Elmar/Hektor Black Barrel Database [Archive]

doubs43

02-22-2006, 12:22

Joe, if you can make this a "sticky" under the Leica Screw Mount Forum, I'd appreciate it.

I'd like to put together a database of 9cm/90mm Elmar and 13.5cm/135mm Hektor screw-mount lenses in BLACK BARREL only. That means pre-war to the late 1940's. I'm not certain when production changed to chrome barrels but it was late 1940's I'm pretty certain.

Any data I collect will be available to all members who are interested.

The data I'd like to have is:

Focal Length - 9cm or 90mm & 13.5cm or 135mm as marked

Serial number - complete if possible

Focusing scale - feet or meters

Aperture Range - i.e., f/4 - f/36

Elmar or Hektor

Coated or uncoated

Pictures of the lens would be nice; side view and view showing the serial number, model etc.

The names of the owners are not necessary.

Please PM the information or email me at: doubs43@cox.net.

Thanks to everyone.

Walker

doubs43

02-22-2006, 21:44

Bump....... I've had my first reply..... a 1947 Hektor.

Joe, can you make my request for data a sticky? PLEEEEEEEEZE!!??

Walker

laptoprob

02-22-2006, 22:52

I have one coming up, Walker. The one William got. I will try it in a Hektor screw moount to get rangefinder coupling.
More when I have it.

cheers, Rob.

doubs43

02-22-2006, 23:03

I have one coming up, Walker. The one William got. I will try it in a Hektor screw moount to get rangefinder coupling.
More when I have it. cheers, Rob.

Thanks, Rob. I have input from two RFF members now. I personally have two Hektors and an Elmar in 13.5cm length and one 9cm Elmar.

I should have also asked for black barrel Elmar 13.5cm lenses. Think I'll go back and do that.

I'm also keeping an eye on ebay offerings as many times the data I seek is in the pictures or descriptions.

I appreciate any information anyone can provide and I'll happily share whatever I get.

Walker

John Shriver

03-03-2006, 19:23

doubs43

03-03-2006, 19:44

Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 596514. Meter, has some remains of coating. (A dog.)
Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 556563. Meter, uncoated.
Hektor f=13,5cm No 600125. Meter, coated.

All to f:36 minimum aperture, continental scale.

John, thank you very much for the data. Elmar #556563 is a 1940 lens. #596514 is an early 1945 lens while the Hektor is a late 1945 lens.

While my data is much too sketchy at the moment to tell anything for certain, what I've been able to find on ebay plus what RFF members have sent me, it appears that Leitz was coating their lenses by at least some point in 1944. Whether they were coating all or only military destined lenses is also not known. That's what I hope to eventually determine if it hasn't already been recorded somewhere. I haven't seen that data in print myself but it could be.

Thanks again.

Walker

laptoprob

03-04-2006, 00:50

Walker, I got Williams black Elmar 135 a few days ago. William has given you the info on numbers etc. Do you have all the info you want? It is the uncoupled one.
It is possible to mount the Elmar lens on a later Hektor body, but the Elmar body is shorter, so no real use there. I would like to use the uncoupled Elmar on a coupled body. Maybe I can get an okd-style coupled lens body somewhere.
Do you know how long a black Hektor body is, from flange until the end of the focusing mount (at infinity)?

cheers, Rob.

Ronald M

03-06-2006, 09:17

As soon as I fine mine, I`ll forward info

90 and 135 uncoated-- both black- both RF coupled

laptoprob

03-06-2006, 09:31

I already mailed these to Walker: I have been searching Ebay for info on different types of lensheads with corresponding barrel lengths.
Reason: I would like to be able to use my 1930 Elmar 135mm (not cm!) on a coupled barrel.
I think there are two lengths: 9,24cm for the old type and 10,71cm for the newer type. Measured when set for infinity.
The two types of lensheads are easily distinguishable.

Can anyone confirm this?

thanks, Rob.

march 11: things become clear. The shorter barrel is Elmar, the longer Hektor.

JimG

03-06-2006, 10:16

Walker I sent info. for my black 9cm.

John Shriver

03-06-2006, 18:07

Rob, you would need a focusing mount calibrated for the focal length of your Elmar head. Focusing it to infinity isn't enough, the slope of the cam depends on the focal length.

That's why you want the penciled or engraved number in the focusing mount to match the last three digits of the serial number of the head.

John Shriver

03-06-2006, 18:18

laptoprob

03-11-2006, 10:23

So now I have two very early Elmars 135mm. Or rather an uncoupled numberless 135mm (meters, possibly 1390, scratch no. 41316) and a coupled 13,5cm (feet, possibly 1932 or '33 no. 142101).

The latest just arrived today from a misnamed Ebay auction. It is not a Hektor! So it may well be that all Elmars have the slightly shorter mount.

Since I am not that much of a collector, the appearantly very rare uncoupled version is for sale. Please make me an offer.

cheers, Rob.

Rich Silfver

03-11-2006, 11:45

My Elmar 90/4.
Serial # 372160 (1937)

http://www.pbase.com/rsilfverberg/image/54279560.jpg

Ronald M

03-12-2006, 11:32

Finally found my lenses

90 4.0 Elmar #576855 uncoated A 36 Feet only marking

135 4.5 Elmar #415351 uncoated A36 Meter only marking

Both are black finish both coupled RF

doubs43

03-13-2006, 22:32

According to Puts' book, consumer Hektor 135/4.5 lenses were coated starting at serial 600000. Wartime lenses were coated as early as 1941, but only for sales to the military. (For instance, Summitars for the military were coated starting at 587001.)

John, thanks for the information from Puts. That's the first printed information of it's kind that I'm aware of and it dovetails nicely with what I had suspected about the coating of Leitz lenses. One explaination for the way it was distributed is that lens coating may well have been a military secret. It's also possible that the process wasn't sufficiently developed to allow coating of all lenses.

Walker

doubs43

03-13-2006, 22:34

Rob, Rich and Ronald; thanks for the lens information. I'm entering them into my data base.

Walker

Bill Snell

03-26-2006, 02:24

Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 177712 (1933). Metres. uncoated.
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 414995 (1937). Feet. uncoated

doubs43

03-26-2006, 09:01

Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 177712 (1933). Metres. uncoated.
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 414995 (1937). Feet. uncoated

Bill, thank you. Your 1933 Elmar is the earliest one I've encountered so far.

Walker

laptoprob

03-29-2006, 07:12

Hey Walker, I sold the uncoupled 135 Elmar to a guy who has a same-period non-standard 1(C). He informed me about his camera and 50 Elmar serial no.: 48679. The 135 Elmar is 49316. The first standardized Leica camera is appearantly a serial 55404.
Hektor 135's start at 156.000 in 1933.

Bill Snell

03-30-2006, 02:03

Walker, The 1933 Elmar is in great condition. Thought you might like to see acouple of shots.

doubs43

03-30-2006, 20:10

Walker, The 1933 Elmar is in great condition. Thought you might like to see acouple of shots.

Bill, both of those shots are very nice. I like the colors and they show that the old uncoated lenses, if in good condition, are capable of first class results. I have a 1938 vintage 9cm Elmar on the way and I hope it'll do as well. My father's 1937 Elmar is well-worn but turns in outstanding results.

Thanks for posting thos pictures.

Walker

jkelly

03-31-2006, 03:59

Does anyone have a pic of their 9cm mounted on a Barnack body? I'm thnking of getting one for my IIIa, but it seems that it might be rather unwieldy.

doubs43

03-31-2006, 06:10

Does anyone have a pic of their 9cm mounted on a Barnack body? I'm thnking of getting one for my IIIa, but it seems that it might be rather unwieldy.

Here's a Leica III with the 9cm Elmar & Imarect Finder mounted. The quarter gives size reference. The combination is not in the least difficult to handle. It's actually a very nice combination.

Walker

VictorM.

04-04-2006, 17:44

Forgot about my black Elmar: 9cm 1:4, s/n 596758, coated, meters, distance ring is ivory paint, not chrome, older f-stop numbers, f/36 minimum.

2maneekameras

04-06-2006, 01:07

13.5cm Hektor ƒ4.5-36 meters rfcoupled serial#4410xx uncoated
This lens came with my M3 including a ltm-m adapter which brings up the correct frame in the viewfinder. I also use this lens with my IIIa. attached image shows my home made lenshood.

doubs43

04-06-2006, 19:38

Forgot about my black Elmar: 9cm 1:4, s/n 596758, coated, meters, distance ring is ivory paint, not chrome, older f-stop numbers, f/36 minimum.

Victor, that's an interesting lens. It's a 1945 production and may be very late war-time or very early post-war. It's normally thought that lenses prior to serial number 600,000 were only coated if made for the military. Yours is close enough to perhaps be one of the earliest civilian coated lenses..... or one of the last military lenses. While 600,000 is a nice round number, who knows the exact number at which ALL Leitz lenses were coated? The ivory paint would seem to suggest that proper materials were difficult to come by when that Elmar was made. Thank you for sharing.

Walker

doubs43

04-06-2006, 19:40

13.5cm Hektor ƒ4.5-36 meters rfcoupled serial#4410xx uncoated. This lens came with my M3 including a ltm-m adapter which brings up the correct frame in the viewfinder. I also use this lens with my IIIa. attached image shows my home made lenshood.

Your Hektor was made in 1938 and should be a fine lens. I like mine and I appreciate the information.

Walker

ddutchison

06-29-2006, 00:54

I just recieved a 90/Elmar, so I thought I'd add it to your list. This is the first one I've seen in the flesh - couldn't get over how tiny they are.

Sorry, no pics of it

Elmar f=9cm 1:4
Sn 596570
f4-36
Meters
coated

VictorM.

06-29-2006, 05:41

Wow, that serial number is close to the one I have.

ddutchison

06-30-2006, 13:22

Wow, that serial number is close to the one I have.
Hey, so it is. It's even closer to John Shriver's 90 on the previous page. Mine came out 56 lenses after his.

Latecomer

07-04-2006, 02:22

Elmar 9cm f4, #609188, metres, coated (I think), chrome base and distance ring otherwise black, old aperture stops

jkelly

07-21-2006, 10:37

Just bought an Elmar 9cm/f4 serial #615778 (1946). Has an adapter so I can use it both on my M3 and IIIa. I don't know whether the glass is coated because I have not received it yet, but will post once I receive it. Pictures attached.

memphis

07-21-2006, 13:21

just got my black hektor -- serial # 370684 - sweet!

jkelly

07-25-2006, 13:17

naturepix

08-07-2006, 17:14

I will join in on this, as I have just taken delivery of a 9cm Elmar. Serial Number is 596126, which makes it from 1945, if I am correct. It appears to be coated and distances are in meters. It is gorgeous.

memphis

08-22-2006, 16:15

I've done it -- gotten black barrel hektor and elmar -- will be running a roll thru them this week

Elmar: ser #635382
Hektor 135 : ser # 370684

jkelly

08-23-2006, 08:52

A couple of the first photos taken with my 90/4 Elmar.

wotalegend

11-10-2006, 03:59

I have a 9cm f4 Elmar #459333 (1938?), uncoated, focus scale in feet, f-stop numbers old-type, no photos yet, but otherwise identical in appearance to jkelly's lens in this thread. I bought it on eBay from the US about six months ago.

minimicrite

11-10-2006, 17:22

My Elmar is 9cm, serial # 576775 (1941 model), focusing in meters, aperture range f/4-36 in the "other" scale (4, 4.5, 6.3, 9, 12.8, etc.), uncoated. Came with bakelite case from a pawn shop in CA. Couldn't afford the camera, too. Still has the original owner's name on the case (an M.D., go figure).

tlfan

04-14-2007, 02:39

Mine is a Elmar uncoated
Focal length=9CM
Serial number=321851
Focusing scale=feet
Aperture range=f4-f36

Peter A (NYC)

04-21-2007, 10:24

Hektor
13,5 cm
No. 241189
Focusing scale in Feet
Aperture range 4,5 - 36
Coated
Made in 1935?

I saw it at Photo Village a few years ago. Glass looked very hazy. They said $50, I said Ok. Took it home, un-screwed the front and found a layer of dust on the rear element. The glass is actually in great shape! Just looking into the barrel at the metalwork, they'd have to charge a thousand bucks if they made it like this today. Great for outdoor portraits.

landsknechte

06-16-2007, 18:41

Just scored a black barrel Hektor 13,5 cm on eBay. Serial number #644651 (1947?). Focusing scale in feet. Aperture range fr 4.5 to 32. I can't tell from the auction photos if it is coated or not, but I'll update when I get my paws on it.

(Edit: It's coated, and like LeicaTom's example below, it has flat black paint.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/eiserneskreuz/may07/hektor1.jpg

jobo

06-16-2007, 22:24

Elmar f=9cm No 609285 f/4-36, uncoated, reporting for duty. :cool:

TVphotog

06-19-2007, 13:21

elmar, 13.5 cm 4.5-36f, meters, serial #142594 Fixing iris blades as we speak

landsknechte

06-25-2007, 20:40

Elmar 9cm, f/4-36, meters, uncoated, serial #412304 (1937)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/eiserneskreuz/jun07/xx44.jpg

LeicaTom

06-26-2007, 14:23

I just bought from an estate of a Brigadier General here in Florida
a Hektor f4.5 135mm *flat black paint barrel* (coated) serial no. 608332 (1946) - bought July 1947 in the US Army PX store Vienna, Austria
(I have original sales silp) cost: $40.50 with the original orange lens box and leather case

Here`s a photo of it on my beautiful "Half Race" 1946 IIIC stepper rewind with an equally interesting pre 1947 Leitz VIOOH finder which is also *flat black paint*
(I`ve been told Leitz had a shortage of gloss black paint during 1945 to 47 production runs)

breathstealer

06-28-2007, 08:40

My Elmar 9cm is numbered 615370 (1946), and it's coated. Marked in meters and old f stops.

Curious thing is, the inside of the tube is penciled 5370 (I assume indicating that the head matches), and 90 4 57 PX, as far as I can tell. Also, the ring between the head is made of some sort of plastic, not brass like everyone else's seems to be. I'll get pictures if there's interest.

L39UK

07-05-2007, 12:39

Hi,Regarding the factory coating of Leica screw lenses.

In Marc James Small's book " Non- Leitz Leica Thread- Mount Lenses" which goes into some detail about the starting date of Leitz giving lenses factory coating, the conclusion was that Leitz began some "soft" coating at serial number 581,501 in October 1941 and made this a universal practice on all lenses from serial number 598,201 in 1945.Hard coatings were not available to Leitz at this time due to the patent Smakula technique being held by it's great rival "ZEISS".It is thought that the Smakula coating technique was later used by Leitz on its lenses when the patent expired in 1955.

Mr_Flibble

08-01-2007, 08:26

Arrived freshly from the other side of the pond:

Elmar 9cm, f/4-36, feet, serial #414454 (1937), the lens has got a purple-ish sheen to it, so I guess it's been coated at some point.

Mr_Flibble

09-10-2007, 15:13

Arrived freshly from the other side of the pond:

Hektor 13.5cm, f/4.5-32, meters, serial #617068 (1946), coated

photobizzz

10-05-2007, 02:54

Here is my Black Elmar 9cm f4, coated, in feet, f4-f36, chrome distance ring.

SN: 355188

Ron (Netherlands)

10-09-2007, 13:02

Well, here's my 90mm Elmar on a Z3; nr. 372466. It is also in feet f4 - f36; uncoated
Can someone tell how to CLA this lens?
thanks

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kpmg0072/Cameras/Zorki%203%20-%20V.JPG

Pakmanpdx

10-12-2007, 21:33

I have a Black Barrel Hektor, 13.5 cm, serial 539628, it looks diffeent than all the pictures I've seen. so far. All the writing is on the outside of the barrel, nothing is inset. continental scale, in meters appears coated but I think it was sent back to the factory for coating. 539628 puts it at 1940. It is coupled as well. I also have the Hektor 7.3cm Black Barrel.

Ron (Netherlands)

10-13-2007, 15:27

Pakmanpdx

10-15-2007, 11:09

sorry my mistake, it looks exactly like the one above in laptoprobs post! I will post a picture later....

Kim Coxon

11-09-2007, 02:11

Hi Walker,
Note sure if you are still collecting numbers but I just received an "impulse" purchase through the post.

My Elmar is 9cm, serial # 517457 (1939 model), focusing in meters, aperture range f/4-36 in the "other" scale (4, 4.5, 6.3, 9, 12.8, etc.)

Kim

YouSeWuKong

01-05-2008, 17:52

hi,everybody.i've got a black barrel hektor 135 yesterday!it's on the way now!
it cost me about 100usd.

bean_counter

01-05-2008, 18:42

just stumbled across this thread

elmar 9cm
sn 635069
meters
f4-36 (old style)
coated

YouSeWuKong

01-06-2008, 21:57

My Hektor f=13,5cm 1:4.5 No 576165. Meter, uncoated.

MikeL

01-06-2008, 22:18

Here's some info on a friends right now on ebay:
Focal Length - 9cm
Serial number - 615833
Focusing scale - meters
Aperture Range - f/4 - f/36
Elmar
Coated

YouSeWuKong

01-11-2008, 00:32

Does Anybody Know The Number Hektor 135/4.5 Black Barrel Have Made?thanks

jolefler

01-11-2008, 08:07

"Here's some info on a friends right now on ebay:
Focal Length - 9cm
Serial number - 615833
Focusing scale - meters
Aperture Range - f/4 - f/36
Elmar
Coated"

Looks great! Shot it last night & will run film today at some point. Glad to see it stayed in the RFF family. Thanks again, Mike!

uwe zankl

02-21-2008, 12:24

Hi...

Focal Length - 13.5cm

Serial number - 415951

Focusing scale - feet

Aperture Range - f/4,5 - f/36

Hektor

uncoated

cheers
Uwe

Luddite Frank

02-28-2008, 09:25

Here's my contribution to the database:

90 mm:

" Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Elmar f = 9 cm 1:4 No 411643 " (all around front element)

f: 4 - 4,5 - 6,3 - 9 - 12,5 - 18 - 25 - 36

Brushed-chrome (?) mount and focusing ring: 1 - Inf , mtr

RF-coupled. Uncoated. In black bakelite tube.

135 mm:

" Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Elmar 1:4,5 F=135mm " - no s/n, at least none on exterior.

f : 4,5 - 6,3 - 9 - 12,5 - 18 - 25 - 36

Bright nickel focusing scale: 1,5 - Inf , mtr.

No Rangefinder coupling !

Tripod socket. Lens is all-black (incl. thread-mount) , except for focusing scale.

Next:

" Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Hektor f= 13,5 cm 1:4,5 " s/n:4152XX (on lens mount, and barrel/focusing mount)

f : 4,5 - 6,3 - 9 - 12,5 - 18 - 25 - 36

Satin nickel focusing scale: 1,5 - Inf, mtr ; RF-coupled.

Tripod socket. Lens is all-black, except for camera mount & focusing scale (Nckl)

Lens was coated at some point.

That's it for my black lenses.

I also have one-each, 1950's: Elmar 90, Hektor 135; both satin-chrome & vulcanite.

Luddite Frank

:)

RooX

04-04-2008, 17:43

brining this back from the dead. I just recieved a 13.5cm hektor and a 9cm Elmar.

Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Elmar f = 9 cm 1:4 No 96829 ( i think this is the lowest number i have seen here so far.) Uncoated, and in very very good shape i might add.

Ernst Leitz Wetzlar Hektor f = 13.5 cm 1:4.5 No 608431. Coated, decent shape.

cant wait to try them out.

DrLeoB

05-31-2008, 20:46

Finally dug my Hektor black barrel out ///

S/n - 370574
Meters, f/4.5-36, 13.5 cm, uncoated, coupled ltm

Since originally posting, I have acquired several others:
S/n - 608913, Meters, f/4.5 - 36, 13.5 cm, coated, coupled ltm
S/n - 576194, Meters, f/4.5 - 36, 13.5 cm, uncoated, coupled ltm
S/n - 6971, Feet, f/4.5 - 36, 13.5 cm, uncoated, coupled ltm .... seriously, number is on lens barrel in woods metal!!
S/n - None, Meters, f/4.5 - 36, 13.5 cm, uncoated, NO rangefinder coupling.

L39UK

06-01-2008, 12:03

S/n - 6971, Feet, f/4.5 - 36, 13.5 cm, uncoated, coupled ltm .... seriously, number is on lens barrel in woods metal!!

Hello DrLeoB,
This is a very interesting lens. It must have been matched originally to Leica 1 A Serial No.6971 after the camera had been updated to Leica 1 Interchangeable "Model C" non- standard and had 6971 engraved to show it had been matched by Leitz for use on that camera only.At some later date the lens must have been standardized and rangefinder coupled and I would not be surprised if the original Leica 1A (Serial No. 6971) had been further updated to a standardized Leica Interchangeable "Model C" and later to Leica 11 (Model D) camera when the lens would have been rangefinder coupled.What are your thoughts on the matter?
Regards,
William

DrLeoB

06-03-2008, 07:49

William,
I think you have the right progression. It is a pretty clean optic and I have used it several times and am pleased with it. I do have a black 1a-to-2a conversion camera for it and I use the unnumbered, non-coupled lens with my Std-to-c conversion. The wartime one is with my IIIcK kit. Leaves one to actually use routinely.....
I am still fairly confused as to designations of these early cameras, tho.

JOLILLO

06-23-2008, 08:35

Is possible a 90 elmar collapsible half black half silver with the half silver in M mount ant the black front coated?http://i23.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/f7/14/3597_1.JPG

andrealed

08-08-2008, 16:16

Hektor 135 no. 241907
old stops
meter scale
arrow engraved

LeicaTom

08-29-2008, 20:01

I just received from Adorama an "uncoated" Black barreled 1940 ELANG 9cm Elmar No. 5564xx in meters

It`s near mint about 98% paint with only fine tick marks at one ot two places on the barrel and "minty" glass with just a touch of haze that needs cleaning away with the next CLA.

Tom

David Hughes

10-08-2008, 11:28

Late again:

Elmar f = 9cm
f/4 to f/36
Feet and serial number 414326

Regards, David

Paul1287

11-01-2008, 14:08

I just ordered up a nice '38 black elmar to go on my IIIF. Can anyone recommend what size lenscap I will need for this badboy? Also, what color looks best - black or chrome?

mynikonf2

01-01-2009, 06:12

Here's my contribution:

Hektor 13.5/4.5, 6.3,9,12.5,18,25,36;
coated;
#600874;
meters;
flat black paint

Elmar 9/4,4.5,6.3,9,12.5,18,25,36;
uncoated;
#517235;
meters;
glossy black paint;

Elmar 9/4,4.5,6.3,9,12.5,18,25,36
coated;
#596201
meters;
flat black paint