Nikon portrait lens on Leica [Archive]

telenous

03-23-2006, 13:50

I 've been thinking about a Nikon portrait lens -either the 85mm or the 105mm- in LTM for my Leica. I have shot some with my Elmarit which is a lovely lens and gives sharp results stopped down and quite impressionistic ones when wider than f5.6. No need of ourse to extol the many virtues of the old Elmarit. I wish it were f2 though. There's always the Summicron of course but somehow I can't shake the desire for an old Nippon Kogaku. So, here's my question to Nikon devotees: what would be a fair price for a good condition Nikon 85mm in LTM? For that matter what would be fair to ask for the 50mm f1.4? You don't get them very often here in Europe, so I guess I am asking for US prices. On a more subjective note: I 've also heard that photos taken with these older Nikon lenses display on occasion a harsher bokeh. What's you opinion on that? I 've read all the relevant threads here in RFF and I 've seen some photo samples with the 85mm and they are all excellent. I am really tempted. The only thing I am sorry about is that the Elmarit will have to go.

NIKON KIU

03-23-2006, 14:41

Hello there to UK,
The 8.5cm Nikkor is one the best in class, it rivals the modern day Leicas such as the 90mm f2
The prices are reasonable on the Chrome lenses, about $200 to $300, however the black version commands much more, from $700 to $1000 depending on the condition. Also, the black barreled lens is harder to find in LTM.
Regards,
Kiu

telenous

03-23-2006, 14:56

Hello Kiu and Roland,

Thanks very much for your very replies. It does seem that EU prices are a tad heftier than US. I am primarily thinking of taking the plunge for the Nikon 85. Something tells me that this is not going to be the end of the story... Anyway I 'll keep my eyes open for a chrome one, no need for a black one, esp. as there is a premium for it.

Kind regards
Alkis

Brian Sweeney

03-23-2006, 15:18

The Bokeh on the 85/2 is smooth; the Bokeh on the 10.5cm F2.5 is also very smooth.

Nikkor 8.5cm/2 in LTM on my Canon 7:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20448

Lots of Nikkor examples in this thread, mostly with S-Mount version. The LTM's are identical formulas. The LTM 10.5cm F2.5 lens has a tripod mount.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7636

The Bokeh on the 5cm/1.4 is harsh.

5cm/1,4 wide-open on the Canon 7
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3072&cat=3204

10.5cm/2.5 on the Leica M3, using the inner portion of the 90mm framelines as "100%" viewing.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=485&cat=3204

telenous

03-23-2006, 15:28

Lovely photo Brian, thanks. I 've seen all the other ones in the thread, as well as some other in flickr. This is a wonderful lens and quite different from the Elmarit. Wide open the Elmarit seems to paint the picture with a thick brush, if that makes any sense. From what I 've seen the Nikon gives a more naturalistic rendition.

telenous

03-23-2006, 15:31

I just saw the other two pictures from the 50mm and the 105mm. I see what you mean by harsh bokeh in the 50mm. I take it from what you said that the 105mm brings up the 90mm brightline.

Todd.Hanz

03-23-2006, 15:35

Kiu, Brian,
I saw a chrome 50/1.4 SC in LTM today, they wanted 595.00 (ouch)! So i looked it up and found a sample on Dante Stella's site: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nikoleic.html , looks pretty good to me.

Is the cost of this lens justified? If I could get the same rendition he did I'd say yes, but if it's not consistently that nice wide open then for 600 I could get an early summilux. What do you thimk

VinceC

03-23-2006, 16:03

Nikkors are very consistent. Possibly had the most consistent quality control of any lens from the 1950s. That was one of the things that impressed the early users. There's a story of Life magazine photographers going to the factory and pulling random lenses from the inventory and finding that they were all of consistent quality.

VinceC

03-23-2006, 16:25

Here are some pictures I took last week with the 85mm (first two) and the 105 (second two) ... during a performance, wide open for the most part and in the 1/30th 1/15th shutter-speed range. (The shot with the dancer in blue was 125 at f/2.8).

raid

03-23-2006, 17:17

I love the Nikon 135mm/3.5 for portraits. It is a wonderful lens.

VinceC

03-23-2006, 17:37

Raid is right about the 135 Nikkor for portraits.

VinceC

03-23-2006, 20:15

Compared to the 85 f/2 Nikkor.

telenous

03-24-2006, 00:08

Same here - splendid photos, thanks for posting them Vince.

I think I 'll chase after the 85. The quality of the 105 and the 135 photos is impressive too.

Regards

Brian Sweeney

03-24-2006, 01:46

The 8.5cm F2 is the lens that put Nikon on the map. It's performance is outstanding.

Prices on Nikkors are all over the place. The LTM lenses are on the increase, the S-Mount prices seam to have decreased.

That $600 for a 5cm/1.4 is steep, but prices are way higher since Dante Stella did his write-up and RFF came about.

Prices for Nikon S-Mount have come back to Earth.

$600 will buy you a Nikon S2 with the 5cm F1.4 lens on it.

I use my 10.5cm F2.5 with the 90mm M-Mount adapter to bring up the "closest" framelines. The M3 frame covers ~90% of a 90mm lens. So I just pretend its a 100% finder for the 10.5cm lens.

VinceC

03-24-2006, 02:05

Thanks for the comments. Stage peformances are usually pretty easy because you get to steal their well-crafted dramatic lighting.

NIKON KIU

03-24-2006, 14:48

Kiu, Brian,
I saw a chrome 50/1.4 SC in LTM today, they wanted 595.00 (ouch)! So i looked ....
Very steep indeed as Brian mentioned. This is a high production optic, probably 90,000 units produced with many in screw mount. Don't forget that Nicca and Tower brands of the era had NIKKORS.
I think one should excersize patience and wait for one around $200-$300.
I like to mention a little secret, most re-sellers have to buy their items from the same sources we do, hence their premium prices.
How about this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nippon-Kogaku-chrome-50mm-F1-4-lens-for-Leica-LMT_W0QQitemZ7602034039QQcategoryZ30063QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

For $400 to $600...you can buy the 5cm f2 LTM(more availability) and a 5cm f1.4 in Nikon S mount and change the mounts...may be I shouldn't say stuff like this( forgive me Nikon gods).
Kiu

furcafe

03-26-2006, 10:49

Nice shots. The performers look like they're from Uzbekistan or neighboring 'stans in Central Asia.

Here are some pictures I took last week with the 85mm (first two) and the 105 (second two) ... during a performance, wide open for the most part and in the 1/30th 1/15th shutter-speed range. (The shot with the dancer in blue was 125 at f/2.8).

furcafe

03-26-2006, 10:55

These are LTM lenses, not M mount, so you have to attach a 90mm LTM-M adapter to bring up the 90mm framelines.

I take it from what you said that the 105mm brings up the 90mm brightline.

VinceC

03-26-2006, 12:06

Well, there is no helix on the Nikon-mount version. The helix is on the camera. The lens is just a rigid optical assembly. So it wouldn't be a huge project to mount it on a new helix.

telenous

04-12-2006, 10:39

I finally made it, got one Nikon 85mm (hooray!). I was sparring for one while this thread was active and the price got really skyhigh. Just goes to show how much RFF influences prices perhaps. But the one I finally bought is within the price bracket suggested earlier by Kiu. So thanks to everyone here for sound advice on prices and everything.

I am now really eager to get my hands on the lens, I am sure the photos will be brilliant, I am just a little worried about how limiting is the size of the lens in terms of portability.

I also wanted to ask if anyone knows what sort of caps I can use - apparently the lens comes without any.

Regards

raid

04-12-2006, 11:03

I paid $225 for my Nikon 50/2 in LTM on that dreaded online auction site.

telenous

04-12-2006, 11:26

I am not an expert on Nikon rf LTM lenses but the prices appear to be all over the place. If you are patient you can get them in nice prices on that site.

Regards

Brian Sweeney

04-12-2006, 11:33

The 8.5cm F2 uses 48mm screw in filters. If you have the two-piece hood, it comes apart and uses Series VII filters. (EDIT) I keep a 58mm clip-in cap on the mounted hood. It holds on "well Enough".

VinceC

04-13-2006, 03:36

You can also get a step-up ring to a filter/hood size that's more common. I use a 48-52mm step-up ring to share filters and hoods with my 105. Also, 52mm was standard for all but the most exotic Nikon SLR lenses.

rover

04-13-2006, 04:59

NIKON KIU

04-13-2006, 15:51

OK...I see we have 3 new infectees...Like I said Brian...Join me and we shall rule the Galaxy, I meant the RFF :) . Ooops I forgot again this is not the StarWars forum.
Kiu

rover

04-13-2006, 16:05

I made the mistake of borrowing Ray g's 85/2. It is quite handsome.

telenous

04-13-2006, 16:26

CameraQuest

04-13-2006, 20:27

The 85/2 Nikkor was one of the original four Nikkor lenses, and the # 1 Nikon portrait lens UNTIL the introduction of the 105/2.5. From that point on, the 105/2.5 just ran away and left the 85/2 in the dust sales wise, as far as RF Nikkors are concerned. I don't like shooting with the chrome 85/2 because it feels heavier than it is. Either the black 85/2 or 105/2.5 (only made in black) are delights. However the 105 sells for about 1/3 to 1/4 the price of a black 85/2 in the same condition, making the 105 the better choice of these 3 at normal retail prices.

Stephen

NIKON KIU

04-13-2006, 20:58

You have a point...but we are talking about RFF guys here, and U forgot a little point....the Black 10.5cm in LTM cost about $600-$700!! We're talking $200-$300 here.
The 8.5cm in chrome is much easier to find and is cheaper than the 10.5cm...and the performance is almpst equal...Especially from the Novice's point of view.
Kiu

NIKON KIU

04-13-2006, 21:08

I made the mistake of borrowing Ray g's 85/2. It is quite handsome.
You made a risky decision...I am gonna get U now!!
Kiu

rover

04-14-2006, 01:15

Thanks guys, I will read carefully your suggestions and scout for filter/caps for the lens.

I don't know Rover, I won the lens from Pantorama - is that the one you were after too? Sorry mate! This was the second Nikkor I bid for and I guess I wanted one real bad. If it wasn't for that one I was even considering another one (which looks minty) for about twice the money.

YES!!! That is the one!!!

All is fair in Ebay, good luck with it. It had a BIN offer of $280 when first posted. I bid the minimum just to take that option away and allow me to find some funds over the week of the auction. It looks like a nice one, but closed while I was driving home so I just bid a "fair" price and logged out. You won it for $2.50 more, nice grab.

Here is some work with the 85/2 I have to return to Ray sometime soon.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=278526#post278526

rover

04-14-2006, 01:16

You made a risky decision...I am gonna get U now!!
Kiu

No getting me, just sell me one! :D

VinceC

04-14-2006, 01:59

In portraits, I've always preferred the working distance of the 85mm lens compared to 105mm length. Both are great lenses, but the 85mm allows you to be at a conversational distance from someone whereas the 105mm makes you step back several paces. The 105mm is also larger and heavier.

02Pete

05-23-2006, 20:07

My Nikkor 8.5cm f2 in LTM produces good results when used for portraits. If focused carefully and used at full aperture and relatively close range in available light, the center area of the lens renders the face in sharp detail while the softer corners and shallow depth of field combine to blur the background, giving a sense of depth while directing attention to the subject. I don't know that I'd spend a large amount of money for a Nikkor 50mm f/1.4, though. While it has a good reputation, the Canon 50mm f/1.4 in LTM from the late 1950s or early 1960s is a first-rate lens of high optical quality that should be available for somewhat more reasonable prices.

Hacker

11-01-2008, 20:04

I often choose the Nikkor 8.5cm f2 (mine is a black LTM V1, and I'm still looking for the 48mm cap) over my other portrait lenses. It has that pleasant, flattering look without the harshness of extreme sharpness.

gohaj

11-01-2008, 20:52