View Full Version : you can never have enough 50's
The J3 I got from Brett and sent to Brian to massage arrived today, completing my 50mm lens line-up.
from top left: 1969 Summicron, collapsible Summicron, Summarit
from middle left: Nikkor, Summitar, Elmar
from bottom left: J-3, J-8, Fed
Now, to start testing!
Very nice Frank.
When ever I feel in a rut I buy another 50. I am starting to feel the need for another.
Andrew Touchon
01-31-2006, 14:18
I don't see a 50mm summilux ASPH in that line-up yet. ;)
back alley
01-31-2006, 14:19
Very nice Frank.
When ever I feel in a rut I buy another 50. I am starting to feel the need for another.
my ruts lead to more major overhauls.
i need to tone down...
Too rich for my blood, Andrew! I'm good with these.
very nice!
i look forward to your tests/ examples.
i own 3 cameras and all have 50's. never bought anything else and really don't care to. yet. until i feel like i am in a rut i will stick with them.
how will you go about testing?
-billy
Andrew Touchon
01-31-2006, 14:24
Frank,
It's too rich for me also. :bang:
A very nice collection of 50's, Frank. Now you need to give each of them a good workout!
Walker
Brian Sweeney
01-31-2006, 14:28
Those 50's are addictive.
I'll be adding a "Millenium Nikkor" to the fold.
...frank... this is your conscience.... test the J-3....
I'll test these in a manner similar to Raid's 50mm lens test. There will be light sources within the frame, hopefully a person (if I can find someone patient enough) as the subject, and a good deal of space behind the subject with details so as to see how the OOF areas look.
brightsky
01-31-2006, 14:30
What a fine group of lenses!
Before I found RFF, I had only 1 RF 50, an old Summilux. I don't think my Nikkor-H counts as it rests on an SLR.
After RFF, I added a current 50 Summicron and am waiting on a 1962 Elmar 2.8.
And, I've been thinking about a DR, lens only. This has got to stop! :)
Thank you!
There are some natural rivals here: Fed vs. Elmar, J3 vs. Summarit, J8 vs. Nikkor, and newer vs. older Summicron.
35mmdelux
01-31-2006, 14:51
nice, Frank. But can you use them all at the same time!
Frank Granovski
01-31-2006, 14:54
When you've finished testing, let us know which one's best. :cool:
Oh, you guys think you're so funny! :)
RJBender
01-31-2006, 15:11
I thought you were talking about these:
http://www.kiat.net/images/miss-it/50new.jpg
Nice collection, Frank. :)
R.J.
I could go the same thing, but it would be 35mm lenses.
YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MANY 35MM LENSES.
Leo
Stephanie Brim
01-31-2006, 15:39
I think you can never have enough lenses, period. ;)
Brian Sweeney
01-31-2006, 15:46
It's really bad when you buy cameras that you know are "Unorthodox" because the lens that is on it has such a great reputation. And then try to think of ways of "hacking" it onto a different mount.
But Frank! You need a Nokton! Of course you might need the Prominent that it sits on to use it...
Stephanie Brim
01-31-2006, 15:47
Hehehe...wonder what that Prominent went for on the 'bay. (hint, hint) :D
Brian Sweeney
01-31-2006, 15:54
Depite the Lies to JD/2 to talk him out of selling his M3 (which he did to me), I always regretted selling my Prominent with Nokton. Another one will be coming in. I can feel it's presence. AND THAT ONE will not go out on the Bay. My first one, I sold almost 15 years ago to help finance a Nikon F2AS.
Stephanie Brim
01-31-2006, 16:00
The one that I had my eye on had a stuck shutter and needed a CLA...but the glass (of all three lenses!) looked fine. I'm still curious as to what that one went for. It was in a case and everything with the three lenses and something else...
Frank: Let us know how/when you will do your testing of these lenses. Sounds like plenty of fun. I will do another test with nine different 50mm lenses soon. I don't have some of your lenses though.
Jungle Jim
01-31-2006, 16:47
Wowweee Frank, now you can die happy! Of course, you can always add the canon RF 50's to your collection LOL!
Frank, (and everyone)
This is my first post. I'm glad you have such a large group of 50mm to choose from. I have only five between three differeent camera systems, good luck with yours. As for me I'm curious about the Noctilux. I like the idea of a narrow depth of field and also the ability to make the background blur away-when I want it to. Lastly fast shutter speed in low light I think is useful. I don't have the cash for this lens-yet, but I'm working on it.
I don't want you to get the wrong idea so I better say that as of now I only have SLR's. Two old Ricoh's and a new Canon Elan 7 and a new "old" Nikon FM2, and a couple of Canon DSLR's. But I'm researching rangefinder cameras and lenses. My reasons are several, first no mirror slap noise, second size and weight, and then I don't want to leave out - smallish lenses. The major to unknown is the actual "rangefinder" mechanism in the camera. But the unknown has never stopped me before. Two months ago I got an old Crown Graphic and I think I now have her ready to take some photographs. The rails were out of alignment and the lens was sticking. It has a "Kalart" rangefinder, but I don't think it's anything like the 35mm rangefinder cameras.
I've been reading from this forum for two months and so last week I joined up.
I wish I had joined eirlier becase there were a lot of interesting posts.
My best idea of what 35mm rangefinder I would /could get is the Voightlander
Bessa R3A Camera body and a Nokton 40mm f/1.4 lens. No 50mm yet.
B&W film is one of my loves.
Both of you have a nice collection of 50mm lenses and I like the reference books in rover's library!
Joseph
Frank, (and everyone)
This is my first post. I'm glad you have such a large group of 50mm to choose from. I have only five between three differeent camera systems, good luck with yours. As for me I'm curious about the Noctilux. I like the idea of a narrow depth of field and also the ability to make the background blur away-when I want it to. Lastly fast shutter speed in low light I think is useful. I don't have the cash for this lens-yet, but I'm working on it.
I don't want you to get the wrong idea so I better say that as of now I only have SLR's. Two old Ricoh's and a new Canon Elan 7 and a new "old" Nikon FM2, and a couple of Canon DSLR's. But I'm researching rangefinder cameras and lenses. My reasons are several, first no mirror slap noise, second size and weight, and then I don't want to leave out - smallish lenses. The major to unknown is the actual "rangefinder" mechanism in the camera. But the unknown has never stopped me before. Two months ago I got an old Crown Graphic and I think I now have her ready to take some photographs. The rails were out of alignment and the lens was sticking. It has a "Kalart" rangefinder, but I don't think it's anything like the 35mm rangefinder cameras.
I've been reading from this forum for two months and so last week I joined up.
I wish I had joined eirlier becase there were a lot of interesting posts.
My best idea of what 35mm rangefinder I would /could get is the Voightlander
Bessa R3A Camera body and a Nokton 40mm f/1.4 lens. No 50mm yet.
B&W film is one of my loves.
Welcome to the forum Peter. I was just thinking of taunting Frank a little by suggesting he mortgage the house for a Noctilux instead of hocking the car for a Summilux ASPH. ;)
The Nocti is a dreadfully heavy lens to carry around so do not get one and think you are going the easy route when comes to carrying it around. The throw on the focus is long but I like it that way. To my perceptions it allows me to fine tune the focus in low light without overshooting. If you want to primarily shoot in low light situations then this is the lens for you. When you first lay hands on one I recommend using from about 2 meters minimum focusing distance to infinity. Below 2 meters the depth of field is very unforgiving. If you can swing the Nocti then definitely consider getting the Summilux 50 ASPH instead. I like this lens allot but there is something about it I think you should consider. Mainly the build quality/feel of the Summilux 50 ASPH. I do not consider this lens up to snuff in that area. To my hands it feels less then the older Summicrons/Summiluxs. Definitely consider trying the older glass first. Hope I did not get too wordy for ya!
PS. Frank, those are beautiful ladies you have there. I am jealous. Especially for your collasible Summicron. ;)
Both of you have a nice collection of 50mm lenses and I like the reference books in rover's library!
Joseph
Thank you, I actually have read all those books too.
egpj,
I want the Noctilux for low light and for bokeh. My Canon 85mm f/1.2L is good at both of these tasks. So I believe the Noctilux will be better in low light and I 'm not sure about the bokeh. I want to shoot at min focus distance as much as possible. The 85 is a big group of optical glass, very heavy. The Noctilux must be lighter which is a plus.
I know my Canon 20D can be set to ISO3200 (I'm not convinced that it's the equal to ISO3200 film speed) that and the 85 at f/1.2 allows me to take photographs in very low light. I have heard that users of the Leica Noctilux can take photographs in "available darkness". That phrase has me interested.
Frank Granovski
02-01-2006, 15:45
Frank, my 40mm 'cron will be for sale at the end of this month.
Frank, my 40mm 'cron will be for sale at the end of this month.
Frank: Which lens will replace your [fine] 40mm Summicron? A VC lens by any chance?
yossarian
02-01-2006, 16:42
You could really speed up your testing if you had a turret like the Rectaflex. Not exactly a popular camera--proctologists, maybe...?
I'm not quite sure that I know how it happened, but my PayPal account does show that I paid for them all... I have only 1 Zorki-4 at the moment, but an I-22 (collapsible), a J-8 (black), an I-50 (rigid silver), and an I-61L/D (panda). I had actually hoped that Frank would have a little more details about his testing since I clearly need to consider doing the same... I can't see needing or keeping them all, and if I had to choose today, I would keep the I-22 for portability (drop it in the old briefcase...) and the I-61L/D. But then without testing I would never know if I made the right choices. Maybe I need a J-12 to mix it up...
wclavey, keep the J-8!
What else would you like to know about testing lenses?
You can never have too many 50's!
The J-12 would be good too.
You have a very interesting group going there Frank. Everyone will love to see your comparo.
I am slowly getting my own collection started and find it a lot of fun. Have film at the developers too. Cheers. :) :)
shaaktiman
02-02-2006, 19:12
You guys have it all wrong.
All you really need is a single good zoom lens.
Stephanie Brim
02-02-2006, 19:14
You! Back to your corner! :p
Gabriel M.A.
02-02-2006, 21:07
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Next thing I know, you'll say a P&S digicam rules! :o
It's ok, I had a fever once too; it can make you say some silly things :p
Honu-Hugger
02-02-2006, 22:05
Inspired by this thread I decided to round up my 50's and I must respectfully disagree: when you find lenses you forgot you had there's a good chance you have too many :D. I'll probably offer some of the duplicates for sale here after things settle down a little -- Contax and Alpa 50's if anyone is in need.
Just what I need, some 50s in CRF mount.
Brian Sweeney
02-03-2006, 01:28
> when you find lenses you forgot you had there's a good chance you have too many
That's not so bad.
When you find 50's that you forgot you had and don't use them because you have no cameras that have that style mount. And not for lack of trying!
Anyone need some lenses for a Wollensak Fastax camera?
Gabriel M.A.
02-03-2006, 12:25
Anyone need some lenses for a Wollensak Fastax camera?
rlmao -- Enjoying the S3 Brian? I know the pain...felt it when I got my 'lux.
Frank & Brain:
Beautiful Collections!
Please tell us which one is your one true love, and why...
It's really bad when you buy cameras that you know are "Unorthodox" because the lens that is on it has such a great reputation. And then try to think of ways of "hacking" it onto a different mount.
When you find 50's that you forgot you had and don't use them because you have no cameras that have that style mount. And not for lack of trying!
Brian,
Ever have a hardware solution before your have a problem? It hurts just as much, if not more...
I thought you were talking about these:
http://www.kiat.net/images/miss-it/50new.jpg
Nice collection, Frank. :)
R.J.,
You just make my day!
Cheers
Will
50mm lenses are wonderful to own and use. I will slowly add additional FSU lenses to my limited collection. I only have a 50/1.4 (adjusted by Brian) and a couple of Industrar 61L 50/2.8 that came with the two FED5 bodies I bought new before the FSU collapsed. Now they cost so little.
Raid, a J-8 (Zeiss Sonnar copy) and a collapsible I-10 (Elmar sort-of copy) are the ones to get now that you have a J-3.
Will, if I could choose only one, it would be the collapsible Summicron at this point. Some of the other lenses I just don't know well enough yet.
Raid, a J-8 (Zeiss Sonnar copy) and a collapsible I-10 (Elmar sort-of copy) are the ones to get now that you have a J-3.
Will, if I could choose only one, it would be the collapsible Summicron at this point. Some of the other lenses I just don't know well enough yet.
Frank,
I saw a collapsible Summicron for sale on PN for less than $270 last night. Check it out.
Raid, thanks, but I don't need to, I've got one.
OK, Frank. Maybe someone who does not have such a lens will pick it up. I will look for good examples of the two FSU lenses suggested by you.
RAid, there are 2 types of collapsible lenses: I-22 and the Fed I-10. I have read where the I-22 doesn't fit on some cameras because of the infinity lock tab. My I-10 fits on the screw mount and M mount cameras that I have.
RAid, there are 2 types of collapsible lenses: I-22 and the Fed I-10. I have read where the I-22 doesn't fit on some cameras because of the infinity lock tab. My I-10 fits on the screw mount and M mount cameras that I have.
Oh, It's really easy to screw out the little pin that gets in the way. I just did that and today I took it all apart and cleaned all the glass surfaces of haze. Well that's an I-50 but It should be the same sort of tab as the I-22, right? I couldn't swab away the scratches though :(
/matti
Matti, that's good info to know, thanks.
FSU collapsibles: I-10 (Fed), I-22, and I-50
Frank:
Thanks for the suggestions in your PM about running a test. Here is what I have done. I set up a quick indoor scene with my son working at a table. I included a resolution test card at roughly the same focal plane as where I had focused the camera (his face). I set the camera up 1.7 meters away. I shot 3 exposures with each 50mm lens at the lowest 3 f/stops.
Below are scans of each lens at f/4, so that I should be able to compare roughly equivalent depths of field. Please pardon the dust (boulders, in some cases)... I was not doing these scans for artistic value, just to get them done quickly.
I am disturbed by how unsharp they look, but perhaps I am not accustomed to viewing scanned 35mm negatives... most of my work is in 6x6. Or perhaps the rangefinder on the Zorki-4 needs adjustment... I will check that this afternoon with a focusing screen taped to the film guides.
I do not know what constitutes the "best" lens from the group... I can certainly use the resolution chart in each to pick the sharpest, but that is not necessarily the best.
I'll take any guidance...
Looks to me that the Zorki needs adjusting.
It does look like the camera body is uniformly causing the focus to be in front of your son's face, more to the plane of the computer lid. What did you scan the negs with, and how did you do it? Someone else will have to help with scanner settings and stuff.
The negatives were scanned on our Epson 4990 scanner at the density my son normally uses for all his work, which I think is pretty high, but I don't know for sure.
I just tested the lenses by putting one of my Olympus focusing screens in the film channel of the Zorki and checking the focus with a loop at close range and at a distance. On the close range tests, I measured the actual distance with a meter tape and the lenses were within 2 cm (~1") of the markings on the barrel, so I think they are OK. But when I checked the actual focus of the lens against the RF spot, it was off by a bit: a subject 1.7 m (actual distance) showed in focus at 1.5 m according to the RF. So there is some adjustment needed there - - I need to find the instructions for doing that.
But if, for a moment, we assume that I wanted to take pictures of the laptop lid rather than my son, which of the lenses has the best look to it? The I22 seems to be the sharpest at f/4 while the I61 seems to have the most contrast. The J8 seems to have a slightly off exposure. I can see that the images and the "air" they create are different, but I don't know which to choose.
Which to keep? The I-22 because it collapses, and the J-8 (if you have a good one) because it's a Zeiss Sonnar clone. What was the other lens?
It's difficult from these test photos to determine which lens is "best". Try again with more dynamic lighting, I think.
From left to right, matching the thumbnails, they are: I61 L/D, I22, I50 (rigid) and J8.
Thanks for your input, too.
BTW, my son chose those two, as well, not knowing anything about the lenses, but by the way the negative strips looked.
It's difficult from these test photos to determine which lens is "best". Try again with more dynamic lighting, I think.
This is a well-planned test, but we still don't know for sure whether one lens stands out being the "best" somehow. Maybe having a window-lit face with allow us to see which lens gives more pleasing results or maybe have some close-up shots will help.
Well here are most of my Soviet 50's, none of them have turned out to be dogs and several are very nice. I'm thinking of getting some adaptor rings so I can use them on my DSLR for some cheap testing (Only close focusing distance I know, but at least it will take the lens mount to film plane distance and RF accuracy out of the equation) to try and pick out the gems of the bunch for further testing with film (on my RF's). Its a crime to have so many and nearly always reach for my trusted black J8 :cool:
Seen here are various versions of J8, J3, Ind-22, Ind-50, Ind-26m, Ind-61, Ind-61 L/D .. While I'm not actively looking at the moment I'm still after a nice black J3 and a collapsible Ind-50 to round out the collection :D
You have an impressive collection of FSU lenses. I only have two so far, and I am now trying to use whatever I have and to test these lenses so I better know what I have.
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