View Full Version : ZEISS 531/2 Problems to solve
Back with a new zeiss struggling... :bang:
ZEISS IKON SUPER IKONTA II WITH RANGEFINDER and TESSAR JENA 105mm f:3,8 in COMPUR RAPID SHUTTER (B,1,2,5,10,25,50,100,200,400 and Timer delay)
Well, I have to completely remove the lens, the shutter up to the shutter blades to fix then, clean the lenses for fungus...
The rangefinder has to be recalebrated, because the precedent owner tried to do it just did worsen the situation...
So, I need a complete guide to do that cause it seems a bit more complicated than a Prontor...
Many thanks to my future saviors...
you are in a bind here
David Richert had an excellent write up:
Probably Rick Oleson's site maybe of help?
This site may also help http://www.certo6.com/services.html . Mike Kovacs, a member here, should also be able to help. I'm sure he will be along shortly. It looks like a big job especially the rangefinder bit. Hope it all works out as the results from this camera are worth the effort.
i don't know about the rangefinder, but the rest: You can remove the whole shutter/lens assembly befinning from behind/inside, unscrewing a retaining ring on the inside of the shutter. If you do this, you might find a (paper?) shim between the shutter and the fold-out front that holds the whole thing; this is introduced for correct focusing so don't forget to put it back when finished.
The shutter blades are again reachable from the backside of the shutter (at least it was the case with a synchro compur and a compur rapid i've opened up) without completely disassembling the shutter itself.
When removing the front lens group, the one that rotates while focusing, try to mark it with a soft tip pen or such where it comes apart, to make sure you get it back correctly.
Finally, i guess this is an uncoated lens. Still, might be that fungus is so old it's etched in the glass and cannot be completely cleaned, leaving fine marks. If it's not too dense, you still can end up with a good working tessar.
The rangefinder assembly uses two rotating wedge prisms. They mesh with gears that eventually are coupled to the front element.
There are a myriad of things that could be wrong, including missing gears, although the most likely problem is that the wedge prisms are installed incorrectly.
They should be installed with gears inward and smooth edges on the outside. However, there is a definite front and rear prism. They are not interchangeable. I believe the deeper prism is the rear prism, although it's been a few months since I last worked on one of these, so I could be mistaken.
Basically, you need to put the prism back into the holder and slowly rotate the front and back individually until the image in the rangefinder is in alignment. Then you need to reassemble and lens and coupling gear that will be linked to the front element.
This work should take you maybe 15 minutes to an hour, depending on how close you are when you start.
I want to add that when adjusting the wedge prisms, it's helpful to remove the brass plate, remove one of the gears and then replace the brass plate. Or simply loosen the screws on the brass plate (don't lose them -- they're tiny).
The idea is to allow the two wedge prisms to be rotated independently of each other.
It's not overly complicated, and it's one of those adjustments that's easier to show than explain.
I haven't been thru this particular model but survived the Moskva-5 and 532/16 without problems.
The shutter is the hardest part in terms of skills. It takes some guts to tear a shutter all the way down the first time. I have an article hosted here - http://www.davidrichert.com/zeiss_521_16_compur_rapid_shutter.htm
The rangefinder rotating wedges potentially the most frustrating. If the moving image doesn't move straight horizontally, you have to pick a wedge (the front one) and rotate it with the cover off one tooth at a time, reassemble, try, ......
Viewfinder should be a snap on the 531/2. Separate viewfinder and rangefinder, correct?
Anyway, Zeissfan did a great job with the one he showed me.
I just visited on a whim - I have nearly given-up on this forum in light of all the Japanese Zeiss Ikon talk ;)
OK... What about the diaphragm blades... How do you put them back together ?
With lotsa patience, and you gotta do it when the diaphragm is wide open, so that they don't fall into the hole - when closed down, since they are not supported on the top, they will flip over and fall in the hole.
Or, you can put something below that protrudes in the shutter hole and supports the blades from the bottom, put them in one by one, and put the top on it.
I have never had a shutter yet that needed the diaphragm blades taken apart - good luck if you opened it!
One tip I've been told is to hold them with a small dab of grease, then flush clean the entire assembly thoroughly once its all together.
I recently tackled a prewar Zeiss Contax RF 85/4 Triotar lens with 20, count'em 20 diaphragm blades! What an incredible piece of workmanship that lens is.
Yeaaa... I became an expert at putting back the diaphragm blades !!
Took me a lot of patience to understand how to do it properly. I am qoing to do a "tutorial" on the subject... Cause my method is flawless... !
What would you lube the shutter and diaphragm blades ?
I used synthetic grease to lube the mechanics of the lens, but I don't find it really appropriate...
One more thing, I would like to flush the shutter mecanism in a cleaning solution... Would it be enough to flush it in Naphta ? Or do you have a "miracle" liquid for this task ?
The blades must run dry - no lube.
Since you have the shutter already split in two, soak the front half in naptha. I use gun oil on the pallet and star gear (pindrop on each shaft), and a thin coat of synthetic bicycle grease where the speed ring rubs the cover and cocking ring.
The pallet ?
The start gear ?
The speed ring ?
The cocking ring ?
what does it look like ?
Sorry I'm french, I lack some of the specialized vocabulary...
And I don't really know how to identify the different parts of the mechanism.
Gun oil : it's liquid oil ?
The synthetic grease I have becomes dark with time... Is it normal ?
PS: by the way, you were talking about japanese sites or forums... Can you tell me the adresses ?
Pallet and star gear are what causes the delay in the slow speeds mechanism. You will see a gear with large teeth (star gear) and the pallet which oscillates back and forth against this gear. You want to find a light, clear oil that you can apply by dipping a pin into the oil, touching the pin to the shafts of these two pieces, then wiping any excess. If it runs smooth without oil, do not oil it.
I don't know about France but in Canada I can buy gun oil at my local hardware store (they don't sell guns there but have ammunition and cleaning supplies). I use the Remington brand "Rem Oil". Nye oil is a fancier one to try. There are all sorts of expensive watch oils that would also work.
Cocking ring is the rotating piece with the spring that is used to tension the shutter. The speed ring is the one with the cutouts milled from it that engages the pallet arm and speed selector on the slow speeds. Its the one you actually are turning when you change speeds. Basically you just want to lightly grease the speed ring so its not rubbing metal on metal. I use "Schwinn" synthetic bicycle grease which is very impervious to breakdown. I don't think this becomes dark with time.
Scwhinn Max Performance Bicycle Grease
Synthetic Formula Totally Repels Water
Extends Bearings Life
Lasts Longer than Petroleum Based Grease
This grease is a synthetic grease... But mine doesn't seem to be as good...
REMINGTON REM-OIL LIQUID
Size: 1 oz / Ct: 12
With Teflon for long-lasting lubrication and rust protection.
So it's Teflon based lubricant... Supposed to be harmless to plastic parts... And water resistant...
I think I can't find these lubricants in France, but probably I can find equivalents...
Do you have a specialist opinion on the "why" you use theses particular lubricants ?
(by the way, it's "bonne chance" ;) Chance is female in french, so it's "bonne" instead of "bon")
MERCI BEAUCOUP !! :)
my Rem Oil cost me more like $5 (Canadian bucks). Will trade for Fois Gras :)
Ok, I'll send for 5$ of foie gras to Canada...
Hope that you are alone for christmas or that you like minimalist fooding... ;)
use the sewing machine oil, Singer brand is the best
for grease, try getting a hold of high vacccuumm grease, in a chemical lab supply
What about high vacuum grease ?
What quality does it have ? What's its texture ?
I'm desperate to find a correct grease !
I tried degrip oil teflon based grease, and they just stuck the mechanism ! I had to clean the whole shutter !!!
Yep teflon oil is not the best.... I had that problem before.
High Vaccuum Grease is Silicon based I believe.
High vacuum grease (I use Dow-Corning) is synthetic, very thick, and will not migrate or separate even under ridiculously harsh conditions (200C under vacuum). I find its a little too viscous for all applications - I use Schwinn Synthetic grease meant for packing bearings on bicycles.
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