View Full Version : Tele-elmarit flare
Hi everybody!
To those who have used "thin Tele-Elmarit, f 2,8": I have one from year 78, Made in Canada.
I like the lens, but sometimes I get very annoying flare or fogging of image. The pattern is somewhat parallel to the long side of frame, almost total length of frame, maybe 2-3 mm from edge, covering maybe 1/4 of the frame.
It happens only with that T-Elmarit, not my other M-2 lenses. I regret having discarded those images, so I cannot scan any proof now.
Does it sound anyway familiar? The best I can do is use hood and avoid direct light to the lens, but I am curious to know, if this is a phenomenon somebody has also seen.
Esa
Yes Esa, it's a "feature" of that lens. ;) Mine was made in 1985 and it flares slightly, even with a short lens hood on if the sun is in the right place. Great lens, but it is known to be susceptible to flare.
I am trying to get a particular Heliopan lens hood for this lens. It's nr. 9802-1039 and is a long 39mm hood that I think will go a good way to fixing the problem. Very difficult to find in the U.S. but you may be able to find one in Finland.
The other thing is to be careful of filters on the lens. A non-multicoated filter may add to the flare problem. I have a B+W MRC filter on the front of mine. Expensive but worth it.
Thank You, Peter
I found a retailer/importer in Finland, who promised a shade in a 2 to 3 weeks.
The old rubber shade is gone years ago and I have not found a decent one since then.
I will further check the quality of my filters. As far as I understand, these precautions do not make the problem vanish but could make the propability of flare somewhat smaller.
Thaks, Esa
Absolutely correct, Esa. The lens will still flare but you will have lessened the chance of it happening. :)
Keep the lens - I have seen it criticized in forums but it's a classic lens in the Leica tradition, small and light, a little soft wide-open (perfect for portraits) and really sharp by f8 (great for landscapes).
I love this lens. My dad bought this lens back in the 80s I believe. I think it is a very, very late one, because it was made in Germany (3430xxx). I have only ever shot with it using the very deep shade that came with it (12575), but I have never had it flare. Get a deep shade, it will really make a difference. Another advantage is that it is so deep that it makes a filter almost pointless as a protective device, so you can leave it off unless you really need it.
Here is a shot with it stopped down a stop or two. This is a crop from the larger image (it is about 3/5ths of the larger image).
Hi
I found an example and decided to test how to load photos, so just for information, my flare pic.
I uploaded it too in pictures.
Cheers Esa
Hmm, that doesn't look like any flare I have seen...the sharp edge is odd to me. Are you sure it is not a light leak or shutter hole? Does it happen with any other lenses? Great shot by the way.
Stuart, thank You
I have two other lenses that I use more often than this. Never any problems with the others.
Shutter has been checked in an other situation and no problem. Just this in some T-Elmarit-shots.
Esa
I agree with Stuar, Esa; that looks more like a light leak in the camera back than lens flare. But the fact it only happens with that one lens argues against that. Very odd.
I have an earlier Canadian Tele-Elmarit of the fat variety and don't recall noticing any flare. I have used it fairly recently on a Voigtlander Bessa-T body, as sampled below. Looking over that whole roll I see no evidence of flare with strong sunlight from the side...
Theoretically speaking: One could hold the camera somewhat differently with 90 mm than with shorter lenses. If there was a leak in the back, it could, theoretically make the difference. But still, I take at least 90 % of my shot with the shorter ones, and do believe that this would have happened in some shots. I have not enough flare or leaks or whatever to definite judgements to any direction. Maybe lots of shots on a tripod to test??
Well, so far I have been able to live with it.
Thaks, Esa
PS: I have been lucky, too. For some reason I even have a clean shot of those fishes.
You are right, it probably is the lens, but that does not make it any less strange! The only thing I could think of is that it is flaring only from one element, and at the edge of that element, it no longer flares...so that the flare is almost a reflection off of the lens element, which gives it its curved shape and distinct edge. It is very weird though, I will admit....
This is the weirdest flare I have had -- 35mm summilux ASPH with the sun right out of the frame in the upper left. Pretty weird though...
Nice pic Stuart! And look at that beautiful OOF background!! Mmmmm :).
Esa that doesn't look like flare to me either, not with that well-defined top edge. Is the lens itself clear, no weird stuff on any of the elements? If you can live with it, that's OK, but I think I would send the lens and picture off for repair.
Thank You all! Now that I got some ideas what to check, I took the lens in very good light and could see some kind of "fog" in one surface inside the lens on one of the outer elements. It could be something Stuart wrote. Maybe itīs that.
Iīll have the lens checked as Peter suggested. Better have a good lens totally functional.
Esa
Harry Lime
10-09-2006, 21:47
Hmm, that doesn't look like any flare I have seen...the sharp edge is odd to me. Are you sure it is not a light leak or shutter hole? Does it happen with any other lenses? Great shot by the way.
I have experienced this exact type of flare with my copy of the Tele-Elmarit (#3317####).
The flare tends to be very 'mechanical' in appearance, as if light was being reflected back up the lens tube from some protrusion inside the barrel.
Oddly enough I also experienced this sort of flare on two occasions with my 2/50 Summicron-M (current) and once with my very late example of the pre-ASPH 50 Summilux.
Many years ago there was a post on photo.net where someone claimed to have figured out what was causing this phenomenon in various Leica lenses. The only problem is that I can't find the thread anymore and have forgotten was the fellow's conclusion was.:bang: I can't remember if it was light bouncing off of the end of the threaded brass tube that moves the RF cam or if it was something in the chamber of the body.
HL
sleepyhead
10-09-2006, 23:40
Impressive flare on that "state-of-the-art" 35mm Summilux ASPH. 'Never seen anything like that on my pre-ASPH model - only lovely artistic halo-ing around some highlights.
Pre-ASPH fight back time!
BUT, ON TOPIC, yes, this lens is known for some flare. I had one for a while but sold it because it wasn't as sharp as the older Elmarit design when focused close... Still, this lens is lovely because it's SO SMALL!
I have the thin TE, mine's Canadian in the 3,200,000 serial range. Use it mostly outdoors (it's my light travel 90, I also have the 90 Cron E55 and the older heavier TE) always one of those B+W MRC filters on, never seen it flare. I did use the folding rubber hood for a while but since I've had the 135 TE I just bring the one 12575 and use it for both lenses. It's about a half inch longer so I imagine it screens out a lot more off-axis stray light.
sestosan
10-10-2006, 10:09
Hi, I saw the photo. I had the same problem on my M3...is not the lense.
Is a leak of light from the back door. Try to shot with some tape on the back door and see. Hope this help.
Salvatore
That flare pattern look very familiar. I shot some photos with some of my lenses toward the sun, purely to test for flare. Below are my fat TE (no hood), CV35 ultron (w/hood), and ltm 50/3.5 Elmar red scale (no hood). I expected that the TE would flare, I didn't expect the Elmar not to!
1. TE 2. CV35 3. Elmar
Many years ago there was a post on photo.net where someone claimed to have figured out what was causing this phenomenon in various Leica lenses. The only problem is that I can't find the thread anymore and have forgotten was the fellow's conclusion was.:bang: I can't remember if it was light bouncing off of the end of the threaded brass tube that moves the RF cam or if it was something in the chamber of the body.Harry I saw something similar on PN. As I recall it was internal reflection in the barrel. I think one poster claimed that Leica did a poor job with the internal coating on their lenses, another stuck an extra baffle in the lens and claimed that did the trick.
Ronald M
10-10-2006, 11:30
The marks across the top look a lot like shutter light shield leaks I have had with 3 bodies. The key would be if it shows when you change lenses although it shows at other times and if it goes between the frames.
The marks across the top look a lot like shutter light shield leaks I have had with 3 bodies. The key would be if it shows when you change lenses although it shows at other times and if it goes between the frames.
Ronald - looks like that's exactly what's going on, I just looked again at the negs and the light extends beyond the frame. Were you able to get that fixed, or do I just have to be extra careful when changing lenses?
Harry I saw something similar on PN. As I recall it was internal reflection in the barrel. I think one poster claimed that Leica did a poor job with the internal coating on their lenses, another stuck an extra baffle in the lens and claimed that did the trick.
Somehow it seems a little arrogant (not to mention implausible) that a layman would be able to out-engineer Leica's designers, but then I recall having to research different types of caulk and how to best apply it to seal the viewfinder of my MP, prior to the time Leica admitted there was a problem with dust getting through the huge gap brought about by their pointless devolution of the eyepiece attachment design. That said the actual number of people who have encountered "internal flare" with the 50 Summicron (despite the racket made by the few who have) is far less than those whose MP viewfinders filled up with grunge :mad:
Stuart, thank You
I have two other lenses that I use more often than this. Never any problems with the others.
Shutter has been checked in an other situation and no problem. Just this in some T-Elmarit-shots.
Esa
I've seen this a number of times from both leica and other brand lenses. It's internal reflections in the camera itself. It's a form of flare when a strong light hits the front of the lens and stray nonimage forming light is transmitted into the camera and reflects off the bottom of the inside of the camera. The conditions have to be just right but it happens with all lenses. A good hood might help.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.