Need info on a Contax IIIa

[ch1]

I found what I'm told is a Contax IIIa at an antiques store. Nameplate says it was made in Stugartt, Germany. Leatherette is still okay although you can feel the backplate rivets - but they haven't "popped through".

The RF seems realtively bright and it has a ZI Sonnar 50mm (5.0cm?), 1.5 lens attached.

I removed the lens and it does appear to have some oil on the blades but the glass is clean. I do not detect any indents when I move through the aperture settings (i.e. it moves very smoothly rather than distinct "clicks") is this normal? The lens may be coated, I couldn't tell for sure.

I opened it up and pressure plate seems clean - I had a "sales guy" hovering over me and no countertop to rest things on so I did "fiddle" with it much. I did note that the take-up spool was not "attached" to the winder so it came off in my hand - is this "normal"?

Obviously, I know next to nothing about Contaxes so any info is appreciated.

Oh, the asking price, with leather case (broken strap) is $150. Does that sound "reasonable" figuring it will at least need a full CLA.?

[Brian Sweeney]

Sounds like the real thing. The COntax IIIa is easy to tell from the Kiev's as the RF window is closer in, and is in general, smaller. $150 is a steal. The lens goes for more.

The lens "should be" a Zeiss Opton Sonnar. A Jena lens may be on it, if so is still more than worth $150.

Check the meter. If the needle does not responde, give it a little "massage". sometimes wiggling it a little cleans the contacts. It did on my IIIa.

My IIIa next to a Nikon S. The IIIa has a new Zeiss-Opton 5cm/1.5, thanks to a trade with Oscar.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1760

[Honu-Hugger]

George,
That's a steal; the lens alone is worth more than $150. The smooth aperture operation is normal, they do not use an indent system.

[ZeissFan]

The price is a steal. You should get it.

The lens is either Carl Zeiss Jena, Carl Zeiss or Zeiss-Opton Sonnar (rather than Zeiss Ikon). Zeiss Ikon made only cameras -- not lenses. Carl Zeiss made lenses but not cameras.

If the lens is marked in millimeters (50mm), then it's most likely postwar and coated. If it's marked in centimeters (5 cm), then it's likely prewar and uncoated.

And like the others have said, no click stops for apertures.

The film spools aren't permanently set in the body, although some later models had pressure springs to hold the film spool in place. But the film spool is always removable, and when changing film you always have to be careful not to let the film spool fall out of the camera and then bounce down a drain or something like that.

Sounds like typical corrosion buildup under the leather.

[darkkavenger]

Oh my god you ARE lucky!!!!!!! run run while it's still there!

[Nikon Bob]

Exactly as the others have said. The rivets are not popping, it is just Zeiss bumps from corrosion on the rivet heads I believe. This is quite normal. You will find more answers here http://www.zeisscamera.com/ContaxIIa/Prices.html .

Nikon Bob

[Brian Sweeney]

Okay. By this time I was expecting to see your new Contax IIIa on the camera and coffee thread.

Where is it????

[ch1]

Thanks all,

I figured it was a deal (steal?) but thought I consult the experts here first! ;)

I do understand (kinda) the difference b/w Zeiss (lenses) and Contax cameras - forgive my "loose" nomenclature. If it works out, I guess I'll have to get "saavy". I'm almost certain the lens is post-war coated - but the place wasn't well lit. Which was actually a plus because I still saw a nice bright RF patch when I pointed the camera at a florescent light fixture on the ceiling! Oh, and I did see "deflection" on the meter.

Now I have to go back and act "nonchalant" even while I'm drooling over it!

[ch1]

Okay. By this time I was expecting to see your new Contax IIIa on the camera and coffee thread.

Where is it????

Brian,

Just saw it at 4PM this afternoon.

The place re-opens at 10AM tomorrow (I asked) - guess where I'll be at that time! :D

[back alley]

buy it!

you can sell it after the cla if you decide you don't like it.

contax has a very different feel than leica/canon etc.

they are beautiful machines though.
joe

[Brian Sweeney]

Saw it at 4pm. Posted RFI at 5:03pm. Got confirmation to buy at 5:06pm.

It will still be there. You did not give the address out... And the odds of an RFF'r running across that antique shop are pretty low. After all, Kiu never found the shop that I picked up the two Nikon M's in...

[ch1]

Saw it at 4pm. Posted RFI at 5:03pm. Got confirmation to buy at 5:06pm.

It will still be there. You did not give the address out... And the odds of an RFF'r running across that antique shop are pretty low. After all, Kiu never found the shop that I picked up the two Nikon M's in...

Brian,

While not exactly "paranoid" there was a REASON why I didn't mention where I saw it! :D

Oh, I did stop by a few places and shot a couple of pics on my way home before I posted the original query. But just a few!

[darkkavenger]

I think I'd be sweating and shivering, unable to sleep and high on caffeine right now... gosh... the pleasure of rubbing the sweet little contax against my cheek!

oh sorry i get emotional!!!

[furcafe]

Small correction/clarification. In the U.S. after WWII, Contax RFs were often sold w/Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm Sonnars (usually the f/2 version) from what was then E. Germany. I believe the reason for this was that the E. German lenses were easier to obtain, cheaper, enabled camera stores to get around Zeiss Ikon's price maintenance practices (such practices were common among camera manufacturers back then but were later ruled illegal under antitrust law) & sell camera-lens combos for less than the normal minimum price (same reason why some Peerless sold Leicas w/Cooke Amotal 2"/2 Anastigmat lenses originally from Bell & Howell Fotons rather than w/Leitz lenses), & U.S. retailers were less beholden to the W. German Zeiss Foundation's trademark policies in its dispute w/E. German Carl Zeiss Jena company (the W. Germans would eventually triumph in court). These lenses are always coated (marked w/the red "T") & perform just as well as the W. German lenses made in Oberkochen (marked "Zeiss-Opton" or "Carl Zeiss"), but are less mechanically well-made (dull aluminum alloy barrels rather than shiny chromed brass).


If the lens is marked in millimeters (50mm), then it's most likely postwar and coated. If it's marked in centimeters (5 cm), then it's likely prewar and uncoated.

[ch1]

Just to follow-up I bought the Contax IIIa this morning. Just shot a few (mainly OOF) digipics.

It's definitely the "real thing". Interestingly, there are a couple of old magazine ads of it on eBay - they were helpful in identifying it as the real McCoy. There is also a e-tailer on eBay trying to flog a "pristine" one for $850! Doubt he'll get it - but makes me feel good that mine only cost $150!

[Honu-Hugger]

Congratulations George, that's a great deal. I hope you get much enjoyment from it -- good score!!!

[FrankS]

Congrats, George! The lens marked Zeiss- Opton, means an early postwar West German lens.

[Fedzilla_Bob]

$150 - now look at this-
http://cgi.ebay.com/Contax-IIIa-w-50mm-Zeiss-Opton-Beautiful-camera-MINT_W0QQitemZ7593909334QQcategoryZ30028QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[darkkavenger]

Bargain!!! :D I'm happy for you! :)

[Brian Sweeney]

The lens alone is worth more than what you paid.

[varjag]

Congrats George. Really sweet deal!

[ch1]

Thanks all. BTW - it's really clean inside. I'm planning to shoot a roll after I read the downloaded manual I got from butkus.com.

One question regarding the Sonnar 50mm/1.5 lens - can you tell me what the diameter is (my guess is 39mm)? I'm member of the "filter school" (yes, I know others here prefer to "swim naked") and want to order a UV filter for it.

Thanks.

[varjag]

40.5 mm might work.

[Honu-Hugger]

George,
It is 40.5mm.

Enjoy,

[Mike Kovacs]

Before you waste your film, take the lens and back off. Point the camera at a white CRT display set to 60Hz refresh (or standard TV), turn it vertically and fire all the fast speeds 1/50 - 1/1250. You should see a quick flash of bars that becomes progressively narrower as you increase speed.

There are three problems one consistently comes across with the postwar Contax shutter:

1. Fast speeds all fire at the same speed (detected by the size of the TV "bars") - there is a lever that can be bent out of shape that is a real PITA to get right

2. Shutter has fade - if the flash of bars is significantly thicker on one side compared to the other, yours has fade

3. Shutter fails to open at all - usually at 1/500 and/or 1/1250.

Also, check the rangefinder moving image carefully. Often the spring it uses to return gets weak and requires adjustment. In this case the image will "skip" or simply not return to infinity.

$150 is an OK deal but the camera looks a little rough in the (hard to see) photos. It looks like the earlier black dial type (no PC socket and black speed numbers) but its hard to see.

[Mike Kovacs]

Also, check the vertical alignment. It is often out, and there is no simple way to adjust it. Usually the black pitch that cements the lens to the holder breaks loose, but on mine it was very tight, and still needed a major PITA shimming job to get it back.

[ch1]

Also, check the vertical alignment. It is often out, and there is no simple way to adjust it. Usually the black pitch that cements the lens to the holder breaks loose, but on mine it was very tight, and still needed a major PITA shimming job to get it back.

Mike,

Thanks for the info. I'll do some checking tonight. Can you recommend someone who would be good to do a CLA on it?

[Honu-Hugger]

Henry Scherer is the best but has a waiting list that some find difficult to deal with. I have only been extremely pleased with his work and will use no one else for my Contaxes or lenses. His address is Zeisscamera.com or something like that (Google him if that doesn't work).

[Mike Kovacs]

Sorry, I service my own cameras and lenses. The IIA/IIIA are a fair bit easier to work on than the prewar models, but are more likely to have issues with the shutter requiring service in the first place.

My IIA BD stripped to the bare chassis.... and back!

[Brian Sweeney]

That is a beautiful Contax IIa, and a very informative site.

[ch1]

Well first of all, thanks for the CLA info. I want to keep it "close to home" so will go with a US-based service person.

I'm not set up to do a "60Hz screen test" but I did an eyeball one with the lens and back removed and the shutter does "perform" at both 500 and 1250 (it's interesting that you can "see" the difference b/w the two). Of course this doesn't mean the timing is correct or that there is no "blade lag" but at least it "works" at those speeds!

I do think I'll burn a roll in it before sending it off (for now, at least, film is still cheap) - but if it is in as good a condition as I suspect - then a CLA will be an extra nice improvement.

[RJBender]

Well first of all, thanks for the CLA info. I want to keep it "close to home" so will go with a US-based service person.

I'm not set up to do a "60Hz screen test" but I did an eyeball one with the lens and back removed and the shutter does "perform" at both 500 and 1250 (it's interesting that you can "see" the difference b/w the two). Of course this doesn't mean the timing is correct or that there is no "blade lag" but at least it "works" at those speeds!

I do think I'll burn a roll in it before sending it off (for now, at least, film is still cheap) - but if it is in as good a condition as I suspect - then a CLA will be an extra nice improvement.


Congratulations, George. It's amazing that there are no camera repair shops in the big apple that can CLA your Contax.

R.J.

[Mike Kovacs]

Honestly, there has to be shop in NYC that is capable. The IIIA BD is not a particularly difficult camera to repair, especially with some help from Rick Oleson's tech notes.

Good to see Nicolas here - he really approaches camera repair with a cautiousl and perfectionist eye. His cameras that I have seen are beautiful.

[dexdog]

That is a beautiful Contax IIa, and a very informative site.

I second this statement. Great site. While I am all thumbs with delicate repairs, I have successfully used the info on this site to clean and lubricate some parts of the Contax cameras, and to remove the zeiss bumps. Thanks, Nicholas!