View Full Version : 30 days, 5 rolls, off to the repair shop
New ZI lasted exactly 30 days and around 5 rolls of film. Now it's off to Tony at PopPhoto (good thing I saved his original packing box with the airbags). Was rewinding a roll of 800 film yesterday when the rewind crank with a spring-like device came off in my hand. Sh*t happens, but I expected more from this camera. I can only hope it's not indicative of things to come.
Regards,
Charlie
Disappointed Consumer :mad:
back alley
04-16-2006, 14:16
ouch!!
joe
There is simply no way that anyone can produce a camera of extremely high quality plus a line of excellent lenses and then ask for less money. When getting some of the new camera bodies, it should be taken into account that they cannot and should not be compared to the Leitz bodies or older Canon or Nikon bodies.
back alley
04-16-2006, 14:25
so who was comparing?
Silva Lining
04-16-2006, 14:59
Hmm, I know all to well that feeling you get in the pit of your stomach when the new item you have bought doesn't work or breaks, its gutting.
Hopefully it'll get fixed up soon Charlie!
Whatever about comapring to a Leica or Canon etc. -The ZI is not a cheap piece of equipment -No camera rewind crank, not even a Holga, should fail after such limited use.
ZeissFan
04-16-2006, 15:26
Without doing the same to my camera, the rewind crank is made to unthread. If you insert a small block into the forks inside the camera and twist sharply in the opposite direction of the film rewinding action, all rewind cranks will come off.
It's possible that the rewind crank is simply unthreaded from its post. I'm not saying that this is the case here -- only that it's a possibility. And if that's what has happened, then I would simply put it back on and tighten it as much as reasonably possible.
With the Zeiss Ikon, the very real possibility of rewinding the film in the wrong direction could actually loosen the rewind crank if it wasn't tightened securely during assembly.
Naturally reports at random do not tell the entire story. But three RF members have had problems with the ZI: First Mike Elek, then Joe, now Charlie. That's pretty disturbing to me, especially since I really want this camera to succeed, want it to be reliable, etc., so that if I decide to dive back into the M mount world, I'll have another choice. This is frustrating.
back alley
04-16-2006, 16:39
my zi has been fine since i got the second body.
it has been traveling back and forth to work everyday in the domke 5xb bag.
it gets thrown onto the passenger seat from the driver's side door.
no problems shooting or changing lenses, meter is fine.
joe
Huck Finn
04-16-2006, 16:54
Naturally reports at random do not tell the entire story. But three RF members have had problems with the ZI: First Mike Elek, then Joe, now Charlie. That's pretty disturbing to me, especially since I really want this camera to succeed, want it to be reliable, etc., so that if I decide to dive back into the M mount world, I'll have another choice. This is frustrating.
Trius, 3 problems is not a high number. Go over to the forum at www.leica-camera.com & you'll read all kinds of problems with brand new Leica M7's & others. Same is true with Nikons, Canons, etc. Stuff happens, which is why companies sell their cameras with warrantees. Same thing for new cars & almost any kind of new equipment you can think of.
Mike,
I never rewound the film in the wrong direction and I did try screwing the crank back on myself but with no luck. It wouldn't engage the threads and I couldn't figure how the spring device went back on the unit. Also, I'm not entirely sure some parts are not missing. I didn't want to add to the problem so I just sent it back. As luck would have it, I was only a couple of blocks from my neighborhood camera store. They were able to remove the film from the canister so I didn't lose the images. Of course, the canister is still in the camera. I really like the ZI. For someone who wears glasses like me, it is much easier to focus than my m6 and the 28 lens is outstanding. Hope it comes back and soon and is trouble-free but I have to say the honeymoon is over.
Regards,
Charlie
The camera is new. It will have bugs. It happens with most consumer goods including really expensive things like cars as Huck points out. It is the way of things these days. When the digital M8 comes out in the fall you won't have to wait too long for the wailing and the gnashing of teeth...
Does anybody know how many ZI have been sold in America? ;)
Huck Finn
04-16-2006, 19:46
There have been reports of thousands sold world wide. My guess is that a significant chunk of that is in the states since Zeiss has identified this as one of its primary markets.
Ouch.. that's really weird problem.
I've had the ZI since November last year, so far so good. I've run about two dozen rolls through the camera since the beginning. *shrug*
This is a great camera, however, it is one of those I would highly recommend one to first try handling before buying it.
jan normandale
04-16-2006, 21:07
I once had a camera that was new outta the box. Had to take it in 3 , count 'em , 3 times! Last trip I was demanding a new camera. The sales rep asked me 'just try it when it's fixed and back to you. If it gives you a problem again come in and we'll work it out'..... needless to say I've got the camera 20 years later and it's never been a problem since. It was a Pentax.
Here's hoping this is your last.
I know 3 is not a high number. And I know it's not a definitive sampling, yada, yada. All I was saying was that of the owners on RF, it seemed high. Yeah, we don't know how many have been shipped worldwide or to the U.S., but we also don't know how many have developed problems.
Like I said, I'm hoping the camera is a success, hence I'm hoping the number of issues are within a normal statistical range for a new product launch.
willie_901
04-17-2006, 06:47
I can't find the link now , but a photo/image business article I read last week said Zeiss reported in March that 3,500 cameras have shipped world wide and that prodiction was sold out for the short-term (months). A photographer in Japan on FLICKR told me he had to wait about a month to get his new ZI body.
willie
Bertram2
04-17-2006, 08:52
There is simply no way that anyone can produce a camera of extremely high quality plus a line of excellent lenses and then ask for less money. When getting some of the new camera bodies, it should be taken into account that they cannot and should not be compared to the Leitz bodies or older Canon or Nikon bodies.
A detachable rewind crank that has come off as a proof that you can't build a real quality product for less money than a M7 costs ?? That isn't really meant serious, I suppose ? :rolleyes:
The Leica price does not only come from quality.
A considerable part comes from beeing produced at the wrong place, and another part comes from antiquated design and material produced in obsolete production processes.
Like a Porsche 356 built new nowadays in Zuffenhausen with the process and material of 1955.
This has absolutely nothing to do with an "extremely high quality", not necessarily. As all the trouble shows, which some had with their M6 and especially later with their M7 bodies and with some lenses too.
bertram
I don't think that the fact that three problems have been report here is statistically significant. After all this IS a RF site - so it's a likely place for someone to report a problem or seek advice etc.
More than likely what is the case are "early teething problems" of a camera model that (hopefully) will be around for a number of years. Reports like these are important to the manufacturer so they can determine if it is a "one off" or a production system problem.
So long as they honor the warranty - I would "keep the faith". In a lot of ways you are a pioneer when you are one of the first to buy a newly introduced piece of gear. That has downsides as well as ups....
John Robertson
04-17-2006, 09:54
NO camera make is totally free from faults, but its still crap when it happens to you!!
And before the Wetzlahr crowd start, the exact same thing happened many years ago to my Leica M5, and after working in a camera shop every Saturday for many years, the angled rewind on the M4 also caused quite a few problems. The main thing is how quickly and successfully the fault is fixed, no camera is any good if there isn't a decent back-up by the agents. And don't even mention the Leica Minilux which I bought new to celebrate my retirement. Shutter failed three times, (a known fault sir!! ) it now lies useless in a drawer as Leica want £250 to repair it again!!! I've seen just about every make returned after a few films for replacement/repair.
What will be more interesting will be how quick Charlies camera is returned successfully repaired.
Incidentally the "free" Swiss Army watch I got with the Minilux is still performing faultlessly :rolleyes:
Huck Finn
04-17-2006, 12:24
Incidentally the "free" Swiss Army watch I got with the Minilux is still performing faultlessly :rolleyes:
:D :D :D :p ;)
Hey, stuff fails from time to time, people here have bought Bessas and had trouble, bought new Leica and had trouble. When anything new is mass prodced there will be some failure rate hopefully a small one. OK now its been reported that three ZI people have had problems on this site, how many here have not had any trouble?
More to the point it tends to be when things go wrong that you hear about them and not when they perform as designed.
Charlie, I am sorry to hear that you had problems with yours. I really hope the soulution is found quickly an that the new camera performs well. I've not heard of rewind crank failure before so this could be "one of those things". I along with others will be keeping an eye on the types of ZI failure though.
When an item costs a lot of money and has been a long time in coming, you should expect top quality though.
ZeissFan
04-17-2006, 15:13
Now that I think about it, it would use a reverse thread. So you would tighten by turning counterclockwise and loosen by turning clockwise.
It also is possible that the post was simply weak and snapped, leaving the threaded portion inside the rewind crank.
Take it easy; it is just my initial thought when it comes to quality craftmanship. Maybe I am wrong here.
Mike: Reversing the thread didn't occur to me but the post was still intact. Still was baffled by that spring thing.
Fred: You're right. Mechanical things go wrong and hopefully this is a one-of-a-kind problem. If it had been a $500 Bessa as opposed to a $1250 ZI, then I would not have been as disappointed. Whether right or wrong, there's always a price-to-quality expectation that enters into any equation. Also, I really liked the camera; so much so that I considered selling the m6 ttl. Hopefully it's a quick fix and back to me asap.
Regards,
Charlie
Huck Finn
04-18-2006, 08:37
Charlie, where did you get it for $1250? That's a nice price. :)
John Robertson
04-18-2006, 16:36
Charlie, where did you get it for $1250? That's a nice price. :)
As a pensioner, my question is not where do you get it for $1250, more like where do you get $1250?? :rolleyes:
Ah well there is always the lottery or sell my body for scrap!! :angel:
erikhaugsby
04-18-2006, 16:38
Does anybody know how many ZI have been sold in America? ;)
alot. enough to make Carl Zeiss's family rich off of the licensing fees and all.
They sure are usually good cameras, especially for the price. Granted, this is said only a few months after public release...
back alley
04-18-2006, 16:45
As a pensioner, my question is not where do you get it for $1250, more like where do you get $1250?? :rolleyes:
Ah well there is always the lottery or sell my body for scrap!! :angel:
john, if i could shoot as well as you and it would cost me that same 1250, i would steal it if i had to.
i think you could make the proverbial silk purse out of the sow's ear with most anything that could hold film.
there's a compliment in there, somewhere.
joe
shutterflower
04-18-2006, 16:49
What IS it with cameras lately? And especially all the contract stuff by CV?
Joe: Thanks for relieving my GAS.
John Robertson
04-18-2006, 17:21
john, if i could shoot as well as you and it would cost me that same 1250, i would steal it if i had to.
i think you could make the proverbial silk purse out of the sow's ear with most anything that could hold film.
there's a compliment in there, somewhere.
joe
Thanks Joe, you say the nicest things, (people will talk!!) :rolleyes: :p
I think its the old story about the grass being greener the other side of the fence!!
All I pray is that film will last till I'm too old to care!! I have a Canon Powershot digithing but I just get very little pleasure using that damned thing. I hate all cameras which are covered with buttons, my T90 nearly drove me to drink!!!
I'm not a technophobe, I've been involved with computers for 25years, and use a film scanner. I just prefer to be in control with my own brain :rolleyes:
back alley
04-18-2006, 17:34
Joe: Thanks for relieving my GAS.
how i did this?
.... I hate all cameras which are covered with buttons, my T90 nearly drove me to drink!!!.... :rolleyes:
You are complaining here?
Perhaps a new digicam is in your immediate future?
Consider, if you will, the many "wee drams" it will provide! ;)
Huck,
I think it was actually $1287. Got it at PopFlash.Photo.
You say 3 is not a significant amount, 3 out of how many on this site!, not that have been sold. That could be a third, or a fifth, whats the number!!
back alley
04-18-2006, 18:34
look for the zeiss survey here on the site
Joe: Your compliment to John (which I echo) reminded me that I have enough cameras/lenses. I just need to use them more/better. GAS can be fun, but it can also be a disease and hindrance.
Earl
back alley
04-18-2006, 18:50
Joe: Your compliment to John (which I echo) reminded me that I have enough cameras/lenses. I just need to use them more/better. GAS can be fun, but it can also be a disease and hindrance.
Earl
i hear ya.
i just have finished a complete orgy of buying, so much so that i have committed money from my next paycheck.
i don't regret it...but i have had my fill.
my next goal is to sit down and work out some sort of action plan for shooting.
establish some attainable goals and work out a plan to get them accomplished.
i do not want to sell or buy anything for a good long while.
except film.
i want to shoot and feel good about shooting and i hope wind up with some really good photos.
one of the ways i used to use to quit smoking was to smoke non stop, especially after they started to taste bad and kinda burnt in my mouth.
i think i have done this with buying gear.
joe
John Robertson
04-18-2006, 19:34
You are complaining here?
Perhaps a new digicam is in your immediate future?
Consider, if you will, the many "wee drams" it will provide! ;)
Probably I would need them to recover from using it. :rolleyes: any excuse!!
I also still suffer from GAS, but I now take Bicarbonate of Soda for it. :p
Huck Finn
04-19-2006, 07:16
You say 3 is not a significant amount, 3 out of how many on this site!, not that have been sold. That could be a third, or a fifth, whats the number!!
Patman, I think that more have been sold in general & more have been bought by people on this site than you might think. This is after all a "rangefinder" forum.
But my point really had to do with a comparison with complaints that were posted about the R3A when it first came out. If you go back to January, 2005, you'll find a number of these posts. One buyer alone had problems with 3 different samples of the R3A before he gave up on it. We have seen no such string of complaints like that with regard to the ZI. Reported complaints have been relatively minor & all have been addressed to the satisfaction of the customer.
Even Leica buyers experience out-of-the-box problems with brand new M7's & MP's. The customer forum at www.leica-camera.com is full of them. And there aren't an enormous number of those sold either.
Granted that I'm biased because I'm a satisfied customer. I might feel differently if it were me experiencing the problem. I guess that I was sold on the high level of QC that Carl Zeiss AG insisted on at the Cosina factory. I don't know of anyone else today with as high a level of QC as they have installed for this camera. Maybe Leica?
Good news on the broken ZI. Sent it back to Tony Rose at popflash.photo and he was able to fix it within a minute and put on fed ex today. He also replaced the battery and threw in a couple of rolls of flim. Needless to say, he made a customer of me for life.
Charlie
ZeissFan
04-24-2006, 16:59
Fixed it in a minute? Sounds like he simply screwed it back onto the post. Well, either way, that's good news. Plus, the fact that he threw in some film was really generous. Good for you.
That's exactly what he did. I think that was your prognosis in an earlier post.
Huck Finn
04-24-2006, 21:10
I can't find the link now , but a photo/image business article I read last week said Zeiss reported in March that 3,500 cameras have shipped world wide and that prodiction was sold out for the short-term (months). A photographer in Japan on FLICKR told me he had to wait about a month to get his new ZI body.
willie
I don't know what link Willie was tryng to remember, but I remember that I saw this on the Carl Zeiss website in February. It siad that 3500 had been shipped & that the manufacturing capacity of 1000 per month was booked for several months out. So, by now there should be about 5500 units distributed. See www.zeiss.com/cln.
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