View Full Version : Walgreens, Round 3, it happened to *ME* this time ...
For those who remember the story, I had a friend who had Walgreens refuse to do develop-only/CD without prints. I wrote about that last September. I've had countless Walgreens do DO-CD over the past year or so and never had them refuse ...
... until this morning. Of all places, again, Las Vegas.
I had a few rolls I had shot this trip and I wanted to get them processed so, I went to one Walgreens where I've gone before and I know they've done a consistent job with DO-CD.
So I go over to the photo counter and eventually up walks Jenn (two n's) and she takes my phone number, punches it into the computer, totally butchers my last name, and goes on with the drill ...
Jenn: Next day or 1 hour?
Me: 1 hour, please.
Jenn: Single or double prints?
Me: No prints, develop only, with CD.
Jenn: We can't do that.
Me: I've had it done here several times.
Jenn: That's impossible, we can't do it.
Me: This very store, last October.
Jenn: There's no way we can do that.
Me: What you do is specify no prints, add a CD.
Jenn: We can't do that.
Me: {getting a little perturbed} Can't, or won't? I know your machine will do it.
Jenn: {stressful} It's company policy not to.
Me: Can we get the manager over here, please?
Jenn: {on phone, disgusted} Manager to photo for customer service.
Jenn avoided eye contact with me until the manager arrived. He was rather tall, dark complexion, dark hair, very friendly. Actually, she avoided eye contact with me after he arrived too. :)
Manager: Hi, can I help you?
Me: {holding up film} Yes, develop only, no prints, add a CD?
Manager: Sure.
Me: She said you don't do that.
Manager: Well, we don't do it very often, but we sure do it.
Manager steps to computer terminal motions to Jenn to observe.
Manager: Here's how you do it, you set zero sets of prints ...
Jenn: But Mr. {so and so} said not to do that.
Manager: Well, maybe over there you didn't but here we do.
Hmmmm ... {wheels turnin*** ... for those who remember the first part of this story, I wonder if she was transferred from one of those other stores.
Anyway, he gets out 3 yellow envelopes, tags them, starts to put the film in, hesitates, takes the film over to the Frontier, and says that he'll get these started right away and if I want to hang around a few minutes I won't have to come back.
He then asks me "Out of curiosity, why don't you want prints?"
I explain that it's really several reasons, one I'm out of town and I try to pack light and don't want to carry prints but mostly that I print very little of what I shoot and such.
He then asks "Are you a photographer?"
I say yes, but strictly amateur, and that kinda broke the ice and we had a nice chat about what I shoot, what he used to shoot "before he went digital", Walgreens, film, and the Frontier machines.
I told him the story of my co-worker having DO-CD refused at 2 stores and he said that he had heard of those incidents. He did not go into detail and I didn't press him for any. He did say to the effect of "We've talked about this in our meetings. We don't make as much as if we sold 2 sets of prints, but we do make money on it and it does bring customers into the store for other things."
I asked him about the Agfa/Walgreens $5 and change 8-packs and how long they will be around. He said that he doesn't know how much is in the pipeline but he knows there will be no more once the stock is gone.
They had lots of it, if I didn't have to take it back on a plane I would pick up a few more ...
He did say, and I quote "There are absolutely no plans I know of to discontinue selling film in the near future. As long as it sells, we will sell it." He said that film sales this holiday season have been good.
I asked about the amount of floor/shelf space they give to film, and he said that it varies, depending on what photo products they have on special and what other kinds of electronic specials that might cut the film space for a while. He said there was no grandiose plan to squeeze out film shelf space. He did qualify that by saying that if something, anything, does not sell over several months, they will reduce the stock level or even discontinue it.
He specifically pointed out something I didn't notice, a revolving display out in the middle of the floor of what he called "reloadables", cheap film cameras that were not to be disposed but could be reused. This display was in addition to the film behind the photo counter and up by the electronics.
One thing he did point out was that until recently they had film on a peg rack under the photo counter, and that it was a blind spot and kids were walking out with the single rolls, so this store and several others took that out.
Jenn never reappeared. I think she was staying out of my way. :)
JoeFriday
12-28-2005, 09:40
thanks for the info.. it's good ammunition in case any of us also runs into that situation.. I personally never had a problem at Walgreens (altho many of the clerks didn't know HOW to set up a DO/CD order, but they knew it could be done). But I've since started going to Target.. mostly because it's closer to my house, and the girl who usually is working is very cute and friendly. :) The last time I had 1-hour processing done, she wasn't there and the 'new girl' didn't know how to do a DO order (I no longer bother with the CD, either).. but she rang it up in some obscure way and I ended up paying just $1.50 for a 36-exposure roll. And it was done in 15 minutes. I'll keep going back as long as they keep giving me good service.
bmattock
12-28-2005, 09:47
Fascinating information, thanks!
I just got back, coincidentally, from Walmart, where I had a trying experience of my own.
Last night, I uploaded three image files, scanned from negs, to be printed 8x10 - their cost is quite low, and I'm broke, so this is a good solution for me.
Typically, when I go in to pick up my prints, they make me sign the 'copyright' waiver which says that I am the owner of the copyright on the prints. But sometimes they can't find the form and there is much thrashing about while they try to locate one. So this time, I just downloaded the PDF form from Walmart online, printed it, signed it, and took it in with me.
The lady at the film counter took one look at it, tossed it back at me, and asked "What's this for?" I told her that usually, they ask me to fill one out when I come in - I was just trying to save time. She said "That's just for professionals." I replied that I was a professional, but again, I was just trying to save time, no big deal if she didn't want the form.
She then proceeded to pull my photos out of the envelope in front of everybody, spread them across the counter, and said "You ain't no professional."
And neither, apparently, is she.
I called Walmart when I got back to my office. They said "Sorry about that!"
I know, I know - if I didn't go to Walmart, this would not happen. But I have no friendly local photo shop, and when I lived in a town that did (Albuquerque), they were rude to me as a matter of daily business - the guy called my wife 'stupid' once because she went in to buy a filter for me and didn't know what mm size my lens was. I complained to the owner, and was told "Oh, that's just XYZ. He's like that. He doesn't mean anything by it." Well, I did a lot of mail-order business from then on - I'm just like that. Don't mean anything by it.
Thanks for sharing the Walgreens info!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
I've always read these stories about problems with developing film at the local Walgreens/Walmart/etc. and always thought 'Gee, never happens to me' , until this weekend.
Shoot 3 rolls of 12 exp. Kodak 400UC (Ultra Color) and dropped them off for 1-hour processing at the local Walmart. Came back to pick them up and the person behind the photo counter (different person than who took the film in) got my 3 envelopes and says "I sorry. We couldn't develop this film. It's 'pro' film.
'Pro' film?
Needless to say I went (only) sub-ballistic. I explained this film is C-41 process, just like all the other print film. I then reached down to the rack under the counter where I was standing and picked up a box of the 400UC and showed it to him. 'See, I bought the film right here and it says 'Process C-41'. He turned to the other person running the printer and asked if they can do this film. He shook his head yes.
The first person apologized and said they would do it right away and for no charge. I picked the film up the next day for no charge.
I never realized 'pro' film took different developing.
Brian
wlewisiii
12-28-2005, 09:55
My experiance with Walgreens is the same as Brett's. Occasionally I get a new clerk who doesn't know how to do it, but all of them know it can be done. Since it's only 2 blocks from my house, I use them for all of my C-41 135. I do get the CD - my scanner s**ks at 135 though it does MF & LF just fine :rolleyes: - I look at it as being a digital contact sheet and use it to decide if I'll get prints of anything.
William
She then proceeded to pull my photos out of the envelope in front of everybody, spread them across the counter, and said "You ain't no professional."
ROFL! (sorry) :)
{ducking, running, hiding ...} :)
Come on Bill, Albuquerque isn't that bad. At least we still have a couple old-fashion camera stores.
PS, Kurt's had to close their store on Menaul across from the mall because they couldn't find any competent people to work there. I think that's becoming a big problem for camera stores.
Brian
SteveM(PA)
12-28-2005, 10:12
I forget, does Walgreens do higher-than-normal res scanning if you ask for it? I asked about it at my CVS, where I get DO/CD, and they looked at me like I was Abraham Lincoln. Also, my local Target won't do a DO/CD, they only give out the CD as part of the "premium package." My DO/CD's have been running about $3 at CVS. I agree about the foot traffic in the store making DO/CD's worthwhile for the store. I never set foot in CVS before I took my film there, and I always pick up a couple things...nail polish...cigarillos...
Thats one of the reasons I do C-41 development myself at home. The negs come the same if not better than from minilabs. I use Tetenal kit and the whole process is not that difficult and even can be fun.
bmattock
12-28-2005, 10:22
Come on Bill, Albuquerque isn't that bad. At least we still have a couple old-fashion camera stores.
PS, Kurt's had to close their store on Menaul across from the mall because they couldn't find any competent people to work there. I think that's becoming a big problem for camera stores.
Brian
Yeah, I had trouble at Kurt's and C&D both with 'attitude' problems. Not so bad at C&D once they get to know you, but they'll ignore you until they recognize you as a 'regular'. At Kurts, the lady was very nice - you know who I mean - but the big fella with the beard was not, depending on his mood. And they just shrug it off with "yeah, that's how he is." Anyway, I do miss the place, especially now that I have nothing out here in the sticks.
But I miss The Frontier more - mmm, green chile! And Cervantes - if you haven't eaten there, you really need to.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
bmattock
12-28-2005, 10:24
ROFL! (sorry) :)
{ducking, running, hiding ...} :)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's a critic.
Sniff.
Fascinating information, thanks!
I just got back, coincidentally, from Walmart, where I had a trying experience of my own.
Last night, I uploaded three image files, scanned from negs, to be printed 8x10 - their cost is quite low, and I'm broke, so this is a good solution for me.
Typically, when I go in to pick up my prints, they make me sign the 'copyright' waiver which says that I am the owner of the copyright on the prints. But sometimes they can't find the form and there is much thrashing about while they try to locate one. So this time, I just downloaded the PDF form from Walmart online, printed it, signed it, and took it in with me.
The lady at the film counter took one look at it, tossed it back at me, and asked "What's this for?" I told her that usually, they ask me to fill one out when I come in - I was just trying to save time. She said "That's just for professionals." I replied that I was a professional, but again, I was just trying to save time, no big deal if she didn't want the form.
She then proceeded to pull my photos out of the envelope in front of everybody, spread them across the counter, and said "You ain't no professional."
And neither, apparently, is she.
I called Walmart when I got back to my office. They said "Sorry about that!"
I know, I know - if I didn't go to Walmart, this would not happen. But I have no friendly local photo shop, and when I lived in a town that did (Albuquerque), they were rude to me as a matter of daily business - the guy called my wife 'stupid' once because she went in to buy a filter for me and didn't know what mm size my lens was. I complained to the owner, and was told "Oh, that's just XYZ. He's like that. He doesn't mean anything by it." Well, I did a lot of mail-order business from then on - I'm just like that. Don't mean anything by it.
Thanks for sharing the Walgreens info!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Bill,
Whatsamatta you. You don't like a critic? The lady's obviously a moonlighting photo editor! :D
bmattock
12-28-2005, 10:38
Bill,
Whatsamatta you. You don't like a critic? The lady's obviously a moonlighting photo editor! :D
Yeah, obviously, I need to keep my day job. Well, a sure cure for a fat head, I guess. Sure fixed my little red wagon!
:bang: :bang: :bang:
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
RJBender
12-28-2005, 11:20
Fascinating information, thanks!
I just got back, coincidentally, from Walmart, where I had a trying experience of my own.
Last night, I uploaded three image files, scanned from negs, to be printed 8x10 - their cost is quite low, and I'm broke, so this is a good solution for me.
Typically, when I go in to pick up my prints, they make me sign the 'copyright' waiver which says that I am the owner of the copyright on the prints. But sometimes they can't find the form and there is much thrashing about while they try to locate one. So this time, I just downloaded the PDF form from Walmart online, printed it, signed it, and took it in with me.
The lady at the film counter took one look at it, tossed it back at me, and asked "What's this for?" I told her that usually, they ask me to fill one out when I come in - I was just trying to save time. She said "That's just for professionals." I replied that I was a professional, but again, I was just trying to save time, no big deal if she didn't want the form.
She then proceeded to pull my photos out of the envelope in front of everybody, spread them across the counter, and said "You ain't no professional."
And neither, apparently, is she.
I called Walmart when I got back to my office. They said "Sorry about that!"
I know, I know - if I didn't go to Walmart, this would not happen. But I have no friendly local photo shop, and when I lived in a town that did (Albuquerque), they were rude to me as a matter of daily business - the guy called my wife 'stupid' once because she went in to buy a filter for me and didn't know what mm size my lens was. I complained to the owner, and was told "Oh, that's just XYZ. He's like that. He doesn't mean anything by it." Well, I did a lot of mail-order business from then on - I'm just like that. Don't mean anything by it.
Thanks for sharing the Walgreens info!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Double negative. Translation: You are a professional.
What happened to Southern Hospitality? :p
bmattock
12-28-2005, 11:23
Double negative. Translation: You are a professional.
What happened to Southern Hospitality? :p
http://www.scots.com/
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
morongobill
12-28-2005, 11:25
I went to my local Walgreen's near Knotts Berry Farm the other day to get 3 5 by 7 reprints. Of course the one hour guy was out, and a young lady (mgr?) said she could take care of it, immediately removing the negative strip placed her ungloved thumb right on the one I thought was the best- ballistic doesn't begin to describe my reaction.
She got irate of course and said it was no big deal.
I called back in about 15 minutes and the one hr guy said he would clean that negative.
When I picked up the reprints they looked unsmudged so I guess he did clean the negative.
Up until that moment I was pleased with Walgreen's as they appear to clean their machine, at least. The Savon up the street always had little squigglies all over the prints and when I demanded a reprint of the roll last time, obviously they only turned up contrat to hide them.
Unbelievable but true!
Bill Mcdonald in socal
thrilled to discover rangefinders at the advanced age of 51!
RJBender
12-28-2005, 11:59
"You ain't no professional."
WWGS (What Would Gomer Say).... Gomer Pyle from Mayberry, a fictional town in North Carolina.
Gollllly! Do you reckon so, ma'am? Wait 'till I tell Andy... surprise, surprise, surprise!
:p :D :) <insert laugh track here>
At the Wal-Mart down the street from me, they have these huge cardboard bins full of DVDs of TV shows from the 50s and 60s next to the photo lab. Your post made me think of the show. Bizarre.
R.J.
Stephanie Brim
12-28-2005, 12:14
I've never had a problem with Walgreens in Ames or Fort Dodge. Some people at Wal-Marts seem to think that they can't do it, though. The 59 Minute Photo here kind of looks at me funny when I take my rolls in, already developed and in full roll strip, for scanning and CD burning. I can't wait to get myself a scanner.
sockdaddy
12-28-2005, 12:16
ah the horrors of Walgreens...
i've been getting DO-CD service from the neighborhood Walgreens for a year or two. i've never had any problems, and i've never been refused.
but, something has happened recently. they have some new staff, they must have lost their experienced techs. the last three trips i've made in to get developing and a CD have been horrendous.
my photo CD has not had any of the images' orientation corrected. so, i get about half of the digital files that are upside down (rotated 180 degrees) and the rest that were taken in "portrait" orientation are all on their sides... which means that to simply view the images i must rotate every image - which is time consuming, but not the most of my worries.
the Frontier machine must have dust and scratch removal turned off - every single image from every roll of film is absolutely covered with spots, specks, scratches, and hair. while i'm sure that some of this was introduced in my cameras, i clean them regularly, and i have been getting the same filth on rolls from different bodies / lenses. so, i'm spending 5 minutes cleaning up each image in Photoshop after the fact.
what a pain in the ass!
sockdaddy
12-28-2005, 12:17
well, i uploaded a scratchy and dirty scan that i got from Walgreens yesterday, but the re-sized version just doesn't show all the gunk!
Ugh, what horror stories. I’m not looking forward to the day it happens to me. I have tried my local Wal-Mart and Walgreens. The Walgreens developing was iffy and the scans they did were awful. The Wal-Mart developing was ok and the scans were ok but a bit too pricy. I have not tried the local Target but I may. Currently I use a family owned shop that is on my commute to work and they do a nice job. Develop and scan to cd is $4.75 w/tax. The scans are usually ~1.2meg jpeg’s. They can do hi-res that are around 4.5meg jpeg’s but to develop a roll and scan at hi-res is $9. Much too rich for my blood. I go back and have them do hi-res on only the few frames I really like.
I’ve been wishing lately that I had a film scanner. Of course then I’d probably get the cold shoulder for a develop only order. Overall this is one are that I did not miss at all when I was shooting digital. I suppose it’s time for me to learn to develop at home but the time, cost and space issues are holding that up.
I have been trying out this route since a few weeks (no prints; just negatives plus CD). At Sam's Club, this costs about $4 and at Ritz Camera about $5. The scans at Ritz seem to be larger files than those at Sam's Club. Both give very nice results. An index card is included by Ritz Camera.
By the way, the Ritz Camera in Pensacola also does this service with MF film, which is super for my needs. The scans are great from MF film, as you may suspect.
bmattock
12-28-2005, 12:35
"Develop only" is ~$2 per roll. If you shoot a lot of film, you can recoup the cost of a dedicated scanner pretty quickly. I get 22mb scans, not 1.2mb. Big difference!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
I’ve been wishing lately that I had a film scanner. Of course then I’d probably get the cold shoulder for a develop only order. Overall this is one are that I did not miss at all when I was shooting digital. I suppose it’s time for me to learn to develop at home but the time, cost and space issues are holding that up.
You might find that the shop will charge the same for DO and DO/CD (some places just "throw in" the CD). The nice thing with a scanner is you can scan your images in RAW or TIFF (i.e. no compression) format for archival purposes (you'll be wanting to use DVDs and will need a DVD burner too) and you always have the JPEG option for smaller files such as to upload to the Gallery here or put on Flikr etc.
I do not think you'll regret "scanning" you own. But remember, it won't solve the scratch/dust problem. :bang:
The mini lab that I use charges the same ($3.00) for DO or DO+CD so you know which I take. I use the CD to quickly see which frames I want to scan for prints. The cleaner the negs, the better it is when scanning but digital ICE supplied with some dedicated film scanners goes a long way solving the dirty neg issue.
Bob
Bob's right - the Digital ICE mode will take care of a lot of the dust/scratch problems at the time of the scan. What I have noticed is that by scanning in RAW (NEF in my case) or TIFF there is no forgiveness. If something's there and ICE hasn't cleaned it - it will show up.
But that's why PS gives us the bandaid! ;)
derevaun
12-28-2005, 12:57
I usually get the DO/CD at Ritz/Kits/Wolf, because they hire college students with photo experience so I've never had a point to argue with them. That and I personally don't care for Walgreens' and Walmart's business practices. For develop only I go to the college, which has a C-41 machine for some reason. They even do cross processing.
FWIW, the tech at Target once told me they can't do Kodak 400UC. Company policy, she said, something about the chemistry. It didn't sound right to me, but I didn't argue about it, and she's friendly and polite when I bring in pinhole images that confuse their machine, e.g. Chances are the policy has changed, but there's no shortage of places that will process the UC.
bmattock
12-28-2005, 13:20
You might find that the shop will charge the same for DO and DO/CD (some places just "throw in" the CD).
I have not found that to be the case.
The nice thing with a scanner is you can scan your images in RAW or TIFF (i.e. no compression) format for archival purposes (you'll be wanting to use DVDs and will need a DVD burner too) and you always have the JPEG option for smaller files such as to upload to the Gallery here or put on Flikr etc.
Yes, I totally agree with the above.
I do not think you'll regret "scanning" you own. But remember, it won't solve the scratch/dust problem. :bang:
I feel that it goes a long way towards solving the scratch/dust problem when trying to scan film that has been previously scanned/enlarged by the shops. Pro or one-hour, I routinely got back horribly scratched and filthy negs when I had prints made or scans done. I feel strongly that it is due to the actual mechanics of scanning/printing - that is, the film path is doing the scratching and is horribly dirty, etc.
By having my one-hour lab just process, cut, and sleeve - no prints, no scans, I have cut down very much on the rate of problems I have to later try to fix with The Gimp. My scanner does not have ICE, so I have to rely on myself to get rid of scratches and dust/dirt.
The difference, for me, was so 'night and day' that I have repeatedly urged others to JUST TRY IT. Some have, some have not. Some have argued long and hard with me about how that could not possibly be true, but refuse to try it themselves, so how the heck would they know?
Just try it. Process only, no scan, no print. Cut and sleeve. Then scan it yourself. Sometimes I still have problems, but mostly, I get nice clean scans and very few scratches or dirt/dust problems. Really big visible difference.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
FWIW...
It may be a bit much to expect service/information from a minimum wage counter person especially when you "challange" them with something out of the norm. Most of us don't do our own C-41 developing and have to use a service. Personally, I have found a pro service here in Seattle to develope only my C-41 film. Yes, I pay more....but I deal with photo pro's and they understand what I want and deliver it. And that is worth the premium to me. I also feel good about supporting a photo pro business.
Bob
"Develop only" is ~$2 per roll. If you shoot a lot of film, you can recoup the cost of a dedicated scanner pretty quickly. I get 22mb scans, not 1.2mb. Big difference!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
22mb? You must mean tiff files. If I save my hi-res jpg scans to tiff they are around 18-20mb.
So yeah, I need a dedicated scanner. I know there was a thread around these parts on flatbed vs film and I'll go research it but which do you use? What will a film scanner run me?
Bob's right - the Digital ICE mode will take care of a lot of the dust/scratch problems at the time of the scan. What I have noticed is that by scanning in RAW (NEF in my case) or TIFF there is no forgiveness. If something's there and ICE hasn't cleaned it - it will show up.
But that's why PS gives us the bandaid! ;)
Oh yeah, i'm an abuser of the clone stamp tool. :)
JoeFriday
12-28-2005, 14:34
Scott.. a Dual Scan IV can be found for roughly $200.. otherwise you're looking at about $400-600 (my Coolscan V was on the high end of that range)
you could also get a flatbed with film capabilities.. those range anywhere from $100 to $400 with many options.. the dedicated film scanner will give you visibly better scans, but the flatbeds will also scan MF or 4x5.. probably not something you have much need for, tho
I'm planning to buy a Canoscan 9950F in the next month or two to complement my Coolscan once I pick up a medium format camera.. the best of both worlds, ya know!
brightsky
12-28-2005, 15:05
Ditto, ditto, ditto. I found myself cringing and nodding affirmatively after reading most of these posts.
My local Walgreens development is spotty and their scanning is so poor I don't bother with CD's any longer. I may get only one or two usable files from an entire roll. The prints, some of which I've had enlarged, look just fine. The photo lab staff turnover seems high, which probably accounts for some of the problems.
One of the local "pro" labs charges $3 to develop only. (35mm) Burning a CD with hi-res JPGs is an additional $7, and the scans are generally not much better than those from Walgreens.
A second photo lab's pricing is similar, but they provide an extra service - spotting and scratching the negatives. :bang:
I have been very angry and upset about it for quite some time until I recently decided my New Years resolution would be purchasing a dedicated film scanner. Now I feel better. :cool:
I figure I can easily reproduce the lousy results, but with a little education and practice, get just what I want and it will be less expensive since I have multiple formats.
bmattock
12-28-2005, 15:23
22mb? You must mean tiff files. If I save my hi-res jpg scans to tiff they are around 18-20mb.
So yeah, I need a dedicated scanner. I know there was a thread around these parts on flatbed vs film and I'll go research it but which do you use? What will a film scanner run me?
Yes, TIF files, sorry. I resize and save as JPG for the web, but edit as TIF or native GIMP XCF format if I want to save my layers, etc.
I have both a Minolta Scan Dual IV and an old Epson PHOTO Perfection 2400 with the optional 4x5 transparency adapter unit. I use the SD IV for 35mm, the flatbed for everything else. SD IV cost me just over $300, but now they're something like $200 and change. The flatbed is antique - much better available now and no need for an optional negative scanning adapter. Maybe another $200 to $300, depending on how fancy you want.
My 6x9 scans on my 2400 bpi Epson are something like 7700 pixels on the long edge. Kinda big. I can make REALLY LARGE prints, or crop like mad. The 35mm is something like 4400 on the long side, as I recall.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Austintatious
12-28-2005, 19:19
FWIW, I just got an Epson Perfection 3170 flat bed from epson.com. Its a referb with a one year warranty. Cost $79.95 with free shipping ! Does slides, film and mf. Great reviews on it also.
Charles
I have not found that to be the case.
Yes, I totally agree with the above.
I feel that it goes a long way towards solving the scratch/dust problem when trying to scan film that has been previously scanned/enlarged by the shops. Pro or one-hour, I routinely got back horribly scratched and filthy negs when I had prints made or scans done. I feel strongly that it is due to the actual mechanics of scanning/printing - that is, the film path is doing the scratching and is horribly dirty, etc.
By having my one-hour lab just process, cut, and sleeve - no prints, no scans, I have cut down very much on the rate of problems I have to later try to fix with The Gimp. My scanner does not have ICE, so I have to rely on myself to get rid of scratches and dust/dirt.
The difference, for me, was so 'night and day' that I have repeatedly urged others to JUST TRY IT. Some have, some have not. Some have argued long and hard with me about how that could not possibly be true, but refuse to try it themselves, so how the heck would they know?
Just try it. Process only, no scan, no print. Cut and sleeve. Then scan it yourself. Sometimes I still have problems, but mostly, I get nice clean scans and very few scratches or dirt/dust problems. Really big visible difference.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Bill,
Good advice. I have tried the just develop no scan or even make an index sheet once. I'll need to do it a few times to get enough "data points" to determine with my lab whether it really does cut down on the scratches and dust.
From the responses here - this scratch/dirt problem seems to be a pretty wide spread problem. Not enough of a hassle (given ICE and PS) to get me to develop my own - but that option is getting a little more tempting.
BTW: What is GIMP?
George
For those who remember the story, I had a friend who had Walgreens refuse to do develop-only/CD without prints. I wrote about that last September. I've had countless Walgreens do DO-CD over the past year or so and never had them refuse ...
... until this morning. Of all places, again, Las Vegas.
As a Vegas local, I apologize for the crappy service you got! Sheesh. Which Walgreens were you at?
Nikki
bmattock
12-28-2005, 20:13
Bill,
Good advice. I have tried the just develop no scan or even make an index sheet once. I'll need to do it a few times to get enough "data points" to determine with my lab whether it really does cut down on the scratches and dust.
From the responses here - this scratch/dirt problem seems to be a pretty wide spread problem. Not enough of a hassle (given ICE and PS) to get me to develop my own - but that option is getting a little more tempting.
BTW: What is GIMP?
George
I run Linux, not Windows or Mac. There is no Photoshop for me. I run GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program), a free PS clone. Maybe a bit more powerful than the oldest PS Elements, less than full on PS. But good enough for my use.
http://www.gimp.org
I think the scratch problem is only becoming obvious since people starting doing high-end scans. For optical enlargements, most scratches/dust I've seen would not be a really big problem. But a scanner chokes on it.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
I think the scratch problem is only becoming obvious since people starting doing high-end scans. For optical enlargements, most scratches/dust I've seen would not be a really big problem. But a scanner chokes on it.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Yes, high-end scans are certainly part of the explanation. When I got my Nikonscan 5000 I "defaulted" to using RAW (actually Nikon's version which is NEF) or TIFF because that's the mode I shoot in my D-70 (yes, I also play on the darkest of dark sides! :D ).
I did this because my first purpose in getting the scanner was to digitize in archival quality some 30 years worth of mounted slides.
These slides are ICEd but anyway scan very clean. Not so with current B&W negs where I see many scratches and dirt. So I am guessing that the quality of processing today leaves much to be desired. By that, I mean the quality of the people doing the processing.
Now it is true that with my slides I almost exclusively used Kodak mailers for processing. And I'm guessing that at least way back when, the Kodak processors took some pride in their product and "handled with care". I don't think the minimum wage clerk a Walgreens, or some one-hour photo store really "gives a damn".
And they probably assume that if all I ask for are prints or a low-res JPEG CD I won't notice the scratches etc. Oh well, as some here noted, they get film processed for $2. Proves the old saying - you get what you pay for.
G'night,
George
bmattock
12-29-2005, 01:53
And they probably assume that if all I ask for are prints or a low-res JPEG CD I won't notice the scratches etc. Oh well, as some here noted, they get film processed for $2. Proves the old saying - you get what you pay for.
G'night,
George
George,
I would not bother with the $2 processing at a local 1-hour place, but I previously did a lot of traveling for a living, which gave me the opportunity to visit and use a lot of very famous pro labs from time to time. I had the exact same trouble with every single one of them. At Albuquerque color lab, I was friends with the owner, and she was quite upset that this was happening - I'd drop off 10 rolls of film and pay nearly $200 for prints and hi-rez scans (which of course were not so hi-rez compared to what I can do myself), and they'd be scratched to hell and gone, despite gloves, well-trained employees, and an owner who obviously cared.
I used to post messages on Usenet - desperate to fix the problem - and the old hands there would suggest one pet lab after another - try xyz lab, they'd say. They never let me down. I'd try them, and yes, scratches and dust like crazy, plus a very big bill.
I think a lot of the problem came down to perception. If all you do is shoot and have your film processed and printed at 4x6, with a cd that you maybe review online a bit, you might not be very critcal. It 'looks good' to you. So you think highly of your expensive pet pro lab and recommend it. But scan at 3200 bpi or higher, and try to crop and still be able to print at say 11x14, and suddenly what looked great printed 4x6 is not so hot anymore. Look at it 1:1 in PS or whatever, and shriek with dismay.
Maybe I'm a perfectionist. I didn't think so, but OK, whatever. I found through a LOT of trial and error (mostly error) that it did not matter what I paid, it did not matter what lab I used - if I got prints and scans, I got scratches - period - 100% of the time, always.
It was pure dumb luck that led me to ask if a one-hour place could just process, cut, and sleeve the negs. They did. I was shocked at home much less it cost, and even more shocked when I got the negs home and scanned them. What a difference.
I still have moments when I am thoroughly disgusted with my C41 negs even with processing only - the inattention to detail is obvious, with fingerprints, etc - the negs look like they were dragged through a mud puddle and then pulled behind a truck down a country road. It makes me furious. BUT - 90% or more of the time, my negs are nice and clean - so clean it makes scanning a joy instead of tedium.
My negs are cleanest when I DO THEM MYSELF - but I don't do my own C41, just my own B&W. This for me, confirms my belief - less handling equals less scratching. Having only processing done - no prints, no scanning - means less handling. One hour shop or pro lab does not seem to make a difference to my experience.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Hey Bill,
Agreed.
I really like the quote in the tag line - and the irony of the font size and color you chose to emphasize the point! ;)
bmattock
12-29-2005, 06:37
Hey Bill,
Agreed.
I really like the quote in the tag line - and the irony of the font size and color you chose to emphasize the point! ;)
Huxley was a rather clever chap, don't you think? I quite enjoy reading him - even more so since I've left "Brave New World" and gone on to some of his other works. Too clever by half, is the term I think some use to describe brilliance mixed with sarcasm of this sort.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
RJBender
12-29-2005, 13:48
FWIW, I just got an Epson Perfection 3170 flat bed from epson.com. Its a referb with a one year warranty. Cost $79.95 with free shipping ! Does slides, film and mf. Great reviews on it also.
Charles
Was the software included?
R.J.
It was pure dumb luck that led me to ask if a one-hour place could just process, cut, and sleeve the negs. They did. I was shocked at home much less it cost, and even more shocked when I got the negs home and scanned them. What a difference. Bill Mattocks
Bill, none of the local stores such as Walgreens, Eckerts etc. will do negatives only and I really don't feel like arguing with Walgreen's manager that it CAN be done. If they want the profit difference between just negatives and prints, they get zero profit from me.
I use Coke's Camera in Macon, GA, and they process C-41 negatives only for $1.95 per 24 exposure roll. They put them in a continuous plastic sleeve that I can cut into strips of six and the negatives are as clean as anyone could want. I scan at either 3200 or 4800 dpi and if I have to touch up anything, it's usually from dust on the glass of my flatbed scanner. Coke's is an old-time full service camera store that I really enjoy visiting. I give them as much business as I can.
Walker
bmattock
12-29-2005, 14:20
Bill, none of the local stores such as Walgreens, Eckerts etc. will do negatives only and I really don't feel like arguing with Walgreen's manager that it CAN be done. If they want the profit difference between just negatives and prints, they get zero profit from me.
I use Coke's Camera in Macon, GA, and they process C-41 negatives only for $1.95 per 24 exposure roll. They put them in a continuous plastic sleeve that I can cut into strips of six and the negatives are as clean as anyone could want. I scan at either 3200 or 4800 dpi and if I have to touch up anything, it's usually from dust on the glass of my flatbed scanner. Coke's is an old-time full service camera store that I really enjoy visiting. I give them as much business as I can.
Walker
Sounds like a great deal - wish I had something like that near me! No camera store at all...sigh.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Rob Holland
12-29-2005, 14:50
For those that don't have access to low-priced, decent processing I would like to suggest Clark Color Labs. (www.clarkcolor.com). They offer C41 with 3.5X5 prints for $3.28 a roll and that includes postage both ways. They also offer E-6 and B&W at reasonable prices. Mail box to mail box is usually 7-10 days for me.
I've used them off and on for many, many years and have never had a problem with their work or service. Certainly not a pro lab but in my experience, just as good as most 1-hour places. I've sent them 100's and 100's of rolls over the past 30 years and have never noticed a scratched neg. The print quality is good for "normal" pictures, but sometimes have problems with odd colors. My Alaska "blue ice" shots gave their machines trouble. YMMV.
I'm not endorsing Clark, only sharing my experience with them as a reliable, convenient and affordable option. The E-6 and B&W service is buried in the price list and is not listed on the mailers.
Later,
Rob
bmattock
12-29-2005, 14:59
Thanks, Rob. Hey, you're in Cary, eh? You know we have a lot of RFF'ers in NC. We've even managed a get-together once. Welcome to RFF!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Rob Holland
12-29-2005, 15:08
Yeah, I'm just up the road from you. I've noticed a surprisingly large number of NC RF's. I've been meaning to PM you to see if you will show me some of your local photo haunts.
I got bit by the FSU bug earlier this year. I now have a Fed 1, Fed 2, Fed 3 and Zorki 3m.
Let me know about the next gathering. I'd love to join.
Later,
Rob
FWIW, I just got an Epson Perfection 3170 flat bed from epson.com. Its a referb with a one year warranty. Cost $79.95 with free shipping ! Does slides, film and mf. Great reviews on it also.
Charles
Now this is to my liking. I need a MF scanner, and at this price it is a steal. Isn't it?
bmattock
12-29-2005, 16:41
Now this is to my liking. I need a MF scanner, and at this price it is a steal. Isn't it?
Yes, it sounds terrific! I have a perfectly good 2400, but I wish I had the money right now for this. Sigh.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Bill, none of the local stores such as Walgreens, Eckerts etc. will do negatives only and I really don't feel like arguing with Walgreen's manager that it CAN be done. If they want the profit difference between just negatives and prints, they get zero profit from me.
I think there's kind of a misunderstaning in this thread as to what actually happened. I didn't have to argue with a Walgreens manager at all. The manager knew what I wanted immediately, and actually went out of his way to get them done while I waited (and yes, browsed and bought other stuff in the process). It was a win-win for both of us. :)
There was, however, a front-line employee who I guess didn't know what the real policy was and didn't really care. My guess is that she's a part timer, perhaps rotating from store to store, and doesn't really care that much for her job or the customers. You see this attitude all the time.
I have a feeling the way that this sporadic refusal to do a DO-CD started was that the Powers That Be for Walgreens, Walmart, Target' and others intended for such things as CDs or photos on line to be an add-on, an upsell, something in addition to, and not in lieu of the regular hardcopy prints.
When Walmart came out with their photos on line a few years ago, it was most definitely an add-on to prints on their send-out second day processing. In fact, photos on line were not available with the 3" single prints, only with 4" single prints and above. This was a good service until about a year ago when they quit letting you download a whole roll hi-res as a big zip file. Even though the prints were mandatory, it was still cheaper than our local indie lab charged for a DO-CD.
Nowadays, Walmart (at least here) will do a DO-CD and I don't even know if they offer any kind of a photos on line anymore.
Target' was the only one around here who seemed to have a DO-CD as a standard service. The one store here used to be great, but when one guy quit, the consistency went bibi and they started scratching negatives. I even blamed the power-rewind on the little Olympus for this until one roll from the Pentax came back the same way. :(
I think the big problem with the one hour labs is inconsistency, both in technical quality and in attitude. Lately I've found that yes, Walgreens (the ones with the newer Fuji Frontier machines at least) gives very consistently good results. Walmart does seem to usually do a good job on a DO-CD. I blamed them for a roll with a streak which came off with H2O, but I'm wondering if it was something in the light trap of the cartridge that actually did it. I always use the film canisters now for the exposed film.
We as serious amateur photographers are a bit more picky and yes, demanding than the casual snapshooters, which are the usual customers of the mini-labs. Some managers and employees are happy to give us a little bit more attention, but others just care about putting in their hours or making their store's numbers come out pretty for the current period.
Oh well, so it goes ... :)
bmattock
12-29-2005, 18:56
Yes, I used to get in discussions with store managers about how my camera was the culprit. Yes, my camera put a thumbprint in the middle of frame 12. Bad old camera.
No, I think I do understand the situation. Even now - RFF'ers will say hey, I get prints all time, I don't see no stinking scratches! Right - they won't show up on a 4x6 print. Even a store scan may be insufficient to show them (although my shots from my trip to Brazil were RUINED by a very famous NYC pro lab when they gave me the 'hi-rez' scan job. LIke someone else mentioned, I got shots upside down, colors gone wonky, thumbprints, dust, hair embedded in the emulsion, diagonal scratches, emulsion flaking, etc. No, it did not show in the 4x6 prints. But when I tried to scan the negs with my (at the time) SD III, they made me want to cry. I would spend hours on a single frame, just to get disgusted and throw it away. I was so angry.
And I'd post query after query online - and one pro photog after another would refer me to HIS pet lab where they NEVER make mistakes like that. These scalawags and pegleg petes had me convinced that I was just not going to the RIGHT pro lab.
Bull-freaking-hmph. I am not a perfectionist - far from it. But every roll of film I ever had processed where they also did prints and scans were absolutely unusable for me to scan myself - ruined beyond all hope of salvage. From any lab - pro and one-hour. Didn't matter.
I talked to store managers. I showed them blowups of the damage. They'd apologize, refund my money (like that helped with the shot gone), personally supervise - it did not matter.
I finally twigged to it - the scratches were not something that their machines had ever been designed to avoid. Because they don't cause problems under the older analog conditions. Even on an 8x10 print - if you're using an optical enlarger, it spreads out the light - scratches disappear as if you had a scratch on the lens of your flashlight and shined it on the wall. But scanning at true hi rez is a different story. You see every wart, every blemish. And when you print enlargements, you'll see them there too, unless you clean them up by hand or via some software package.
It was not the employees (well sometimes it was, like thumbprints and hairs) but it was the machines. They can't help scratching the negs. They're machines, the drag the film to and fro inside the guts of that giant beast. The scanner device is usually sitting on top of the machine that processes the film. The technician drags it across a hard painted metal surface to scan each frame - damaged!
It also was not the well-meaning advice I got from pro photogs - they were hardly into the digital scanning age themselves - they didn't 'see' scratches in their prints, so that means there aren't any. Believe me, they're there.
Process only is the only thing that has kept me from throwing my cameras in the trash in disgust. That and processing my own B&W, which proved to me that hand processing does NOT produce those kind of scratches - it comes from the machines.
Others can argue - I know what I know. If no one else wants to try it, so be it. I have a solution that works for me, and I enjoy spreading the news.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
She then proceeded to pull my photos out of the envelope in front of everybody, spread them across the counter, and said "You ain't no professional."
And neither, apparently, is she.
I called Walmart when I got back to my office. They said "Sorry about that!"
Did she hurt your feelings? I'd kill to hear what that call to walmart was like..
bmattock
12-30-2005, 06:33
Did she hurt your feelings? I'd kill to hear what that call to walmart was like..
Hurt my feelings? Yes, in a way - I was embarrassed.
The local Walmart photo shop manager called me this morning at work. Turns out, she and I are both from Albuquerque. We had a nice chat, and she apologized for the behavior of her employee and said it would not happen again. We had a long chat about why Walmart asks for the 'Copryright Release' form sometimes, and sometimes not. She said she would educate her employees that when a customer takes the time to fill it out ahead of time and bring it in with them, they should just take it - no need to make rude comments, regardless of what they think of the 'professional' status of the photographer.
I was pleased - it seemed we made a friendly connection, and she was kind and listened and told me precisely how she had handled it with her employee to make sure it didn't happen again. That's all I wanted - someone to listen and apologize and not do the corporate "We're sorry you were disappointed. Have a nice day!" in a bored tone of voice.
So, I'm pleased. Didn't expect that good of a response from Walmart. I'm satisfied.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
This thread is an example of why RFF is a great photo site. Just by reading all these posts I've learned about useful free photo software (Gimp), a good mail-order color lab (Clark Color) and a terrific deal on a nice flatbed scanner (the Epson 3170). Thank you all for the information! :angel:
I've got some cash saved up, maybe I'll buy myself a 3170 this weekend. If it's as good as everyone says then I can't lose at under $100. I've got boxes full of old prints that I'd like to scan, and the capability to do MF negs will be nice for the rolls shot with my Holga.
BTW, I just dropped of a 135 roll at my local CVS yesterday and had no problems with DO/CD service, although the photo clerks don't seem overly enthusiastic about promoting it. The developing at CVS is fine but the scans are just so-so. When I worked in downtown Boston I used to have my film processed and printed at Old Towne Camera. They did 24 4x6 prints including a low-res (1600x1200)photo CD for $10.
Happy New Year.
P.S. - love the avatar, ywenz. Mayor Adam West is a man that loves his taffy.
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