayed in a top lcd inside the viewfinder.
I too find the position of the multivay controller strange - it looks like it would end up in ones palm when holding the camera. But perhaps I just have the wrong technique (and I also don't have a Leica, so my Canon served as a stand in).
http://www.gidenstam.org/photography/img_1932.micro.jpg
Cheers,
/Anders
exactamundo.
You're right; I'm joining you in a big laugh out loud :D :D :D :D :D
Marc
Laugh is very healthy.
:D :angel:
John Camp
08-26-2006, 15:19
i agree. that is one reason why i wouldn't be suprised to see some of the info usually displayed in a top lcd inside the viewfinder.
This has been mentioned a couple of timees -- but in professional digital cameras, it's usually displayed in both places, so you can glance at the info while you're walking along, and also look at it while you're actually shooting.
There are comments bu others (about the lack of controls shown in the photos) about not constantly needing to change white balance -- but if you're shooting outdoors with partial shade or under fast-moving clouds with sunshine breaking through, it's handy. An ISO dial is also handy, because, as is not the situation with film, it is another changeable parameter that is quite handy at times (you keep your lens speed up, and your deep depth of field, and kick up the ISO). The same is true with compensation; being able to dial it up, without going to a menu, is useful.
JC
why would jorge give us fake images?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=362417#post362417
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=362417#post362417
What's this link for? It doesn't work.
Stop playing with our emotions! Post the good stuff for once!!! :bang: :D :bang: :D
Thank you
Khaled
The link does not works Jorge.
:bang:
retrocam
08-26-2006, 16:06
The chrome M8 is beautiful.... what was the link for? The link doesn't work....
sunsworth
08-26-2006, 16:10
why would jorge give us fake images?
Because he isn't God and wants to raise revenue through hits to the site. The more charitable answer is because he believes the images to be a true representation of the camera - whether they are or not is another matter.
Jungle Jim
08-26-2006, 16:10
"What's that blue dot....I don't remember seeing that compass rose button..." If I were a sneaky bugger working for Leica, I would have sent out a bunch of these photos to various ad and news agencies pre-release to see who leaked by using a canary trap. A canary trap is a method for exposing an information leak, that involves giving different versions of sensitive information to each of a group of suspects and seeing which version gets leaked. Each picture is unique, very close to the real product, but not actually the product. When the picture shows up in public, Leica knows exactly which ad agency released the pics. The real pictures are sent out just days prior to the official release date. Something from a Tom Clancy novel, but actually in use by various government and ad agencies. I just love conspiracy theories, eh?
I think it could be the link to the M8 forum. There is a new post: the new Tri Elmar 16-21. And it is not a fake:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=27493
Because he isn't God and wants to raise revenue through hits to the site. The more charitable answer is because he believes the images to be a true representation of the camera - whether they are or not is another matter.
Snakes can bite!
eddie con
08-26-2006, 16:35
the thread does not seem to work.
Ok, Link to chrome M8 is this thread here which you are reading.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27452
Link to Tri-Elmar and viewfinder is:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27493
BillBingham2
08-26-2006, 17:01
Looks like it has a BEAUTIFUL viewfinder!!!
They seem to have done better than I expected.
B2 (;->
Thanks!!!!!
In addition to the Tri-Elmar it is expected a 28mm f/2.8 ASPH lens. The previous 28/2.8 was even bigger than the 28/2 ASPH. I expect a very small lens, at an affordable price !!!
Rich Silfver
08-26-2006, 20:26
Look at it
Have you held Leica before? you know how small it is? even as it is placed at the momment you will touch it with your thumb.
Not sure how this matters as the camera is already designed (regardless if this is an actual photo of it or not) - but if there is a menu selector as in these photos I would personally prefer to have it where it is shown and NOT in the upper right corner.
Then again, I can't stand most Nikon cameras so I may be biased.
I'd pefer a wheel in the back, ala Canon DSLR, becuase it is the superior method to adjust exposure compentsation and aperture.... directional pad blows...
However, I suspect it'll be rather hard to spin a wheel at the rear of the camera given the dimension of the M-body...
Going back to the "Is it real?" question, the shadow of the camera (in frontal view) is definitly PS generated. It is phoney.
Rich Silfver
08-26-2006, 21:04
Going back to the "Is it real?" question, the shadow of the camera (in frontal view) is definitly PS generated. It is phoney.
So I guess we're at;
a) These are actual photos of the M8,
b) These are fake photos of the M8,
c) These are accurate computer renderings of what the M8 will look like,
d) These are fake/incorrect computer renderings of what the M8 will look like.
At this point I'm torn between c and d.
Jorge how did you get these and what makes you believe they are real?
Bob Ross
08-26-2006, 21:07
I'd pefer a wheel in the back, ala Canon DSLR, becuase it is the superior method to adjust exposure compentsation and aperture.... directional pad blows...
However, I suspect it'll be rather hard to spin a wheel at the rear of the camera given the dimension of the M-body...
There does appear to be a ring around the directional pad, which might be a zoom control (magnifier icon)in play mode. In record mode maybe it can be assigned to exposure compensation...and where will that show?
That "info" button might access shooting parameters in record mode and in play mode access histograms, blown highlights, EXIF etc.
You may be right about the size issue.
Bob
Rich and others that question the authenticity of the photos. In Sept you will see more showings of the same. The big trade show is just a few eeks away.
Ever pick up a camera manual and wonder about the actual camera used for the instructions? It has some sort of funny look to it but its real.
Great. Nose-grease on the damn screen on yet another camera.
You use your left eye at the viewfinder???? Am I missing something here??? How many of photogs like you are out there with Leica Rangefinders who use their left eyes?
Ted Witcher
08-26-2006, 21:52
You use your left eye at the viewfinder???? Am I missing something here??? How many of photogs like you are out there with Leica Rangefinders who use their left eyes?
I do, unfortunately, on the Leica. On the Bessa, because it's 1:1, I use my right eye. I use the left on my M6 so I can steady the camera against the bridge of my nose. I also don't have to squint or close my right eye because it's staring into the black of the camera body. Unorthodox, maybe, but it works for me.
back alley
08-26-2006, 21:54
You use your left eye at the viewfinder???? Am I missing something here??? How many of photogs like you are out there with Leica Rangefinders who use their left eyes?
i think we did a poll on this too.
there are many left eyed shooters here.
I removed these photos until I double confirmed their authenticity. Several east coast dealers have confirmed to me that this is the photo they have seen. Although they may look like PS work, they confirm its what they know to exist.
Are you breaking a known embargo? Sorry Jorge, but I hope that is not the case. What gives you the right to plan Leica's publicity? So who is your snitch?
As Jorge is not under an NDA (as far as I am aware) he has every right to show photos of as yet announced products. It's called investigative journalism. It's not like he's gotten a camera to write a review on the promise that it won't be published until after a certain date and he's violated that promise.
Nachkebia
08-27-2006, 10:05
Magic is back :) how sweet, now we have a silver beauty :) I like silver more, perheps because I don`t see back side of it :)
usccharles
08-27-2006, 10:18
which way you thing the shutter wheel is going to turn?? M6 classic way or M6 TTL way?? looks like from the big wheel, it will be M6TTL way? i like that way better :)
I just got off the phone with a very reputable dealer in NY. This person has handled th M8 and had to sign a NDA regarding it. I asked him to validate weather the photos I have up are like the camera he handled. He said he does not dispute the photos but could not give me anymore info for now.
Nachkebia
08-27-2006, 11:44
Jorge Torralba : Well, I think every mocuped M7 and MP with some digital stuff on it will look like the one he handled, don`t you agree? :)
John Camp
08-27-2006, 11:45
I removed these photos until I double confirmed their authenticity. Several east coast dealers have confirmed to me that this is the photo they have seen. Although they may look like PS work, they confirm its what they know to exist.
Good enough for me.
JC
humanized_form
08-27-2006, 12:31
it seems odd that Leica haven't deleted the M8 threads from their official online forums. kind of makes me wonder if this could be an authorized leak of some sort? certainly has generated some hype.
It looks nice but not quite as nice as when it will be available for sale.
trph_2000
08-27-2006, 13:13
What is so hard to believe about the picture? Just go to the
Leica site and look at pics of the old Digilux -2. A Leica M-based
dig RF will emphasize simplicity (at least I hope so). I hope the real thing looks
like Jorge's picture.
I've seen inside the top plate of an M7 and where that blue cell is in the photo there's no room for anything inside behind it. Maybe it's a decorative jewel :D
I just got off the phone with a very reputable dealer in NY. This person has handled th M8 and had to sign a NDA regarding it. I asked him to validate weather the photos I have ......
If you sign and NDA the only admissable comment is "no comment". Any confirmation or denial of anything, is a violation of your NDA.
Rex
After literally hours on the internet I have at last come up with a picture of the M8 that is authentic beyond doubt. Just follow this link (http://www.artzites.com/images/photos/camera/FED2a_front.jpg)and don't worry about the disguise
Paparazzi style of journalism ... is that the future direction of this forum :confused:
What Jorge is doing is totally legitimate. All's fair in love or war...or journalism!
Violating NDAs is a contractual matter between the signer's and Leica.
A society based on the principle of free speech necessarily dictates that people can be rude without being unlawful. Jorge is being neither.
Bring it on, Jorge!
Rex
Paparazzi style of journalism? I can’t believe it.
There were sarcastic sceptics about the credibility of the pictures, now there are judges of Jorge’s morality! Everybody on RFF and a lot of users of other sites are waiting for the new M8, even if they won’t buy it for a reason or another (personally, I won’t; no money and not interested in digital). We are lucky that the administrator of this site, without whom there wouldn’t be any RFF, tries to collect information on new stuffs in the small RF world, and shares with us what he gets.
Enough of misplaced sarcasm and whining. If you don’t want to know the sex of the baby, just turn a deaf ear!
Marc
visiondr
08-27-2006, 18:46
Marc, you are right on! Here, Here. Jorge, keep up the good work. As a former journalist, I applaud your effort to inform us.
Ron
Hello Jorge,
we want you to know, that your work is well done and we hope to see more information of the upcoming M8 from you in the near future.
Go on with your work, it is very well done!
Greetings
Bully
Skinny McGee
08-28-2006, 05:09
Hell, it will be obsolete by the time they get it out..;)
Thanks Jorge! let's hope it is accurate as that is a camera after my heart!:):)
Thanks Jorge.....great scoop. I think a lot of the negative comments are motivated by jealousy that this forum made the headlines and established itself as the pre-eminent RF forum......just read the other forums, they can't even hide their envy. The balance of the nastiness seems to come from anti-Leicaphiles that can't bear the fact Leica may be re-establishing itself, and somehow relegating their brand new plastic DSLR's to the second tier....some on other forums have called the design "embarrassing", "ugly", and "simplistic"......talk about sour grapes!
I thought I would never go digital, but that chrome one is just about the prettiest thing I've ever seen.....
Simon Larbalestier
08-28-2006, 07:42
You use your left eye at the viewfinder???? Am I missing something here??? How many of photogs like you are out there with Leica Rangefinders who use their left eyes?
Mark
errr me :)
left handed left footed and left eyed.........
These pictures are real.
I dont mean to stire up anymore controversy. However, for those that have questions about this photo. Keep this in mind.
Chrtistian Erhardt received an internal email just recently titled:
FYI - M8 Pictures online.EML
and another "Ubelievable"
boilerdoc2
08-28-2006, 10:26
Black and Beautiful! That's what Tony Rose is ordering for me. He said I'm #17 on the list. October is going to be a long wait. R-D1s is getting jealous already.:o
Steve.
Chrome is the way to go :) Maybe one of each. regardless, it will be a perfect mate for the MP.
Rich Silfver
08-28-2006, 15:51
Hell, it will be absolete by the time they get it out..;)
It will be 'absolete'?
Skinny McGee
08-28-2006, 15:57
Wow, Rich you make a nice spell check! and man I (ned) one !
Rich Silfver
08-28-2006, 16:08
Wow, Rich you make a nice spell check! and man I (ned) one !
I actually didn't know if it was a spelling mistake or a term I hadn't heard about as I googled it and there was 17,000 references to the word.
Skinny McGee
08-28-2006, 16:13
Damn, even my misspelling have some deep dark meaning.. You know I think I might be omnipotent!
Ken Ford
08-28-2006, 16:24
Damn, even my misspelling have some deep dark meaning.. You know I think I might be omnipotent!
That's what Viagra is for, right?
Hi to all.
I thought that could be of some sense to post the link of a my recent post on the M8 matter...
Last news on the Leica M8 from my SOLMS reliable source (and great friend !)
or...
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27516&highlight=luigi
Ciao, Luigi
The price is high now: 4,300 euros.
This price and the (increased) price of the lens (if you buy one) will make a bill of (around) 7000 euros, which is a (crazy) lot of cash.
I thought Leica will keep the price of the M8 below 4000 euros, and will provide an affordable lens (28/2,8) in a kit offer, keeping the total amount well below 6000 euros.
Magic is back :) how sweet, now we have a silver beauty :) I like silver more, perheps because I don`t see back side of it :)
HERE (http://www.leicainfo.com/discus/messages/14018/97000.jpg) you can see the backside. (The camera I mean :D) Warning:this is mayby a fake as it is slighty diffent from Jorge's black one.Actually I like this backside better.
Nachkebia
08-29-2006, 05:25
I don`t see it :O
Mark Norton
08-29-2006, 08:22
Well, Jorge's effort uses the DMR as a "loaner" for the picture elements, Jaap's uses bit from the D2 instead....
I wouldn´t mind either of them, but I prefer the less bland look of the chrome one. The front is remarkebly similar, down to the blue dot.
This has somewhat died down. I thought for sure this would be a really hot topic. I guess I better post a picture of the new 28 then :)
NIKON KIU
08-31-2006, 08:55
This has somewhat died down. I thought for sure this would be a really hot topic. I guess I better post a picture of the new 28 then :)
You must be kidding us...there are at least 7 or 8 threads regarding this camera and the release date is not even close, when is it? Three weeks??
I for one have over-dosed on the M8!!:eek:
kiu
Just wait for the time when we will really be getting thing! The site will be flooded with raves, issues and wars!
if you got it, flaunt it.
This has somewhat died down. I thought for sure this would be a really hot topic. I guess I better post a picture of the new 28 then :)
There is only so much you can say. After all it looks exactly like they said it would. Although a picture of the top plate would stir up a hornets nest.
Rex
amateriat
08-31-2006, 10:50
This has somewhat died down. I thought for sure this would be a really hot topic. I guess I better post a picture of the new 28 then :) Between (1) all the excitement surrounding the camera's imminent release, and (2) controversy over the provenance of images of the M8 recently shown here, most of us are likely a bit tuckered-out and simply awaiting the official announcement at Photokina.
Besides, given that I'm certainly not in a position, financially or emotionally, to invest in even one M8 body, let alone a pair (which, for me is the only logical number to buy for something I intend to rely on for hired and personal work), I can't say I'm one to hover over every snippet of news/gossip regarding it.
Of course, if you post a picture of that new 28mm, I promise to give it a look. :)
- Barrett
Mark Norton
08-31-2006, 10:53
There is only so much you can say. After all it looks exactly like they said it would. Although a picture of the top plate would stir up a hornets nest.
Rex
-- or the bottom with or without the base plate
-- or the LCD monitor when you switch it on
-- or the camera front view with the lens removed
-- or the viewfinder information
-- or the price
-- or the spec!
Gabriel M.A.
08-31-2006, 11:11
So...let's debate just how much margarine isn't like butter. Let's forget that they're made differently and wish margarine was dairy or butter were 100% vegan-safe :rolleyes:
Hi there. this is a new forum for me but maybe some ex-LUG guys lurk here too. I'm looking forward to the M8 and belive the details will be released on the 15th on their website.
I did actually see one of the 'beta' cameras being used over in Cambridge some weekends back, though not close enough to be hands on, sadly.
From what my hazy memory recalls, there was the LEICA logo on the front left of the camera then followed by the (missing) M8 badge.
I also seem to recollect more controls on the back RHS of the camera body than the picture shows.
In other words, I'd be less certain that this is a genuine photo of the camera, but whatever, its going to be close enough until all is revealed.
Regards,
Jem
From the looks of this photo it seems the 1.25 eyepiece won't fit. That would tie in with the dropping of the 135 mm focal length. :( :(
;
Mark Norton
09-04-2006, 06:08
From the looks of this photo it seems the 1.25 eyepiece won't fit. That would tie in with the dropping of the 135 mm focal length. :( :(
I for one will not mourn the loss of it if it's true. I'm hoping the big eyepiece will make the viewfinder really easy to use for old dogs like me who wear eyeglasses.
With me it is pretty much standard equipment from 35 mm focallength upwards. Old eyes.....
Mark Norton
09-04-2006, 10:26
Jaap, did you get your 24mm back from coding yet?
Still waiting, Mark. They had to do some work on two of my older lenses as well. It seems, btw, that my gamble on the frame-lines paid off :):)
jaapv
Some third party vendor will come up with a 1.25X eyepiece, if Leica doesn't. That will solve Leica's "dropping" of the 135mm focal length. Actually, Leica didn't drop it as much as not recommend it. They don't want a lot of customers complaining about rangefinder misalignment when its really a case of a lot of old guys with old eyes. I know that I often exceed the F# and baseline requirements with long lens and get away with it . However your margin of error is razor thin and your rangefinder must be in good alignment, for this to work. Leica just doesnt want to open a can of worms by recommending a long telephoto like the 135mm
But, frankly, I'll try everything. Especially with a 1.25X eyepiece.
Rex
;[/quote]
Mark Norton
09-04-2006, 12:14
It seems, btw, that my gamble on the frame-lines paid off :):)
Our gamble, Japp, our gamble!
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