My Zeiss Ikon Xpan !

[Dingo]

Hi everybody,

Just finished a little project, change a Zeiss Ikon collapsible 6X6 into a Xpan, anybody interested ?

[rover]

Home project?

I saw this done with a Holga, but that probably isn't the same. Nice images though on the whole film strip, sprocket holes included. How do you mask the viewfinder?

[Dingo]

Rover,

This is not a Holga, this is a Zeiss Ikon 518/16 with 75mm f/4.5.
I used some common adhesive tape to mask the viewfinder, not very good result. To give you some more information, here is what I have done to the inner part of the camera :

[Pherdinand]

Do you have some results to post already?:)

[rover]

How do you rewind the film into the canister? Do you just unload in the dark?

[Pherdinand]

How do you know how much to wind for just enough frame spacing? Is it the Zeiss Ikon with auto frame stop or the red-window on the backdoor-stuff?

It's a great idea and i was thinking about it myself since i've seen the holga version, but i did not realize it could be done with a good quality folder too:)

[Pherdinand]

Ah, i see you masked the sprocket holes too. Would film flatness be a problem if you keep the edges hangin' in the air, you think?

[FrankS]

Other than using film emulsions not available in 120 format, and the slight saving in film cost, why not just shoot 120 film and crop into panoramic format during printing? Also, what did you do to cover the red window used to index the film which normally has a paper backing? I suppose you figured how many turns on the film advance wheel is needed to move the film to the next frame?

[Dingo]

Thank you for all of your questions, in fact I have thought of all of them during the modifications. And here are the answers :

1. The film of 120 and the finishing costs are much higher here in Hong Kong, at least from my own experiences, and 120 films are not that popular here as well. Talking about price, it costs only about US$2 for a roll of 135 film and the finishing charge including 4R printing of one roll is only about US$5, and a free CD of scans !

2. Yes, I have to take out the film in the dark ( a black rubbish bag is a good tool).

3. Yes, I need to add some markings on the winding knob to make sure the winding is enough and not too much. (1 and 2/5 turn for one shot).

4. Yes, I have to keep the back window completely closed !

5. Yes, keeping the film flat is a tough task, I need some more adjustments before next roll of shooting.

I will post the photos to this site ASAP when I get back the photos and scans.

Thank you for your interest to my DIY project.

Some more pictures for your information :

[Dingo]

And more :

[Designer]

Nice!

Looking forward to see some photos!

[Pherdinand]

Frank: your "why" question/argumentation is quite valid; there's one good answer however: just for fun! :D Now doing this with a 6x9 folder would be even more fun!
I asked myself the same regarding the X-pan, which is a much more expensive fun.

By the way, is it possible to scan "panoramic" aka long-frame 35mm film in film scanners such as the minolta Dimage types? or are they limited to separated 24x36mm frames? That would be a real cost-effective advantage against using 120 film. Although... you could physically crop the 120 film to fit the neg strip holder :D

[Pherdinand]

I just got an idea: a movable (from outside, backdoor closed)horizontal mask at the 6x6/6x9 folders' film gate. Masking the top or the bottom half of the film. So you take TWO panoramics of approx. 27x56 mm, one above the other, not losing any of the 120-film area :D Later on, after developing, you can cut the whole neg in two thinner ones.
How comes no camera manufacturer thought about this.

I know, designing such a mask would be, so to say, challenging ;) Anybody up to it?

[Pherdinand]

OK, an improvement of the above idea. Mask the top half of the film gate permanently. When the 12 shots are done, remove the two film spoons, and insert the film again (to roll back to the original spool) - it will be, of course, upside down, so now the alreadyexposed area will be masked. Would need a pretty tight masking, but i'm sure it could be done:D

Once i'll try it with my tlr's, maybe.

[Pherdinand]

film spooLs, not film spooNs, above. Hehh!

[Doug]

Interesting idea, Pherdinand! Ideally also the lens should shift up and down to center over the lower or upper strip of the negative. Otherwise it's like having a permanant rise or fall effect.

I have indeed cropped 6x7 to pano proportions with good effect. VERY flexible, as there's no masks to move, and decisions can be made later on how much to crop. Also a choice of framing in the first place for later cropping most/all on top or bottom to achieve that lens rise/fall effect.

Of course 120/220 film is most easily suitable, but that doesn't mean there's not good reason to want to use 35mm film with a little home-project too!

[Dingo]

I think why Xpan is so successful and facinating is that it let us enter the medium format world using only 135 flim, it is kind of installing a turbo to a 1500cc car. And that is what I try to do to my 6X6, and to me cropping a 6X6 film into a panorama is just a waste in certain extent, and it can also be done afterwards.
Only my stupid thoughts, and the main goal of this little project is to have fun, not a serious business.

[Rich Silfver]

C'mon Doug - only 3 more posts ;)

[Doug]

Well, here's number 998... :)

[Pherdinand]

Yes, i thought a bit more about the idea, (during the night hehe)
and i figured that the vignetting/light falloff is not ideal if the mask is not centered. However, on a 6x9, the lens is supposed to cover 9 cm in BOTH horizontal and vertical directions...that is a circle of 11 cm approx., so a 3x9 cm panoramic with the top or bottom of the gate covered, should not show major differences in light falloff in its top vs bottom corners, unless the light falloff is seriously bad on a 6x9 frame too. In panoramic, i'd use small apertures too, for a large DOF, and that helps for less falloff/vignetting as well.

Anyway, i'm curious about the results of Dingo's modified camera, and maybe i'll try to do the thing with the 6x9 bessa i'm planning to get soon. Sorry to steal your thread, Dingo:)

[Dingo]

These are the results of my Zeiss Ikon Xpan :

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/649/ppuser/192/password//page/

A little light leak from the back door window, ha...
Anyway, they proved my idea works !
Some more photos later tonight, comments welcomed.

BTW, I believe a 6X9 folding is a better choice !

[denishr]

Dingo, the results look great! I particularly like the DOF play with the plate....

[peter_n]

Yes Dingo very cool. :cool: I like the plate too... :)

[Pherdinand]

Boy these pics are fantastic! And there's a great contribution of the photographer to that - it's not only the merit if the camera designer:)

Reallt, they are very nice. I think i'll get a folder to do the trick i described above. Just i hope i will have "the eye" to take photos like this!!!

Also, seems that a 6x6 gives enough panoramic impact, no real need for the 3:1 ratio of a 6x9.

My favourites are the boats, the kids at the water and the plate-dofplay.

[zuikologist]

I hope you realise you are all crazy - bu the results are great, especially the kids by the water shot (very nostalgic).

This thread sums up RFF - it just about works, but noone quite knows how or why.

Great work.

[Nick R.]

You've a good eye, Dingo.
Good thing you masked like you did. I don't think these shots would have worked with the sprocket holes showing. Like to see what you do with a Moskva (6x9).

[Heath]

Dingo, these are great. I wonder if using a used film spool as the takeup spool would work?

hm, I have a few old folders that may work doing this. I just might give it a go. First I might just try the cropping of a 6x9. Now I just need to finish the roll in my Ensign Selfix20 that I have been using in the 6x9 format for a couple of B&W landscapes last weekend.

Heath

[Tim]

hot damn......
now, somewhere around here in this mess i call a study i have a zeiss nettar 6x6 folder, similar to this....sadly it's only got the novatar 75/f6.3 lens rather than a tessar, but...........