View Full Version : Trek's interesting concept: usable for cameras ?
I am daily riding bicycles since I was around 12. A month ago I bought a new one from Trek trademark. After reading the very intersting manual I find a new for me quasi revolutionary mechanical concept: not only every mooving part of the bike should be oiled, but also every fixed screw should be oiled as well.
The logics say me that if I oil any screw of my used cameras, this screw is going to loosen up. If I am mistaken I may loose a camera, if Trek is mistaken I may loose my life on the road.
But I believe there is a different logic in Trek's concept, at least for cameras if not for bikes. Think about the screws of your old camera. Whenever you remove them they appear oxhydated at their ends. The holes must be oxhydated as well. Screwing the dry screws back may damage to some extent the hole and the screw altoghether. Perhaps oil doesn't facilitate the circular movemement out of the hole without a specific circular movement of the screw driver.
What do you think ?
Cheers,
Ruben
I NEVER use oil on any of my bicycles! Oil (and grease) attract grit and dirt which wears down moving parts.
I use synthetic lubricants (liquid that "dries" to a waxy-like lubricant) as do most serious cyclists!
amateriat
03-23-2006, 09:30
One word: beeswax (camera and bike screws):
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/miscellaneous/31002.html
- Barrett
I NEVER use oil on any of my bicycles! Oil (and grease) attract grit and dirt which wears down moving parts.
I use synthetic lubricants (liquid that "dries" to a waxy-like lubricant) as do most serious cyclists!
Hi friendly copake ham,
I know there is the opposite school about the dry cycling. What you say is true: oil attracts grit and dirt indeed, and for this reason I and all others from the bike oiling school have to clean grit and dirt from time to time and presto.
I do respect your school, but now with this Trek manual regarding ALL of their bycicles I have found a retrospective authoritative explicit backing of my old use of oiling every moving part, with an extended interesting mechanical idea, regarded non moving pressed screws.
This reminds me that strangely there are also two opposite schools regarding how to best maintain your Windows computer. There are those who claim for weekly drive checking and defragmentation, those who claim to "never do it". And there are high experts on both sides !
The real interesting idea for us in the RFF is about oiling non-moving pressed parts of our cameras, which has a logic of itself, to be analysed with cold blood on behalf of all of us.
Although I know something, I am no big shot in cameras, nor bikes, not nothing, and dream to arise every day of life with the same curiousity as if it was my first.
Cheers,
Ruben
If you ride year round in the Northeast U.S. or similar climes, than you would want to keep every separate nut and bolt coated with your favorite oil, grease, synthetic, etc., or serious rust and corrosion will occur. A little shot with a spray can then a quick wipe with a cloth will suffice for most pivot points--brakes, deraileurs, etc. Headset, bottom bracket, hubs should be repacked every 5,000 miles or so unless you ride in the rain a lot, then more frequently. I've found that the non-dry chain lubricants work better in snow/slush/rain, than the "dry" lubes. Keep your seatpost lightly greased in any clime, especially with newer frame materials.
KoNickon
03-23-2006, 09:55
George, I was always taught that you want to put grease (like Campagnolo lithium grease) on the threads of anything you're tightening down -- such as the bottom bracket cups, pedal threads, or the seatpost bolt -- in order to make sure the metal surfaces don't corrode and fuse together. I agree that moving parts, such as the bicycle chain, are much better served by a synthetic lubricant. (Good old paraffin is great for chains.)
But to Ruben's question about fixed screws, bicycles are exposed to the weather a lot more than cameras are, so there's a need for lubrication. I would not advise lubricating camera screws, simply because there is much less chance of rust on those parts Also, with the fixed screws on a bike, they can be tightened enough so as to overcome the possibility that the lubricant can cause the screws to loosen. Camera screws are too small and delicate to tighten to that degree. And finally, any camera repair book will tell you that lubrication of camera parts is, with rare exceptions, a Bad Idea, and so you want to avoid oil or grease migrating to places it's not welcome.
Sherry uses 12 different lubricants during a CLA, each for a specific purpose. Paraffin on a chain is OK, but if you put on a lot of miles ;), it's not practical IMO.
I always grease screws and bolts, it prevents them seizing up. As for chains, why not just get rid of the chain (http://www.ethicalwebsites.co.uk/zero/index.php)...
"Although I know something, I am no big shot in cameras, nor bikes, not nothing, and dream to arise every day of life with the same curiousity as if it was my first."
Your enthusiasm and un-jaded point of view is refreshing Ruben. I always enjoy your post's - though they take forever to read due to your avatar - I keep losing my place in the text as my eyes are drawn back to it again and again! :p
I would not advise lubricating camera screws, simply because there is much less chance of rust on those parts Also, with the fixed screws on a bike, they can be tightened enough so as to overcome the possibility that the lubricant can cause the screws to loosen. Camera screws are too small and delicate to tighten to that degree. And finally, any camera repair book will tell you that lubrication of camera parts is, with rare exceptions, a Bad Idea, and so you want to avoid oil or grease migrating to places it's not welcome.
Ok KoNickon, you are pouring some interesting ideas here. Let's check them to fine grain.
a) My bottom line is that I am deducting from Trek, that the design of a screw makes it to stay fixed by the circular channels through which it is screwed, plus the specific pressure force. Meaning that a) the best fitting between the screw and hole will make the best fixation, and oil will help that best fitting.
b) This line of thinking implyies that without oil, bumps will slightly break or corrode and degenarate that best fitting, resulting in screw loosening.
c) As for cameras screws and gears, we are talking about the older ones, 15 years and more. In general I will not make any surgery with those cameras until a problem arises. But if we have had to dismantle a part of a camera, perhaps it will help and not damage carefully oiling corroded screws.
d) As for traditional advice about the danger of oil going to undesired parts, it is like you were advising not to cross a weak bridge for the danger implyied. If you are in front of such a bridge you have to make up your mind: is there any necessity to cross it or not ? If there is, I would first check the bridge very carefully and then cross it. But not avoiding crossing it for pure fear.
I pass you back the microphone.
Ruben
"Although I know something, I am no big shot in cameras, nor bikes, not nothing, and dream to arise every day of life with the same curiousity as if it was my first."
Your enthusiasm and un-jaded point of view is refreshing Ruben. I always enjoy your post's - though they take forever to read due to your avatar - I keep losing my place in the text as my eyes are drawn back to it again and again! :p
It was Jocko who invented the advertizing concept !!!
Andy, thanks for the link, I will check out their products. Shaft drive bicyles were very popular aorund the turn of the century, (early 1900's). Chain drive is more efficient and offers almost infinite gearing combinations with the use of deraiileurs and cog/chainring selection. New materials and manufacturing may close the efficiency gap of shaft drive.
It was Jocko who invented the advertizing concept !!!
I was merely the daffodil to Ruben's Wordsworth - His work is vastly greater than the inspiration!
Hi Ruben,
As others have stated, applying tiny amounts of lubricant to bicycle bolts will keep them from corroding and siezing up. However, when using any lubricant you need to consider the climate and conditions in which that lubricant will be expected to function.
I've never been to Jerusalem, but if it is a dry and dusty environment then you will want to be very careful applying lubricants to your bicycle (or your camera!). Heat causes lubricants to lose viscosity and they can migrate out of the area in which you applied them. Also, most external lubricants will attract dust like iron filings to a magnet, turning the lubricated surface into a gritty mess in a matter of days.
If I lived in a hot and dry place I wouldn't put any additional lubricants anywhere on my camera unless the service manual said to do so. And then, I would only use a tiny amount. A bicycle can still be ridden if it's covered in dust but it only takes a tiny amount of grit to ruin a camera's delicate mechanisms.
I was merely the daffodil to Ruben's Wordsworth - His work is vastly greater than the inspiration!
Nah..., I just took advantage of Mrs Hallie Berry and Zeiss pre WW2 engineers.
There are corrosion issues specific to aluminum and carbon bikes, (and a combination of the two materials as with Trek), that makes it of paramount importance to lubricate each screw/bolt/nut that contacts the frame.
Nah..., I just took advantage of Mrs Hallie Berry and Zeiss pre WW2 engineers.
What a wonderful thought! :D
Hi Ruben,
As others have stated, applying tiny amounts of lubricant to bicycle bolts will keep them from corroding and siezing up. However, when using any lubricant you need to consider the climate and conditions in which that lubricant will be expected to function.
I've never been to Jerusalem, but if it is a dry and dusty environment then you will want to be very careful applying lubricants to your bicycle (or your camera!). Heat causes lubricants to lose viscosity and they can migrate out of the area in which you applied them. Also, most external lubricants will attract dust like iron filings to a magnet, turning the lubricated surface into a gritty mess in a matter of days.
If I lived in a hot and dry place I wouldn't put any additional lubricants anywhere on my camera unless the service manual said to do so. And then, I would only use a tiny amount. A bicycle can still be ridden if it's covered in dust but it only takes a tiny amount of grit to ruin a camera's delicate mechanisms.
a) Yes, here in Jerusalem it is hot dry and very dusty. But we are talking about the privileges of being pocket poor. It is a $500 bike on one side and the extreme improvement of city riding a bike with a well oiled chain. My few decades experience in city riding tells me loudly that mechanically it depends upon 2 elements: a) oiled chain, b) well inflated tyres. Besides of being dry and dusty, Jerusalem is a hill city. Either oil or muerte.
b) As for cameras, what I have in front of me are my FSU ones, and my beloved Kievs first and foremost. They are built as tanks, could they perform as silk ? (a recent experiment with two of them tell me yes!, but time will speak about oil migration. With my Japanese RFs, I don't dare to go beyond cleaning the interior RF mirrors and glasses. But my OM slrs' winding handles, including a relatively new from factory 4Ti, are loudly begging for oil without doubt, and I know I must abstain of removing a single screw.
c) It is not about becomming oil-happy. It is about fearless analyzing and trying a new concept, to improve our valuable but cheap equipment. Obviously we are not going to experiment and test any $1000 body.
Cheers,
Ruben
The proper torque rating of a bolt depends on the coefficient of friction between the bolt and the mating surface. Changing the C of F can change the torque required to properely tighten a screw or bolt significantly. If a manufacturer says to tighten a fastener while lubricated with oil, grease, graphite, or nothing, you should follow those instructions without interchanging one for the other.
Pherdinand
03-23-2006, 12:07
"how to best maintain your Windows computer."
That's a paradox.
bmattock
03-23-2006, 12:09
I thought this thread was about Star Trek. This is not Star Trek. This is bicycles. Beam me up, Scotty.
Energize,
Bill Mattocks
... If a manufacturer says to tighten a fastener while lubricated with oil, grease, graphite, or nothing, you should follow those instructions without interchanging one for the other.
Sorry to harshly disagree, but the system doesn't work, we have no mommies nor daddies, and therefore we must grow up and listen to our own experience. Thus for example, Kodak's time recommendations for processing Tri-X, as stamped at D-76 or T-max developer are a direct insult to photography. I am pretty sure Trek owners will not come to my bed, nor yours, in case of accident due to malfunction of the bike.
As for not relying on bussiness monger instructions, and relying instead on developing our own experience, that's the main thing the great darkroom master David Vestal (follow up at Amazon.com) tought us. Do it your self, your way. Be critical, and self critical. Develope your eye.
Developing our own senses and experience is among the main reasons for being all of us here, including hearing your interesting point about Coefficient of Friction, to discuss, exchange ideas, experiences and emotions - instead of remaining silent and atomizied at our homes.
Friendly,
Ruben
One word: beeswax (camera and bike screws):
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/miscellaneous/31002.html
- Barrett
Actually, years ago we to use parafin wax on bike chains. Was a bit of a dangerous operation brining parafin to a boil to soak the chain makes it extremely volitile. So when the synthetics were developed - everyone migrated that way.
Would not use beeswax. It isn't "hard" enough and doesn't last long on moving parts (e.g. chains).
Sorry, if my first post came off a bit "harsh" but I was momentarily shocked that anyone would recommend using oil as a lubricant/protectorant on a bicycle.
George, I was always taught that you want to put grease (like Campagnolo lithium grease) on the threads of anything you're tightening down -- such as the bottom bracket cups, pedal threads, or the seatpost bolt -- in order to make sure the metal surfaces don't corrode and fuse together. I agree that moving parts, such as the bicycle chain, are much better served by a synthetic lubricant. (Good old paraffin is great for chains.)
But to Ruben's question about fixed screws, bicycles are exposed to the weather a lot more than cameras are, so there's a need for lubrication. I would not advise lubricating camera screws, simply because there is much less chance of rust on those parts Also, with the fixed screws on a bike, they can be tightened enough so as to overcome the possibility that the lubricant can cause the screws to loosen. Camera screws are too small and delicate to tighten to that degree. And finally, any camera repair book will tell you that lubrication of camera parts is, with rare exceptions, a Bad Idea, and so you want to avoid oil or grease migrating to places it's not welcome.
I do stand corrected regarding derailleur screws and brake and seat bolts etc. - you are correct that a little dab of Campy white lithium grease on the threads will prevent corrosion and make removal etc. easy.
But for chains (and I do ride in the Northeast US - Copake is in Upstate NY) I exclusively use White Lightening (a brand of wet/dry synthetic lubricant). Some prefer Pedro's and other use Finnish Line but I don't know anyone these days who uses oil or grease on a chain. (Besides, who wants "Frankestein" calves when you mistakely lean the chainrings against your leg?)
Now, I'm not taliking about casual riders of "department store" bikes - but about folks whose bikes well exceed the price of Leica M7's with a couple of Leitz lenses!
No way I'm putting 3-in-1 grade oil on my bike chain!
amateriat
03-23-2006, 13:42
Decent points, Ruben...although I try my best not to get too atomized at home until after my second glass of wine...
- Barrett
Sorry to harshly disagree, but the system doesn't work, we have no mommies nor daddies, and therefore we must grow up and listen to our own experience. Thus for example, Kodak's time recommendations for processing Tri-X, as stamped at D-76 or T-max developer are a direct insult to photography. I am pretty sure Trek owners will not come to my bed, nor yours, in case of accident due to malfunction of the bike.
As for not relying on bussiness monger instructions, and relying instead on developing our own experience, that's the main thing the great darkroom master David Vestal (follow up at Amazon.com) tought us. Do it your self, your way. Be critical, and self critical. Develope your eye.
Developing our own senses and experience is among the main reasons for being all of us here, including hearing your interesting point about Coefficient of Friction, to discuss, exchange ideas, experiences and emotions - instead of remaining silent and atomizied at our homes.
Friendly,
Ruben
Wow, I hope you never have to turn a bolt on a critical system --at least one that my life depends upon.
Sorry to harshly disagree, but the system doesn't work, we have no mommies nor daddies, and therefore we must grow up and listen to our own experience. Thus for example, Kodak's time recommendations for processing Tri-X, as stamped at D-76 or T-max developer are a direct insult to photography. I am pretty sure Trek owners will not come to my bed, nor yours, in case of accident due to malfunction of the bike.
As for not relying on bussiness monger instructions, and relying instead on developing our own experience, that's the main thing the great darkroom master David Vestal (follow up at Amazon.com) tought us. Do it your self, your way. Be critical, and self critical. Develope your eye.
Developing our own senses and experience is among the main reasons for being all of us here, including hearing your interesting point about Coefficient of Friction, to discuss, exchange ideas, experiences and emotions - instead of remaining silent and atomizied at our homes.
Friendly,
Ruben
Rueben,
First of all - get a grip on this - TREK only makes the frame. They do not make the components - nor (in all likelihood) do they make the fork.
They do not make the seat or handlebar posts, nor do they make the handlebars and headsets etc.
They also do not make the wheel set - not the rims, nor the spoke, nor the hubs!
Okay, got that?
So what the heck do you mean when you say "Trek recommends...?"
I read your other post - and you can pour a quart of oil into the gears of your Kiev 4AM wind advance to make is "smooth". Let us know what happens is a week or two when all that oil starts leaking throughout the body! [http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=261685#post261685]
Frankly, you not only do not know "everything" but you know very little!
Having been a bike mechanic in my younger years, I can say that if you don't use some kind of lubricant (not oil, though) during assembly and maintenance, you're asking for trouble later. Trek isn't recommending lubrication just for the fun of it or to avoid lawsuits (for the record, I own Trek and Specialized road bikes along with a Gary Fisher mountain bike).
Descending steep hills at 40 mph is hair-raising enough without adding potential failures from improper maintenance to the mix. But, hey, it's your bike and your neck. Far be it from me to suggest a course of action.
I won't speak for camera repair or maintenance as I know nothing in this area.
Having been a bike mechanic in my younger years, I can say that if you don't use some kind of lubricant (not oil, though) during assembly and maintenance, you're asking for trouble later. Trek isn't recommending lubrication just for the fun of it or to avoid lawsuits (for the record, I own Trek and Specialized road bikes along with a Gary Fisher mountain bike).
Descending steep hills at 40 mph is hair-raising enough without adding potential failures from improper maintenance to the mix. But, hey, it's your bike and your neck. Far be it from me to suggest a course of action.
I won't speak for camera repair or maintenance as I know nothing in this area.
I never said do not use a lubricant!
I said I would NEVER put oil all over my chain!
I've been riding for several decades, okay. And I know a hell of a lot about bicyle maintenance.
And if you haven't been involved with cycling for some time then I suggest you revisit the field.
For example, would you even dare to put oil on a carbon fiber chain?
Criminy!
What's all the fuss? Dougs comments were cordial. Ruben is riding a $500 Trek, right? No exotic materials to worry about. The most elite racers I have know don't really care what lube is used on their bikes, as long as they work perfectly. It's like arguing about cases and BP finish, at some point the idea was to use cameras for taking pictures. Let's all go out today and put in 50 kilometers on our bikes ;).
ClaremontPhoto
03-24-2006, 04:29
WD40 works fine on my bike.
I've been cycling for nearly 40 years. I am a member of the CTC (http://www.ctc.org.uk/) GB (Cycle Touring Club). Almost every cyclist I know uses oil on their chain. A good cyclist cleans and maintains their cycle(s) regularly, therefore dust and muck does not build up. I have two bikes at the moment, a Dawes Republic which is my main form of transport and an old Raleigh touring cycle which I bought in 1979 which I use for longer rides. Both have oiled chains, both are as good as the day they were bought.
Damn, guess I'm not a 'serious' cyclist.
I've been cycling for nearly 40 years. I am a member of the CTC (http://www.ctc.org.uk/) GB (Cycle Touring Club). Almost every cyclist I know uses oil on their chain. A good cyclist cleans and maintains their cycle(s) regularly, therefore dust and muck does not build up. I have two bikes at the moment, a Dawes Republic which is my main form of transport and an old Raleigh touring cycle which I bought in 1979 which I use for longer rides. Both have oiled chains, both are as good as the day they were bought.
Damn, guess I'm not a 'serious' cyclist.
Counting childhood, I've been riding for nearly 50 years. I am a member of numerous cycling clubs and organization (e.g. Mid-Hudson Bike Club, Bike New York, Greater Arizona Bicycle Association , Adventure Cycling etc.)
I have almost as many bikes as cameras (well - at least if I include my wife's).
Presently, in NY, I mainly ride a CAAD 5 frame Cannondale with Shimano DuraAce components using a 9-speed index system with dual chainring crankset. In AZ I upgraded a much older Cannondale to primarily DuraAce with some Ultegra components (e.g. crankset is Ultegra) but it remains an older "freewheel" system.
Oh, and for nostalgia's sake a couple of years ago I acquired a NOS steel Guerciotti frameset and built it up with a mixture of traditional and current Campy Super Record components - classic Cinelli hanglebars and a modern Pave seat.
I am now hoping to have a custome-built carbon fiber frameset built by Serotta (a local upstate NY frame builder who has built a very fine reputation world-wide) on which I will "hang" full DuraAce componentry.
You see, Andy, I don't talk about bikes, I talk about frames/framesets and componentry and I NEVER put oil on a bike chain! ;)
You see, Andy, I don't talk about bikes, I talk about frames/framesets and componentry and I NEVER put oil on a bike chain! ;)
Oh I see... owning a lot of bikes and memorising a parts manual is what makes a cyclist. And there I was thinking it was actually cycling that makes a cyclist.
Oh I see... owning a lot of bikes and memorising a parts manual is what makes a cyclist. And there I was thinking it was actually cycling that makes a cyclist.
Say, tell you what Andy, why don't you come out to Arizona for a visit this November. You can join me for El Tour de Tucson. It's a 112-mile ride - are you up for it?
EDIT: Here's the website look in lower right hand corner of top banner for the Tour.
http://www.pbaa.com/Home.html
Say, tell you what Andy, why don't you come out to Arizona for a visit this November. You can join me for El Tour de Tucson. It's a 112-mile ride - are you up for it?
Every second year I cycle to Wales and back, it's a 500 mile round trip. I have also followed in my father's tyre tracks and cycled the Rheine from through Holland into Germany as far as Cologne and back.
Every second year I cycle to Wales and back, it's a 500 mile round trip.
The "Tour" is a one-day ride. ;)
The "Tour" is a one-day ride. ;)
......And?
......And?
Hey, I gave you the web address. Sign up for El Tour and I'll be there - have been for the past four years since I learned of it.
[Damn, and after I promised the better half that I'd scale back to the 65-miler from the 112! Me and my big mouth.!]
Oh, BTW, Andy, the 112-miler includes 2 portages and....well let's just say the AZ has mountains and desert head winds. See ya' in November! :cool:
Oh, BTW, Andy, the 112-miler includes 2 portages and....well let's just say the AZ has mountains and desert head winds. See ya' in November! :cool:
Yes, Wales is so notoriously flat. :rolleyes:
No you won't see me in November, sadly (although I didn't know it at the time) I made my last trip to the US in August 2001. I will not be returning for the foreseeable future. (For reasons which would take this thread waaay off topic). Which is a shame as I have yet to see Monument Valley, Yosemite and the Rocky Mountains.
Byuphoto
03-24-2006, 07:23
Here we go again. Can't we all get along and just take photos
Yes, Wales is so notoriously flat. :rolleyes:
....
Hey, I saw that movie: "The Man Who Went Up a Hill; and Came Down a Mountain".
That was in Wales right? What was it, all of 1000 feet after they added some dirt? :p
Too bad you won't/can't come and ride - but that means I can go back to the 65-miler, whew! :)
KoNickon
03-24-2006, 07:31
Guys, knock it off. I'm sure you're both serious cyclists, and I need to get back to it myself. I'm also sure that different types of lubricants will work fine for bike chains. There are issues of the amount of dust they attract (a concern for Ruben) and how well they work in wetter climates (like Wales). But if Ruben is looking at a manual for his Trek bike (though it's "only" a $500 bike) that says use oil, that's interesting. I'm not sure I agree with that advice, but he knows what the manual says (maybe a bad translation?).
We're a long way from rangefinders, but the common thread seems to be serious attention to equipment and a need to puff out our chests.
Here we go again. Can't we all get along and just take photos
Andy and I are just funnin' . :angel:
Hey, I saw that movie: "The Man Who Went Up a Hill; and Came Down a Mountain".
That was in Wales right? What was it, all of 1000 feet after they added some dirt? :p
I suggest you Google 'Snowdonia'. Even in mid-Wales there are few if any flats, mostly you are cycling gradients, some gentle, some 1:4, some you have to climb, sometimes in rain, sometimes in fog, but in summer mostly in glorious sunshine.
Ps. No one shouting here Byu.
I suggest you Google 'Snowdonia'. Even in mid-Wales there are few if any flats, mostly you are cycling gradients, some gentle, some 1:4, some you have to climb, sometimes in rain, sometimes in fog, but in summer mostly in glorious sunshine.
Ps. No one shouting here Byu.
Hmmm.....sounds like fun.
Kind of like this?
http://www.pbaa.com/!ETT/eltourmap.htm#Elevation
Unfortuately, in November in Tucson it's unlikely you'd experience rain or fog - but we can usually arrange 30+ MPH headwinds on parts of the route. That's when I look for a tandem to draft! ;)
Oh, BTW, the Dawes is a "classic" touring bike. They don't sell many on this side of the pond so I've only seen a few over the years.
Our touring bikes are 20+ year old Cannondales (i.e. early era aluminum frames) that have similar geometry to the classic English touring cycles. Nowadays we mainly use them in early season (like now) to get back in cycling in shape because they are have good low gear range and a very comfortable ride (I call them our "station wagons") :)
Nowadays we mainly use them in early season (like now) to get back in cycling in shape because they are have good low gear range and a very comfortable ride (I call them our "station wagons") :)
I prefer to stay in shape throughout winter. On the days when it is too icy to cycle out I use my Turbo Trainer (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Misc%20Odds%20n%20Sods/Ttrainer2.jpg).
Andy, how do you combat boredom on the trainer? I've tried 'em, but went back to rollers as they are a bit more interesting to ride. A walkman or ipod helps, but nothing beats the road.
Andy, how do you combat boredom on the trainer? I've tried 'em, but went back to rollers as they are a bit more interesting to ride. A walkman or ipod helps, but nothing beats the road.
Do it in front of the TV, put in a DVD. I usually watch a film (today's was 'King Arthur'). You can also buy 'Trainer DVDs' where you see a road in front of you. Some people might like that but personally I would rather watch a movie. But as I said, I prefer to go out on the road, even in the dead of winter. No 'fair weather' cyclist here! ;)
I never said do not use a lubricant!
I said I would NEVER put oil all over my chain!
I've been riding for several decades, okay. And I know a hell of a lot about bicyle maintenance.
And if you haven't been involved with cycling for some time then I suggest you revisit the field.
For example, would you even dare to put oil on a carbon fiber chain?
Criminy!
Sorry, George. We're both saying the same thing; my comments weren't directed towards you at all but rather towards a different post which I neglected to quote. My bad.
Sorry, George. We're both saying the same thing; my comments weren't directed towards you at all but rather towards a different post which I neglected to quote. My bad.
Actually, I think it was my bad and I apologize.
Keep on riding - that's what's most important! ;)
I prefer to stay in shape throughout winter. On the days when it is too icy to cycle out I use my Turbo Trainer (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/Misc%20Odds%20n%20Sods/Ttrainer2.jpg).
The problem I have here in the Northeast US is the damned salt and sand they lay all over the roads!!
I'm not an "eager" cold weather cyclist to begin with - but in these parts even a "dusting" of snow will bring out the plows and salt/sand spreaders all winter long (guess the Highway boys make a lot of overtime pay that way) so the roads are "sh*t" all winter long.
Long term plan is for Tucson (where we now have a house) to be our wintertime "escape". Problem is - still have to "work for a living".
But soon, oh yes, soon - year round riding in good weather is in store for me - Upstate NY during the "summertime" months and Tucson in the winter. Oh, plus the chance to do international bike tours.
It's true: Work is the curse of the riding classes! :(
It's true: Work is the curse of the riding classes! :(
Amen to that! If the weather ever warms up I think I'll start riding to work just to get some miles in for a change.
Amen to that! If the weather ever warms up I think I'll start riding to work just to get some miles in for a change.
Doug,
Have you ever done TOSRV?
It's been on my ride "to do" list for about 12 million years now....
Nope, sure haven't, but it looks like fun, have to add that one to my ride list. I'll be doing fantastic if I can get my sorry butt back in shape enough to do the Emerald Necklace this year.
ClaremontPhoto
03-24-2006, 22:26
I always use WD40 on my bike's moving parts.
Not trying to hijack the thread here, but are any NJ-NY-CT-MA cyclists planning to ride the Five Boro Bike Tour on May 7? Might be a neat opportunity to combine some cycling with a post-ride RF Forum get-together back in Manhattan.
But my OM slrs' winding handles, including a relatively new from factory 4Ti
OK, I'm gonna be sick. Yossarian, did you read that? "relatively new from factory 4Ti"?
Don't touch it, Ruben, but maybe write to John Hermanson at Camtech and ask him what he thinks.
Earl
Byuphoto
03-25-2006, 08:11
Andy and I are just funnin' . :angel:
The first few posts do not come across like that and you jumped in with both feet to stomp on the thread and assert your vast knowledge and experience to mere mortals. You might want to look at how you came into the thread. Both of you have a distinct "My way or no way" attitude. Unintentional or not that is the way it comes across to me. My.02 worth and have a nice day
OK, I'm gonna be sick. Yossarian, did you read that? "relatively new from factory 4Ti"?
Don't touch it, Ruben, but maybe write to John Hermanson at Camtech and ask him what he thinks.
Earl
Without understanding what's between you and Yossarian regarding this issue, I said I am not going to touch any OM slrs, including that 4Ti.
Now, could you be so kind as to detail a bit what I and perhaps others are missing about you and Yossarian and the 4Ti ?
Cheers,
Ruben
I think it was just lust ;).
The first few posts do not come across like that and you jumped in with both feet to stomp on the thread and assert your vast knowledge and experience to mere mortals. You might want to look at how you came into the thread. Both of you have a distinct "My way or no way" attitude. Unintentional or not that is the way it comes across to me. My.02 worth and have a nice day
Geez, if both of the folks you think are going "at it" tell you they are just joshing each other - why did you post this response?
Byuphoto
03-25-2006, 11:49
Geez, if both of the folks you think are going "at it" tell you they are just joshing each other - why did you post this response?
I am telling you your first posts don't come off like joshing.
Here's my first post.
I always grease screws and bolts, it prevents them seizing up. As for chains, why not just get rid of the chain (http://www.ethicalwebsites.co.uk/zero/index.php)...
Not trying to hijack the thread here, but are any NJ-NY-CT-MA cyclists planning to ride the Five Boro Bike Tour on May 7? Might be a neat opportunity to combine some cycling with a post-ride RF Forum get-together back in Manhattan.
Nice suggestion. Since my wife and I come up from Manhattan to the country every week in large part for quiet cycling I'll pass. I did the 5-Boro a couple of times years ago and it is definitely something to do if you've never done it before. Riding down the BQE (i.e. Brooklyn-Queens Expressway for the non-NYers) is a treat.
The group that organizes the 5-Boro is Bike New York. They now also sponosr a ride in July up in our not-so-quiet corner of the world every July called the Harlem Valley Rail Trail Ride (although it only uses a bit of the Rail Trail). Last July was the second annual and it attracted close to 2000 riders. Check out their website (don't have the site address right here but an easy Google away if you enter "Bike New York").
It takes place in late July. The ride goes through the tri-state NY/MA/CT region and I highly recommend it. If folks are interested in a "RFF Contigent" let me know. They do a big barbecue/festival at ride end and we could easily gather there.
Supposed to be decent weather tomorrow - so I hope to be on the road at last! :)
I am telling you your first posts don't come off like joshing.
Rick,
This the last I'll say on the matter.
"What's it to ya'?"
We have site moderators.....
yossarian
03-25-2006, 17:07
OK, I'm gonna be sick. Yossarian, did you read that? "relatively new from factory 4Ti"?
Don't touch it, Ruben, but maybe write to John Hermanson at Camtech and ask him what he thinks.
Earl
I'm ignoring you and looking at Ruben's avatar...
I just remembered my greatest bicycle adventure, plunging down Savoy Street on
my single-speed Schwinn Corvette with coaster brakes and pegging my Borg Warner
speedometer at 50mph. I'm not altogether sure how I lived through it, but here I am.
Fred
yossarian
03-25-2006, 17:35
I am telling you your first posts don't come off like joshing.
Hey, Brother Rick, you promised me you were gonna take care of your heart. You want me to yell at George for a while? It won't make any difference 'cause he just
ignores me, but I could still call him some bad names--you need to take care of yourself.
Fred
Hey...isn't "Avatar" that movie about Howard Hughes?
Hey, Brother Rick, you promised me you were gonna take care of your heart. You want me to yell at George for a while? It won't make any difference 'cause he just
ignores me, but I could still call him some bad names--you need to take care of yourself.
Fred
Hey...isn't "Avatar" that movie about Howard Hughes?
Fred,
Yell away!
You can call me all kinds of bad names - but remember Jorge's rules - just don't call me late for dinner! :eek:
Or, come to think of it, cocktails either..... :)
yossarian
03-25-2006, 17:49
Fred,
Yell away!
You can call me all kinds of bad names - but remember Jorge's rules - just don't call me late for dinner! :eek:
Or, come to think of it, cocktails either..... :)
Not to worry George, I always remember my Emily Post when I'm cussin' somebody out.
Not to worry George, I always remember my Emily Post when I'm cussin' somebody out.
Fred,
Queensbury Rules are fine.
BTW: my bike guy is visiting this weekend. I told him about using oil on a chain.
After he got done ROTFLHisAO he did tell me I should quit with the White Lightening stuff.
He now recommends:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=103&subcategory=1121&brand=&sku=2592&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
This ain't no 30W-50! :D
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