Latest Update on Leica M8 or Digital M

[JT]

This is the latest info I have about the upcoming M8.

With the M8 moving forward, all new lenses starting in Germany next month will have an electronic contact which tells the camera which frame lines to use. Existing lenses can have the contacts added for 125.00 per lens. New non gray market lenses purchased since January of this year will be upgraded for free in NJ. NJ has more electronic contacts on order than the entire world due to expected demand for the product.

Thas all I know for now from my birds in the N.E :D

[ch1]

This is the latest info I have about the upcoming M8.

With the M8 moving forward, all new lenses starting in Germany next month will have an electronic contact which tells the camera which frame lines to use. Existing lenses can have the contacts added for 125.00 per lens. New non gray market lenses purchased since January of this year will be upgraded for free in NJ. NJ has more electronic contacts on order than the entire world due to expected demand for the product.

Thas all I know for now from my birds in the N.E :D

Sounds like SOOL for ZM and other non-Leitz M-mount lenses for the M8?

[Flinor]

Also for those of us who have a lot of LTM lenses that we like to use with adaptors.

[Steve B]

Sounds like SOOL for ZM and other non-Leitz M-mount lenses for the M8?
I sure hope they have a manual function so that even if the framelines don't automatically appear one can at least set them manually. I think it would be a shame not to be able to use all the wonderful and less expensive lenses out there. Especially since I don't have any Leitz glass and $5K is a bit above my level of affordability these days already without having to buy new lenses as well. I'll keep dreaming though.

[ch1]

Sounds like Leica now playing tech-catch-up.

In the Japanese SLR/DSLR world (e.g. Nikon - which I am most familiar with) the latter day AF film-based lenses for SLRs have the electronic pickups tnat enable compatibility with dSLRs (although some w/o full data capture).

This is one of the strengths of the D200 which has "enhanced" backward compatibility.

Leica now faces the dilemma of melding the possibilities of electronic pick-up for data and AF purposes with a heretofore moribund lens mount technology.

I will be curious to see how they retrofit pre-digi Leitz M-mount lenses to enable all of the possible M8 capabilities.

Perhaps the M8 is more of a "split" than a "smooth transition" from the film-based models?

[sdai]

So we can declare the obsolescence of all M7s, MPs, MP 3s, and maybe several soon to be "last generation" ASPH lenses? ... that's fantastic! :D

[Fred]

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have to ask the question why do this when they have a proven mechanical method of frameline presentation?

Simple, it must be altering something else, like the outer sensitivity of the sensor perhaps to reduce vignetting from non linear light reception. This would save doing it in software. Would also mean exact FL of the lens is transferred for the wider lenses that need external VFs.

I'd be interested to see if anyone picks up the business for contact addition for screw adapters or even if its possible.

[Stephan]

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have to ask the question why do this when they have a proven mechanical method of frameline presentation?

Simple, it must be altering something else, like the outer sensitivity of the sensor perhaps to reduce vignetting from non linear light reception. This would save doing it in software. Would also mean exact FL of the lens is transferred for the wider lenses that need external VFs.

I'd be interested to see if anyone picks up the business for contact addition for screw adapters or even if its possible.



I wouldnt be surprised if this is just preparing the field for the digital M, if the lenses have electronic contacts information about focal length and aperture can be displayed in the digitl file header.

[Fred]

I wouldnt be surprised if this is just preparing the field for the digital M, if the lenses have electronic contacts information about focal length and aperture can be displayed in the digitl file header.


An intersting point, this would make sense for new lenses (and prices I guess) but as a modification to existing lenses I would have thought that this would cost more than the quoted price of 125. Maybe it depends on where they do the mods. In Europe it would be expensive fo sure.

I'll keep half an eye out for any more scaps of information. The RD-1 is looking a tad more interesting at the moment. :eek:

[VinceC]

If Leitz is charging $125 retail, then it's probably not a major modification, the electronic equivalent of DX coding on a roll of film. I recall reading articles a few years ago on how you could use metalic tape to create your own DX codiing on a non-DX roll of film, or change the DX pattern to push or pull film. In the 1970s, Nikon switched from the F to the AI mount, requiring older lenses to be refitted with a new aperture ring. They didn't charge much, but those of us with $25 lenses from pawnshops discovered that you could also just file the aperture ring at the correct location. Not elegant, but quite functional.

[RML]

Vince, I think you're hitting the nail on the head here. Now, where're my files...?

[jlw]

Warning: Speculation Ahead!

My guess about why they're going to the electronic contact is simply to reduce manufacturing costs. With electronic signaling of focal length, they can eliminate several delicate mechanical parts out of the RF module and select the frames via a stepper motor, or maybe even an LCD that would mask out the unused frames by turning opaque. (Now that would be a jolt for Leica purists!)

The electrical contact also would eliminate the need to precision-machine the lug on the lens that engages the correct frame line -- although this would mean that new lenses wouldn't be backward-compatible with older bodies, so they're probably not ready to jump that far.


Then again, they may be keeping the old mechanical system and adding the contact simply so the EXIF data for each frame can correctly indicate the focal length being used. As every Leica user knows, the mechanical system brings up most framelines in pairs, so it wouldn't be able to signal the EXIF which of the pair was used.

[rbraun]

I wonder how you code the Tri Elmar

[Harry Lime]

I think Stephan is on the right path. I would not be surprised if future M lenses are chipped to pass along aperture, focal length and focus distance to the camera. For one thing you would want that information in the header of the image file, but it will also tell the camera what framelines to display and how.

I doubt that a current lens with the upgrade could pass along anything more than its focal length, since there is no mechanical linkage to the aperture.

It also makes me wonder if the new digital M is generating a variable frameline mask, perhaps electronically.

Very interesting indeed.

[JT]

Passsing information about the lens will definetly be something needed down the line.

[John Camp]

I've been waiting breathlessly for the new M8 and in preparing for it, I've spent, mmmm ~ $14,000-$16,000 on lenses in the last 6-8 months, which I'm now happily using on an R-D1. If there is not a mechanical link to bring up framelines on the new M8, I'm going to be massively p.o.ed. But even as I write this, it occurs to me that it wouldn't make sense not to have at least that much backward compatibility -- it would mean that everybody with a full M system would be looking at a bunch of useless glass without paying $125 each to have them fixed...or in my case, almost $900 dollars. So the more faithful a user you were, the more heavily you'd be screwed.

Therefore: there IS a mechanical link, and the chip probably is just a way to provide exif information that you can't get without it. Exif is nice; on my Nikon I enjoyed having it both times I looked at it.

JC

[kbg32]

I wouldn't worry.

[jlw]

So the more faithful a user you were, the more heavily you'd be screwed.

And that would be different how...?

[shutterflower]

maybe all the gearheads will start dumping their M7s and MPs and I can pick one up for a decent price.

[willie_901]

Ocam'z Razor Hypothesis

1/ New Leitz lenses – i.e. those sold with the M8 initial release will be chipped. They will pass only the basic lens info (no focus/f data) using some sort of passive ROM or ROM-like device. This is a requirement of digital photogra;y market. Digital photographers expect and benefit from text data stored with the image.

2/ Old Leitz lenses can be chipped for use on the digital M. Un-chipped lenses will work as they do on the M-6 and M-7. The mechanical features of the M mount will be retained.

3/ In the future Leica will likely market lenses with more data transfer features. This generation of lenses will pass focus and aperture data. The mechanical features of the M mount will be retained.

willie

[Dave Matison]

So, how is William of "Ocam's" surname spelled?

[fgianni]

The more details get released the less attractive thiss M8 looks.
Electronic frame selection, what's next, electronic rangefinder, maybe with automatic setting of the lens at the correct distance? :D

[jlw]

So, how is William of "Ocam's" surname spelled?

"Occam" or "Ockham" -- see this link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor) Keep in mind that English spelling never was really standardized, until upstart colonial Noah Webster first published his "The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language" -- aka the blue-back speller -- in 1783.

[John Camp]

"Electronic frame selection, what's next, electronic rangefinder, maybe with automatic setting of the lens at the correct distance?"

Whoa! That'd be awesome!

JC

[plummerl]

Whoa, sounds like my Contax G2!
larry

[snaggs]

My guess is that it won't have an LCD on the back.. I'm happy with that, theyre just a distraction. At least then the camera will LOOK like a Leica.

Daniel.

[Avotius]

I think this camera should have a button/menu option for changing the framelines at will, some sort of electronic over ride/preveiw type thing. That would be super. I manual line selector would be welcome too but it would seem this camera is going to be more electronic then mechanical so what the heck eh?

[shutterflower]

My guess is that it won't have an LCD on the back.. I'm happy with that, theyre just a distraction. At least then the camera will LOOK like a Leica.

Daniel.


I would hope not to have any LCDs or other digital styling on the body at all. It should look like an M7. Better yet, like an MP. Maybe, if they want to, they can do what Epson did - only better - and put the LCD on the back on a swivel that when closed, looks like the normal back with only a slight mod for the mechanics. With a nice big LCD screen, that would not be a bad thing.

Bottom line : don't stray from the classic styling, or you'll lose a large chunk of your potential market (because those guys are Leicaphiles for a reason besides only the name . . . .most of them).

[sdai]

I guess Leica will offer the no-LCD option in their a-la-carte program ... or introduce it as a LHSA variation etc ... I would't mind shell out an extra 500 dollars ... in order to get LESS from them. :D

[ch1]

I've been waiting breathlessly for the new M8 and in preparing for it, I've spent, mmmm ~ $14,000-$16,000 on lenses in the last 6-8 months, which I'm now happily using on an R-D1. If there is not a mechanical link to bring up framelines on the new M8, I'm going to be massively p.o.ed. But even as I write this, it occurs to me that it wouldn't make sense not to have at least that much backward compatibility -- it would mean that everybody with a full M system would be looking at a bunch of useless glass without paying $125 each to have them fixed...or in my case, almost $900 dollars. So the more faithful a user you were, the more heavily you'd be screwed.

Therefore: there IS a mechanical link, and the chip probably is just a way to provide exif information that you can't get without it. Exif is nice; on my Nikon I enjoyed having it both times I looked at it.

JC

John,

I have a hard time being sympathetic on this. If you've been able to afford to spend b/w $14k-$16k on Leica lenses over the past year I hardly think a $900 aggregate cost for retrofitting is beyond your means.

We have users here who live in very strained financial situations and for whom we've pooled together funds and film donations so they can keep shooting.

Count your blessings, man. Count your blessings.

[Mark Norton]

There's little space to do anything inside the lenses and, with a cost of $125, I can't see them doing much more than replacing the lens mount, a few screws on most lenses. Maybe there will be sprung contacts on the face of the camera lens mount and a pattern of DX-style coded lands set into the rear of the lens mount. Maybe there will be a set of contacts around the lens throat like on a Nikon lens.

Either way, old and new camera and lenses have got to work together and I'd expect an element of future proofing to allow future developments to be incorporated into the lens mount design.

Leica's heritage - people using lenses decades old - is also its Achilles heel, they have to have a base-line solution for unmodified lenses.

I've bought 3 lenses in the last month thinking I'd be doing well. Of the three I bought (21, 35 lux, 50 lux), two are going back to Solms, the 50 focussing is too stiff and the 21 had cosmetic defects out of the box. The final inspection does not exclude, apparently, nicks in the black anodising and since they were "grey" imports, I'll end up paying for the contacts.

[J. Borger]

Confusing .... can somebody tell me if there will also be a way to select the framelines manual?
Because i really do not care AT ALL about electronic selection or passing lens info to the exif file.

[fgianni]

Whoa, sounds like my Contax G2!
larry

Exactly, a digital G2, only bigger.

[Mark Norton]

There's got to be a way of selecting the frames manually for older or uncoverted lenses. Depending on the frames they have, there may be a switch like the R-D1, a push pull lever replacing the existing one to toggle through the available ones or, worst, a menu item on the LCD.

Been looking at Leica Camera's patents and theres one which clearly relates to the eyepiece magnifier available for the M which describes the compromises of different viewfinder magnifications. Sadly, no more recent ones giving us any pointers as to what the M8 may have.

[RML]

Digital photographers expect and benefit from text data stored with the image.

Do digital photogs really expect that? And do they really benefit from it? How? I know which lens I have on my R-D1, or I can deduce it from the photo or the situation (I was there and I shot it, didn't I?). The R-D1 also doesn't pass on any information set on the lens itself. How would I benefit from having that info passed on to the camera? I never expected it would be passed on, just like it doesn't get passed on to the film in my Bessa R or Leica M2.

IMO, the whole idea is BS.

[Mark Norton]

I think JC was saying that tongue-in-cheek. He did say he's only looked at it twice.

I think an LCD screen is a certainty, no digital camera could be sold without it but we would not expect to have to use it to take pictures. Battery life is an issue, so you want to be able to work without it on.

There would have to be other indicators for the most commonly needed information on the camera at a glance, hopefully without having to switch on the LCD:

- Manual Shutter Speed + AE value set in the viewfinder
- Battery State
- Memory Capacity
- WB
- ISO
- Frame Line selected
- EV Compensation +/-
- Image Size/Quality

Leica will be hard pressed to come up with as neat a solution as the dials on an R-D1 for 4 of those items.

[matt fury]

Do digital photogs really expect that? And do they really benefit from it? How? I know which lens I have on my R-D1, or I can deduce it from the photo or the situation (I was there and I shot it, didn't I?). The R-D1 also doesn't pass on any information set on the lens itself. How would I benefit from having that info passed on to the camera? I never expected it would be passed on, just like it doesn't get passed on to the film in my Bessa R or Leica M2.

IMO, the whole idea is BS.

Sure, your M2 doesn't do it now, but if you ask me, it's one of the cooler benefits of having a digital camera. Things like shutter speed, lens, aperture, etc are useful to have, and you won't always remember exactly what you used. I'm not saying they'll be able to get complete EXIF data, especially on retrofitted lenses, but whatever they can get would be nice.

[ghost]

i bet leica will put af in the m9.

[Mark Norton]

How much.....?

[egpj]

If the M8 continues to come into focus like it is now then I think this thing will bomb out like the M5.

[TEZillman]

Since we're talking about a Leica, an LCD screen would undoubtedly be pulled from the bottom of the camera body! Just kidding ....

[Ben Z]

This is the latest info I have about the upcoming M8.

With the M8 moving forward, all new lenses starting in Germany next month will have an electronic contact which tells the camera which frame lines to use.

Thas all I know for now from my birds in the N.E :D


Did you get that from Christian? Because otherwise I would be very skeptical. I just looked over my lenses, and on my 90 Tele-Elmarit (the fat one) there isn't even a hair of space between the inside of the flange and the rangefinder cam, and there must be many other lenses likewise. On my rigid chrome 50 Cron, the flange has no attaching screws and seems to be one piece with the bottom ring of the lens (that has the infinity lock and the d-o-f scale. There are so many variations and permutations over the 50 yr history of M lenses, it would seem like very many lenses would be un-retrofittable, at least not without involving engineering that Leica would have to charge a lot more than $125 for. Even if the M8 would have an electronic frameline motor instead of a mechanical linkage, there would be no reason it couldn't have a microswitch operated by existing lens cams. Personally I will wait to hear this confirmed officially by Leica, or at least by someone who has actually handled the camera and isn't remaining anonymous. Because, if people have to either have all their lenses chipped, or stop and change framelines manually each time they put on a different lens (like the Bessa cameras), the M8 is going to lose a lot of potential buyers and I can't imagine Leica doesn't know that or care.

[willie_901]

Do digital photogs really expect that? And do they really benefit from it? How?


They expect lens EXIF data because 99.9% of digicams – from the least expensive P&S to the most expensive DLSR – have this ability. The media expect this and consumers expect it.

A photographer who views themselves as a perpetual student can benefit from keeping an exposure data log. Whether you record the data on paper, memorize it or automatically store it in an data file is a matter of convenience and accuracy.

EXIF data is no different than any other data. If you don't use it, you can't benefit from it. Before digital cameras many photographers kept a notebook of exposure info. Did they benefit from their data?

I speculated the alleged low-cost chip upgrade for existing Leica lenses will not record focus and aperture data. Recording just the lens type and serial number data has minimal utility. I doubt Leica will be overwhelmed with requests to modify existing lens. But M8 users who send a pre-M8 lens in for CLA or repair will probably buy a chip.

To me the only interesting question concerns second generation Leica M8 lenses. Will they be fully or partially automated, and if so, when? Or, will they simply record manually set focus and aperture settings? I could care less, but it is fun to think about.

What would you do if you were the Supreme Galactic Emperor or Empress of planet Leica?

willie

[kbg32]

speculate, speculate, speculate...... As the release time gets nearer, more and more details about the M8 will be known. I'm sure that there will be a pre-release review or two before then as well. I can't wait!

[JT]

There will be some sort of official announcement next week from Leica

[kbg32]

See, that didn't take long!

Thanks Jorge.

[jlw]

There's little space to do anything inside the lenses and, with a cost of $125, I can't see them doing much more than replacing the lens mount, a few screws on most lenses. Maybe there will be sprung contacts on the face of the camera lens mount and a pattern of DX-style coded lands set into the rear of the lens mount. Maybe there will be a set of contacts around the lens throat like on a Nikon lens.

I agree that the retrofit couldn't involve much more than that, and the slick thing is that there wouldn't NEED to be much more to capture basic exposure info.

A simple contact pad at the rear of the lens mount could easily signal the lens' focal length and maximum aperture to the body. (This info either could be burned onto a ROM chip, as on the Contax G2, or simply done by a pattern of how the pins are interconnected, the way the jumper block on a hard disk mechanism works.)

Signalling the maximum aperture would allow the camera to compute the current working aperture by comparing TTL- and non-TTL-measured light levels -- without requiring the addition of an encoder on the aperture ring or any other moving parts.

Again, this is how working apertures are determined on the Contax G2 for recording exposure data in its data back. The camera reads the overall light level as measured by the non-TTL meter cell (which is provided for metering with the Hologon lens) and compares it to the measurement from the TTL cell in the camera throat. Knowing these two measurements plus the lens' maximum aperture (read from its ROM chip) allows the camera to calculate the aperture that's set on the lens.

Taking this simple approach on M lenses would allow the EXIF data to record focal length, shutter speed, and (approximate) aperture for every shot, without requiring any mechanical alterations to the lens at all. Presumably it also could be retrofitted to other manufacturers' M-mount lenses, assuming they could crack the code used for the data exchange.

[Ben Z]

I agree that the retrofit couldn't involve much more than that, and the slick thing is that there wouldn't NEED to be much more to capture basic exposure info.

A simple contact pad at the rear of the lens mount could easily signal the lens' focal length and maximum aperture to the body.

Have you had a look at the rigid chrome (50s-60s) Summicron? There aren't any screws on the lens mount, it's integral with the part of the lens that has the DOF scale and the stop for the infinity lock (on the rigid). On many other lenses, if you take off the lens mount there's a wide flat plate that extends to the flange opening, which has the female screw threads for the lens mount and the two butt up to each other. Unlike the R lenses the M lenses were designed with maximum compactness in mind, not with future incorporation of some kind of databus affair. I would be really surprised not to see a long list of M lenses incompatible with upgrading, unless they're planning to mill out a tiny slot and epoxy in some kind of tiny microchip. Even so, if non-chipped lenses won't bring up the proper framelines, Leica's going to have an angry torch-waving mob outside their door, mark my words.

[John Camp]

"Even so, if non-chipped lenses won't bring up the proper framelines, Leica's going to have an angry torch-waving mob outside their door, mark my words."


In some ruminations above, I concluded that wouldn't happen...and to expand on that, this is why: Leica will be asking $5,000 for each body. Their best customers, at least initially, will be current users. To ask current users to buy another several thousand dollars worth of new lenses -- say, $7500 for three lenses -- which would duplicate lenses they already have, would be too much. The M8 would sink under its own weight; few people are going to buy what would amount to a $12,500 10 MP camera, not with the relatively small and lightweight D200 out there at $1600 and Zeiss lenses coming down the line. So: I'd be willing to bet quite a bit that the M8 will be fully functional with current lenses, but will not register all exif data with them. Of course, even with current lenses, it would be able to register ASA, shutter speed, time, date and a bunch of other information that would be determined within the body's electronics. With that data, any semi-experienced user should be able to guess the other stuff (It's bright sunlight in the photo, shutter speed is 125, ASA is 100, what's the f-stop? Can you say "Sunny 16?")

So, I've stopped worrying, have retracted all threatening messages, and have gone back to my usual indolent self.

JC

[Mark Norton]

This site is claiming to know which lenses can be "upgraded":

http://www.summilux.net/m_system/objectifs_6_bits.html

If you hunt around, there's also a picture of what might be an M8 on test.

They're saying the coding will be 6 bit - which allows a number in the range 0 - 63 to be passed to the camera.

[Ben Z]

I don't know French, does it say anywhere if the coding chip will be required in order for the lens to bring up the proper framelines automatically, or not? That's (at least to me) the only critical issue. I don't give a hoot if the EXIF file doesn't have the lens data (I shoot my old Pentax screwmount lenses on my Canon 20D just fine), but if I have to set the framelines manually every time I change lenses I want no part of the M8. It's not the money for having the lenses converted either, it's that three of my 5 Leica lenses aren't on the list of possibles: my E43 50 Summilux, my rigid chrome Summicron, and my "fat" 90 T-E.

[Bob Parsons]

Google translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.summilux.net%2Fm_syst em%2Fobjectifs_6_bits.html&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) works quite well. You can continue to browse the site with the translator active :D

Bob.

[santino]

I've just heard about the metallic shutter and the compatibility to all M lenses (read it in "Leica World")

[Mark Norton]

Here's the translation from Babel Fish. Mind you, these are the people who have a picture on a "Digital M" link with film rails... I was fooled until someone pointed it out, so whether the following is true is anyone's guess...

Dont get the reference to aircraft though! It's translated "d'identifier l'optique monté sur l'appareil" as "to identify optics gone up on the aircraft"; should be "to identify the lens mounted on the camera". LOL.

"New: As from July 1, 2006, Leica will deliver objectives M with contacts. As for the system Leica R, the contacts will not be essential, but they will make it possible to optimize the adjustments with the M numerical. From July 1, 2006, Leica will deliver objectives M equipped with contacts 6 bits. The code 6 bits extends the functions of the numerical LEICA M. Compatibility is completely ensured with the system present, passed, future. The public price of all the objectives will be slightly increased at July 1, 2006. The current objectives, delivered before July 1, 2006, could be updated for a tariff appreciably equal to the increase in July 1, 2006. The references remain unchanged, packing of the coded objectives 6 bits will be recognizable with the labels announcing the 6 bits. The former objectives can also be updated (see the tables below). Which is the object of optics M with identifying code 6 bits? The update of the bayonet of optics Leica M is used to ensure an optimal result of image associated the LEICA M numerical. The system of the optical sensor makes it possible the apparatus to read the code on the bayonet of the objective and to identify optics gone up on the aircraft. Of course, it is possible to use uncoded optics and to obtain good results with the digital LEICA M, and, vice versa, all coded optics can be used on silver apparatuses LEICA M without any restriction. The digital LEICA M adds the data transmitted by the objective to the metadata and uses this information to treat the data of the image optimalement. With an aim of preserving compatibility with the former and future material, the bayonet of the LEICA M remains unchanged. How does the code function? With an aim of marking the type of objective, the ring of the bayonet is equipped with 6 contacts black and white. On the digital LEICA M, coding is recognized with the assistance of 6 sensors integrated into the bayonet of the apparatus. "

[ch1]

They expect lens EXIF data because 99.9% of digicams – from the least expensive P&S to the most expensive DLSR – have this ability. The media expect this and consumers expect it.

A photographer who views themselves as a perpetual student can benefit from keeping an exposure data log. Whether you record the data on paper, memorize it or automatically store it in an data file is a matter of convenience and accuracy.

EXIF data is no different than any other data. If you don't use it, you can't benefit from it. Before digital cameras many photographers kept a notebook of exposure info. Did they benefit from their data?

I speculated the alleged low-cost chip upgrade for existing Leica lenses will not record focus and aperture data. Recording just the lens type and serial number data has minimal utility. I doubt Leica will be overwhelmed with requests to modify existing lens. But M8 users who send a pre-M8 lens in for CLA or repair will probably buy a chip.

To me the only interesting question concerns second generation Leica M8 lenses. Will they be fully or partially automated, and if so, when? Or, will they simply record manually set focus and aperture settings? I could care less, but it is fun to think about.

What would you do if you were the Supreme Galactic Emperor or Empress of planet Leica?

willie

I believe that the EXIF data is also used by processing software such as PS. While Leica may believe it is all high and mighty - it's digipics too will have to find a place in the PS world! :D

[ch1]

Here's the translation from Babel Fish. Mind you, these are the people who have a picture on a "Digital M" link with film rails... I was fooled until someone pointed it out, so whether the following is true is anyone's guess...

Dont get the reference to aircraft though! It's translated "d'identifier l'optique monté sur l'appareil" as "to identify optics gone up on the aircraft"; should be "to identify the lens mounted on the camera". LOL.

"New: As from July 1, 2006, Leica will deliver objectives M with contacts. As for the system Leica R, the contacts will not be essential, but they will make it possible to optimize the adjustments with the M numerical. From July 1, 2006, Leica will deliver objectives M equipped with contacts 6 bits. The code 6 bits extends the functions of the numerical LEICA M. Compatibility is completely ensured with the system present, passed, future. The public price of all the objectives will be slightly increased at July 1, 2006. The current objectives, delivered before July 1, 2006, could be updated for a tariff appreciably equal to the increase in July 1, 2006. The references remain unchanged, packing of the coded objectives 6 bits will be recognizable with the labels announcing the 6 bits. The former objectives can also be updated (see the tables below). Which is the object of optics M with identifying code 6 bits? The update of the bayonet of optics Leica M is used to ensure an optimal result of image associated the LEICA M numerical. The system of the optical sensor makes it possible the apparatus to read the code on the bayonet of the objective and to identify optics gone up on the aircraft. Of course, it is possible to use uncoded optics and to obtain good results with the digital LEICA M, and, vice versa, all coded optics can be used on silver apparatuses LEICA M without any restriction. The digital LEICA M adds the data transmitted by the objective to the metadata and uses this information to treat the data of the image optimalement. With an aim of preserving compatibility with the former and future material, the bayonet of the LEICA M remains unchanged. How does the code function? With an aim of marking the type of objective, the ring of the bayonet is equipped with 6 contacts black and white. On the digital LEICA M, coding is recognized with the assistance of 6 sensors integrated into the bayonet of the apparatus. "


Mark,

And you did not recognize this a technobabble? :confused:

[jlw]

So, apparently they're just using a pattern of black-and-white stripes marked on the lensmount, and read by a sensor in the camera body mount? Rather clever, I think, as long as it isn't thrown off by dirt etc.

On the other hand, charging $125 to stick a bar-code sticker on the lens mount sounds a bit stiff even by Leica standards.

[Mark Norton]

Mark,

And you did not recognize this a technobabble? :confused:

Well, yes, it was in French after all... the whole thing could be a red-harring, all this rumour-mongering from "Leica Reps" (senior or otherwise) - when you last believe anything a salesman told you?

Thry must be doing more than putting a sticker on the lens mount - they cannnot change the lens to focal plane distance, it's got to be damp, wear and dirt resistant too.

[c.poulton]

I sure hope they have a manual function so that even if the framelines don't automatically appear one can at least set them manually. I think it would be a shame not to be able to use all the wonderful and less expensive lenses out there. Especially since I don't have any Leitz glass and $5K is a bit above my level of affordability these days already without having to buy new lenses as well. I'll keep dreaming though.
Here here! Surely Leica will include some manual functionality for frameline selection - for us owners of old LTM glass. (I am saving up for a M8, but it may take quite a few years if I have to buy new Leica glass as well!)

Oh hum.........

[VinceC]

>>it's got to be damp, wear and dirt resistant too.<<

Surely the rear metal elements of a Leica mnount would not be more fragile than the rear glass elements.

[Mark Norton]

From the picture on the Leica forum, the coding consists of 6 patches milled into the back of the lens mount and filled with black or white paint, so resistant to wear of mounting and dismounting the lens, not affected by damp or dirt, providing you keep the window of the sensor clean.

The same picture suggests the dots are located at 5 "o'clock" on the lens mount, as viewed from the front.

[Ken Ford]

The pic mentioned by Mark:

[jaapv]

I sure hope they have a manual function so that even if the framelines don't automatically appear one can at least set them manually. I think it would be a shame not to be able to use all the wonderful and less expensive lenses out there. Especially since I don't have any Leitz glass and $5K is a bit above my level of affordability these days already without having to buy new lenses as well. I'll keep dreaming though.

Leica said, repeated and insisted that the M8 would function with virtually all older lenses. So I'm notworried. So far they have been very good with retro-compabilty and it would be highly surprising as well as reputation-damaging if they pulled any tricks in that department.