Help picking rangefinder for travel

[gregarpp]

I am currently using a rather extensive 35mm SLR and Medium format system.
I am looking for something that I can travel with - it must be compact with a built in meter.

I have used the following cameras, and generally did not like them.
Konica Hexar AF (Stealth) Loved the camera, but the 35mm was too wide.
Contax G2 system - I had bought all the lenses.. HATED the AF system in the camera. if it was MF I would have kept and used it all
Minolta Hi-Matic 7s11 - I am using this now, but I want a longer lens

I have been looking at the Voigtlander 75mm/2.5 lens.
This seems ideal
My next lens would be a 50mm variant - compact one
Finally a 24 or 28mm

Any suggestions on a camera to use?
Something compact with focus and a meter.
Do I want M39 or M mount?
Not sure the pros and cons

I really liked the look of the Minolta CLE, but it seems to be a bit out of my budget.

[traveller]

Why not try a Bessa R, Bessa R2A or R3A, they all have built in meters. I use the Bessa R and like her but sometimes it would be great to have the AE of the R2A or R3A so maybe the R2A will be my next one. Using screwmount-lenses with M-Mount is no problem, you can use adapters.
You will find here many informations on them.

John

[ClaremontPhoto]

Leica CM perhaps?

[gregarpp]

What is a CM?

[JoshRoot]

What is a CM?

The CM is an absurdedly expensive point and shoot film camera. I wouldn't buy one. The poster may have been refering to a Leica CL, which was a camera released before the CLE.

I wouldn't bother with either of the Leica/Minolta cameras. They take fine photos, but are hard to repair, have short RF baselines, no 75mm frames, and have meter issues unless you pay to get a very nice one. That having been said, if you find a bargin on either of them, it won't be wasted money.

I would pick up a Bessa R2 if you can find one. Or a Bessa R2a if you like having the option of AE and/or fine 90mm framelines important.

But it all comes down to how much money you have to throw at this project. IF you are made of cash, just go out and buy a new M7. It's a fine camera.

[ClaremontPhoto]

The Leica CM (http://www.leica-camera.com/produkte/compact/cm/index_e.html) is a makeover and update of the Minilux (40mm f2.4 Summarit lens) witha bit of a retro restyle to make it a little M3'ish. The small size, cracking lens and quiet leaf shutter make it a winner for travel.

The original Leica Minilux is discontinued but still around new.

Both models have a zoom variant which is nowhere near as well-thought of.

[kvanderlaag]

I'm pretty partial to my Zorki 6 for compactness, but no built in meter. I have a shoe-mount meter for that.

Also, the Fujica 35-SE is nice, and from what I hear, not too expensive. Built in Selenium meter, reflected. Mine's still dead accurate, after all these years.

[gregarpp]

The Fujica 35-SE is a fixed 45mm lens camera.
I already own a Minolta 7s-11
The CM seems to be the same..

I will look at the Bessa R2
Does the R2 have 90mm framelines?
Only the R2a does?
I will probably never buy a 90mm lens..
most likely the 75mm will be the longest

[Stephanie Brim]

To tell you the honest truth, the best camera for travel is one that you don't really have to worry about changing lenses on. If it was me, I'd probably take my Canon P and either a 50mm or more likely a 35mm lens. And that's it.

[jonasv]

How 'bout a Bessa R? Cheap, nice CV lenses, 35/50/75/90 framelines, ligthweight, ...

[kvanderlaag]

Yeah. Sorry, I'd missed the part where you said you wanted one, specifically, with interchangeable lenses. I'm quite partial to just sort of picking a combo and running with it, especially with travelling. Half the fun is making it work! That might just be my irresponsible, whimsical, youthful attitude, though.

In that case, then, I'd put my hat in for a Leica CL/Minolta CLE. Fantastic camera, nice and small, and on the whole, I'd say worth the $$ for a CLA, especially if it gets that meter working!

[Kevin]

When travelling you have to enjoy your travels. That means sometimes leaving your camera behind, like when diving into the ocean or wading in the thermal baths.

If you have a really expensive camera with you it will upset your mental state if it is lost, stolen or damaged.

For travels you might want to take 2 or 3 small cameras with you. This has certain advantages.

One should be an inexpensive rangefinder with as small flash, such as the Canonet QL17 and Canolite D.

The other should be small rangefinder with a short tele. I just picked up the VC 75mm/2.5 lens myself but cannot comment on it yet. Try to find an older screwmount body for that lens which is dependable and cheap. I would leave the 75 on that body for your entire trip.

The third camera could be a point-and-shoot that has a very good wide-angle lens in the focal lengths 24, 28 or 35mm. Or even a very small digital camera possibly.

Happy Trails,
Kevin

[gregarpp]

This all makes sense.. I should clarify my travel.
Vacations and such, I take my entire Hassy 6x6 kit with me.

I am looking for a work travel camera... something small I can stuff in my carry on bag..

[kvanderlaag]

Hahah! Okay, okay, that changes things considerably.

Bessa R2a/R3a (depending on your preference of VF mag) and a 35/50/75 combo would definitely not be a bad choice!

[Kevin]

I feel like such a fool :eek:

[ClaremontPhoto]

Certainly look at 35mm with one lens only.

If your travel locations are low-crime then go for a premium name. Or otherwise go for a mass market name or an obscure name.

Enjoy the travel. A few years back I used to go to work each day passing Buckingham Palace in London. It was very rare to see anybody watching the Changing of the Guard ceremony except through a camera viewfinder. Nobody ever stood there and watched with their own eyes, and remembered and told their friends and family about the spectacle. Click, click, click.

[gregarpp]

I am going to look into the Bessa cameras.
Is there any reason why I should get m39 or M mount?
Does it really matter?

[yossarian]

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating this option, just mentioning it 'cause no one else
has. For a while B&H had a nice price on the Bessa clone Rollei RF, with the 40 Sonnar, but this goes back a few months. Problem--no 75mm frameline, just 80
(and for sticker shock, check the price of the 80).

Fred

NEVERMIND--I just checked the price and it's UP: $999.95

[kvanderlaag]

I'd get the newer ones, with the M mount, since it allows backwards compatability with M39 lenses. There's not really any other mount currently in production, so an M/M39 camera is only logical.

[ClaremontPhoto]

If you already got Hasselblad 6x6 we know you've got money.

Get a Voigtlander R2A or R3A and one new Leica M lens.

[fgianni]

Contax G2 system - I had bought all the lenses.. HATED the AF system in the camera. if it was MF I would have kept and used it all

Sorry for the NOOB question but isn't the G2 both AF and MF?
Couldn't you have used it just with MF?

[gregarpp]

I was actually looking at a Leica 50mm lens. As this is the lens I would use the most..
I think I will use the 75mm.. I use my 85mm/1.4 the most on my Minolta 9

I just added my 7sII to the for sale section.. I can sell these rollei 35mm SLR gear I really don't need.
I had planned on doing some lens tests..
Comparing my 85mm/1.4 and 50mm/1.4 to the Rollei Zeiss versions.....
I was never able to obtain a nice decent Rollei body
I ordered 10 rollei to canon EF adapters. So......

[gregarpp]

The manual focus on the G2 was not very easy to use.
I like to turn a lens.

[JoshRoot]

The G2 is a very good camera in many ways.

Manual focus, however, is not one of those ways.

[gregarpp]

R3A Finder 1:1 life size, 40/50/75/90 framelines
R2A Finder .7 magnification, 35/50/75/90 framelines

I am not sure what all this exactly means..
How do I use a 28mm lens?
What if I want to use a 40mm on the R2A?

[traveller]

Do you wear glasses? If yes the R2A will be better for you because you can get a problem seeing the R3A 40 mm framelines. I tried both and the R2A is better for me.
Using a 28 mm you need a external Viewfinder

[gregarpp]

I don't wear glasses..
And I like a bright viewfinder like my Maxxum 9 has.

[ClaremontPhoto]

Then it's the R3A for you.

[Rich Silfver]

Look into a Plaubel Makina 67. You'll get the MF advantage in a very compact size.

[gregarpp]

Cameraquest.com lists the R3A at $539
This seems to be around the same price as the CLE..
Are there other used Leica's in this price range.
I think a Leica or CLE would hold its value a bit better...
Just wondering

[jano]

how about the bronica or mamiya medium format rangefinders? They are "small" when compared to other MF stuff.. I'm currently, uhm.. reading about them :)

[wrenhunter]

The R3A is a nice camera, and you do get AE and the M-mount. But if this is really only going to be a throw-in-the-bag camera and not your main body, a Bessa R might be a better choice-- if you (or the airline) loses it. I'd rather be out $250 or so than twice that.

[gregarpp]

I might just get a Bessa R at first..
Just to make sure I like working with the camera and lenses.

[fgianni]

The manual focus on the G2 was not very easy to use.
I like to turn a lens.

On several RF cameras you don't turn a lens to focus, on the Makina 67 is a knob, on the certo six is a lever.
What do you have to do to focus the G2 manually?

[jano]

On several RF cameras you don't turn a lens to focus, on the Makina 67 is a knob, on the certo six is a lever.
What do you have to do to focus the G2 manually?

There's that large wheel/knob on the front of the camera.

That's actually very easy to use.. the tricky part is the "visual feedback" you get from inside the viewfinder. Instead of overlapping two pictures, you simply get these lcd "tick marks" that you try to center. If you go too far to the right, you focus too far into the distance, and too much to the left you are focused too close. This kind of feedback is more difficult to get accustomed to than the standard rangefinder.

[anselwannab]

I use a Leitz-Minolta CL for travel. Drop it in my breifcase and forget about it. Some plastic film containers for rolling my own film allows me to skip having them x-rayed. It is smaller and more compact than a tradional M, which can be important to fit in a pocket. I,m visiting a buddy in Milan, as you can see I can,t figure out these Eye-talian keyboards, and I just took it to see the US-Slovakia hockey game last night. What a difference that day was to the day before when I walked around Milan with my 20D and 17-40.

If you want new and AE, the R2A is the way to go. Maybe with a collapsible 50 (watch the depth) from the FSU to keep cost and size down.

[dgray]

In your proposed set up, the choice of either a 24 or 28 makes all the difference in the world. If you prefer a 24, then no camera will let you frame without an external viewfinder. In this case you might as well get a high mag viewfinder so you can focus and see better with the 50 and 75 lenses you prefer. If, however, the external viewfinder is too much of a pain then you want a viewfinder which allows you to see the 28 framelines. The R2a or CLE are both great for this, but you sacrifice somewhat in seeing the longer telephoto framelines.

[dostacos]

I am going to look into the Bessa cameras.
Is there any reason why I should get m39 or M mount?
Does it really matter?
an M mount camera can use screw mount lenses, a screw mount camera cannot.

I have Bessa Rs which I love, however if I did it all over I would go for a BESSA R2 this is manual camera M mount. Those that have them say the build quality is better than the Rs and you do not have to worry about carring around a brick if the battery dies like the R2A or R3A.

add the 28/1.8 or 35/2.5mm LOVE this one for the contrast, 50/1.5 OR the 2.5regular and 75mm tele

if you are flush go for the 35/1.2 :eek: $819

of course costs need to be considered, and the bessa R with the 35/2.5 is $399 [less than any of the Mount Rs body only] the 75 is $295 then the question is which lens for low light, 28/1.9 35/1.7 or 50/1.5 [I did not mention the 35/1.2 & 40/1.4 because they are both M mount and the R3A is the only one with 40mm frame lines of course use the 35 or 50 and live with the difference ;)

You can also go with the russian lenses for the 50mm and longer [there seems to be issues with the wider lenses fitting the Bessas]

[dostacos]

oh and the 25/4 is non coupled but has a hugh DOF that it has not been an issue for me so if you like wide wide angles....

[yossarian]

On several RF cameras you don't turn a lens to focus, on the Makina 67 is a knob, on the certo six is a lever.
What do you have to do to focus the G2 manually?

The G Series are also a "focus by wire" system, so you don't have mechanical feedback. I'm oversimplifying a little here, but the end result was you never get
1 to 1 input/output response. God I hope that makes sense...

Fred

[sf]

I know that on trips, I always want something very capable : like something AF, small, fast lens, etc. No changing lenses if I can help it. Contax T3. Can't even think of a better choice. Not even the Leica answer to the T3.

If you want manual focus, try the T. Or the Minolta CLE - I've seen that camera do great things. And with a little 40mm on it, you would be hard pressed to find a better compact 35mm manual focus rangefinder.

But, all that aside, I took my RF645 along to England and France, and it performed well, was not difficult to carry for 10+ hours of walking each day, and I am glad I have those huge negatives for serious prints of things I may never see again.

[Nearsighted]

I'm really partial to my Bessa R. But if I had it to do over I would buy the R2A or R3A for the AE Auto. I don't care much about the M mount. M mount lenses are out of my price range anyway. I think the CV lenses all in all are second to none and they are affordable.

[sleepyhead]

If you like and already use 6x6, how about a Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7?

[Jacob]

If You get confused with the frameline issue, get a Bessa T. It has none!
...But a great rangefinder, m-mount, a nice meter, super bright accessory finders and is very light. And a great price at PhotoVillage. When travelling I carry it with a CV 75/2.5 and a CV 25/4 for daytime strolling and a Canon 50/1.4 when it gets darker. The 25 is a great "normal" lens for street action, interiors (bright ones...) and architecture while the 75 works perfect for portraits, a little distant scenes, details in the streets and on buildings.

I have to admit there IS sometimes a problem changing both lens and VF. I am planning to build some kind of combinded viewfinder for the 25-75 lenses, sometime, somehow...

Or You could get a Bessa T AND a Bessa L, the first with a tele and the latter with a wide. Both are light, fairly small, cheap and you escape the lens switching dilemma.

Or a...

/Jacob

[berci]

I recommend the XPan or any of the RF645s, either Fuji or Bronica.

[gregarpp]

I am looking for something small and compact..
I already own a MF system. I don't need another one.

Thanks!

[RML]

So many members, so many answers. :)

Greg, you're on your own here! I'd suggest to get in touch with an RFF member or two, let them bring gear and play with it some time. Only then you can decide for sure what you like. I simply took the plunge and bought a Bessa L with CV 25/4 lens. It was my main (travel) combo for over a year. After that I progressed to a Bessa R, a Leica M2 and now the Epson R-D1.

I wouldn't have wanted it any other way, though I might have gone for a Bessa R2 from the beginning if I had been able to handle one (and know the difference between M mount and LTM).

[bob cole]

a Yashica T-4...regards, bob

take a look: http://www.photo.net/equipment/point-and-shoot/intro

[Steve B]

The Bessa R2/2a do have 90mm frame lines. The R2 is my "take anywhere" camera as its expensive enough to be satisfying to use but not expensive enough to attract vilianous attention. Also, as pointed out above, with the M mount you have access to a huge variety of wonderful lenses in both LTM and M mount from a wide variety of manufacturers.

[sychan]

Pick up a Bessa R3a with a 40/1.4 and a 75/2.5. Should cover most situations and be relatively compact. Though a cheaper choice would be the Bessa R kit with the 35/2.5 and the 75/2.5, if you don't need low light or shallow DoF.

But, uhhhh, even cheaper would be a Nikon fg with a 50/1.8 pancake and a 105/2.5...not really pocketable, but would fit into a bag with no problems.

[raid]

I have been using a Bessa T and a Canon P in my travels and have been very happy with both cameras. The P is a workhorse and will not fail you, while the Bessa T has a built-in TTL meter and is very light. I am used to a Leica M3 while at home, and I have found the P-T combo to be a reasonable set-up. I sometimes add a Rolleifelx TLR camera for those special photo occasions that require a larger negative film. As for lenses, I use the M lenses and Canon lenses.

[gregarpp]

I have been buying various cameras to try out..
Bessa R Leica III Canon RF and Minolta CL.
I like them all... but they are not all perfect.
I bought a CLE tonight... I will see how that one goes.