View Full Version : A hard decision.
Stephanie Brim
08-16-2006, 13:06
I'm between a rock and a hard place here. I have to do something to get some money for a down payment on a car as soon as possible because I've found one that I really love and I don't really want to let it go even though I don't have my license yet. It's a '95 Honda Civic EX coupe. I need the car and the license because it will allow me to go out of town to find a job...which gives me many more options than I have now. The biggest problem is that the only higher ticket items that I have happen to be my beloved cameras and my PSP.
So...I have to make a decision regarding the Canon P. I've got a decent little kit for it now that includes a J3 from Brian, a J9 and a J12, a hood that fits the J3 and J12 that includes a series 6 filter holder, and some series 6 black and white filters. The problem is that the camera means so much to me that I'm having trouble with the idea of giving it up. I tell myself that at tax time next year I should be able to buy a new Bessa R2M, but it isn't the P.
So I have this very hard decision to make. Sell the P and be without an interchangable lens rangefinder until next year, sell the P and go Russian for a half a year, or keep the P and lose the car.
Also note that I haven't asked my dad if he'd be willing to help me with the down payment yet. I hate asking my parents for money, but in this case I may have to break down and do so. I'll feel better, though, if I can come up with all of it on my own.
So yeah...thanks for lending a sympathetic ear and such. Advice is always appreciated.
Gabriel M.A.
08-16-2006, 13:13
That's a tough one. I'm very bad at these sorts of decisions. This is the sort of thing that only a few glasses, friends and face-to-face can help bring out the dialog. This is something that requires a dialog, you know?
If I've read you right before, you'll do something I tend to do: overthink it, rationalize it from every angle, and in the end doing the first thing you thought of doing.
Coming to the Bastion of GAS is also probably the last place to ask about letting go of a nice setup as yours!
If you have time, I say let it simmer for a week (a week!)
Best.
Flyfisher Tom
08-16-2006, 13:15
I'd keep the P and save up for the car.
Stephanie Brim
08-16-2006, 13:19
I think the only thing that's making me hesitate on this is that the camera has major emotional value for me. I will cry when I sell it, whether that time is now or sometime in the future. But the car would afford me a better job in another town and that job would afford me more money to spend on camera equipment...and when I think about it that way, I could get my Canon P back eventually. But it wouldn't be MY Canon P, you know?
I'm going to take it with me tonight and shoot some photos. Most likely just with the J12. The camera is an extension of you as a photographer, you know? It's kind of like giving up a part of me. I just hope that if I do sell it that the person who gets it will appreciate it as much as I did.
back alley
08-16-2006, 13:26
sell the camera and the psp and anything else that isn't bolted down and is salable.
leave town for a better job, save money and buy something that will take the pics you want.
food on the table and Independence is worth more than a hobby in the short term and the long term.
there will always be cameras for sale. a better job with a decent income is key to the future.
this is not a time for sentimentality.
Sell the PSP and the fixed lens cameras, keep the Canon.
Simon Larbalestier
08-16-2006, 13:29
I would have thought that a car such as that model is easier to find later on, once you have your licence - your camera kit it seems is much more valuable to you.
I'd get the licence first and in the meantime hold onto the camera kit.
GAS affects us all and in my case is usually a compulsive and swift decision and more often than not involves a sale or trade of equipment i will regret later on.
To be able to step back and give yourself a bit more time to consider more options can make this current situation fell less immediate and frustrating - if that makes any sense ?
Good luck with it Stephanie :)
Sell it here to another RFF'r with the condition that if they sell it later, you get 1st dibs on a buyback.
Don't get so attached to that car. Cars just rust and cost you money. There's nothing special about the car you have in mind. There is something special about your camera gear. You don't have your licence yet, you don't NEED THAT car. You'll easily find another used car to buy once you''re ready. financially and licence-wise.
wlewisiii
08-16-2006, 13:44
Keep the camera and save towards a downpayment. A car is useless until you can legally/safely drive it; the camera works for you now.
William
ClaremontPhoto
08-16-2006, 13:45
sell the camera and the psp and anything else that isn't bolted down and is salable.
leave town for a better job, save money and buy something that will take the pics you want.
food on the table and Independence is worth more than a hobby in the short term and the long term.
there will always be cameras for sale. a better job with a decent income is key to the future.
this is not a time for sentimentality.
He's right. Sell anything to get the car to get a better life.
He's right. Sell anything to get the car to get a better life.
Sell everything except that Canon P and your favourite lens.
bob cole
08-16-2006, 13:50
Stephanie, if you have a good credit rating, you might talk to the loan officer at a commercial bank or a credit union [ not a finance company] and see whether you can get a small loan for a down payment...
If you have a credit card with an available balance you can borrow, that might help until you get a job...You may find that it's easier to borrow money than you believe but don't get in over your head...put your cards on the table and, just possibly, you will be able to manage without selling anything...
[keep in mind that in addition to the down payment, you'll need money for the car plates, license, registration, insurance, etc.]
Car dealers will be happy to help but always charge more than a bank or credit union...happy landing!!\
One additional option: If you get a co-signer --someone who will pay your debt if you don't -- that would also help...
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run" —Robert A Heinlein
Don't get too attached to your stuff, not a good idea.
Tough love is some times the best kind. My gut reaction is to agree with Joe. That said, get your license first, until then, the car is useless and as Frank said, you will find another.
There's nothing special about a used car, especially if you don't have your licence yet. Let that car go. Finding a used car to buy (when that time comes) is not going to be a problem.
(I know EXACTLY how you feel, though! Sometimes you get it into your head that THAT IS THE CAR I MUST HAVE, but it's simply a mindset, nothing more. With me it was a particular motorcycle, but it was a bit special.)
I'm sure that you've already thoughht of the following but ask yourself again:
Are there any alternatives to the car, can you get a bus for instance?
If you get the car can you afford to run it, gas, tyres, service, insurance etc.
Will a car get you a better job?
Consider moving to the area nearer the better jobs
The camera however special is just a piece of hardware, it can be replaced
Will a car make you happy like the Canon P does
And finally, remember that you will make the right decision either way, do not dwell on decisions already made.
Good luck and take care. Oh and I second comments from gabrielma
Sell the PSP, and use the time you spend on the PSP to take pictures.
Stephanie,
I have had alot of different cars in my life. I can remember times when a great, new car meant the world to me. But, Stephanie, cars are only a means of transportation, and they eventually break down, and another one comes around. In the long run, which car you have is not very important. You obviously love your camera and if you sell it, you will regret it. So, skip the Honda and look for a good, cheap (maybe slightly ugly) but reliable used car and hold on to your camera by all means.
Keep the canonet and sell everything else...
A lot of shooting can be done with a canonet....
Adding to the "a car is a car" theme.....
I drove around a 1973 red Chevy Vega as my first car. A part of the fender fell off when hit by a basketball one day I was out playing with my friends. Don't fixate on what you drive, just think when the time comes, what you have is reliable and serves it's purpose.
Al Patterson
08-16-2006, 14:14
I think the only thing that's making me hesitate on this is that the camera has major emotional value for me. I will cry when I sell it, whether that time is now or sometime in the future. But the car would afford me a better job in another town and that job would afford me more money to spend on camera equipment...and when I think about it that way, I could get my Canon P back eventually. But it wouldn't be MY Canon P, you know?
Hey if you sell it to someone on here, you just might be able to buy it back from them at a later date. If I had the money, I'd buy your P, use it until you wanted it back, and sell it back to you....
PetarDima
08-16-2006, 14:45
Save Canon, buy Bessa R2M. Car will be fine, when you will have licence ...
I am happy with wife, two kids and new baby will come for about 8 months...life is beautifull, even when you can't have everything you want - I have only Kiev 4, but one day I'll have Bessa R3M or R2M too. Happy shooting!
We are so lucky to have photography forum like this!
back alley
08-16-2006, 15:01
man you guys are hard core!
some of you anyway.
any camera can be had with enough money in the bank.
same with any car.
but right now the car would lead to a better chance at money in the bank if there were a better job to be had because of it.
how long does it take to get a license?
get the car, get the license, get the job, get the camera again.
joe
flashover
08-16-2006, 15:17
not that long ago I needed a DSLR for some work I was doing. Just didn 't have the cash for one. So I sold my RF gear including my first Leica. Now I don't need the DSLR so it was sold a couple of days ago to cover something else. The point I am making is sometimes we have to make hard decissions or not so hard ones. Unless the car you are looking at is an unbeliveable deal there will be others.
Man.....a lot of us have forgotten what hard times are like. It's the disposable income in us.....I'm sure. Steph, if you are trying to step up in the world, getting a car is the right step. No doubt you will have more opportunity with a car. Maybe you can give / sell the Canon P to your Father in exchange for a loan. If you Father knows you well, he will know that you are serious about moving ahead with your life if you are willing to part with your Canon P. I remember poverty well and I would have already sold the camera. A couple of bucks here and there made a hugh difference.....especially after my Son was born. You sound well rounded and intelligent. I bet you will end up with a better camera down the road. If I recall correctly, there are many stories here from members who regret selling a camera in their past. Your turn may be coming soon. I also see that there are many Leica owners here. This too can happen to you. You will make the right choice.
I enjoy this hobby, but a camera is NOT a car. If the car will get you a better job, do what you have to do. My love is in my driveway.....1967 Olds 98 with a 365HP 425. Even with gas prices the way they are, it's a thrill.
The choice is between two emotional attachments. Finding a good used car in Steph's area is not quite so simple. Waiting until she has the license means that specific car could be gone, then the search starts over, with all the stress associated with that.
But I agree that, as difficult as it is, Steph needs to distance herself emotionally as much as possible. Again, that's not easy. As Joe says, it's the future that is the primary focus. The ultimate goal is to move forward.
My first 35mm camera was a Konica C35V, and for the life of me I don't know what happened to it. When I returned to RFs, I sought out a good C35 (RF version) just for "old times sake". It's nice to have and helps connect me to the original C35V, which was really important in my photographic life. But if holding on to the current C35 got in the way of moving forward, I'd be able to part with it.
I suspect that whatever Steph decides to do, she'll make the right choice for her. Her desire to move forward is really strong. As painful as giving up the P and lenses might be today, reacquring a P kit in the future would heal that wound. No, it wouldn't be "the same", but then her life won't be the same, the river will have flowed and sticking a toe in will be a new adventure, not an old one.
Stephanie Brim
08-16-2006, 19:25
This P is special to me because it was someone here who was good enough to get it to me. It was the first interchangable lens rangefinder I had and it was the best camera I've ever gotten my hands on. I took photos of my friend's son with the camera and planned to take photos of their new baby with it as well. I also planned to never let it out of my own hands. I think I've just finally realized how badly I need to get out of this town and set off on my own.
And about the PSP. I paid only about $60 for it because I traded in almost every other gaming-related thing I owned to get it. I could get a decent return on my investment if I sold it, but it's my only gaming system. I have a few other cameras and I'm getting more and more into the older, more interesting ones such as my Argus C3 and my Ansco Speedex. I think I need to play around for a while with those and my Canonet.
And I also do plan to eventually get the camera back. I'd like to always have a Canon P in my bag regardless of what other bodies I buy down the road.
I have to point out that by the time you're back in the market for one, replacing your Canon P probably will cost a lot more than you paid for the one you have now.
On the other hand, good cars come on the market all the time, and by the time you have your license, you may have found another one you like even better.
Stephanie Brim
08-16-2006, 19:43
True.
I don't think I'll be able to sell it. It holds too much value to me. The car is going to have to wait...unfortunately. Even if it is the wrong decision...I love the camera WAY too much.
And besides...I still have a roll in the thing with fair pictures on it.
Follow your instinct. No one can make the decision but you, and everyone should support you.
Stephanie Brim
08-16-2006, 20:23
Here's the cycle I'm going through. I love the camera, but I really need the car. I love taking photos, but there really isn't much to take photos of here (other than some *really* high corn...and I mean YOWZA) and a car could afford me a way to get somewhere to shoot better photos. It would also afford me a better job than I could get otherwise (there are about two restaurants here in town) which would consequently mean that I could buy more photo equipment. The problem is that it wouldn't be THIS photo equipment that I love so much...and it goes back around.
I wouldn't be cameraless without it, but I wouldn't have the one camera that I loved above all the others anymore.
But yeah, this is why it's a tough decision.
Bear in mind this is coming from a video game geek. Lose the PSP, keep the camera. Just ask yourself, will a PSP or a Canon P capture better memories?
BillBingham2
08-16-2006, 21:21
Stephanie,
This is MHO, you milage may vary.
The clock on the PSP is ticking, dump it, it is loosing value.
I would find temp homes for everything but the P and one lens.
Get your license and the car ASAP.
There are lots of folks here who if you are willing to sell at very reasonable prices great stuff and who knows, you might find you like Nikon S cameras better, or Leicas.
Your camera can ground you and provide you with many hours of fun than a PSP. You create something with you P, on the PSP you are working through someone elses creation.
The cameras other than the P I do not think will bring you that much money. Get your license and then go to a credit union. They used to give people loans and then you keep the money and pay it back over a period of say six months. Then go for the car loan if you can not get your father to co-sign.
You get a car and license and I will give you a Jupiter-12. It should do very well on your P.
Keep your camera stuff, it means more to you than cash. You don't need to sell stuff every time you run out of money. You can try to finance the car purchase through work, credit, parents possibly. Keep the idea in your head that you want to keep buying stuff, and you will soon be on the road to making money. Remember in the end you want a house full of furniture, a garage full of cars, a shelf full of cameras, and lots of other stuff. You won't get there buying and selling used camera equipment. You want to develop a lifestyle where you can keep a nice camera and not get it stolen.
Remember a car is like a huge sink hole that you keep shovelling money into, so you needs lots of it to catch up and keep ahead of things. I am not trying to make light of your situation. My daughter is in a similar position to you, struggling to upgrade her education, working intermittently, car trouble most of the time, but she is happy and is confident things will work out well. :)
I agree with most others.. cameras are a luxury. You don't need a camera to survive. You do need a job however. Sell whatever you need to fork up the downpayment.. There are plenty of Canon Ps out there to buy later on.
I would be very hesitant before I take a loan. Maybe it's got something to do with American consumption culture being different from European, but as long as I can avoid being in debt I'll try to do so. If you take a loan, try to get it from family instead of a bank if that is an option at all. Families don't take interest, and they don't spoil your credit record if you miss a deadline on repayment.
It makes no sense at all to buy a (=this) car before you have a license.
Cars are on sale everywhere all the time. You don't need this car, even though it may be nice. Wait until you've got your license, and possibly your monetary situation will have changed somewhat till then.
I'd try to keep the Canon P if possible; maybe not all the lenses, as Russian lenses are really an ubiquitous commodity, but the body. I started off with a Canon AE-1P. I haven't been using it all that much over the last six months or so, but it would probably be the last camera I sell. If you have to sell cameras, start with some others and don't put them on eBay, instead put them here or on photo.net where you can get a decent price.
Philipp
Now I'm thinking that used camera prices will still go down, and there may be lots of cheap leica M cameras available once the M8 is being sold.
Good luck with your descision, Steph!
I think you need a better plan. A set of brakes or a starter motor on the Honda will cost more than the Canon or the PSP. You're playing with scared money. I don't know anything about you, your level of education, or what you have in mind to do. I do know that I made my son put himself on the FDNY and NYPD list as a "safety net", if his plans don't pan out. That safety net will give him health benefits, 20 yr retirement, line of duty injury coverage, and a 75k+ salary. A change in venue may be in order, but not without a strategy. Just my opinion. Stu
BJ Bignell
08-17-2006, 07:18
I agree with Joe on this one: Sell everything and get a car, then work your ass off to earn money to buy the Canon and/or PSP back. All of your material possessions will become immaterial if you are not happy with your life.
However, I do think you should get your license before you spend a cent on any car. Owning a car when you don't have a license would be a waste of money.
Also, as others have mentioned, don't get too attached to the idea of buying this particular car. A little patience will go a long way when buying cars; you might find something else you'd like to drive, for a considerably lower price.
Good luck!
I'm with BJ on this one. Once you can build upon the income, material items become second thoughts. If you get a chance, find the book, "richest man in babylon" -- good read.
Jano
Sell everything, get a job first. That's the only important thing right now.
You won't be happy stuck with your P.
Work and live to learn, do not live to buy you a camera ;)
Plus, you can make photos with everything cheaper (XA, Canonet, etc.).
Budget used cars are crap, Nice cameras are treasures. Have you been promised a job in the town you'd be driving to? How much difference is there in the pay for the job you could land in your own town, as opposed the job you could land in the town you'd have to drive to? I bet if you figure out the total cost of car ownership, the job you'd have to drive to wouldn't pay enough more that you'd really come out ahead. Insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, parking, tickets...cars are damn expensive, and you never feel like you really got your money's worth. AAA (American Automobile Association) estimates the true cost of ownership at fifty-two cents per mile. As a rough estimate then, a fifty mile round trip for a days work costs nearly fifteen bucks. So, for an eight hour shift, you'd need to be earning about two bucks more per hour to begin to come out ahead. Do you really want to get on that losing treadmill? Here's some websites to check out...
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2006/05/31/the-true-cost-of-car-ownership/
http://www.piercetransit.org/rideshare/costs.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html
The idea that you could take better pictures in another location is a comforting myth, but I'm sure you could find a ride every now and then to test that theory, especially if you're willing to pay gas. The general American mindset is that a car is a neccesity, but that will start changing when gas goes over four bucks a gallon, and I see nothing in the world political situation, or in the actual resources, indicating that gas will not continue to go up in price. That camera you like so much would probably cover the expense of replacing the alternator, or fixing a radiator/cooling problem, or some other "not-too-expensive-as-cars-go" repair. Understanding that you'd like to leave the town you are in, I'd consider alternative solutions...troll for a job on the internet in ANY city, and relocate for a total new experience...and get housing close to the new job in the new city. Do you have any relatives with whom you could stay for awhile? Visit their city and look for a job, stay with them for a month, and then get your own place. How about finding the job first, in the town that is twenty-five miles away, and then renting a place near the job. You'd have a job, and your own house. That'd probably feel pretty liberating.
The monetary value of the camera is diddly-squat in terms of real world expenses, and I'd hate to see you sell something you love just to cover a half-years car insurance premium, for example.
Running costs (gas, insurance and maintenance) on a car for a year could be be more than the price you'll get for the camera. I'd suggest:
1 Get a job that goes some way at least to meeting your immediate ambitions. Ride buses to interviews if no other choice possible;
2 Get a bike or motor-scooter if you need wheels to get to work, or move nearer your place of employment;
3 Get a license to drive;
4 Buy a car when you can afford it. Used cars are always available. Sell cameras that you use only as a last resort.
Just my 2 cents.
photogdave
08-17-2006, 11:43
Is the monetary value of your gear really going to go that far towards the purchase of a car? If you don't get a job straight away how will you afford gas, insurance, maintenance etc.? Not to be a downer, but you could end up with a car you can't afford to drive and no camera either.
Don't make a hasty decision. If it was me, I would keep my camera and move closer to the nearest city where there is a wider availability of jobs that you don't have to drive to. Used cars are money pits - even Hondas!
Waitressing at an upscale place can bring in $300 day tips. Even a medium scale premise will bring in $100 day tips. I've never been to Vegas but they probably pay more. You can make so much money working you should not need to sell your stuff. Ride the bus for a year and you can buy a new car with cash.
Even if your going to school to begin a career, you could really use the money that servers make. There are trade apprenticeships, offices, factories, you name it, that pay good money, but not as good as serving. :)
Carrotblog
08-17-2006, 13:20
Hmmm.
Hard challenge.
Why don't you join a nunnery and save on accommodation costs for the summer?
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=5734
Then you can keep your camera and - ohh. Wrong link:
http://www.rinpoche.com/nuns.html
As I was saying - then you can join the nunnery, and travel places in your mind where a Civic car can't take you. Think of the images in your mind from such a rich experience!
xoxoxox
Miffy
http://carrotblog.livejournal.com
Budget used cars are crap, Nice cameras are treasures. Have you been promised a job in the town you'd be driving to? How much difference is there in the pay for the job you could land in your own town, as opposed the job you could land in the town you'd have to drive to? I bet if you figure out the total cost of car ownership, the job you'd have to drive to wouldn't pay enough more that you'd really come out ahead. Insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, parking, tickets...cars are damn expensive, and you never feel like you really got your money's worth. AAA (American Automobile Association) estimates the true cost of ownership at fifty-two cents per mile. As a rough estimate then, a fifty mile round trip for a days work costs nearly fifteen bucks. So, for an eight hour shift, you'd need to be earning about two bucks more per hour to begin to come out ahead. Do you really want to get on that losing treadmill? Here's some websites to check out...
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2006/05/31/the-true-cost-of-car-ownership/
http://www.piercetransit.org/rideshare/costs.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html
The idea that you could take better pictures in another location is a comforting myth, but I'm sure you could find a ride every now and then to test that theory, especially if you're willing to pay gas. The general American mindset is that a car is a neccesity, but that will start changing when gas goes over four bucks a gallon, and I see nothing in the world political situation, or in the actual resources, indicating that gas will not continue to go up in price. That camera you like so much would probably cover the expense of replacing the alternator, or fixing a radiator/cooling problem, or some other "not-too-expensive-as-cars-go" repair. Understanding that you'd like to leave the town you are in, I'd consider alternative solutions...troll for a job on the internet in ANY city, and relocate for a total new experience...and get housing close to the new job in the new city. Do you have any relatives with whom you could stay for awhile? Visit their city and look for a job, stay with them for a month, and then get your own place. How about finding the job first, in the town that is twenty-five miles away, and then renting a place near the job. You'd have a job, and your own house. That'd probably feel pretty liberating.
The monetary value of the camera is diddly-squat in terms of real world expenses, and I'd hate to see you sell something you love just to cover a half-years car insurance premium, for example.
This IS the hard truth of reality. It's not pretty, but it is the way it is.
Wayne R. Scott
08-17-2006, 14:40
My advice Steph, you should marry some one with money. You can marry more money in five minutes than you can earn in a life time.
Wayne
Unfortunately I'm already married, and I don't have that much money. :)
(Plus, Melanie is second in line.)
I just looked on ebay and a canon P went for $263. For that kind of money why not save up for a month and keep the camera? I could understand if it was an M7 but just don't see how keeping or selling this camera is going to radically change your financial situation.
lmd91343
08-17-2006, 18:50
Stephanie,
The decision is not as hard as you think it is. Your posts show that you've come to a conclusion.
Independence, mobility, and security are important. At your age, you are obviously seeing that now. However, don't forget the journey is important. If you can't enjoy life and have fun on the way, spend a couple more months with your parents before you take that next step.
From a financial perspective, it is silly to buy a car, that must be maintained and insured before you can even drive it! Get your license first. Don't be enamoured with any one car. They degrade and depreciate quickly. Rethink the age of the car you are getting. That old of a car you spoke of will require more maintenance and have less safety features than a newer one. Take a male friend or relative shopping with you (it is a sexist world).
The journey on the way requires that the "P" and a lens or two be kept. It helps keep you happy and creative. The monetary value obtained from selling the "P" would not cover a month of the car's cost (insurance, upkeep, depreciation) a brake job or a month's rent of an apartment.
1) save up some money at home (six months rent and food)
2) don't buy a car until you can afford it and the upkeep
3) don't jump (move) until you see a place to land
4) keep the camera for your own sanity.
You don't have a plan and resources. You need those before you jump. You only have a wish list.
Stephanie Brim
08-17-2006, 19:26
For now I'm keeping one camera and letting one go. The one I'm letting go will not net me much money at all, but it'll give me the money for my boyfriend's gas taking me over and back to Fort Dodge while I'm waiting on a better job than the one I have. Interestingly enough, I'm becoming more and more interested in pinhole photography since I fashioned one out of two cameras...Frankenpinhole. But hell, the thing works, shoots 35mm film, and doesn't run up my budget. The eerie, low sharpness of some photos is really neat.
BillBingham2
08-18-2006, 05:34
GET YOUR LICENSE!!!! B2 (;->
For what it's worth for folks who do not know Iowa, there are very few (I know of none) public transportation options our side of within big cities. While large cities in the US (e.g. NYC, Chicago, SF) have reasonably good public transportation systems several large US companies made sure small ones died long ago (so they could sell more cars and buses).
Also, in some places good used cars (that get good milage) do not come along too often either.
B2 (;->
Al Patterson
08-18-2006, 19:16
GET YOUR LICENSE!!!! B2 (;->
For what it's worth for folks who do not know Iowa, there are very few (I know of none) public transportation options our side of within big cities.
B2 (;->
You got that right! I'm used to living in Delaware, where I'm 20 minutes from the Philly airport, 10 minutes from SEPTA regional rail, 15 minutes from Amtrak, and a couple hundred yards walk from a bus line. Now, I'm working in Dayton Ohio area, and no Amtrak, no regional rail, few busses, etc. The girl NEEDS a car. This isn't some whining kid wanting a BMW, it's someone trying to get out of being trapped in the middle of nowhere...
But, sell the P last, even though you could always buy one later...
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