View Full Version : Rodinal lovers read this...
What is going on?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7565263838&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
back alley
11-27-2005, 16:34
panic in the streets!
i just bought a big bottle of rodinal, so far my photo store seems to still have some in stock.
joe
bmattock
11-27-2005, 16:42
Oh, for crying out loud.
Rodinal is a well-known formula. The patent ran out decades ago. Lots of companies make it. In fact, there were several formulations - so you just have to pick the 'Rodinal' that matches the decade you liked the best. The various formulae for different versions of Rodinal are published all over the net - and the raw chemicals are easily available as well.
Of all the things that Agfa made that are not replaceable, Rodinal ain't one of them.
David b, I realize you're just reporting this, so my ire is not directed at you, believe me. But I've read umpty ump threads on "Rodinal Saved!" and "Rodinal Lost!" and "Rodinal Gave Birth to An Amazing Bigfoot Child!" over the past weeks that I'm about to throw up. Who gives a flip? Rodinal, as a dev agent, is very available - just with a couple of different names.
So what's the big deal?
Chicken Little, indeed.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Rodinal from Agfa is Ghandi unless the purchaser of the photo processing end of Agfa Photo restarts production.
bmattock
11-27-2005, 16:45
Rodinal from Agfa is Ghandi unless the purchaser of the photo processing end of Agfa Photo restarts production.
Why does it have to be from Agfa? Something special about German water? The chemicals are well available elsewhere, as is the recipe. I believe I'll have another Marlon.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Calbe R09 would work just as well, but the panic has set in and someone on eBay knew to stock up on the brand with the red rhombus. I saw the same steal of a deal after APX 25 was discontinued.
bmattock
11-27-2005, 16:55
Calbe R09 would work just as well, but the panic has set in and someone on eBay knew to stock up on the brand with the red rhombus. I saw the same steal of a deal after APX 25 was discontinued.
The difference is that there isn't any clone APX 25 out there. Similar, maybe, but no one running the same process on the same machinery to make the same film. Chemistry, though - that's a direct copy for crying out loud.
Sombody smack these bozos, they're making me dizzy with all this running about.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Gabriel M.A.
11-27-2005, 16:56
Good thing I got my bottles at $11 ea.
Gabriel M.A.
11-27-2005, 16:59
I'll sell mine for only $80 ea. for the unlucky ones who don't win the auction, though... :rolleyes:
Well, are all the substitutes/clones really the same? There have been discussions about that over on APUG, and quite frankly unless I really wanted to immerse myself in them, I'd just as soon stock up on "the real thing" and be done with it. I just received 8x 4 oz. bottles from Freestyle at what seems to be a decent price.
Also over on APUG there is a thread about Rollei 25 as an APX 25 replacement/substitute. But I agree, the loss of APX 25 is greater than that of Rodinal.
Earl
Oh, for crying out loud. <Snip> Chicken Little, indeed. Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
I'll echo Bill; fer cryin' out LOUD! Anyone willing to pay that kind of money for Rodinal shouldn't be allowed to play with sharp objects. Maybe there's a full moon out tonight or something...... I dunno, but it's sheer lunacy to lose all sense of proportion like that.
JandB Photo sell R09 very reasonably and by the time my 500ml bottle is used up I expect other brands to have joined it on the shelf.
Walker
bmattock
11-27-2005, 17:12
Well, are all the substitutes/clones really the same? There have been discussions about that over on APUG, and quite frankly unless I really wanted to immerse myself in them, I'd just as soon stock up on "the real thing" and be done with it. I just received 8x 4 oz. bottles from Freestyle at what seems to be a decent price.
Also over on APUG there is a thread about Rollei 25 as an APX 25 replacement/substitute. But I agree, the loss of APX 25 is greater than that of Rodinal.
Earl
Earl,
If the formula used is correct, then yes, they're really the same. Some say that modern-day Rodinal is NOT the same stuff that was published long ago and is now being made elsewhere - however the MSDS that Agfa published does NOT indicate that, and it would be a violation of US federal law to import it here with a false/misleading MSDS.
Is it 'exactly' the same? No, it does not come with an Agfa logo on the bottle.
One can 'stock up' on Rodinal, but to what end? How much will you use in your lifetime? Can you stock that much?
Frankly, I can report that this brouhaha has gotten me interested in taking a more active hand in my chemistry - I may compound my own. I've purchased about half-a-dozen old old books on eBoy with lots of formulae printed in them. I am currently sorting them out with an eye towards making my own. This ain't rocket science here - more like a cake recipe
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
IIRC, the formula's in "The Darkroom Cookbook."
bmattock
11-27-2005, 17:24
IIRC, the formula's in "The Darkroom Cookbook."
Yes, Stephen Anchell's work. However, the formulae are also available in various 'Photography of Chemistry' type books dating from the early 1900's up to the 1940's, when photographers stopped having to understand even the first thing about a benzene ring. I enjoy the hard work of trying to wrap my mind around basic chemical undstanding. But once you have the formula, that's just making soup on the stove, is all.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Bill: OK, 'cept for the label, eh? ;)
I'm not sure how much I can/should stock up or use. At the dilutions I commonly use, combined with the shelf life of the stock solution, what I have in house now should keep me going for quite some time. (And there's no guarantee of my shelf life anyway!)
The only photo chemical I'm inclined to mix up myself is Amidol for print processing. I have no aversion to mixing my own soups (I minored in chemistry and have mixed other photo chemicals in the past), it's just that I'd rather take the more "relaxed" approach. I.e., I'm lazy. If it came down to having to mix my own, I'd do it, of course.
I look forward to your results in mixology.
Earl
Interesting, Bill. Are the chemicals readily avaiable, in reasonably small quantities?
From various reading I've done, there are some differences between Rodinal and Rodinal-like forumulae that are based on an older version of Rodinal. Also, from what I've read, the differences are so minor that it's academic.
APX25 is a loss. There is evidently some thought being given at Ilford about introducing a new Delta 25 in the near future. That could be interesting.
Gene
Benjamin Marks
11-27-2005, 17:32
Bill: between the "nude" thread and this one, I'm bustin out laughing tonight. Please, have mercy, any more horse sense and I'll need a hernia truss.
Folks: for those who are gun-shy about mixing their own chems: The Photographer's Formulary has ready-made versions of so many developers, you'd lose your mind before you could try, let alone master, them all: http://www.photoformulary.com.
FWIW, they also sell the componants. Anyone with a spare set of measuring spoons can mix their own Rodinol, or D-76, or Beer's or D-73 or XTOL etc. etc. It's the disappearance of film that should wake you in a cold sweat, not these brand-name developers.
Ben Marks
hehe..... $11.50 CDN locally - and they've got a stockpile of it at my last check.
Looks like I'll be dropping in tomorrow and purchasing some for resale... supply and demand and all of that "free market economy" stuff :D
Capitalistically yours,
Dave
(p.s. I'm joshing... really.. hehehehehe...)
bmattock
11-27-2005, 17:43
Interesting, Bill. Are the chemicals readily avaiable, in reasonably small quantities?
Yep!
http://www.photoformulary.com/
http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/
Even B&H sells bulk raw chemicals from Clayton, Edwal, and Kodak. Yes, Kodak sells raw chemicals as well.
I'm planning to do some research first, rather than my usual, which is just jumping in willy-nilly. I hope to come up with something fun. Gotta be fun.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
phototone
11-27-2005, 17:49
Folks: for those who are gun-shy about mixing their own chems: The Photographer's Formulary has ready-made versions of so many developers, you'd lose your mind before you could try, let alone master, them all: http://www.photoformulary.com.
Ben Marks
Well, they are temporarily discontinued at Photographers Formulary. It says "watch for new liquid concentrate" on their website.
bmattock
11-27-2005, 17:49
Bill: between the "nude" thread and this one, I'm bustin out laughing tonight. Please, have mercy, any more horse sense and I'll need a hernia truss.
Sorry, I'll try to tone it down.
Folks: for those who are gun-shy about mixing their own chems: The Photographer's Formulary has ready-made versions of so many developers, you'd lose your mind before you could try, let alone master, them all: http://www.photoformulary.com.
FWIW, they also sell the componants. Anyone with a spare set of measuring spoons can mix their own Rodinol, or D-76, or Beer's or D-73 or XTOL etc. etc. It's the disappearance of film that should wake you in a cold sweat, not these brand-name developers.
Ben Marks
Ben, I absolutely agree with you regarding the film vice the chemistry problems.
Heck, you can develop film in coffee and fix it in salt water if you have to. But film is a bit of a sticky wicket.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
In perhaps the greatest irony of all - thanks to the combination of ebay, ridiculous prices for agfa branded rodinal, a well known formula, inkjet printers and a company out of [the] business - I predict an endless supply of Rodinal in bottles bearing the red rhombus to be had on ebay.
bmattock
11-27-2005, 18:05
In perhaps the greatest irony of all - thanks to the combination of ebay, ridiculous prices for agfa branded rodinal, a well known formula, inkjet printers and a company out of [the] business - I predict an endless supply of Rodinal in bottles bearing the red rhombus to be had on ebay.
Yeah, even if it's old A&W Root Beer bottles filled with "Super Developer Special from Mrs. Miggins Pie Shoppe" and the label crossed out and 'Rodinal' written on them in crayon.
And the beat goes on...
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Hey, are youse guys makin' fun of me? I'll have you know I was a very early customer of Photographers' Formulary!!!
Seriously, I've heard of people having problems mixing up their Rodinal brew, but that just may have been hamfisted English majors.
Like I said, I'm lazy, and Rodinal is available at quite reasonable prices. If the prices weren't reasonable (Freestyle or elsewhere), I wouldn't have "stocked up".
Earl, anxiously awaiting Ilford Delta 25.
:( I can't even get Rodinal shipped to Honolulu.
I guess thats the one thing that sucks about living in the middle of the pacific.
APX25 is a loss. There is evidently some thought being given at Ilford about introducing a new Delta 25 in the near future. That could be interesting.
Gene
For those who don't know, JandB Photo also sell EFKE-25 which is an excellent film. The attached image was taken on EFKE-25 with a Bessa-T and developed in Rodinal 25:1.
Walker
For those who don't know, JandB Photo also sell EFKE-25 which is an excellent film. The attached image was taken on EFKE-25 with a Bessa-T and developed in Rodinal 25:1.
Walker
I picked up a box of Efke 25 in 4x5. That should make for some _very_ long exposure times.
RJBender
11-27-2005, 18:39
hehe..... $11.50 CDN locally - and they've got a stockpile of it at my last check.
Looks like I'll be dropping in tomorrow and purchasing some for resale... supply and demand and all of that "free market economy" stuff :D
Capitalistically yours,
Dave
(p.s. I'm joshing... really.. hehehehehe...)
Go for it, Dave! :D
R.J.
RJBender
11-27-2005, 18:47
Yes, Stephen Anchell's work. However, the formulae are also available in various 'Photography of Chemistry' type books dating from the early 1900's up to the 1940's, when photographers stopped having to understand even the first thing about a benzene ring. I enjoy the hard work of trying to wrap my mind around basic chemical undstanding. But once you have the formula, that's just making soup on the stove, is all.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Bill, chicken soup will not explode on the stove. Benzene might. :( Be careful with those olde tyme cookbooks. ;)
R.J.
bmattock
11-27-2005, 18:49
Bill, chicken soup will not explode on the stove. Benzene might. :( Be careful with those olde tyme cookbooks. ;)
R.J.
Your chicken soup does not explode? :eek: Clearly, I've been doing something wrong.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
RJBender
11-27-2005, 19:01
LOL :p
It depends on what you feed the chickens, I reckon. :confused:
R.J.
Better than exploding after you've eaten it.
Rodinal Addict
11-27-2005, 19:23
I'm not worried about getting Rodinal. I've actually been a little curious, maybe I'll order some Calbe replacement just to try it out. In spite of my screen name, I'll try something different.
Robin
eli griggs
11-27-2005, 21:09
For those that want to try compounding their own developers, etc. and be precise, a Reloaders scale like the 5-0-5 RCBS is very handy. A number of formulas are measured in grains and reloader scales are setup to measure to .10 of a grain. FYI there are 7000 grains to a lb.
pshinkaw
11-28-2005, 12:21
I just bought four of these haf-liter bottles (one case) from ym local custom lab for $20 (total). They were reducing their inventory and now just sell the small bottles. I've never one of these sell for more than $14 a bottle.
-Paul
vincentbenoit
11-28-2005, 12:33
Many alternatives available. Not to worry...
Many alternatives available. Not to worry...
Well, I worry a bit ...
Fred
pshinkaw
11-28-2005, 13:25
Photographer's Formulary:
http://www.photoformulary.com/DesktopDefault.aspx
sells p-aminophenol developer, which is generic Rodinal
I suspect that the last two developers to exist on Earth will be D-76 and Rodinal.
-Paul
Your chicken soup does not explode? :eek: Clearly, I've been doing something wrong. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
True story: Back in the early part of the 20th Century, my grandparents cooked and heated with wood. One Winter, my grandfather began to notice that firewood was beginning to disappear from their pile on a regular basis. Soooo, he drilled a hole in one end of a piece of firewood using a brace and bit. The hole was filled with black powder and plugged. That piece of firewood was carefully placed so that it would be taken by the thief.
A few days later there was a sharp "BANG" from a next door neighbor's house. My grandfather stepped next door and saw a kitchen dripping chicken stew from the ceiling and covering the walls. He smiled, went back home and never mentioned it to the neighbor who never mentioned it to him. The theft of firewood stopped immediately.
My grandfather owned a mill and on another occassion someone was stealing animal feed at night. My grandfather's solution was a simple one: he ordered a double spring bear trap with spike teeth and when it arrived, he hung it by the front door of the mill. Customers would always ask why it was hanging there. My grandfather explained that someone was stealing feed and that he was now setting bear traps in different locations each night inside the mill. Sooner or later the thief would be caught. He never once actually set the trap but the stealing stopped very quickly.
In today's world the thieves would likely sue and a stupid jury would award them damages. 75 years ago thieves were held responsible for their own actions and the consequences thereof.
Walker
Benjamin Marks
11-28-2005, 15:02
Sorry, I'll try to tone it down.
Hey, I was just poking fun. There should have been a smiley there. Tone it up, if anything!!
In all seriousness: for the last year (minus the last 4 mos. -- just moved, don't ask), I've been using Pat Gainer's vitamin C/Phenidone developer. I'm happy to share the formula if anyone's interested. It's a two-solution, one shot developer with Borax, Vitamin C, Phenidone and Lye. Grain is very pretty and the negs both print and scan wonderfully. The stuff costs almost nothing to make and except for the Phenidone, everything can be purchased at a grocery store. Safe for septic too (v. small amounts of sodium hydroxide used). A 100g bottle of Phenidone should last about a billion years with this formula. If memory serves, 40 mls of each solution is diuted to develop 8 rolls of film in a Jobo rotary tank; you can see that two liters (1 liter each solution) of the concentrated stuff will suffice for even the most ambitious shooter.
Best regards,
Ben Marks
eli griggs
11-28-2005, 17:29
Ben Marks, I would like your 'shopping list' for the vitamin C developer. I recently became aware of this developer and knowing what household items are proven would be a big help, as any real world experience you have to pass on.
By-the-way, what films are you using this with?
Cheers,
Eli
Benjamin Marks
11-28-2005, 17:37
Lemme rummage around for it, I am just reconstituting my darkroom after moving homes this summer. I am using it with Neopan 400 and Ilford Delta 400.
SixtiesM2
11-28-2005, 20:23
Besides the Calbe R09 and Photographer's Formulary version, it seems that Agfa Rodinal will survive.
I found this thread on another forum: http://www.leica-camera.com/discus_e/messages/2/180973.html?1132957738
Which contains this pointer: http://www.bjp-online.co.uk/public/showPage.html?page=305832
So, Agfa Photo seems to have a future.
- Mike (new guy here)
Ben,
"In all seriousness: for the last year (minus the last 4 mos. -- just moved, don't ask), I've been using Pat Gainer's vitamin C/Phenidone developer. I'm happy to share the formula if anyone's interested. "
I would love to see your formular you are using.
leo
Besides the Calbe R09 and Photographer's Formulary version, it seems that Agfa Rodinal will survive.
I found this thread on another forum: http://www.leica-camera.com/discus_e/messages/2/180973.html?1132957738
Which contains this pointer: http://www.bjp-online.co.uk/public/showPage.html?page=305832
So, Agfa Photo seems to have a future.
- Mike (new guy here)Indeed Mike, you are the bearer of glad tidings! Welcome to the forum too! :)
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