View Full Version : About ready to take the plunge
MelanieC
03-09-2006, 17:36
OK. So I have this film to develop, sitting there waiting for me to work up the guts to Do It Myself.
I have developer (D-76), stop bath, fixer, and "Photo-Flo" to avoid spots when drying (this reminds me of that stuff you put in the dishwasher to facilitate rinsing).
I have plastic measuring cups, funnels, and clean plastic juice bottles to put used solutions in.
I have a bathroom that has no windows and that is behind two doors so no light will get in.
I have a kit that includes a tank, two reels, a thermometer, and two clips for hanging film.
I went to the hardware store and bought eye bolts, a lightweight chain, and two snaps for the ends of the chain. The chain so I can be sure if I hang multiple negatives they won't slide into each other and touch, and the snaps so I can take the chain down when I'm not using it (or if I want to shower without it hanging over my head).
I have a book that claims to be the Ansel Adams guide to photography, although it was not written by Ansel Adams, and the trilogy that was written by Ansel Adams to guide me, in case I get lost.
I have a roll of icky cheap expired film to practice loading my reels with.
I think that's everything I need. Now all that's left is to hang the chain and get on with it. Wish me luck!
Luck?
Just take a deep breath and enjoy. It is fun and easy.
I found that when I bought a changing bag I was more apt to load the reels and get ready to process. With the changing bag you can do that part while watching TV, or doing anything else you want to/can. Not being in the dark helps me too.
Enjoy Melanie. There is so much satisfaction and achievement in doing your own darkroom work.
back alley
03-09-2006, 17:52
do you have weighted hangers for the bottom of the film as it hangs drying?
MelanieC
03-09-2006, 17:55
I have two clips -- I figured I can put one at the bottom and hang by the other?
I'm sitting here messing with this reel, and have come to the first roadblock. I can't get the halves to come apart. The instructions (blessedly included with this used kit) are not very helpful. As a pirate would say, argh.
back alley
03-09-2006, 18:03
plastic?
just twist each outer rim in the opposite direction.
a weighted clip at the bottom is best.
mitspooner
03-09-2006, 18:03
if they are like mine, you need to force them a little bit till you hear a click. but no real reson to take then apart unless you need to change the size.
Melanie,
You sound well prepared. Don't be afraid to make a mistake or two. It won't take long to get the hang of it, though. Once you pull the first developed roll off the reel and see that it actually works you will be hooked. Very satisfying.
Robert
MelanieC
03-09-2006, 18:06
They're plastic. I managed to get one of them apart and put it back together but it seems harder than it needs to be. The other one isn't aligned right and I can't get it aligned right but I'm sure the solution is right in front of me and I just don't see it. I'm not good with fiddly things -- my little dog popped a key off my laptop once and it took me literally 90 minutes to get the thing back on correctly.
Thanks guys! You're the best.
You will love it. Over the years I have developed scores of rolls of film and I still get a kick out of loading a reel and souping it.
Just to complicate things, you may want to invest in a steel tank and reels. I have never been able to use those plastic reels, loading steel reels is much easier for me. Some folks swear by the plastic reels, I just swear at them.
mitspooner
03-09-2006, 18:22
just follow the grooves on the side of the inner barrel. they are set up for other sizes. A quick hint premix most of your chemistry and have it at the ready.
MelanieC
03-09-2006, 18:41
Oh, I've now discovered problem #2. I can pull the reels apart, but they don't come apart in the right place, in other words, one side pops off without bringing the inner core with it. Hmmm.
mitspooner
03-09-2006, 18:51
do they look like this?
If so it's all good!!
Just did my first at home last night and I'm still on a high...a few newbie notes:
1) By holding the plastic reel in your left hand with the film opening facing you, a sharp twist away from you with your right hand (clockwise) will allow you to open the reel. Mine are new and tight, so it does take a pretty firm twist. Just opposite to put it back together, again it may take a pretty firm counterclockwise twist to get it back to the loading stage.
2) The black bag is excellent, you can take your time without being blinded.
3) If you have a camera that allows you to take the exposed film out without winding the leader back into the spool, do so. You can trim the leader in the light, then just throw it into the bag. Once in the bag just pull out 8" or so, load the end into the reel and a couple of oscillations and you'll feel the film cassette come up against your thumbs. Then you can just pull another 8" or so, and repeat until the end. You can use scissors, but a sharp rip with your fingers will tear the film off the cassette. This may seem dumb to experienced guys, but I found at the school darkroom that the film can twist when you are loading onto the spool, which forces you to rewind. Leaving the film in the cassette just seems to keep it nice and straight.
4) The pre-mixing and organizing beforehand mentioned above is the best advice of all.
Good luck, my negs came out fantastic, I'm sure yours will as well.
Mike
PS: One mistake in my class was concerning two reel tanks.....one guy made the mistake of putting the reel with the film on top of the empty reel, instead of below, then used only enough chemical for one reel. Needless to say, the film wasn't sitting in the developer!
Practising with an expired film is a very good idea, I did it at least 10 times. And if you're loading in the darkroom, practise with your eyes shut.....
mitspooner
03-09-2006, 19:25
before you hang your flim make sure that you have enough room. My bathroom is 6 inches to small and it sucks trying to find a place last second. Read the bottom of your tank that will give all the measuments you need.
MelanieC
03-09-2006, 19:37
Nope. Unfortunately, they look like this:
back alley
03-09-2006, 19:47
that's a broken reel
mitspooner
03-09-2006, 19:49
yeap!!! that's broken time to return for exchange.
MelanieC
03-09-2006, 19:56
They're both broken then. Well, that sucks but I guess it would explain why I got this setup for $3.75 on eBay. Caveat emptor!
I'll head down to the closest camera shop tomorrow and get some new reels, and then we're cookin'!
Thanks again guys. You rule.
Kim Coxon
03-10-2006, 00:54
Break a leg as the saying goes. Be prepared for a great feeling when you see the results of the first succesful roll!
Kim
PS
I must remember to read all the pages in the morning and not just the first one DOH! :bang:
I agree with Kevin regarding stainless steel reels. I used plastic (Paterson) when I started out and ended up hating them and ditching them. SS seems harder when you first use one, but once you practice with a waste roll a few times, you get the hang of it and the film almost "walks" itself on the reel.
Plus, solution quantities for SS tanks are smaller and in increments (~500ml per roll of 35mm) that are easier to mix.
Earl
Are you saying SS tanks (uh, that would be stainless steel tanks.. SS tanks sounds weird) need 500ml per roll of 35mm film? Perhaps I misunderstand, but my Paterson (plastic) only needs 290ml per roll.
MinorTones
03-10-2006, 04:50
You got developer, stop bath and photo flow. You are missing the hypo clear. It stops the action of the fixer, which is a pretty important step. :)
After you pick some of that up, have fun.
Seeing those wet negatives pulled out of the fixer, and knowing you did it all right is a rewarding experience.
-Mitch
markinlondon
03-10-2006, 05:28
You got developer, stop bath and photo flow. You are missing the hypo clear. It stops the action of the fixer, which is a pretty important step. :)
-Mitch
Mitch, Melanie,
hypo clear is not required for roll film, washing dilutes the fixer so much that it stops. Anyway, overfixing within reason is not that much of a problem with modern emulsions. Hypo clear really comes into its own with fibre papers which soak up huge amounts of fixer where it helps to speed up the washing process (which is still pretty darn long).
Mark
If your've started with plastic, stick with plastic. I've used both and prefer the plastic reels and tanks. Why cough up another odd $20 for a new tank and reel set when you just starting out, where as a another plastic reel might cost $2 to $5. If you get the the hang of it and curious, give stainless steel tanks and reels a go.
If you do decide to go buy another plastic reel, see if you can get an older AP reel rather than a Patterson type. The old APs had much bigger film pick ups than the Pattersons and makes life easier for beginners. 90% of the people I've taught basic darkroom theory to have had trouble with film loading rather than chemisty, water, drying problems etc, etc.
Also practice loading the film without looking at it. Sit down and 'watch' TV, and practice. Learn to do it by feel and sound... yes sound. You'll know that your reel isn't dry when it makes a certain squeak and can avoid causing the film to buckle.
It's almost similar to stereotypical view of a US Marine stripping and re-assembling his combat rifle blind-folded. He's in the dark, so are you.
The KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) approach to starting out in the joys and frustrations of Black and White photography is best. When I started out almost two decades ago (gosh I feel old) all I had was devloper and fix, I didn't have stop, let alone wetting agent. Roll after roll of FP4+ came out fine.
In my time I've never had any problem with over fixing film, some pedantic FB papers yes, but never film. Hypo Clearing agent is best if you live some where where water supply is limited, I still find three full tank flushes and a 20 minute wash is best. And of course your wetting agent at the end.
Just take a deep breath and enjoy.
But not anywhere near powdered fix or Kodak bleach ;) And I'll second the ENJOY.
Stu :)
P.S. Like your taste in notebook computing ;)
MelanieC
03-10-2006, 16:49
I haven't had any luck with the reels. I can't get them to come apart any other way than the way they come apart. They're supposed to be adjustable (and they have to be, because I have 120 film to develop as well). I wish I hadn't already left good feedback for the eBay seller, even though that seems petty since the whole bit plus shipping was still under $10.
If I buy steel reels can I use them with the plastic tank? I hope there's nothing wrong with the tank. I tested it with water last night and have to hold the top on to keep it from leaking when I invert it. I'd buy a new tank but I'm so cash-strapped at the moment that I've imposed a moratorium (which also means I am no longer looking for a 90mm lens -- I am not sure what made me think I could afford one now, but sitting down and going through one's finances has a way of bringing one back to reality!).
I'll keep you guys posted. I'd really like to have a couple of rolls developed this weekend.
bmattock
03-10-2006, 17:17
Folks, if I may interject. The easiest to load reels there is - is no reels at all. Kodak made a proprietary system called Kodacraft in the 1950/60's. You can still get the tanks on eBoy for a couple bucks, and the reels are not reels. You can get NEW replacements (they are called aprons) at Freestyle:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=6050
Notice that they are 99 cents. They roll up onto themselves, looking like lasagna. The way they work is you unroll them in the dark - they want to roll up again like a spring. You place one end of the film in the end and let the thing roll up - like two-ply toilet paper. The waves in the lasagna keeps the film from touching anything. That's it. You can buy a one-roll tank at Freestyle also, but if you buy a 'real' Kodak Kodacraft tank, you can put two rolls in at a time.
Easiest thing going - period. I can't imagine how you could have a problem with these. Easy cleanup too.
One and only one drawback that I can see - the tanks (the old Kodacraft ones) were not designed to be inverted - you agitate without inverting or you wear it. That's it for downside.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
bmattock
03-10-2006, 17:20
I haven't had any luck with the reels. I can't get them to come apart any other way than the way they come apart. They're supposed to be adjustable (and they have to be, because I have 120 film to develop as well). I wish I hadn't already left good feedback for the eBay seller, even though that seems petty since the whole bit plus shipping was still under $10.
If I buy steel reels can I use them with the plastic tank? I hope there's nothing wrong with the tank. I tested it with water last night and have to hold the top on to keep it from leaking when I invert it. I'd buy a new tank but I'm so cash-strapped at the moment that I've imposed a moratorium (which also means I am no longer looking for a 90mm lens -- I am not sure what made me think I could afford one now, but sitting down and going through one's finances has a way of bringing one back to reality!).
I'll keep you guys posted. I'd really like to have a couple of rolls developed this weekend.
Steel and plastic tanks are different diameters on purpose - manufacturers don't like to play nice with each other. If you go with SS, there is only one brand to consider - Nikor. Not Nikkor, that's a Nikon lens designation. Nikor was a US maker - gone now I think. But they made awesome SS tanks and reels that worked. Beware only that they were made to be matched individually. YOu can't mix-n-match different lids on different tanks, even the same model. They are liquid-tight only when they are left as they were the day they were made.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Uh, yeah, I meant ~250 for one reel; I'm used to thinking of two reels at a time. Duh, my bad.
Yes, Nikor are great. I think Hewes (sp?) from the UK are now the highly rated, high quality reel, but I've not used them.
Hello:
The Jobo tanks and reels are versatile-roll, inversion or twist agitation and never(?) leak. If you do more than one roll in sucession a second set of reels helps as plastic reels must be dry to work well.
The Hewes reels are of highest quality and very expensive but worth it if you cannot find good used kinderman or nikor reels. Durst made a 35mm/120 plastic tank, green pour top plastic lid, which took stainless steel reels and had the volume of a kinderman tank. This is the one I most commonly use. To me the best of all possible worlds : Inversion mixing, hewes reels and leakproof with thermal stability-and cheap. YMMV.
Yours
Frank
Frank: Are the Kinderman tanks still available? What sizes are/were available? I'm thinking they might have better thermal stability than stainless steel.
Hello:
The Durst tank was available from Henrys for ~$7.00cdn. They may still have them. They were 2x35, 1x120 only. tbomk. Kinderman tanks were stainless steel with soft plastic lid and heavy stainless reels.
Jobo has Hewes reels for its 1500 series tanks which come in muliple reel sizes from 1x35 up. They take their plastic core. Larger volumes are used than the Durst for inversion processing but less in roller configuration. The tanks can serve as daylight paper processors as well-the maximum value per dollar!
yours
Frank
Thanks, Frank, I'll look at Henry's for the Durst tanks, even though I said Kinderman. ;-)
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