Which Fixed Lens Camera has a Great Lens? [Archive]

Brian Sweeney

03-07-2006, 09:36

Raid, this will touch off a serious round of GAS for all of those who followed you into the great March Buy-Out.

I'll wait until next month to put up the picture of my Mint Konica S2 with the Sharpest lens of any Fixed-Lens RF. You can get these for ~$30.

But it is March.

bmattock

03-07-2006, 09:41

Those which I have some experience with:

* Canon Canonet G-III QL-17
* Minolta Hi-Matic 7S (and 9)
* Yashica GSN/GT/G
* Yashica Lynx 14 (but it will flare heavily)
* Olympus SP/RD/RC/35-S II/XA
* Agfa Karat IV/36 (Solagon & Xenon & Xenar lenses)
* Fujica ML/Compact Deluxe
* Ricoh Five-One-Nine
* Petri Racer

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

raid

03-07-2006, 09:43

Are we that weak?! By the way, I got one of these Konica II cameras with a Hexanon 50/2.8 lens. It's a very nice camera.

Wimpler

03-07-2006, 09:46

from personal experience:

Minolta high matic 7 and 7s
Zeiss ikon Contessa 35

Kim Coxon

03-07-2006, 09:52

IMHO The Konica S2 beats the Olys and Canons. No experience of Minolta.

Kim

squeaky_clean

03-07-2006, 09:54

I've used the Yashica GSN and the Canon Canonet G-III. Both have great lenses.

jonasv

03-07-2006, 09:57

I've had Canonets, Yashicas and Minoltas. The Minolta 7s lens was better than the Yashica (45/1.7 version) and Canon GIII lenses, in my opinion. Heard nothing but good things about the Konica's, but can't compare them myself.

raid

03-07-2006, 09:57

Is there a difference between the Konica S2 and the Konica II ?

bmattock

03-07-2006, 09:58

IMHO The Konica S2 beats the Olys and Canons. No experience of Minolta.

Kim

If I had to rank them on sharpness/contrast, IMHO, the Minolta would win, just barely, over the Konica. And for whatever reason, it has been my experience that the Minoltas are often found in working/immaculate condition - the Konica's almost always seem to arrive broken/dirty. Just my experience, YMMV.

I would also put the Ricoh Five-One-Nine over the Konica, but again, a real squeaker. The Ricoh is a real unsung hero. Oddly-made but easy to use, the trigger-wind and the double-focusing tabs make using it a breeze. Loading is less enjoyable, but not as bad as a er, ahem, certain bottom-loader.

If I had to also figure in convenience, the Olympus RD wins in a walk for having nearly that good of a lens and being much smaller.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bmattock

03-07-2006, 10:02

Is there a difference between the Konica S2 and the Konica II ?

Yes indeed. The Auto S2 is more like the Minolta Hi-Matics in build. The III's are a bit more odd, with lever cocking (I do not know know the II, but would suspect it is an earlier III?). Here's a write up:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/koni3.html

Here's the Auto S2:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattdenton/photo/cameras/konica_autos2.html

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

telenous

03-07-2006, 10:04

I hadn't seen this thread, just started another one praising the Konica S2. I was amazed with the photos, superb Hexanon lens. I like it better than the Canonet QL19 but have not tried the Minolta to compare. I will post a colour photo I took the other day later.

dmr

03-07-2006, 10:15

I suggest that we collectively put together a list of cameras with photos for those cameras we believe to have excellent lenses. Who wants to start?

I would second the QL17 GIII and also nominate the Mamiya Super Deluxe as both having fast and sharp lenses.

telenous

03-07-2006, 10:16

Here's a link of a colour photo with the Konica. The lens is wide open, I like the result very much.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=29637&limit=recent

PS Does anybody know hot to attach a thumbnail at the end of the post?

bmattock

03-07-2006, 10:19

http:/url/to/photo

bmattock

03-07-2006, 10:20

I would second the QL17 GIII and also nominate the Mamiya Super Deluxe as both having fast and sharp lenses.

I had forgotten about my Super Deluxe, you're right. But I only have the f1.5 lens, there are a couple others on the same body, all called 'Super Deluxe'.

I would also nominate the Super Deluxe as 'most like a brick'.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

tarasi

03-07-2006, 10:31

Konica Hexar AF has a superb lens.

tarasi

dnk512

03-07-2006, 10:37

My Konica S3 is at least as sharp as my nikkor gear and has neutral/good out of focus areas. I heard/read good things about the konica III and I bought me one. It is in the mail. The konica S2 is about as sharp, but in the expense of the out of focus areas. The S3 is about half the weightsize of the S2 and the III, but it needs battery (mercury kind) for any aperture other than wide open, and, has no speeds below 1/8".

pesphoto

03-07-2006, 10:37

My vote is with the Yashica Electro GSN. Here's two from pics from mine. I haven't had a chance to use a Hexar though.

amateriat

03-07-2006, 10:38

Well, the problem here is, where does one start? There are many fixed-lens compacts that rate at least a "pretty good" ranking in terms of lens quality. Separating those from "fantastic" might take some doing, and we won't all agree on what makes that shortlist.

My experience with past cameras: Yashica 5000E Lynx (not bad); Yashica Electro 35 GT (better); Canonet QL17 GIII (great, but y'all know this already); Konica S2 (ditto); Olympus XA (darn good); Konica Hexar autofocus (well...what else is there to say? Magic!)

Present – and only – fixed-lens 35 is a Konica Auto S3, which I've wanted for a long time. All I'll say is that it was more than worth the wait.

- Barrett

Kyle

03-07-2006, 10:41

A bit OT, which fixed lens RF has the widest lens?

sbug

03-07-2006, 10:47

I have two fixed lens RF's, Yashica GS and Canonet QL17 G-III. While I greatly prefer the size and build of the Canonet, the Yashica lens is undeniably sharper to my eyes.

zuikologist

03-07-2006, 10:48

I love my Vivitar 35ES - sharp, small, black, cool.

amateriat

03-07-2006, 10:51

AlexC

03-07-2006, 10:51

The 38/2.8 Sonnar T* on the Contax T should qualify as a great lens.

bob cole

03-07-2006, 10:52

I suggest that we collectively put together a list of cameras with photos for those cameras we believe to have excellent lenses. Who wants to start?

o.k., I'll start...one of my favorites is the Yashica T-4...I have two...they each have the 35mm/3.5 Zeiss Tessar lens and take great pictures...They also fit in a breast pocket or the glove compartment, so I generally take one along on trips, just in case...regards...bob

Kyle

03-07-2006, 10:54

If you're talking fixed-lens RFs, I doubt you'll see anything much beyond 35mm in focal length, give or take a few mm. Back in the day – even now, to an extent – it cost a good deal to go from a reasonably fast 38-45mm optic to, say, 28mm (even a somewhat slower one), and most of these cameras, even the really good ones, were built with a given price point in mind, so something had to give. A decent compromise, IMO.

- Barrett

35mm is wide enough for me, but it seems most are in the 40-50mm range (or am I just not looking hard enough).

Here's what I'd like: a fixed lens RF with a reasonably sharp ~35mm lens that is fully manual. Does this camera exist? The QL17 GIII is close, but its lens is a bit long for my taste.

raid

03-07-2006, 11:04

I just realized that I was not specific enough in the title for this thread. Are folding cameras allowed or are we talking about non-folding 35mm cameras? If so, then ...

My list of my own cameras with excellent fixed lenses are as follows:

1. Hexar Silver with the amazing 35mm/2 lens. If you don't have one , wait until next moth to get one.

2. Konica II with the sharp Hexanon 50/2.8 lens.

3. Minox GT with the very good 35mm lens

4. Fuji Natura with the very wide and very fast 24mm/1.9 lens .... (still being tested, but I have seen posted results)

5. Canon P&S with the 2.8 lens. Very sharp.

6. Leica Mini 3. Excellent lens on a plastic camera body.

7. Olympus Stylus with its excellent exposure programs and sharp lens.

I'm sure there are more cameras somewhere in the house ....

raid

03-07-2006, 11:08

Do we "allow" P&S cameras as "rangefinder" cameras here? Maybe I should have been more clear about the scope of the thread. Still, I find all replies useful and interesting.

bob cole

03-07-2006, 11:09

FS VERY CHEAP: If anyone is so enamored of them, I have two fixed lens cameras you can have as parts only ... A Konica C-35 and a Mamiya U...Each has most of the parts...Neither works and neither sold on Ebay...Both are yours for $10 :) :) usd {free shipping to US address} via PayPal...regards, bob

ush

03-07-2006, 11:26

wilt

03-07-2006, 11:28

My experiences with the Minox 35 GT and the Minox 35 GT-E are very positive. Great lens in a small camera. I almost never leave home without a camera, and the Minox makes it possible.

Rob

03-07-2006, 11:54

I did some testing a while back with a Canonet GIII, Yashica GSN, Minolta HM 11, Konica s2. For sharpness the Konica, Minolta and GSN were very sharp, the Canonet a notch behind...

Honu-Hugger

03-07-2006, 11:57

I'll submit a plug for the Linhof 220 which I believe has the best lens of any fixed lens RF.

kbg32

03-07-2006, 12:06

If you like half frame, many of the Olympus Pens and the Canon Demis have great lenses.

broadie

03-07-2006, 12:28

35mm is wide enough for me, but it seems most are in the 40-50mm range (or am I just not looking hard enough).

Here's what I'd like: a fixed lens RF with a reasonably sharp ~35mm lens that is fully manual. Does this camera exist? The QL17 GIII is close, but its lens is a bit long for my taste.

Kyle, I'd say your best bet is the Yashica 35cc. 35mm f1.8 or 1.9 fixed-lens. I have the camera, and the lens is pretty sweet, and overall it's a beautiful machine. It's aperture-priority AE, not fully manual, but you can control the exposure by adjusting the ISO setting, which works perfectly well.

bmattock

03-07-2006, 12:32

I'll submit a plug for the Linhof 220 which I believe has the best lens of any fixed lens RF.

Now that was obscure! I had to go look for it, never heard of it before. And interesting it was, too. Only 2,000 of them ever made? Pistol-grip vertical format 120/220? And a rangefinder as well? Cool.

If we're going to MF, then I'd submit the Fujica G670/G690 in the later fixed-lens (EBC coated) variety. I only have the older Fujica G690 with the interchangeable lens, but it's a monster.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Kim Coxon

03-07-2006, 13:08

One that I forgot, but my fathers swears by it is the Leica Minilux.

Trius

03-07-2006, 14:06

For wide, the XA-4 has 28/3.5, zone focus, so not a true RF, and no fully manual exposure mode.

The C-35 and its variants (Vivitar, etc.) have a 38mm f/2.8 lenses, which are quite nice, but exposure on the Konica is program mode only, so not really flexible. But it is way better than it has a "right" to be.

Oh, and the XA 35/2.8, as mentioned, is great, and the aperture preferred exposure mode works well for me. And it has that Zuiko glow...

Earl

bmattock

03-07-2006, 15:56

Circa 1958 - Olympus 35 Wide. A fixed-lens rangefinder, 35mmf3.5, Zuiko lens, and fully manual. Best I could come up with fora manual wide.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Wayne R. Scott

03-07-2006, 16:24

I know it is not a true rangefinder but my vote for sharpest fixed focal length goes to the Rollei 35S with the 40mm Sonnar f2.8.

Wayne

FPjohn

03-07-2006, 16:51

Hello:

The 50mm Xenon f2.8 is very good on a Retina IIc and they are almost always "pristine". The Xenar f2.8 50mm on a Retina Ib is also a fine lens. The cameras are gem like.

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FYAj&tag=

yours
Frank

ZeissFan

03-07-2006, 17:14

Folding Contessa

Foca Sport II

Any Rolleiflex or Rolleicord

Any folding Retina

Any prewar or postwar Ikonta or Super Ikonta with a Tessar

Medalist I and II

Super Nettel (Triotar or Tessar)

Any Voigtlander Vito with the Skopar or Color-Sokpar or Ultron (Vito III)

Contaflex I with Tessar

Any Rollei 35 with a Tessar or Sonnar

... plus many other cameras, I'm sure

Ronald M

03-07-2006, 17:46

Why a fixed lens? Put one lens on your Leica and leave the rest at home.

If you need more dissapline, a Rollie 35 with any 40mm is great and smaller.

Kyle

03-07-2006, 17:47

Why a fixed lens? Put one lens on your Leica and leave the rest at home.

If you need more dissapline, a Rollie 35 with any 40mm is great and smaller.

Why not fixed lens? They're cheap, compact, usually well built cameras. There are some places I'd rather take a Canonet than my M2.

Oh yeah, I'm looking for the "right" fixed lens because I'm planning on going to Coachella Music and Arts Festival in Indio, Ca in May to shoot pictures of the people. They don't allow the use of any sort of "professional" camera inside the festival grounds. Just what is their definition of a "professional" camera, you ask? Any camera with removable lenses. That means no Leica for me...

TimBonzi

03-07-2006, 18:24

Depending on the look of the photograph you want, that could change your definition of a great lens. I think my Holga 120N takes great photos!

DougK

03-07-2006, 18:52

I think the best lens I have on a fixed-lens camera is the 38mm Hexanon on my Konica C35 Auto. It's simply an amazingly good lens for black-and-white film. I can't tell you how it does with color because I've never shot any in the camera, which is a first for me because I'm a die-hard slide shooter.

Hmmm, I sense a project for this weekend coming on....

Trius

03-08-2006, 03:17

Doug: It's very good with color, trust me. For ease of testing, you might break down and shoot some Reala in it, but you feel safe with chrome, I assure you. You might want to bracket a bit, under-exposing by say 1/3 stop to see how the slight underexposure affects things.

Earl

Kat

03-08-2006, 07:11

How about the sharpest lenses among the subcompact clones (e.g. vivitar es, minolta 7sII, konica s3 and any other similar cameras)? Or are they all the same?

kvanderlaag

03-08-2006, 07:37

I have experience with three fixed-lens cameras:

Fujica 35-SE
Agfa Karat IV
Kodak Retina IIc

The Fujica has a nice, fast 45mm lens that's nice and sharp stopped down a bit, and quite pleasantly sharp in the center even wide open. A little softer around the edges, but sometimes that's what you're going for. It's a wonderfully contrasty lens, and it's nice to take advantage of this.

The Karat IV is a bit messed up, as it sat idle in our basement for almost 18 years, but I've restored it to more or less functional shape, with the RF calibrated pretty close to dead on. I'd have to check it against another camera to tell you just how far off it is, but the two rolls I've successfully shot with it were tack-sharp when I had it stopped down -- focusing was too inaccurate to gauge sharpness wide open.

The Retina...well, not a lot needs to be said for it. It's pretty well-represented here, and with a folding cover for the lens, most of them are in excellent condition. The Xenon on the IIc is almost bitingly sharp -- I do prefer, to an extent, the Solinar on the Karat, but if you want sharpness, the 50mm Xenon on the IIc is excellent.

Jacob

03-08-2006, 08:25

Bronica VZ and VX!
Well, I don't know anything about them other than they are 35mm rangefinders from the eighties, one with a 50mm lens. I just assume they are sharp. If anyone has a picture (maybe from the Bronica history book), please share!
Regarding my own experince, I am allways surprised how sharp the pictures from my Minolta AF-C come out. Just got a little Voigtländer VF 101 with a stuck rangefinder and a hopefully sharp 40mm Skopar. Will get back when, or if, it works.
Jacob

ClaremontPhoto

03-08-2006, 08:28

Leica Minilux

zuikologist

03-08-2006, 08:38

A bit OT, which fixed lens RF has the widest lens?

Yashica 35CC - a nice 35/1.8 lens I think. If an Oly XA4 counts as a rangefinder, then that has a 28mm lens.

Brian Sweeney

03-08-2006, 12:23

Konica S2, Wide-Open.

Pretty impressive for a $25 camera.

bmattock

03-08-2006, 12:31

Konica S2, Wide-Open.

Pretty impressive for a $25 camera.

Nice pictures, Brian. I'm sitting at home working on a pair of Sears 35|RF rangefinders, they were essentially black versions of the Ricoh 500G. These seem ok, but the meters don't work and of course, the foam is all gunky. On most of your compact 35's, if the meter doesn't work, the camera is toast - but on the Ricoh/Sears, there is also manual override for both aperture and shutter speed. Might put a roll through one of them today, we'll see.

Why am I at home today? Water heater went out. Sigh.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Brian Sweeney

03-08-2006, 12:53

Thankyou, Bill.

That's a cold slap in the face! We have a well. When the water heater went out, it was a close call. COLD shower beats no shower.

amateriat

03-08-2006, 13:45

i don't really know if they fit in your categories, but ricoh's GR (1,1s,1v,10 not to mention this gr21) have really nice and wide lens.
http://www.ricoh.co.uk/35mmCameras/images/gr21.jpg
btw, if someone got a cheap GRxx or maybe a R1 to sell, do say so =)
I'll second the Ricoh GR series (I have a GR1, which I really need to finally send out to have fixed), but I didn't include it on my shortlist here since it's not a RF. Great liitle (truly little) camera.

- Barrett

ChrisPlatt

03-08-2006, 13:49

Fuji(ca) GS645 folder

Uncle Bill

03-08-2006, 14:14

I am a fan of my Canonet QL17 GIII, I have taken some really amazing photos with it in the last year.

Bill

StuartR

03-08-2006, 14:41

Well, to open up pandora's box, you must include medium and large format of course.

MF: Plaubel Makina with its superb 80/2.8, The "Stomp Tokyo" Fuji's -- GW690's and GSW690's, and of course all the Rollei TLR's are fixed lens, though not rangefinders. The Soviet Iskra has a very nice lens.

LF: Not so much fixed lens, but most LF users only use one lens anyway. The Linhof field cameras have rangefinders, as do the Alpa and Cambo super wide cameras. Their 38mm biogon and the Schneider APO-Helvetar are some serious lenses...

srtiwari

03-08-2006, 16:17

Love my Rollei 35 T with the Tessar 3.5/40. The meter does not work, but who cares when it takes these kind of sharp pics ?
Subhash

raid

03-08-2006, 17:24

So what is the final summary of "great" camera with excellent fixed lenses? Maybe we should put together a list of some sort with advantages and disadvantages of these cameras (with market value).

kmack

03-08-2006, 17:42

Like a lot of others, bang for the buck goes to the Konica S2.
Brian posted some shots with an S2 wide open, well here is one where
it is stopped down to 5.6 or so.

BillBingham2

03-08-2006, 17:43

My 2cents.

Konica III, sleeper camera with a razor for the lens. Learned how to shot with one years back.

Ricoh R1 has a great lens, mine it the floor when it jumped off the TV, I need to get it fixed. I have heard that all of the Ricoh Rs are great (35, 28, 21) and they have come out with a digital one that has me somewhat interested (but funds for fun are low). I'm not sold on auto everything, but it was a fun camera.

The Leica Minilux (not the zoom) is spoken of very highly on many leica boards that I have have read over the years.

You might try something like a Bessa L with a 25/4 on it. It looks so retro that (no RF, only a viewfinder) but it has a built in meter. Does not look auto everything in your face. Combine that with either an XA or perhaps better yet a Konica S3 (I think it has a fast 40mm on her) and you have a great combination. Small and a nice option of two focal lengths.

B2 (;->

dnk512

03-08-2006, 17:44

Raid, usualy s/he who asked the original question provides the group with a nice summary :D

Trius

03-08-2006, 17:45

Geeze, Kevin, you should give a warning; I just blew out an eyeball.

raid

03-08-2006, 17:48

raid

03-08-2006, 17:50

Raid, usualy s/he who asked the original question provides the group with a nice summary :D

Dimitri: Your statement is true for most cases. I did not expect that many responses and I don't think that each response has comparable information, but overall there is eventually room for putting something together. I just don't see a useful summary at this stage. Maybe someone could provide a suggestion what could be done.

Charlie

03-08-2006, 17:58

Contax T3 has a wonderful lens. Unfortunately the camera is broken due to a poor design in the film take-up spool. Still debating whether it's worth the jack to take to fix it, seeing as I have two other 35mm lenses.

Wayne R. Scott

03-08-2006, 18:08

I'll sum it up in my opinion. Take any lens and shoot it at an aperature range of f5.6 to f11 and you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between any of the above mentioned cameras. Just pick one, load some film in it, start shooting, and be happy!

Wayne

ErnestoJL

03-08-2006, 18:11

I was allways shooting with 35 mm cameras, and in fact the biggest perceivable dfferences I found were related to lens speed.
My first experience with fixed lens RFs dates back to 1966 with the Voigtländer Vitomatic IIB fiited with a Color Skopar 2.8/50. This lens was slow but sharp and contrasty, and the camera a small and heavy solid brass brick.

Of the few cameras I had later, my choice of lens performance is the Yashica E35 GS(T)N, which IMO is a bit better than the one in the Canonet QL17.
I´m waiting for the seals to dry to test the Mamiya SD 1.5 so I can compare with the other two.

Ernesto

StuartR

03-08-2006, 18:54

I don't mean to rain on the parade, but I don't really understand the utility of a summary. There are way too many fixed lens cameras of a million different types to really categorize them. If you narrow the list to compact 35mm cameras or medium format folders or TLR's or true rangefinders you might narrow the list, but even then, how helpful is a simple list of "good" lenses? Anyway, I just think this sort of thing is better served by individual questions on the forum, or by websites like cameraquest which can give individual camera profiles and general recommendations.