View Full Version : Oooohhh my God....
Don Parsons
03-11-2006, 15:55
Had a two-day trip late last week where I got to go to a big name Camera Store and handle a recently overhauled M-4.
Oh my God was it sweet! Felt like a dream in my hands. I've been shooting for 30 years, never had a Leica. I've used Pentax, Nikon, Canon and Digital Canons but have never felt so , um.......rewarded?, as when I lined up those images in the viewfinder.
They want $1250 for it, which I felt was just a shade high.
Whaddya think?
Brian Sweeney
03-11-2006, 16:03
If it is in EX+ or better condition, just overhauled, it is "inline" with prices.
You could always offer less, they can just say "no". Exploit the "exodus to digital".
xayraa33
03-11-2006, 17:18
it will not be a shade high in a few years.
MCTuomey
03-11-2006, 21:50
"Put your hands up. Hand over your wallet."
Don, the price is not bad, maybe a touch high, but only maybe $100 or so, imho. Maybe. However you price it, I sense that you've been victimized, but not by the seller.
Hah, another soul at the portals of the dark side! Repent now, escape while ye may.
wlewisiii
03-11-2006, 21:52
Grab. Run. Giggle...
Worst case, you'll get your investment back...
William
richard_l
03-11-2006, 22:02
I don't think $1250 is too much for an M4 in good condition.
only $150 more for a black zeiss ikon...
only $150 more for a black zeiss ikon... I'm absolutely sure that the Ikon is a fabulous piece of equipment and a wonderful tool for photographers, but will you please stop posting these nonsense comments of yours?
Give us facts instead of ranting around like this; "black. zeiss. ikon.", "only $1400" and so on.
you can look them up easily.
http://www.zeissikon.com/
http://www.cameraquest.com/zeiss_ikon_m.TA.htm
if my antipathy toward leica lust bothers people, then i've succeeded in disrupting said lust, which otherwise might have driven the weak to grave errors of judgement.
i am only a messenger. farewell...
:angel:
nope. it's one of those new-fangled "you could have a better camera than that" things.
fine distinctions, man...they make all the difference. hehehe.
weren't we talking about the discussion? in any case, where did i say or suggest that photographs are unimportant? by placing importance on tools? how do you make the connection?
only in a vacuum can you say that one camera is not better than another, to some degree or another. in the real world, differences make a difference.
what camera do you have? maybe i could recommend the zeiss ikon...
as an aside, the aim is never only *to produce* a photograph. another aim is the photograph itself. lol, i just came up with that one.
because the other person's not listening or because it actually makes no difference if i'm using a 75 'lux wide open and close up on a bessa r2a instead of a .85x m7? or using a 28mm lens on a zeiss ikon versus a .72x leica m, while wearing glasses? or shooting in situations that cause rf spot flare with an m6 instead of an mp?
this is trotted out all the time, and if it were true, people wouldn't be off making all of these different cameras. horses for courses. if the shoe fits wear it! one size does not fit all. this is basically what these threads are about. do these jeans fit me?
yup. and for any given amount of money, it's good to know your options.
noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
:bang:
I'd probably go with an M3 but if the M4 is "floating your boat" then go for it! Other wise, welcome to the dark side of the force.
Glenn
Had a two-day trip late last week where I got to go to a big name Camera Store and handle a recently overhauled M-4.
Oh my God was it sweet! Felt like a dream in my hands. I've been shooting for 30 years, never had a Leica. I've used Pentax, Nikon, Canon and Digital Canons but have never felt so , um.......rewarded?, as when I lined up those images in the viewfinder.
They want $1250 for it, which I felt was just a shade high.
Whaddya think?
blah. just buy this m4, wait for the lust to subside, regain your senses, sell it for an even $1400, and then pick up a black zeiss ikon.
I give up. I just wrote a long answer to Aizans meaningless posts, but I realized the uselessness of it. Obviously, Aizan is only posting here to annoy people, not to present reasonable arguments for his position.
What makes you think that a ZI is the better choice of the two, Aizan?
MCTuomey
03-12-2006, 04:59
blah. just buy this m4, wait for the lust to subside, regain your senses, sell it for an even $1400, and then pick up a black zeiss ikon.
what term might describe an obsessive regard for an object, in this case a zeiss ikon camera?
Ans: zeiss ikon lust
Don Parsons
03-12-2006, 05:31
Thanks for your help guys. I was just wondering if the price was inline for the camera.
Unfortunately, my wife just gave me a baby girl a month ago, so the $1,800 +/- the camera/lense combo would set me back is just a little too much right now :(
I haven't yielded to the dark side yet....but i'm close.
sunsworth
03-12-2006, 05:38
"...it actually makes no difference if i'm using a 75 'lux wide open and close up on a bessa r2a instead of a .85x m7?"
The only diference I can think of is that your images are likely to be out of focus using the Bessa ;-)
Steve
harry01562
03-12-2006, 09:12
The individual is the primary factor in this "discussion". Tastes and needs vary, and even change with time or other factors. Ultimately, if a camera feels right, and takes pics that please, that is all we can ask of it.
The choice for one is not the choice for all. Most of us are adults, and aware of the equipment choices that exist. The gratuitous postings that are intended to start useless back & forths are really out of place, IMHO.
Harry
Unfortunately, my wife just gave me a baby girl a month ago, so the $1,800 +/- the camera/lense combo would set me back is just a little too much right now :(
All of the previous discussions have just become obsolete.
Which is better, the Leica or the Zeis?
Well, it is the baby of couse (and everyone who disagrees has his/her priorities wrong).
Don, if you do have your priorities wrong, I'll trade the baby for an M6 :D
mad_boy
... I've been shooting for 30 years, never had a Leica. ...
[[devil on your left shoulder speaking here] you owe it to yourself. ;) Are there better deals, other options, wiser ways to spend your money? Sure there are. The feel of that M4 will haunt you from here on out. Buy it, use it. :) :) [devil over and out]
.
Don, don't take the hi-jacking of your thread personally ;). We're a good bunch and you're welcome here whatever you decide, even if you keep on using your SLR's.
Don Parsons
03-12-2006, 11:27
Thanks Harry, and most of the rest of you. I really like it here and feel at home. It's not like I don't have a couple rangefinders that I can use, it's just that the M4 felt so good and that viewfinder, man, what a thing of beauty.
But my daughter is the real thing of beauty and as much as I like the M4, there will always be another one.
This is my only daughter..... :)
back alley
03-12-2006, 11:41
what a cutie!
Wayne R. Scott
03-12-2006, 11:52
Don,
Spend the $1800 on film and processing, taking photos of your daughter. 20 years from now when she has left home you will be glad you did. What price do we put on memories?
It seems like it was just yesterday that my little girl was the size of yours.
Wayne
P.S. Leica M4's aren't all that great. By the way, exactly where in St. Louis is this one located? I have to go to MO. for business next month ;) .
Honu-Hugger
03-12-2006, 12:14
Beautiful little girl Don, and a lovely photo.
As for the camera, there will always be another opportunity later (I'm so O/C I can hardly believe I wrote that :D).
Cheers,
obsolete? i thought i made some good points.
emilgil, do i really have to spell out why the zeiss ikon is for most intents and purposes better than an m4? have you read those two links? you wanted facts, you got facts. i'm here to annoy *and* educate.
i do want a zeiss ikon, and i'll get one after i get a dslr, but my motivations are completely different from lusting after a leica. think of it as getting married to the wrong person in las vegas, getting divorced in spite of that hot bod, and finally finding the right spouse.
leica lust...or zeiss ikon luv?
in any case, i had no intention of derailing this thread. just dropping a notice that the zeiss ikon is basically the same price. after that, i had to respond to emilgil's inflammatory comment, which then became a good dialogue, i think, with maccaulay.
awwww yeah, biatch. it's ON.
:D
Don Parsons
03-12-2006, 12:47
Wayne,
The M4 isn't in St Louis. It's on the left coast....
Thanks for the kind and thoughtful words. My son is already 8, seems like he was born yesterday.
I considered the Zeiss Ikon as it was in the store right next to the Leica. I just liked the Leica better.
don
>>>P.S. Leica M4's aren't all that great. By the way, exactly where in St. Louis is this one located? I have to go to MO. for business next month ;) <<<
leica lust...or zeiss ikon luv?
Not ZI Luv, all out ZI lust.
Or just being a troll.
Enjoy your camera and let others enjoy theirs aizan.
nobody's gotten anything yet, him or me. i've never tut-tutted anyone after they'd already gotten a camera, as far as i remember. and i know i'm not lusting after the zeiss ikon because i'm lusting after the perfect leica, which is an even better fantasy than any real leica because it doesn't exist. no cold, hard reality to confront. :D
my original post was a dry observation, and my response to emilgil's post didn't result in a flame war. neither did my discussion in the m6 vs. m7 thread (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19798). so don't call *me* a troll! it's like politicians calling each other nazis. if you look at emilgil's posting history, it's evident that he's just a touchy guy.
Brian Sweeney
03-12-2006, 14:57
Thanks for your help guys. I was just wondering if the price was inline for the camera.
Unfortunately, my wife just gave me a baby girl a month ago, so the $1,800 +/- the camera/lense combo would set me back is just a little too much right now :(
I haven't yielded to the dark side yet....but i'm close.
If $1,800 is too much for the Combination, then look for a User condition M3 or M2. That, with a good Summarit, Summicron, or Summitar+M adapter should run you well under $1,000- camera, lens, and CLA. There have been some good user M3's and M2's here at RFF for $500~$600, coated Summitars have run well under $150. They are great for existing light shots, something you will be doing a lot of with that new daughter.
I've handles an M4; great camera. The M3's and M2's feel every bit as good, and cost about 1/2. I keep an extra take up spool, pre-threaded in the bag. Makes loading just as fast as the quick-load system in one of the M3's.
Don Parsons
03-12-2006, 15:35
Brian,
The reason I'll probably get an M4 is for the 35mm framelines. The 35/90 was my favorite combination a long time ago when I was a PJ. I also like the canted rewind crank as opposed to the pull-up knob. Those two are the big issues for me. I can get by with an m2 it's take-up spool.
don
obsolete? i thought i made some good points.
emilgil, do i really have to spell out why the zeiss ikon is for most intents and purposes better than an m4? have you read those two links? you wanted facts, you got facts. i'm here to annoy *and* educate.
i do want a zeiss ikon, and i'll get one after i get a dslr, but my motivations are completely different from lusting after a leica. think of it as getting married to the wrong person in las vegas, getting divorced in spite of that hot bod, and finally finding the right spouse.
leica lust...or zeiss ikon luv?
in any case, i had no intention of derailing this thread. just dropping a notice that the zeiss ikon is basically the same price. after that, i had to respond to emilgil's inflammatory comment, which then became a good dialogue, i think, with maccaulay.As I've tried to tell you, being an engineer I prefer facts, not unsupported claims.
Let's drop this debate here, at least I will, and congrat Don to his cute little daughter. I'm sure he will find a camera that suits him.
Regards,
Emil
still ignoring the multitude of "facts" on those two links...could have gone somewhere if only you'd read them.
i know. but i no longer lust for any existing leica models...just the ones i've photoshopped up!
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