View Full Version : Newbie Advice.
Hey everyone,
Im about to make the leap into the world of range finders due to my love for street photography, but however I cannot afford my M^ with 50mm f1.0 Nocti ;) So Im looking for an alternative, and the russian gear seems to be very good.
However with such a range Im kinda lost as to which would be best for me.
SO Im asking the pros here ;)
What camera should I choose.
Mostly Black And White Street Photography.
CHeers in advance.
Jay from Ireland
Andrew Touchon
06-10-2006, 13:21
Hey everyone,
Im about to make the leap into the world of range finders due to my love for street photography, but however I cannot afford my M^ with 50mm f1.0 Nocti ;) So Im looking for an alternative, and the russian gear seems to be very good.
However with such a range Im kinda lost as to which would be best for me.
SO Im asking the pros here ;)
What camera should I choose.
Mostly Black And White Street Photography.
CHeers in advance.
Jay from Ireland
If your concern is low light shooting why not consider the CV 35mm 1.2 Nokton ? Since it's M mount , you have a wide choice of bodies to mount it on.
Zorki 6 for what you want to do, with a Jupiter 8 and a Jupiter 12. The Z6 has a good viewfinder,lever wind, is small, opening back and its just plain flat a good camera............
So Zorki 6? Nice and cheap too.
The jupiter 8 is only an f2, would there be any faster alternatives for that body? If there was something in the 1.4 range even if i had to pay a bit more?
Looking at the Jupiter 3 lens it seems like it would be nice, f1.5, is there many drawbacks to a J3?
And Im not really going for low light stuff, I just like the fast street photo style, ala Chris Weeks etc.
So Zorki 6? Nice and cheap too.
The jupiter 8 is only an f2, would there be any faster alternatives for that body? If there was something in the 1.4 range even if i had to pay a bit more?
Indeed MoTR - the Jupiter 3 at f1.5. The problem is that although capable of superb results, they had very quirky quality control and often require adjustment.
Remember that the lack of a reflex box means rangefinders are much more stable at longer shutter speeds than SLRs: you can handhold in situations you wouldn't have dared to! That extra half stop isn't essential!
Cheers, Ian
I think the fastest FSU lens you're likely to find is the 1.5 Jupiter 3. I've heard it's a great lens if you can find a good one. Good ones are rare, especially in ltm, and the Jupiter 3 tends to be one of the most expensive FSU lenses.
I'd recommend a good Kiev 2a or 4a with the Jupiter 8 (3 if you can find one) and/or a Jupiter 12. The Helios 103 is 1.8 and has a good reputation. Bear in mind that FSU cameras tend to require more maintenance than what you might be used to. Light leaks and DIY adjustments seem to come with the territory. If you're adverse to that, I'd strongly recommend a Bessa R. A nice body, and you can use most Soviet ltm lenses with it.
Hehe ^^^ Hmmm what I might do is pick up the Jupiter 8 and keep an eye out for a proven Jupiter 3 that is known to be working ok.
And the Zorki 6 does seem like a very nice cam. Good price too at my student income ;)
I think the fastest FSU lens you're likely to find is the 1.5 Jupiter 3. I've heard it's a great lens if you can find a good one. Good ones are rare, especially in ltm, and the Jupiter 3 tends to be one of the most expensive FSU lenses.
I'd recommend a good Kiev 2a or 4a with the Jupiter 8 (3 if you can find one) and/or a Jupiter 12. The Helios 103 is 1.8 and has a good reputation. Bear in mind that FSU cameras tend to require more maintenance than what you might be used to. Light leaks and DIY adjustments seem to come with the territory. If you're adverse to that, I'd strongly recommend a Bessa R. A nice body, and you can use most Soviet ltm lenses with it.
Yeah no I wouldnt mind getting down inside, in fact itd be a welcome break from the digital world of sending everything away the min it breaks!
Hmmm only thing being the Kievs seem to be a bit more expensive from what I can see.
I think that if you're into fast street photography Dave's choice - a Jupiter 12 (35mm) - would be ideal. With a fast film you'll have no real problems, there's decent depth of field for scale focussing and pretty much any body will do as you'll need an accessory finder. The Zorki 6 is a very usable choice, though the FED 2 handles very well IMHO.
Cheers, Ian
Hi Jay - welcome to the FSU corner. What's been suggested so far is excellent. The Zorki 4k is also very useable and likeable and takes Leica screw mount lenses. A reaonable one can be had for little money. I would suggest buying one of the suggestions and trying it. You'll end up owning the complete set sooner or later. May I suggest that you also go out and buy a nice cupboard to store all the gear you will soon own? You'll be glad you did!
Let us know what you buy and post some pictures. All of us here will heartily endorse Oleg Khalyavin as a man to buy from.
Teehe definitly one of the most friendly forumsIve visited ;)
I think Ill go with a Zorki 6 and A Jupiter 8 to start and look out for a good Jupiter 3.
Ill report back with my shots and my final purchases.
And yes Id say its something u can really get causght into, just lucky I dont have the money for a lecia ;)
Let us know what you buy and post some pictures. All of us here will heartily endorse Oleg Khalyavin as a man to buy from.
That's absolutely right: he has a reputation second to none. You can get to his site directly by pressing the "Russian Cameras" cool link on the home page. Remember that his pictures show his cameras before he works on them, so some can look a bit rough!
Ian
That's absolutely right: he has a reputation second to none. You can get to his site directly by pressing the "Russian Cameras" cool link on the home page. Remember that his pictures show his cameras before he works on them, so some can look a bit rough!
Ian
Ians spot on,I recieved a Fed2d yesterday from Oleg.It didn't look like the same camera I ordered,and ohhh so smooth.Now if he only had a Zorki 3m,I've got bad GAS
It depends upon your concept of street photography. If you are talking about buildings and monuments, any system Soviet camera goes.
If you are talking about people, then no Russian RF is up to the job for being too slow to manipulate in general, and specially regarding all time dancing people. Better you find either an autoexposure fixed lens Japanese camera, like the Yashica GSN, for the same price, or the more pricey GX yet smaller and lighter, or you climb upwards in price towards something else.
"My 2 cents"
Ruben
PS: As you see from my avatar, I am a Soviet RFs fan, from the Kiev breed.
no Russian RF is up to the job for being too slow to manipulate. Better you find either an autoexposure fixed lens Japanese camera, like the Yashica GSN, for the same price, or you climb upwards in price towards something else.
TREASON!
Ruben! You Bukharinite Saboteur! The Workers of the World Stand aghast at your perfidious machinations!
Comrades! Do not heed the siren song of this wicked Yashicaite Class Enemy, diabolical tool of the International Pentax Cyclops!
TREASON!
Ruben! You Bukharinite Saboteur! The Workers of the World Stand aghast at your perfidious machinations!
Comrades! Do not heed the siren song of this wicked Yashicaite Class Enemy, diabolical tool of the Pentax Cyclops!
My attorney issued me a data sheet with the following evidence:
a) my avatar is still the same, and not by accident.
b) http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24640
c) Kievs are for love, if you need to marry better go practical.
d) & e) are kept in secrecy by now.
Cheers,
Ruben
:angel:
Comrade Ruben!
You Have Brought Shame On Your Avatar! Her Hot Tears Flow Like The Waters Of Our Beloved Volga!
Ian!
captainslack
06-10-2006, 16:08
While I don't want to be hauled in front of the Politburo, :D I would recommend you look at the Canonet QL-17 GIII before you make any purchases. It's got everything you need apart from interchangable lenses: fast lenses (f/1.7), wind lever, super quiet shutter (quieter than my Leica IIf, in fact), and shutter priority. Not to mention of the sharpest lenses around.
clarence
06-10-2006, 16:43
It depends upon your concept of street photography. If you are talking about buildings and monuments, any system Soviet camera goes.
If you are talking about people, then no Russian RF is up to the job for being too slow to manipulate in general, and specially regarding all time dancing people.
I would disagree: Not if you have a wide angle lens. I've been using a Cosina-Voigtlaender 25mm lens (and a homemade viewfinder) on my FED-2 for the past few months and just shooting it from waist level on the street or quickly raising it to my eye. Focusing is all done with hyperfocal distance, so I hardly adjust the focus, aperture or shutter speeds. Results have been rather consistently good. The same could be done with a Jupiter-12 35mm lens or an Orion-15 28m lens.
Clarence
Now if he only had a Zorki 3m,I've got bad GAS.Well built, comfortable to handle, big VF, all the speeds... that will definately be worth your wait. My Olegified 3M is scha-weeeet! Good luck!
Comrade Ruben!
You Have Brought Shame On Your Avatar! Her Hot Tears Flow Like The Waters Of Our Beloved Volga!
Ian!
Well, upon such insistance I can retract a bit and say that upon looking at the thread of MF street photography, in case MoTR is going for street photography by his free time, then the Kievs may suit, specially with a Sekonic small & quick digi like the 308B
Cheers,
Ruben
Well, upon such insistance I can retract a bit and say that upon looking at the thread of MF street photography, in case MoTR is going for street photography by his free time, then the Kievs may suit, specially with a Sekonic small digi like the 308B
Cheers,
Ruben
Don't tell anyone comrade,but I am currently awaiting the arrival of a Lynx 14! Juxt between you and me, you understand?
Cheers, Ian
Dear Ian, why I feel lately you are becoming rather jumpie ?
Dear Ian, why I feel lately you are becoming rather jumpie ?
Sorry Dear Ruben - just British humour! But I am looking forward to that Lynx!
Cheers, Ian!
Don't tell anyone comrade,but I am currently awaiting the arrival of a Lynx 14! Juxt between you and me, you understand?
Cheers, Ian
Therefore, through me, you were talking to yourself ?
Therefore, through me, you were talking to yourself ?
I was satirising my devotion to FSU cameras at a time when I'm buying cameras from elswhere. My "outrage" was intended to be so absurd that it signified the exact opposite of what it appeared to say. It was also a spoof on the absurdities of Soviet rhetoric. Above all it was simply meant to be affectionate and funny :D
Perhaps these things don't work so well on the web!
All the very best, Ian
Sorry Dear Ruben - just British humour! But I am looking forward to that Lynx!
Cheers, Ian!
Don't loose that humor for the aftermath of a possible game Argentina-UK...
Don't loose that humor for the aftermath of a possible game Argentina-UK...
I don't want to upset you, dear boy!
.... My "outrage" was intended to be so absurd that it signified the exact opposite of what it appeared to say.All the very best, Ian
Something like those spionage thrillers from Ludlum & co, in which the agent is a double agent, hidding another agent in himself, and doubting who is he indeed.
Something like those spionage thrillers from Ludlum & co, in which the agent is a double agent, hidding another agent in himself, and doubting who is he indeed.
Me to a Tee!
Me to a Tee!
Do you understand now why we both love Soviet RFs ?
Do you understand now why we both love Soviet RFs ?
I always did!
I always did!
No, I meant the link between us two
Oh, I see you keep silent now, so better you run now and cover the face of that girl, just in case MI5 of our Mossad, do not misunderstand us, assuming that we are what we are not, behing what we are indeed.
Oh, I see you keep silent now, so better you run now and cover the face of that girl, just in case MI5 of our Mossad, do not misunderstand us, assuming that we are what we are not, behing what we are indeed.
No Ruben - My computer crashed! I blame the dwarves of the Pentagon!
I think we should do the rest of this in code!
No Ruben - My computer crashed! I blame the dwarves of the Pentagon!
I think we should do the rest of this in code!
I agree, specially if we don't want the Pentagon crash our RFF !
BTW, look at the window now for any suspected van with strange anthena.
And the rest, fellow members, was a mysterious silence!
No Ruben - My computer crashed! I blame the dwarves of the Pentagon!
I think we should do the rest of this in code!
My wife is convinced that you lot (Reagan, Ruben, Ian etc) and my outstanding friend Kevin Kalsbeek from California are all cover names for a huge CIA department. Since 1999, your team has been trying to get me to say something on a forum that will warrant a trip to Camp X Ray. Kevin and I tried putting key words in our conversations that might upset the CIA so many of our recent exchanges have been about plans to invade Canada armed only with some WWII rifles and a few Zorkis.
Fortunately, Bill Mattocks, the leader of the CIA spy team, has been wise enough to hold back on acting to see how many more people he can ensnare in his evil web of espionage. But have you noticed that every time you go out these days you are followed by a helicopter?
.....Fortunately, Bill Mattocks, the leader of the CIA spy team, has ..........
Wrong! He is working for SD-6, it is written on his face. Aren't you following the Delete War ?
Hi Ruben - haven't seen that show but I assume there's a lot of spying and pretending to be someone else. It sounds good.
Any rangefinders?
Any rangefinders?
Oh yes ! look right here. It's a very prived page, therefore be carefull - you can never know who is at the other side of the line.
http://abc.go.com/primetime/alias/profiles/cia_bristows.html
...Now if he only had a Zorki 3m,I've got bad GAS
Well, I know he's got one at least. But that would be one that I've sent to him for re-education. And, sorry, no I'm not parting with it. :D
My personal favorites in FSU cameras, Jay, are:
Zorki 3m--the best VF (I think) and, significantly(once again: to me), full speed range and strap lugs.
Kiev 4a(the meterless camera)--arguably better build quality(but thats a bit of a crap shoot; I certainly got lucky with this one), very good RF/VF, and once again full speeds(though I seriously doubt that the 1/1250 speed really is) and strap lugs.
Those two cameras are also very easy on the eyes--I think they are the two prettiest FSU cameras.
And one other camera that no one's mentioned yet:
The FED5 camera(s). Ugly as heck and no strap lugs BUT the two I own work every time(so far...) and they have an uncoupled light meter which is OK for print film and has a very handy "feature": if it's too dark to read the meter, you know the meter isn't reading either--not very good for available dark but ok as a sanity check for sunny 16 shooting. And very cheap. And there are still some(lots maybe?) new old stock around.
Just my two cents worth on FSU cameras.
Welcome aboard, Jay!
Rob
My wife is convinced that you lot (Reagan, Ruben, Ian etc) and my outstanding friend Kevin Kalsbeek from California are all cover names for a huge CIA department. . . But have you noticed that every time you go out these days you are followed by a helicopter?Yes, yes. We're aware of your wife's concerns. Soon, she too will notice the helicopters. But her reports of such will only be a ploy, a dodge. SHE, in fact, is CIA in cahoots with Mattox working in hopes of turning your faith from the good Comrades, Reagan, Ruben, Ian and others.
Comrades! everything is clear now... I've found my tinfoil helmet!
Hehe what have I started!! Ok I found someone selling a Zorki 6 already with a jupiter 3 on it that he "claims" is in good condition so Im gonna get that, see if I happy with the lens if not we'll work from there.
As to the conspiracy, they usually use vans with unusual license plates and considering the month look out for the vans with 666 on them, CIA for sure ;)
shutterflower
06-12-2006, 03:22
You want a streetable camera but can't afford a Leica?
Voigtlander makes nice cameras - as long as you get one without quality control problems. That's not too hard. R3A + 40 Nokton would be a good CV choice.
There are many decent FSU options, but I have never been very pleased with the overall FSU experience - just an opinion. Many users here produce very nice work with these cameras.
I want better than Leica image quality, so I shoot medium format. Bronica RF645, Mamiya 6, Plaubel Makina 67. These cameras will give you amazing image quality for about the price of one Leica lens. Or less.
The Canonet GIII and the Yashica GSN series are also very nice - fixed lens - but fast and well made.
Medium Format is outta the question, Im a very poor student ;)
The cheapest price on the R3a I can find seems to be in the 600dollar mark ;) Again my entire budget for an FSU will be bout 100dollars ;) They do look very nice tho.
rolleistef
06-12-2006, 05:13
I tell you, take a Kiev, 2a or 4a; I own a IIIA and it's just wonderful. Very quiet, sturdy built, big RF, got nice lenses.
If you want to DIY your camera, you'd better take a Zorki, it's much safer.
Otherwise, you can get a Rolleicord, which will give you far better pics than even a Leica (shoot me if you want, M supporters!), for about 100-120$.
And people will be coming and asking you how you got that unusual camera, and start chattering....
I tell you, take a Kiev, 2a or 4a; I own a IIIA and it's just wonderful. Very quiet, sturdy built, big RF, got nice lenses.
....
And I repeat, If you have not enough money to include a digi meter, then no Soviet RF at all, but an old and good fixed lens Yashica (GSN GTN GX).
Cheers,
Ruben
Kim Coxon
06-12-2006, 05:28
Good advice IMHO but whats wrong with the Konica S2 or the Canons? :D :D :D
Kim
And I repeat, If you have not enough money to include a digi meter, then no Soviet RF at all, but an old and good fixed lens Yashica (GSN GTN GX).
Cheers,
Ruben
Good advice IMHO but whats wrong with the Konica S2 or the Canons? :D :D :D
Kim
I have heard that the Konica S2 meter is rather slow, mine unoperative. If it is not then it would be my first choice due to its focusing handle.
Canon: which ? The ql gIII may be, but the f/stop and speed rings are a bit rough to operate quicly vis a vis all abovementioned cameras. About older canons I am just ignorant. Provided they have autoparallax compensation and within-the-range price, then I would look after them.
Kim Coxon
06-12-2006, 05:57
I haven't had a problem with the speed of the S2 meter but I haven't tried one of the later Yash's. Big advantage is that you can still get readings in manual. The early Canons are about the same size as the S2 but still suffer from the same meter problem that the later small ones do in that it only works on Auto.
Kim
I have heard that the Konica S2 meter is rather slow, mine unoperative. If it is not then it would be my first choice due to its focusing handle.
Canon: which ? The ql gIII may be, but the f/stop and speed rings are a bit rough to operate quicly vis a vis all abovementioned cameras. About older canons I am just ignorant. Provided they have autoparallax compensation and within-the-range price, then I would look after them.
I tell you, take a Kiev, 2a or 4a; I own a IIIA and it's just wonderful. Very quiet, sturdy built, big RF, got nice lenses.
If you want to DIY your camera, you'd better take a Zorki, it's much safer.
Otherwise, you can get a Rolleicord, which will give you far better pics than even a Leica (shoot me if you want, M supporters!), for about 100-120$.
And people will be coming and asking you how you got that unusual camera, and start chattering....
Whicle theu Rollei's are nice the extra cost associated with developing runs them away.
comp_wiz101
06-13-2006, 20:23
Yes, when I need uber-high quality I use a Rolleiflex SLX MF SLR... which costs a whole lot more for film than the Zorkis!
Zorkis and Feds are a great way to get into rangefinderdom... but for me I would say this with one condition: only if you feel up to learning a bit of camera repair.
I know that a lot of RFF users also recommend fixed-lens Yashica rangefinders as well. To be fair, I have purchased one in black enamel (Electro 35) that worked great. On the other hand, I purchased three and used parts from all of them to make one working camera (Great practice!). I like the Yashica Electro 35 Cameras, but like more control on my cameras. If you are going for speed though, the auto exposure can be helpful.
Out of the models I have, the Zorki 3 & 4K are tied, as far as recommending them to anyone. The Zorki 4K needed Rangefinder alignment, a minor CLA, and I replaced the worn Silkscreening on the shutter speed dial with one I made on the computer. The Zorki 3 (Haven't used a 3M) needed a CLA and RF adjust. It has a nice fit and finish for a FSU camera, looks quite nice, has engraved shutter speeds and a great easy-to-use 1:1 Viewfinder.
Both have slow speeds down to 1 Second, top speeds of 1/1000, and a removeable back
The Zorki C runs from 1/25 to 1/500 and looks like a flat-topped leica III clone. It fits well in the pocket and uses a seperate rangefinder from its built in 50mm viewfinder.
Lenses in Leica Threa Mount (LTM) are numerous and easy to find on Ebay.
Thus far I have not mentioned Kievs... because I don't own one. I'll leave that to the experts :)
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