View Full Version : My friend just handled the M8 !!!
A friend of mine in NY who has been in business since the begining of time selling Leica and Zeiss just gave me a report on the M8.
He tells me it is an engineering wonder. Typical German quality throughout.
A little heaver than the M7 but looks very much like it.
He said it had mechanical frame lines from 24 - 90
Very quiet almost silent shutter.
Viewfinder magnification of .68
Shutter speed from 8 seconds to 1/4000
Flash sync of 1/250
He says this is the camera of cameras. Even those with no M lenses will want to buy it.
He say we will probably sell them for 4500.00
Aug 21st Update .....
Some minor changes after some of the specs sent to dealers that are now under a nondisclosure agreement.
price seems to be close top the one I mention above. Definetly below 5k.
Shutter syn is 250 max is like the R9 of 1/8000th .
black and silver available.
official news will be as we all expected 9/15
Must . . . buy . . . lottery . . . tickets
Chris Lynch
08-18-2006, 10:26
1/250 sweeeeeeeeeet
the massive range of framelines is also awesome!
wow i can't wait to see more info about it.
I Am talkingto another dealer on the phone as I type this he is looking at an 11 x 14 print of Chicago taken with the M8. He cannot come up with words to describe the clarity and detail of the print. Let me quote what he says. " I have goose bumps looking at this"
I had been skeptical of previous M8 hype, but this sounds pretty convincing. I figure longtime dealers are the most likely people actually to get their hands on pre-production samples, and people who have lasted a really long time in the photo trade tend not to be rabid cheerleaders (since their success is based on repeat business over time.)
Dang, just when I was thinking I'd finally be able to afford a new car this year. (And the hypothetical Nikon D100-to-D200 upgrade is definitely fading into the Ain't Gonna Happen category.)
In all honesty, what interests me is not the "German quality" (whatever that means) or the specs -- nothing there that seems a radical advance over my R-D 1. But a really quiet shutter and a 90mm frameline (presumably they tucked 75mm in there as well?) would be definite enhancements to the kinds of photography I do.
Yeah, if I somehow managed to figure out how to swing this -- unfortunately, I'm not in the category of RFFer for whom $5,000 is a trivial purchase; for me it's more like, "Holy kack, that's eight months' rent!" -- I'd probably keep the R-D 1 as a second body and to have the 1:1 viewfinder, which is one of my favorite things for a camera to have.
But it does have me looking at all my Nikon DSLR stuff and thinking, "How much could I get for this on eBay?"
Could this be the year I finally ditch SLRs for good and go all-RF...?
I was alsoo informed that that on Monday, the dealers will be able to give more information on the camera including pricing.
I envision Mr. Krabs with $$ signs in his eyes looking at a Costco digiprint saying "money! money! money!!" !!
:p
I Am talkingto another dealer on the phone as I type this he is looking at an 11 x 14 print of Chicago taken with the M8. He cannot come up with words to describe the clarity and detail of the print. Let me quote what he says. " I have goose bumps looking at this"
I want a crabby patty topped off with an M8
ok kids,
time to load up the classifieds with those m4's and m6's (non TTL please) ;)
I'm in the top 5 of a waiting list for this from my dealer here in NYC!
what a great combo! M8 and MP for backup. Complete opposites. It does not get any better :)
kidigital
08-18-2006, 11:05
Great information, Jorge. Thanks. I can't wait. :)
One of the benefits of not being able to afford the m8 right away, is that prices will go down and the bugs will be ironed out by the time I'm anywhere close to the possibility of a purchase. (I just might have to sell off one of my motorcycles for this.)
Would be interesting to see how it can focus a 75mm lens at f/1.4 or a 90mm at f/2 with a .68x VF magnification... http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/doute02.gif
JoeFriday
08-18-2006, 11:22
how much are kidneys going for these days?
Hmm, sell my M6 TTL...anyone want a nice trombone? A few lenses.....
how much are kidneys going for these days?
Not nearly as much as hearts. :)
KoNickon
08-18-2006, 11:26
OK, I've not been paying attention. What is the sensor magnification factor -- 1.5x? So the 24mm frameline = 35mm?
Sounds like a nice camera, but do we still have the issue regarding true wide angles?
I'm with ampguy -- I expect to see those M4s etc. appearing in the Classifieds real soon! (I'm looking for an M5 myself, in case anyone is interested....)
JoeFriday
08-18-2006, 11:29
Not nearly as much as hearts. :)
that doesn't help me.. everybody knows I'm heartless
back alley
08-18-2006, 11:38
i have nothing worth 5 g's to sell!
guess i'll be sticking with film...
sounds like a nice camera though.
joe
chris91387
08-18-2006, 11:40
... (dreaming) if only Leica had 0% financing for 60 months just like GM .....
- chris
JoeFriday
08-18-2006, 11:41
no kidding.. but that would still work out to $75 (plus tax) every month for 5 years
I would like to know how is the back of the camera.
The LCD screen and the number and disposition of the buttons.
I would like to know how the digital medium has affected the ergonomics of the M saga.
Flyfisher Tom
08-18-2006, 11:49
He said it had mechanical frame lines from 24 - 90
Jorge,
when you say "mechanical frame lines", do you mean that one can select for it via a lever, like on a Bessa R2A/R3A etc? That is, it is not actuated by the mount, but by manual selection by lever?
thanks
Sensor crop should be 1.33x not 1.5x I belive
OK, I've not been paying attention. What is the sensor magnification factor -- 1.5x? So the 24mm frameline = 35mm?
Sounds like a nice camera, but do we still have the issue regarding true wide angles?
I'm with ampguy -- I expect to see those M4s etc. appearing in the Classifieds real soon! (I'm looking for an M5 myself, in case anyone is interested....)
Wouldn't fancy cleaning the sensor:eek:
It should not be noticably different than the 0.72 mag...at least not all that much worse.
Would be interesting to see how it can focus a 75mm lens at f/1.4 or a 90mm at f/2 with a .68x VF magnification... http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/doute02.gif
Hmm, ...anyone want a nice trombone? .....
M or Ltm mount? :D
Nico
How large is the screen on the back? I need 2 1/2" to see well. (Can't get used to wearing bifocals.)
Rich Silfver
08-18-2006, 12:02
One of the benefits of not being able to afford the m8 right away, is that prices will go down and the bugs will be ironed out by the time I'm anywhere close to the possibility of a purchase. (I just might have to sell off one of my motorcycles for this.)
I don't know about that...the MP started out at 2,200 dollars new and is now about 3,600 dollars new....
telenous
08-18-2006, 12:03
I want to say 'Oh, no' and 'Oh, yes' at the same time.
Rich Silfver
08-18-2006, 12:05
Jorge, in the past you've had a 'very reliable' contact that made the claim about the coding on the lens mounts driving the frame selectors.
Did it turn out that he was full of it and if so do you plan on scrapping the idea of providing mount coding at RFF?
I don't know about that...the MP started out at 2,200 dollars new and is now about 3,600 dollars new....
The MP is a mechanical film camera, the M8 is an electronic digital imaging device/computer peripheral.
that doesn't help me.. everybody knows I'm heartless
And mine's been broken so many times *whimper* I wonder if they would take it in pieces.
Gabriel M.A.
08-18-2006, 12:23
Must . . . buy . . . lottery . . . tickets
Greeeeeeeeeeennnn...greeeeeeeennn!!!
Must...resist...looking at balance...better go out...and shoot...pictures...
(what's the Powerball at now?)
Gabriel M.A.
08-18-2006, 12:28
Viewfinder magnification of .68
Shutter speed from 8 seconds to 1/4000
Flash sync of 1/250
Wait, I thought it was supposed to be the same or about the same shutter as found on the R8 and R9, and that goes to 1/8000. That's a very squinty viewfinder too. Better than a .58
I guess I have to see it.
Can't wait.
No, I can.
No, wait. Yes, I can.
(or is that "yes I can't"?) --- I'm cornfused.
Is it September yet?
John Shriver
08-18-2006, 12:31
The M8 has one helpful design feature for focusing accuracy -- the sensor is always in the same place. No film flatness uncertainly. So that's one less source of error in focusing. So perhaps focusing the 75/1.4 or 90/2 (with the smaller required circle of confusion due to the crop factor) is going to be reasonable even with a 0.68 finder. But, yeah, that's a WIDE finder, wider than the 0.58 on film. Equivalent of .51 corrected for crop factor.
Of course, another thought. The resolution (lines/mm) of the sensor may set a limit on the required circle of confusion. No point being fussier about focus than what the sensor can resolve...
As for comparing the Leica finder to the Canon variable focal length finders, (1) they aren't feasible with bright line frame lines, and (2) nobody else has a sharp-edge rangefinder patch, allowing split-image focusing. Zeiss/Cosina took a pass on the sharp edge, as did Canon in the 7 and 7s. The Leica RF patch is even parallax corrected along with the framelines (it's in the same sheet of metal).
Rich,
The lack of electronic frame lines does not mean I will not encode the lenses. On the contrary, I am working on aquiring the necessary machine to do the work. At best, if I encode a non Leica lens it will at least transfer focal length data to the camera.
Rich Silfver
08-18-2006, 12:47
I like everything I've read about this camera so far - apart from the .68 viewfinder. For someone like me that shoots almost exclusively with a 50 and 90mm lens a 0.68 viewfinder would be a significant downside.
i have nothing worth 5 g's to sell!
What, no kidneys? Oh, I forgot, eBay stopped accepting that kind of auction...
visiondr
08-18-2006, 12:52
I like everything I've read about this camera so far - apart from the .68 viewfinder. For someone like me that shoots almost exclusively with a 50 and 90mm lens a 0.68 viewfinder would be a significant downside.
Rich,
I suspect Leica or some third party will offer some sort of magnifier for people who use longer focal lengths. Though, such a system would be sweet if built-in. Such an issue wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
Ron
Nachkebia
08-18-2006, 13:00
I guess it is a nice time to buy M7 or MP, there is no digital camera in the world that can be better then film, even it is M8 :) who ever wants to sell M7 or MP send me a PM :)
back alley
08-18-2006, 13:01
What, no kidneys? Oh, I forgot, eBay stopped accepting that kind of auction...
diabetic with a heart condition...low return i would think
M or Ltm mount? :D
Nico
That would be a small shank tenor horn, .500 bore, a good jazz horn. Whodda thunk it, I also have a 1960s horn that is ugly, a user, but with a great character that I really like so I can part with my Getzen.
Gabriel M.A.
08-18-2006, 13:11
That would be a small shank tenor horn, .500 bore, a good jazz horn. Whodda thunk it, I also have a 1960s horn that is ugly, a user, but with a great character that I really like so I can part with my Getzen.
That would be a trombone with quite a character if it actually fits the mount.
I'm thinking...Kenny G? "Kenny G and the Castrati Polka..."
Wow, wow, wow. I know that the film camera market was ever-changing with the latest and greatest, but there was a base mechanical technology that remained very consistent over the years. But computers, wow, they change so fundementally. A ten year old computer is practically useless now. Are people going to spend so much on something that will likely be a paperweight in 10 years? USB will likely change and no longer be supported, operating systems, file formats, repair facilities, the list goes on and on. Is the computer development at enough of a plateau now?
Frank is right, digital cameras are peripheral computer devices.
Nothing that I'm sure every potential buyer hasn't considered, but buying the newest Leica seems like more of an risk then it ever was.
Bob Ross
08-18-2006, 14:26
The M8 has one helpful design feature for focusing accuracy -- the sensor is always in the same place. No film flatness uncertainly. So that's one less source of error in focusing. So perhaps focusing the 75/1.4 or 90/2 (with the smaller required circle of confusion due to the crop factor) is going to be reasonable even with a 0.68 finder. But, yeah, that's a WIDE finder, wider than the 0.58 on film. Equivalent of .51 corrected for crop factor.
Of course, another thought. The resolution (lines/mm) of the sensor may set a limit on the required circle of confusion. No point being fussier about focus than what the sensor can resolve...
I have been trying to get a handle on the 0.68X finder magnification and I think your 0.51 above got me more confused:eek: The way that I approached it is that the film M 0.72 finder is just wider than 28mm to include those frame lines. The M8 has frame lines for 24mm, which has a FOV of 32mm. This leads me to suspect that the whole window is 28mm and might work with a 21mm. While for me they went the wrong way, I don't think it is a big change from the 0.72 finder.
The sensor can resolve 73.5 lp/mm max, so about 58 lp/mm for a 0.8 system MTF (if the sensor has 6.8ĩm photosites, as on the DMR). Leica has noted that focusing on digital seem to be more critical than on film, so it would be interesting to know their logic about the longer fast lenses. I suppose we could back into the COC, to see how much of a compromise there might be and how that might affect print size, as well.
Bob
Frank is right, digital cameras are peripheral computer devices.
On one hand, yeah, but don't forget most people with cameras don't print beyond 8x10, and rarely go to anything larger. Today's 6MP are fine for that. So this 10MP I'm sure will last a long time, we're probably going to see a plateau in the whole megapixel and technology thing. It's great to zoom in 100% and see every nosehair, but we don't do that with prints *shrug*
Of course, the pros who go to magazines and billboards and fine prints, etc, will probably see a continued improvement in technology.
visiondr
08-18-2006, 14:56
Just a thought...
Instead of taking on a second mortgage for a new M8 (as much as I'd love to) why not consider getting a drum scanner (Imacon, maybe used) and keep using my MP.
Then again, it was just a thought...:rolleyes:
Ron
because if you live where I do and don't have your own darkroom you will end up with lots of b/w film and no where to process the stuff ;)
because if you live where I do and don't have your own darkroom you will end up with lots of b/w film and no where to process the stuff ;)
You may be surprised by how little you need to process B+W film. A darkroom certainly is not necessary.
back alley
08-18-2006, 17:08
nope, just a bathroom and a kitchen.
Bathroom OR a kitchen, but hopefully Chris has both. :)
back alley
08-18-2006, 17:14
i like to load my film in the bathroom, no windows, easier to keep it dark and then the rest of the processing is in the kitchen under bright light.
kitchen AND bathroom
rogue_designer
08-18-2006, 17:22
i like to load my film in the bathroom, no windows, easier to keep it dark and then the rest of the processing is in the kitchen under bright light.
kitchen AND bathroom
Ah - well that explains that.. I have managed with a changing bag and just a bathroom.... technically, I have a kitchen. Technically. *grumbles at misleading apartment advertisements*
Brett: I was going to sell my left something-else; I believe it is still productive even though the USB port had its drivers removed.
Instead of taking on a second mortgage for a new M8 (as much as I'd love to) why not consider getting a drum scanner (Imacon, maybe used) and keep using my MP.
Been there, done that (not with a drum, just a regular film scanner.) It's a great work model if your style of photography is to aim for an occasional really good individual picture.
If you shoot a LOT of pictures, you'll quickly discover that spending hours developing and contacting PLUS more hours prepping and scanning become a huge millstone around your neck.
JoeFriday
08-18-2006, 18:13
nope, just a bathroom and a kitchen.
which pretty much covers my apartment
and yes, that's exactly what I'm using my bathroom and kitchen for right this minute
Been there, done that (not with a drum, just a regular film scanner.) It's a great work model if your style of photography is to aim for an occasional really good individual picture.
If you shoot a LOT of pictures, you'll quickly discover that spending hours developing and contacting PLUS more hours prepping and scanning become a huge millstone around your neck.
I'm sure you aren't advocating for taking a lot of mediocre pictures instead
of just a few good ones, but it sounds that way. :)
Wow. It looks like I am the only person that does not like the fact you have to get your lens coded in order to use them with the M8. If you do not get your lenses coded then the camera's sensor will not optimize for the lens you have mounted. At least that is how I understandit. I guess that I am the pickiest one out of the bunch. That sucks.:bang: :o
Chris Lynch
08-18-2006, 19:06
i'm thinking the lens code really only helps with Exif data- or does it actually NEED it, kinda like the consumer/prosumer Nikon DSLR's need for a CPU'd manual lens?
Right you are Frank! Unfortunatly I did it for a living for about 3 years and sorta ruined the fun of it all. I just might dig out my Jobo tanks though and start again cause I really want to play with some Delta 100 and 3200! It's just a matter of finding the proper place to hang the film to dry... someone mentioned a shower I think once.. that might be a good idea! Though not for an M8 thread I suppose :P:P Send me a PM if you have any ideas!
John Camp
08-18-2006, 19:09
how much are kidneys going for these days?
Whose kidney?
John Camp
08-18-2006, 19:17
As far as financing goes, there's a whole school of thought that says the M8 will depreciate quickly in the face of massive digital upgrades, etc. If you're of that school of thought (I'm not), you *could* get a credit card from somewhere -- anywhere -- put the camera on it, fail to pay anything, and by the time they managed to legally seize the camera, it'll only be worth $46 and you'll be able to buy one for cash...
Just a thought.
John Camp
08-18-2006, 19:21
Yours maybe?:p
Naw, I'd fight back. And that's always the trouble with sellling kidneys, the owners fight like junkyard dogs. I mean, jeez, they got *two* of them.
JC
Is this personal experience talking then? :p
Mark Norton
08-18-2006, 19:28
Wow. It looks like I am the only person that does not like the fact you have to get your lens coded in order to use them with the M8. If you do not get your lenses coded then the camera's sensor will not optimize for the lens you have mounted. At least that is how I understandit. I guess that I am the pickiest one out of the bunch. That sucks.:bang: :o
Why does that suck, Glenn? Leica have provided image optimization which depends on it knowing what lens is mounted. The existing camera knows only which of 3 focal length groups the lens falls into which is not enough. They have also gone to the trouble of providing a reasonably priced upgrade service for current production and the majority of recently discontinued lenses to protect users' investment in Leica glass.
So what part of that sucks, Glenn? What part of that don't you like? How would YOU have done it (since you are presumably an expert in these things)?
If Leica had said that only new lenses could be coded with no upgrades to existing lenses, that would suck. But they haven't.
Wow, wow, wow. I know that the film camera market was ever-changing with the latest and greatest, but there was a base mechanical technology that remained very consistent over the years. But computers, wow, they change so fundementally. A ten year old computer is practically useless now. Are people going to spend so much on something that will likely be a paperweight in 10 years? USB will likely change and no longer be supported, operating systems, file formats, repair facilities, the list goes on and on. Is the computer development at enough of a plateau now?
Frank is right, digital cameras are peripheral computer devices.
Nothing that I'm sure every potential buyer hasn't considered, but buying the newest Leica seems like more of an risk then it ever was.
I've thought a lot about my comments here and I've changed my mind. Everything gets old. I'll wager a Leica ages better than most things, and what fun for the moment.
Why does that suck, Glenn? Leica have provided image optimization which depends on it knowing what lens is mounted. The existing camera knows only which of 3 focal length groups the lens falls into which is not enough. They have also gone to the trouble of providing a reasonably priced upgrade service for current production and the majority of recently discontinued lenses to protect users' investment in Leica glass.
So what part of that sucks, Glenn? What part of that don't you like? How would YOU have done it (since you are presumably an expert in these things)?
If Leica had said that only new lenses could be coded with no upgrades to existing lenses, that would suck. But they haven't.
No, Mark. It "sucks" that I am so picky. But since you asked. I would have just made it a menu option for those that do not want to send their glass off. Change a lens and select from the menu what lens you have on the camera. That way I would not have a degraded product if I really do not want to trust "Brown" or "Fed-Ex" to deliver my lenses.
It could be that they have very little in the way of interface. Therefore making it necessary to mill out lenses to be used with the M8. To me it just seems like PPP.
Sooo, since I am the only one that has brought this up I stated that it "sucks" that "I" am that picky. OK? Peace, out.:angel:
Harry Lime
08-18-2006, 21:29
Wow. It looks like I am the only person that does not like the fact you have to get your lens coded in order to use them with the M8. If you do not get your lenses coded then the camera's sensor will not optimize for the lens you have mounted. At least that is how I understandit. I guess that I am the pickiest one out of the bunch. That sucks.:bang: :o
Leica has said that you don't HAVE to get your lens encoded for it to work with the M8.
Mark Norton
08-18-2006, 21:35
We don't yet know whether Leica will include a menu option to select the lens manually. The argument for it is, as you say, that you can take advantage of the M8 features without having to code the lenses. The argument against it is that incorrectly selecting it may make things worse, not better.
We know that the coding shows not just focal length but the actual lens formulation so the processing is likely to be highly specific to the lens mounted so what works for a Leica 21mm f2.8 might not work for a Zeiss equivalent. If I was Leica, I would only want these additional features to be enabled when I was sure the correct lens was mounted.
The Nikon D2X allows you to manually configure the focal length and maximum aperture of a lens mounted on the camera which it does not recognise. This is done purely for metering purposes, not image enhancement and if you get it wrong, the exposure and recorded aperture are wrong.
There is also the commercial reason to limit the functionality to Leica lenses - best image quality comes from the Leica camera, the Leica "film" (sensor/processing software) and Leica lens working together as a tightly integrated whole.
Mark Norton
08-18-2006, 21:37
Harry, yes they have said you can use uncoded lenses but they have also said that the features which make use of the code will not be available.
Yes, a sub menu that lets you select the lens attached. If the camera can set frame lines when the lens is attached why not provide a list of possible lenses of the same focal length that are supported by on-board image enhancment. Also provide an option for 'none' in the list. This way a user can program their most used 35mm or 50mm as the default so when they're changing lenses on the fly the correct settings are applied without going back through the menu.
Also, perhaps, hackers will develope there own or variations of the original provided factory selections of image enhancement (firmware rev's) for certain lenses will become available.
Sub menus would allow you to select perhaps one of four possible choices for the summicron IV rather then just the current factory revision. I could see debates among users as to what rev IE was better for each lens or which rev favors a particular scene or usage.
Nachkebia
08-18-2006, 23:19
Have you tried working with 100 RAW files? you think it is easier? well I don`t, at least I know with film I get the texture and grain I want, with raw files I have to try hard to give it a bit of depth, time spending is same, developing films are more enjoyeble though :)
Been there, done that (not with a drum, just a regular film scanner.) It's a great work model if your style of photography is to aim for an occasional really good individual picture.
If you shoot a LOT of pictures, you'll quickly discover that spending hours developing and contacting PLUS more hours prepping and scanning become a huge millstone around your neck.
shutterflower
08-18-2006, 23:36
Hmm . . . . American Express Gold Card, here I come!
not really.
Tempting, though.
sunsworth
08-18-2006, 23:48
Have you tried working with 100 RAW files? you think it is easier? well I don`t, at least I know with film I get the texture and grain I want, with raw files I have to try hard to give it a bit of depth, time spending is same, developing films are more enjoyeble though :)
Yup I have and I find it far easier and quicker than developing and scanning 3 rolls of film. I preview the images in iView Media Pro and only convert the ones I want to convert at that point in time.
Steve
time to load up the classifieds with those m4's and m6's (non TTL please)
haha, I guess thats the really good news for other people like me who donīt even come close to that money for digital capture! I hope that the prices of old M -gear (here I come M4) are coming down a bit cause of a lot of shooters will "upgrade" to an M8 (like it happened to Nikon..a friend bought an "new" F4 last week for 300!! holy cr*p)
I think thou that there will be a "breaking point" in the future when the old analoge Leica Mīs will be worth more than the M8 (It all depends on how the digital market developes and how fast Leica will come out with M9 / M10) At least that is a wonderfull argument to the better half for purchasing another M body ;)
Nonetheless Iīm very interested (as everybody else) in info about the machine itself and finally want to see a picture!! Thanks Jorge for the Update! (canīt you get the test picture from the guy you know? Maybe you can talk him into sending you a scan to help you decide youre purchase :angel: )
sunsworth
08-19-2006, 02:17
It seems the NDA could be lifted on Monday, I expect there'll be a picture or two then ;-)
Any info about TTL flash on the M8?
I hate menus. And they seem so un-Leica-like. Obviously there will have to be a UI with menues, but still.
Today I have seen a photographer testing the M8 in Madrid. It was in "El Escorial".
He carried a lot of Leica cameras.
I took a picture of him...
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6616/leicamanmv2.jpg
PetarDima
08-19-2006, 05:46
Jorge, I have two thoughts( questions ) :
- What will be with wide angle?( if I want to shoot with 35mm speed lenses(F:2)- I don't have 35 mm after crop factor... where is full frame ?)
- Noise on ISO 800 and up...?
photogdave
08-19-2006, 07:54
I like the idea of the latest M fitting over your head...
You truly become one with the camera!
Right now, I still don't like digital photography, but who knows how I will feel about this issue a year from now. I agree with Frank that common sense suggests that the price of a computer based camera should go down and not up.
Raid
I like the idea of the latest M fitting over your head...
You truly become one with the camera!
Not fitting over, implanted! Truly become one with the camera, Borg style. (Star Trek reference)
Not fitting over, implanted! Truly become one with the camera, Borg style. (Star Trek reference)
Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated. We are the Borg.
Gabriel M.A.
08-19-2006, 20:45
Truly become one with the camera, Borg style. (Star Trek reference)
The Borg didn't have any style. They consumed anything in their path, asked no questions, and operated under the same thought. A very unified party. Once a few were unplugged from the Collective, they became textbook cheesy, with horrible sense of fashion. They so needed a Wesley Eye for the Collective Guy.
(You may now groan) :cool:
Harry Lime
08-19-2006, 22:19
Harry, yes they have said you can use uncoded lenses but they have also said that the features which make use of the code will not be available.
I would be shocked if the included RAW converter didn't let you apply the same in camera lens optimization routines in post.
Mark Norton
08-20-2006, 04:08
I am sure it will, providing the camera has recorded the lens type in use in the EXIF file header.
I am sure it will, providing the camera has recorded the lens type in use in the EXIF file header.
The R-D1 knows nothing about the lens but its raw conveter lets you choose what setting you prefer for vignetting for instance, then it would be surprising if Leica don't do the same IMHO.
The R-D1 knows nothing about the lens but its raw conveter lets you choose what setting you prefer for vignetting for instance, then it would be surprising if Leica don't do the same IMHO.
The Leica will almost certainly use DNG, so you can use any RAW converter software. I seriously doubt Leica has the software chops to develop something superior to Adobe, Apple or Phase One (Nikon and Canon can't get their desktop software act together either, despite vastly superior resources and longer experience with electronics and software).
The M8 TTL will come out one year after the M8. It will have backward knobs, and be larger. The M8 will then be called the "M8 non-TTL" or "M8 Classic"...
Any info about TTL flash on the M8?
Nachkebia
08-20-2006, 10:34
majid : nikons raw converter "nikon capture" is a super application, there is no better software to handle one to one image.
Imagestreet
08-20-2006, 11:20
Here is the link to a picture of the M8 TTL
http://forum.shutterbug.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8394&an=0&page=0
Mark Norton
08-20-2006, 11:51
Oh please, it's a fake and you know it.
That pic looks pretty real to me... It's about time Leica introduces an internal flash on the M series..
Nachkebia
08-20-2006, 12:26
:D :D :D 4/3 :D thats a little bit pathetic :)
I really had to laugh at the program setting for "Bresson"... and the film advance is there to ...cock the shutter?
Fake, sure, but funny. See that mode setting? :D
Love the "Bresson" mode used for capturing the decisive moment no doubt!
my inside sources tell me that Leitz is currently in negotiations with both Luigi, and Halliburton for the contract to protect these babies from the harsh climates they may see...
Oh please, it's a fake and you know it.
mc_vancouver
08-20-2006, 13:31
Anyone wanting to sell their M6 or MP I'm game. Of course I'd love to get an M8, but to do that I'd probably get caught and end up in jail...
Anyone wanting to sell their M6 or MP I'm game. Of course I'd love to get an M8, but to do that I'd probably get caught and end up in jail...
Check the classifieds at RFF right now!
[QUOTE=Nemo]Today I have seen a photographer testing the M8 in Madrid. It was in "El Escorial".
He carried a lot of Leica cameras.
I took a picture of him...[QUOTE]
Nemo, that is a great image! I feel like that some days!
Mark Norton
08-20-2006, 14:00
...but nothing to do with the M8. Another tedious hoax.
The Borg didn't have any style. They consumed anything in their path, asked no questions, and operated under the same thought. A very unified party.
So what you're saying is SLRs are the borg :D
The R-D1 knows nothing about the lens but its raw conveter lets you choose what setting you prefer for vignetting for instance, then it would be surprising if Leica don't do the same IMHO.
It would be easy (and not very costly) for Leica to develop a Photoshop plug-in for lens corrections, and color and black&white profiles. This, and a copy of Photoshop Elements 4.0, would be enough.
The same could be done for Capture One LE.
Aperture does not allow third parties plug-ins at this moment.
amateriat
08-20-2006, 19:58
Have you tried working with 100 RAW files? you think it is easier? well I don`t, at least I know with film I get the texture and grain I want, with raw files I have to try hard to give it a bit of depth, time spending is same, developing films are more enjoyeble though :) This is borne out by a friend who dove deep into digital for a year (and stopped shooting film entirely for that period). He does a lot of fine-art shooting which he sells independently. The problem wasn't that he couldn't get good results from his RAW files (he certainly could), but the amount of work to "get there" was daunting. He actually found it easier to scan film and work it from there (of course, he has his processing technique and standards down cold, as well as an excellent film scanner). Same deal with me. Depending on one's desires and standards, one can be easier than the other, but there's no absolute answer: we do what we need to do (or think we need to do, anyway).
But it's good to hear the M8 is really ramping up. I'm not in the running for one (or anything digital beyond the little Olympus I was given by someone), and that's fine. But if it puts a nice gust of wind into Solms' sails, all the better for everyone in RF land, film-shooters and non.
- Barrett
You can do things with digital files that cannot be done with film. Basic manipulations can be done on digital files faster than on film.
Of course, you can scan, but then you need more work before you start, taking a digital picture of a file instead of a digital picture directly.
I understand many people have their way of doing things, but I don't see any "objective" advantage in shooting film.
OK, I've not been paying attention. What is the sensor magnification factor -- 1.5x? So the 24mm frameline = 35mm?
Sounds like a nice camera, but do we still have the issue regarding true wide angles?
I'm with ampguy -- I expect to see those M4s etc. appearing in the Classifieds real soon! (I'm looking for an M5 myself, in case anyone is interested....)
1.33, so 24 = 32. I do hope the 1.25 Okular will fit :)
OK, I've not been paying attention. What is the sensor magnification factor -- 1.5x? So the 24mm frameline = 35mm?1.3 I think, which means 24=31.2, 90=117
Some updates to original post. see post #1
Bob Ross
08-21-2006, 08:23
Some updates
Thanks for the additional tid bits, but I was hoping for something more significant, like will it have a screw in cable release socket and is the tripod mount still at the end of the body...:bang:
Or, is that included in the "looks like an M7" comment.....:rolleyes:
Bob
Mark Norton
08-21-2006, 10:17
Excuse me for not getting too excited about this - the list could easily have been compiled from various discussion groups and presented as a plausible summary of the camera. We'll know soon enough but of course the source of this goldmine of information has a let-out - any deviation from his authoritative report can be put down to these secret last minute changes. Like Viewfinder magnfication and top shutter speed. Of course.
Fortunately I have enough trivial issues going on in my daily life that I can focus on until the important issue of the M8 specs is officially laid out in a few weeks:D
newyorkone
08-21-2006, 21:10
If Leica includes a 3 year passport warranty with the M8 then I'm in for sure. Although, it might put them out of business too if there are a lot of bugs...let's hope that there aren't any like with my Canon 5D ;)
How many would care about warranry issues? ... I know mine will end up staying in a demostration case for years - I probably won't ever know there're issues with it. :D :D :D
photogdave
08-21-2006, 21:33
If Leica includes a 3 year passport warranty with the M8 then I'm in for sure. Although, it might put them out of business too if there are a lot of bugs...let's hope that there aren't any like with my Canon 5D ;)
Are you saying the 5D has bugs? I haven't heard of or experienced any...
If there are common problems with the M8, the Passport warranty could be ruinously expensive for Leica, and that must be one among several powerful motivations for them to get it right the first time!
I sure hope it has the passport warranty. Did the DMR have it (not sure)? The Panny-Leicas haven't...
Mark Norton
08-21-2006, 22:58
And I think they are still learning. There was a bad release of DMR firmware and some months later, I'm not aware of a replacement.
The M8 is likely to be much bigger (factor of 5, 10?) than the DMR so any issues will have a greater impact. They're entirely right to have had such a long period of testing. Jorge's "mole" talks of last minute changes. If the mole is correct (a rash assumption), years of software development tells me that would be bad news.
The great danger of late software changes is that they destabilise the product and destroy your previous investment in testing.
SolaresLarrave
08-21-2006, 23:02
Good luck to Leica in this endeavor! :) I hope the M8 is the goose with the golden eggs for them.
Also, let's hope they don't abandon film altogether...
Other than that... I'll be observing the rapid flow of analog cameras and probably reap some benefits out of it. Who knows?
newyorkone
08-22-2006, 05:57
Are you saying the 5D has bugs? I haven't heard of or experienced any...
My 5D's LCD started flaking out after 3 months of ownership. It flickers in and out of showing all the colors and only showing what apears to be 8 bit color - like when Windows boots up in safe mode. I've also read stories of lost images and cameras freezing up. Alas this is the digital world.
Hopefully the M8 will be far more reliable.
Terence T
08-22-2006, 06:06
Might have to junk my R-D1 for one of these...
photogdave
08-22-2006, 07:15
If there are common problems with the M8, the Passport warranty could be ruinously expensive for Leica, and that must be one among several powerful motivations for them to get it right the first time!
With so many buying grey market these days I wonder if the warranty is an issue for them?:D
equalizer
08-27-2006, 06:14
Are you sure about the 1/4000 shutter speed?
Then how they can achieve the quietness of the shutter? ...and why M models up to the M7 have 1/1000 maximum?
what i heard was leica decided that there was too much stress on the shutter for the M7 at speeds faster than 1/1000. so how are they happy with 1/4000 and 1/8000?
what i heard was leica decided that there was too much stress on the shutter for the M7 at speeds faster than 1/1000. so how are they happy with 1/4000 and 1/8000?
It's not a cloth shutter, 1/8000th is no problem for shutters made from metal blades.
1/8000 is not a difficult as it sounds. During the time of 1/1000 mechanical shutter duration, the CCD will end or begin the exposure during that interval to create a faster shutter speed. This is already done with a lot of cameras.
what i heard was leica decided that there was too much stress on the shutter for the M7 at speeds faster than 1/1000. so how are they happy with 1/4000 and 1/8000?
From everything I've read the shutter is no longer horizontally moving cloth but rather a shutter derived from the R9, thereby allowing the higher shutter speeds.
equalizer
08-27-2006, 08:26
From everything I've read the shutter is no longer horizontally moving cloth but rather a shutter derived from the R9, thereby allowing the higher shutter speeds.
yes but this means louder shutter... (?)
yes but this means louder shutter... (?)
In the opening post of this thread, Jorge reports that according to his friend the shutter is still very quiet. If it's near silent, as with film M's, remains to be heard.
Most of the noise from SLR's seems to come from mirror slap and motorized film advance, not specifically the shutter. Voigtlanders have vertical shutter and while not as quiet as a Leica are quiet enough for the vast majority of uses. The sound seems to be made worse by the fact that the Voigtlander's body isn't particularly solid or well dampened, in comparison to Leica. There's a sort of hollow sound that isn't present in the M. The heavier Leica body will likely quiet the shutter a bit.
The only time I might need a dead silent camera is if I wanted to shoot during a take on a film set with sound rolling, which is very much possible with a film M. For all the supposed advantages of having a silent camera for street photography, in my experience most city streets are so loud that even a motorized SLR can't be heard. The size of the camera makes much more of a difference when trying to be unobtrusive on the street.
In any case, I'm not overly worried about the shutter sound.
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