Site underway

[ZeissFan]

I've created the framework for my review of the Zeiss Ikon.

Not a whole lot there, but the basics are there. It will change quite a bit as I get more into the camera.

Here it is. (http://elekm.net/zeiss_ikon) Best viewed with a screen resolution of 1024 x 768.

[vrgard]

Nicely done site. Looking forward to reading more about your experiences and impressions of the Zeiss rangefinder.

And no, you can't have the half case back! :p

[dmr]

May I make a suggestion, and please don't take this the wrong way. ...

Make it navigate the way people expect it to.

Having part of it pop up in a new resized window with no control buttons is incredibly annoying. :(

[JoeFriday]

I have to agree with that.. while the content looks very promising, the frame structure would prevent me from spending much time there

[jlw]

I agree that the way it appears is a bit counterintuitive.

For now, fellow frame-haters may be happier if you use this link:http://elekm.net/zeiss_ikon/pages/intro.html

[Frank Granovski]

Looks good, not much info but good, get rid of the pop-ups---that would be good.

How's the Ikon's viewfinder compared with the black Bessa R3A? :)

[Socke]

Ok, I've read it, big mistake!
Now I realy want one although I may compromise on my first M-Mount lens and get a Cosina 35mm Pancake first.

And Frank, reread it! There is a lot of information about the viewfinder.

[akalai]

...I don't mind the pop ups, and I find it pretty intuitive but more importantly it's an interesting read....well done!

...by the way "ZeissFan" your Contax IIa web page sent me on a downward spiral!!! :)

[Paul T.]

It's looking great. Never thought I'd sit at a computer, neglecting crucial work for 10 minutes while i played sound files of 'clicks' from different cameras.... please don't tell anyone who knows me!

[ZeissFan]

I added a few photos. Yeah, I might move it back into a traditional window. Still thinking about that. Thanks for the comments. I'm always willing to try something different. Some things work; some don't.

The 25 flared badly in one shot. The sun was to my left and up a bit. It was near sunset, and I was at the bottom of a hill, but there was a stream of light coming down the hill to my left and slightly in front. I'll have to try a few more shots over the next few days and see if I can replicate it.

Some of the photos are up to 200k, while others are smaller. I really want to try popup, but this is a simple way to run through all at once, unless you're on a dialup. Then life on the Web sucks.

-Mike

[ZeissFan]

I've reworked my minisite. Dumped the popup and went to a slightly more traditional frames page. Probably works better -- doesn't feel as cramped.

[Frank Granovski]

I wrote on an Internet posting that Leica users might come away feeling disappointed with the camera, because the Zeiss Ikon doesn't have that heavy feel, which some equate with high quality.

That's because the body is made with solid aluminium. :cool:

[Solinar]

A lovely tour.

[Flyfisher Tom]

Very nicely done, thank you.

[dmr]

I've reworked my minisite. Dumped the popup and went to a slightly more traditional frames page. Probably works better -- doesn't feel as cramped.

Much better. Thank you. :)

[Huck Finn]

That's because the body is made with solid aluminium. :cool:

I'm not sure what the implication is, Frank. :confused:

The Nikon FM3A is made of an aluminum alloy - just like the original Nikon FM2 was back in 1982. The Zeiss Ikon die-cast chasis is clad with another light-weight metal, magnesium - modern materials for a modern camera. The manufacture of a die-cast chasis makes both the FM & the ZI extremely rigid - just like uni-body construction in a car chasis. The FM series has always been considered extremely robust & no one has ever knocked it for using aluminum. In fact, one of the benefits of aluminum - & magnesium as well - is that it is extremely resistent to corrosion. When I was involved with a school playground committee, we chose aluminum for the structure for the same reason: anti-corrosive qualites. It is the best metal for this purpose. For the same reason it has been used in many other applications, such as airplanes.

For all of the desire to compare the Zeiss Ikon with the Leica M series, it is not the same camera. It is not "Leica-lite." I think that the Nikon FM series is a better comparison. Nikon created the FM series as a lightweight, compact, lower cost alternative to its professional series cameras, aimed at the entusiast & advanced amateur segment of the market. The FM was a completely new design even though it provided the same function - to take pictures - in a manual camera & many of the same features as the more advanced pro cameras of its day. The FM in the late '70s & the FM2 in the '80s took the market by storm. Nikon was surprised to find that in addition to the target market, it was also popular with professionals as a second body. Its combination of features, high quality, reliability, & ruggedness served even professionals well, even though none of them would have expected it to be on the same level as an F2 or an F3. The point is: they appreciated it for what it was in its own right.

IMHO this is how the ZI ahould be viewed - as a tour de force in its own right. Not because it's as good as or better than a Leica M. How could it be? It's half the price of an M7. However, if seen for what it is, it can be appreciated in its own context. It is the camera that Leica should have made for a different market segment. Unlike Nikon, they chose not to.

Huck

[ZeissFan]

To further add to Huck's comments, the trap is that you get into these endless comparisons of Leica vs. Zeiss Ikon with nitpicking over tiny features and you miss the bigger picture, which is this:

This camera should succeed or fail on its own merits but not because of how it compares with Leica.

That's why I want to give it a vigorous workout over the next six months. You really get to know a camera's strengths and weaknesses. And like any camera, you do adapt your style a bit to fit its ergonomics.

[jaap]

That's why I want to give it a vigorous workout over the next six months. You really get to know a camera's strengths and weaknesses. And like any camera, you do adapt your style a bit to fit its ergonomics.


That's absolutely true, zeiss fan ! Thats why i like the contax g2 so much the lenses are incompareble. At least in my (humble) opion.
By the way nice camera that zeiss ikon thing

[Stephan]

Dammit ! I want to get a medium format system but your website is giving me serious Ikon GAS... I've already got the Ikon xxxxl boxers :D

[Mazurka]

I'm not sure what the implication is, Frank. :confused:

Huck, obviously you haven't spent enough time on photo.net where Frank and his avatars run rampant. :p

IMHO this is how the ZI ahould be viewed - as a tour de force in its own right. Not because it's as good as or better than a Leica M. How could it be? It's half the price of an M7.

If the ZI proves to be reliable over the long run, it IS better than a Leica (at least from a user's POV) such as my M6TTL - and it will prove that Zeiss and Cosina are much more efficient (or at least their margin is much more reasonable to the customer) than Leica.

Funny how Leica zealots keep singing praises about things like the "smoothness" of the film advance. Guess what? The first thing I noticed about my brand-new M was how unsmooth the same mechanism was (and still is), compared with my lowly Nikon FM. :rolleyes:

[DaveSee]

I've created the framework for my review of the Zeiss Ikon.

Not a whole lot there, but the basics are there. It will change quite a bit as I get more into the camera.

Here it is. (http://elekm.net/zeiss_ikon) Best viewed with a screen resolution of 1024 x 768.
Very nice work, and generous of you to share your experiences with this gear!

Thanks+rgds,
Dave

[Palaeoboy]

"I want to get a medium format system but your website is giving me serious Ikon GAS"

I hear this GAS expression and have no idea what it means apart from a vapour sense. Please tell me! Its already confusing that Americans call Petrol, gas when its a liquid! Please dont confuse me more!

[wlewisiii]

Heh. "G"ear "A"quisition "S"yndrome. You tend to catch it around here if you listen to the other folks here sing the praises of their prefered systems. I've recently been badly infected by the Canon RF bug by this place...

William

[Huck Finn]

For anyone who is interested in the operational features of this camera, Hasselblad & Carl Zeiss have now made the instruction manual available on the website as a download. Of course, ZeissFan's site is better, but for any details that he has not yet addressed, you can walk through them step-by-step in the manual.

The downloads also include a Lens Manual & the new brochure.

Huck

[kmack]

Good job, nice site.
I guarantee that it will cause a massive GAS outbreak, did for me.

I have to cash in some stock options in about six months and I have been
wondering what I would do with some of the profits.

Thanks.

[jorisbens]

Congratulations on your excellent site and your new camera. I really enjoyed reading your review of the Zeiss Ikon, It's a lot more interesting then most review with their MTf-charts ;)

Joris

[vincentbenoit]

For anyone who is interested in the operational features of this camera, Hasselblad & Carl Zeiss have now made the instruction manual available on the website as a download. Of course, ZeissFan's site is better, but for any details that he has not yet addressed, you can walk through them step-by-step in the manual.

The downloads also include a Lens Manual & the new brochure.

HuckThanks for the info!
Cheers
Vincent

[James Burton]

Dammit ! I want to get a medium format system but your website is giving me serious Ikon GAS... I've already got the Ikon xxxxl boxers :D

Trust the Belgians to put Stella in tinnies. I suppose we drink wine from cardboard boxes so I can't really complain.

[James Burton]

Heh. "G"ear "A"quisition "S"yndrome. You tend to catch it around here if you listen to the other folks here sing the praises of their prefered systems. I've recently been badly infected by the Canon RF bug by this place...

William

Gotta say I've got serious ZI GAS. Can't wait for it to turn up in Camera Exchange or Camera Lane .

Now all I need is a job :-(

[ZeissFan]

I've gone back and rescanned a bunch of the b/w. I was simply too tired the other night, and I batch scanned 72 shots. I've now gone through them, rescanned and retoned to what they should be. Some changed, some not.

It's a big commitment to time, but hopefully my ongoing report will be useful to those considering the camera. I hope it will provide more information than a Leica vs. Zeiss Ikon feature-to-feature comparison.

And of course, it's a lot of fun. Heck, I've even stopped restoring cameras for almost a week!

[Stephan]

Trust the Belgians to put Stella in tinnies. I suppose we drink wine from cardboard boxes so I can't really complain.

Hehehe, well they make the Stella 40Km away, so I guess they can do whatever they want with it. As long as it stays CHEAP :D

[vincentbenoit]

I've gone back and rescanned a bunch of the b/w. I was simply too tired the other night, and I batch scanned 72 shots. I've now gone through them, rescanned and retoned to what they should be. Some changed, some not.

It's a big commitment to time, but hopefully my ongoing report will be useful to those considering the camera. I hope it will provide more information than a Leica vs. Zeiss Ikon feature-to-feature comparison.

And of course, it's a lot of fun. Heck, I've even stopped restoring cameras for almost a week!Thanks for your efforts. Much appreciated.
Cheers
Vincent

[kram]

ZeissFan, I'm impressed with the detail on your ZI web site. Well done.

[Huck Finn]

That's because the body is made with solid aluminium. :cool:

And the Leica body is made with . . . solid aluminum! :eek:

It's funny how myths develop. The Zeiss Ikon & the Leica M each has a chasis of die-cast aluminum. It is only the Leica top & bottom plates that are made of brass while the outer panels are of zinc. Zeiss OTOH has chosen magnesium for all of its outer cladding, including the top & bottom plates as well as the outer panels.

For all of the internet comments on Leica forums about the choice of materials for the Zeiss Ikon, none of these same posters mention that Leica abandoned brass in favor of zinc for the top & bottom plates on virtually all of the M6's (as wll as the later M4-P's). It has been brought back on the M7 & MP.

Another point of comparison (not to Leica) is that the weight of the Zeiss Ikon is identical to that of the Contax G1.

[existrandom]

Zeiss fan,

great work!!

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

I think I'll stick to my Contax G2. Reason being you may ask>?? As I called the local camera shop; I spoke to Marv and I asked him how much the camera was. He said, Well, $1600.00 for the Body, $1000.00 for the lens, $400.00 for the viewfinder. A Little too darn pricey for Something that doesn't say MADE IN GERMANY.

Hey ZEISS? at these prices the camera should be made in GERMANY.
PS....EVERYTHING MADE IN GERMANY IS GREAT......

[Dan States]

Wow, not THAT'S a troll! Good job! Go for the "Photography's not art" thread next...it never fails.

[Socke]

If it's made in Germany, it's over 3K for the body and over 1.5K for the lens.

But don't complain if it's only assambled in Germany from parts made in Portugal :-)

[Huck Finn]

:bang: :bang: Hey Socke, Maybe you Germans should work a little harder and charge a little less.

How many paid holidays do you guys get per year? 47........??

Here in the states we get approximately 10 per year.

So.....Work harder and take less vacation and maybe the German prices would go down.

Grapenuts, you wouldn't like more holidays? :confused:

[Socke]

:bang: :bang: Hey Socke, Maybe you Germans should work a little harder and charge a little less.

How many paid holidays do you guys get per year? 47........??

Here in the states we get approximately 10 per year.

So.....Work harder and take less vacation and maybe the German prices would go down.

It's more like 30 paid holidays a year, depending on age.

And I for one think, that a well rested and relaxed worker does make less mistakes and so produces better quality.
Our social security is expensive, too.

If you want high quality products, you need people who care about the products they make.

[Kevin]

Here we go again....you non-civilized countries should be adopting the 30-day vacation law (actually it is 24 here but most companies offer 30). It is the perfect sustainable plan. You take your annual 3-week summer vacation with the family and around two weeks during Christmas. In between you take some extended trips so that you can see the world and live your life as a healthy happy human being.

Germany will not adopt your weak, non-civilized standard because it is all wrong. I know managers in the USA who have 30 days vacation but most of the workers have between 5 and 10. It is wrong and unfair. If you are going to make a company rich with your labour, you deserve more compensated time off. Period.

End of story.

[darkkavenger]

I believe that French and German workers have the right to have their well earned holidays. The only thing is that if the Zeiss Ikon was fully produced in Germany, maybe some of the extremist Leica praisers would be keeping a lower profile.

I don't see as well why the fact of working more would make prices go down. Remember that Germany is a very highly industrialized high-tech society, and that living standards are very high as well. And that the rangefinder market is a niche market. It's not like producing DVD players or keyboards...

Also keep in mind that our countries have very advanced social care systems, and these systems have a cost. And most of us are happy that such things exist. :)

P.S. : I'm french, messieurs, :P that's why I also quote France even if our industry is not really oriented towards photography :P

[Kevin]

I dig that rap, French brother!

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

Huck Finn? Of Course I would......But the prices would go up on everything and I'm disappointed at the fact that the IKON is not made in Germany.
Someone has to pay for 47 paid holidays.........Huck? .....It's the consumer who pays for it....so the Germans just ship their ZEISS Scheisse to Japan to produce.

WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG

At the prices you are charging for your Zeiss IKON, the consumer is not going to buy it if it's made in Japan. Since it's made in Japan, the body should be no higher then $900-$1000.

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

PS. I certainly have the right to complain since I'm half German.
Auf Wiedersehen

[Trius]

I for one will be it whether it's made in Japan or Germany. If it is indeed a Zeiss product, then I don't care where they make it as long as it is made well, meets my needs, and I can pay the price.

Getting on a high horse about price vs. country of manufacture is silly, IMO. If it's that important, then go get a job at Carl Zeiss AG, rise to the top of product marketing or Sr. executive management, then make your statement by changing things.

Earl

[Huck Finn]

Since it's made in Japan, the body should be no higher then $900-$1000.

I'm not following the logic here. The Konica Hexar RF was made in Japan. The body retailed for about $1100 in 1999, which would be equivalent to about $1300 in today's dollars, given even the modest inflation we've had over the past 6 years. But then you add in the fact that the value of the dollar vs overseas currencies has eroded oaver the past 6 years, so the equivalent would be more like $1600, which is right where the ZI is selling in the states. I don't know how you arrived at your $900 - $1000 figure.

Another way to look at it is the fact that 1999 was the high water mark for film sales, so Konica could base its selling price on a fairly high anticipated sales figure, which is used to determine how overhead costs like R&D, administration, etc. will be spread out & paid for. In contrast, film has become a niche market 6 years later & RF cameras are a niche within that niche market. Zeiss can anticipate far lower sales than Konica could 6 years ago, further driving up the selling price.

Finally, consider this. The Cosina made Bessa R2/3A sells for $560, but to have it comparably equipped to a ZI, you have to add in the cost of a 28 auxiliary viewfinder at $145, bringing the price up to $705. By saying that the ZI should sell for $900 - $1000, you are saying that for an extra $200 - $300, you can add a longer RF baseline, larger viewfinder, more sensitive metering, automatic frameline selection, permanent AE lock, exposure compensation in 1/3 stop increments, frameline ID info in VF, improved rear door lock, AND improved quality control to Zeiss standards. If Cosina could have done this to the price point you suggest, I think they would have done so without Carl Zeiss AG.

Huck

[Gabriel M.A.]

WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG

Why the yelling?

[ZeissFan]

"WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG"

I would venture to say that you are not their intended buyer. So I don't think they'll feel bad if you don't buy the camera.

[Frank Granovski]

My mother was born in Berlin. If she were alive today and heard the Ikon wasn't made in Germany, she would croak, even though her last name was Rosenburg. :)

[jaap]

Huck Finn? Of Course I would......But the prices would go up on everything and I'm disappointed at the fact that the IKON is not made in Germany.
Someone has to pay for 47 paid holidays.........Huck? .....It's the consumer who pays for it....so the Germans just ship their ZEISS Scheisse to Japan to produce.

WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG

At the prices you are charging for your Zeiss IKON, the consumer is not going to buy it if it's made in Japan. Since it's made in Japan, the body should be no higher then $900-$1000.



What a bullsh.................

Zeis Ikon is a german brand it is engineerd in Germany. It is produced at a place were they can do it the best (for a given price). And they produce it were they expect to sell te most. THAT'S JUST CLEVER.
And to ease the worried minds quality control meets Zeiss Standards

[ZeissFan]

Frank, I think a lot of our descendants would faint to see what transpires in the world today. Making a camera in Japan certainly falls under the "so what" category. Anyway, no one seemed to have a problem buying lenses made in Japan for the Yashica/Kyocera Contax. What's the problem here?

[Photon-hunter]

Mike,

Thank you very much for sharing your experience with us. I am most impressed with the site/blog and your dedication to it...It has prooved very interesting, great fun and quite helpfull. If I wasnt allready expecting arrival of my new Leica M7 next week (I found your site/postings after my purchase) I would consider this beauty very seriously...

may I just suggest a few things??

- For those of us who return frecuently to your site to see if there´s any new stuff, maybe indicate in the main page the date of the last update...

- Considering the success of your publication, maybe add a "visitors-book" or "comments" page?

Keep it coming and thanks once more.

best regards, Erik.

[ZeissFan]

I had a comments section on my other page for the Voigtlander Bessa-R. It turned into a spam fest for porn sites.

I might try it again using some spam fighter technology -- requiring users to type in the phrase.

I can try to tag new content. I have some ideas. I always have some ideas.

[Palaeoboy]

"WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped."

Your arguement in these few lines proves your own contradiction. It comes down to your value of orgin of manufacture. If you were principled enough as you say about Porsche no price decrease would make up for it. BUT you clearly are prepared to give up the made in Germany tag for a price. Just that you place more value in it being made in Germany than most but you cant speak for everyone. I dont see Americans demanding their expensive Nike shoes not being made in Asian Sweat shops and offer to pay more money for local maufacture! The market seems to dissagree with you. Take the Zeiss 85mm Sonnar for example its the same price as Leicas 90mm both made in Germany. Would you pay Leica M7 prices for the Zeiss Ikon just so the very same camera has made in Germany on the base? No I bet you wouldnt.

I find your demand for the Germans to have less free time in the lives just so you can also have that Germany Label at a lower cost proof of how laughable your views are. I would like the USA to spend less on war and its miltary budget and put an end to world poverty. But Im Australian my vote doesnt count there. If the only way I could aford a Porsche is for it to be made in Japan, that wouldnt bother me. Leica gets some of its lenses made in Japan too. My country loyalty is usually dependant on human rights issues, not for any perceived pose value. Not once has anyone I know taken my camera to inspect where it was made on the bottom.

Leica moved its Binocular manufacture to Portugal, Zeiss to Hungry. Strangely enough its the major markets like the USA that demand everything cheaper force the regional change to save on labour costs but then complain things arent german made, its all quite odd! My favourite camera is the Minolta CLE and I am thankfull it was made in Japan. In 1980 Leica wasnt even offering an M mount camera with built in light meter let alone aperture priority auto. I think the Japanese taught the Germans alot about electronics as they did to the Japanese about optics in the early days. The student becomes the teacher. Thats Globalization and Innovation.

PS "I think I'll stick to my Contax G2............EVERYTHING MADE IN GERMANY IS GREAT" Zeiss owns the Contax name and leases it out, they were made in Japan too. They werent as cheap as they are now when they first came out either, how do you stubstanciate the made in Japan Logo on your camera base? A German camera manufacturer making that soffisticated AF and exposure system in Germany??? Boy that disaster would have ruined their reputation in one swoop!

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

Hi Joel. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..................my contax g2 is probably much better then the Ikon......at half the price.

You are Australian....and a good Ally of the Americans. Quit Whining.

[Huck Finn]

Hi Joel. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..................my contax g2 is probably much better then the Ikon......at half the price.

You are Australian....and a good Ally of the Americans. Quit Whining.

What a thoughtful reply. A real positive contribution to the conversation. :rolleyes:

[Huck Finn]

I would like the USA to spend less on war and its miltary budget and put an end to world poverty. But Im Australian my vote doesnt count there.

My country loyalty is usually dependant on human rights issues

I agree with both of your points, Joel. I live in America, but sadly, my vote doesn't seem to count either. :mad:

Huck

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

I guess we can all agree that the Ikon is a fine system.....but the price can come down just a tad

[Mazurka]

A German camera manufacturer making that soffisticated AF and exposure system in Germany??? Boy that disaster would have ruined their reputation in one swoop!

The Rolleiflex 6008 AF has been available for several years now: http://www.sl66.com/slx/6008af.htm

Except for that, Paleo, you're largely correct. Just don't waste your time in feeding the trolls and give them what they want. :eek:

[Huck Finn]

I guess we can all agree that the Ikon is a fine system.....but the price can come down just a tad

Good point, Grapenuts. What price have you seen?

I've seen prices ranging from $1300 USD (grey market) to over $1600 USD. Amazing spread for a camera newly on the market. American prices seem to be the highest anywhere, so I'm speculating that Zeiss was concerned about the eroding American dollar when they first announced the price a year ago. Since then, there has been some recovery in the dollar, so I wonder if we might see rebates or discounts after the initial flurry of sales - as long as the dollar doesn't go south again. My hunch is that they want to stick with the price they start with to contrast themselves with Leica's ever rising prices these days. Therefore, start high but stick with it. Of course, I may be way off base. :)

Huck

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

$1600 for the body seems to be the norm

[Huck Finn]

No, it really isn't. $1617 is the MSRP in the USA, which is far from the norm across the world. Even in USA, the price is $1300 at either Camera Quest or Popflash, two respected grey market dealers.

The MSRP price in England is $1362 USD (See Robert White), which is NOT a grey market price but distributed by Hasselblad. In Hong Kong, MSRP is $1395 USD (See Four Seas Trading company via joseph@yao.com), again NOT grey market, but from Shriro/Hasselblad.

One can only speculate on the high USA price, but it is not the norm.

Huck

[JohnL]

Your site is getting better and better. Great work!

[XXXGRAPENUTSXXX]

Hi Mike!
Your Web site is excellent; thanks.....I'm going to pick up an Ikon after the new Year.

[Huck Finn]

To offer some continued perspective on this question of Zeiss Ikon price, the MSRP on the Cosina website is 153,000 yen, or $1270 USD. But there was a post on the CVUG list this morning that the "street price" in Japan is 135,000 yen, or $1120 USD. The poster was reporting based on his inspection of the camera & the price in a major camera shop there.

Quite a price spread for this camera! $1120 - $1617, almost $500 depending where in the world you buy it.

Huck

[Dan States]

If this is true it is possible to go from the US to Japan, purchase the camera and come home for not much more than buying the camera here....I forsee a trip in Jan......

[Michaelr]

Mike, Thanks, ' plan to get one in ' 6. Your efforts have helped me in my product research.

[Brian Sweeney]

The 50mm F2 looks like the WW-II vintage Sonnars in LTM!

No little grips on the aperture ring, like the original Sonnars.

How am I going to tell it from a J-3!

I've been taking so many J-3's apart lately.

[celluloidprop]

$1120 for this camera puts it in a whole different realm, I must say. If I were in the market (I'm far from it), a $1650 Ikon vs. a used M7 for a hundred or two more is a difficult decision. But the Ikon for $700-800 less (esp. given the price of Ikon lenses) is a fine deal.

[Huck Finn]

$1120 for this camera puts it in a whole different realm, I must say. If I were in the market (I'm far from it), a $1650 Ikon vs. a used M7 for a hundred or two more is a difficult decision. But the Ikon for $700-800 less (esp. given the price of Ikon lenses) is a fine deal.

The price of the Zeiss Ikon becomes increasingly attractive vs a used M7 even at $1617 for the ZI. The latest round of price increases announced by Leica will put the M7 at $3500 USD as of January 1. With the two previous rounds of price increases for the M7 within the past year, prices for used M7's had already begun to rise to the $2000 - $2500 range. The latest increases will only raise prices on the used market even higher.

The ZI is selling for $1300 (grey market) - $1617 (MSRP) in USA & $1100 (grey) - $1400 (MSRP) internationally, The price point originally targeted was 60% Leica M7 price; the price point is now 30% - 50%. With rising Leica prices, Celluloidprop's point is only increasingly relevant that it is becoming a bargain even vs a used M7.