Mac storage: RAID vs Time Capsule??? [Archive]

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robklurfield

08-14-2012, 11:03

I ordered a new computer today to replace my eight-year old Macbook (with a dead display as of last week). Got a Macbook Pro Retina all souped up + a Thunderbolt display.

Although I ordered a 2TB Time Capsule, I'm still debating about switching to a LaCie 2Big Thunderbolt (with two hot-swappable 2TB drives) and a new Airport Extreme instead. Anyone have strong opinions or well-informed suggestions on this???

I definitely need a new router and want to stick with Apple. Am I nuts to get the Time Capsule? The LaCie system looks great in terms of robustness and redundancy, but the last thing I need to do is put more charges onto my credit card (Barclays Bank has a one-year interest free deal with Apple right now).

Bill Clark

08-14-2012, 11:14

What I use to store photographs are devices like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/736911-REG/Western_Digital_WDBACX0010BBK_NESN_My_Passport_Ess ential_SE.html

When I was busy (now I'm semi-retired) I would use several of these each year. I have 5 copies for each event. Therefore I would have quite a few of these in my file cabinet. I'm starting to re-cycle them now. Don't know if I really need that many as I haven't experienced hard drive failure yet. Maybe i"m due!

I keep my digital stuff simple and it's worked for me, gosh, I've been pretty much digital capture for my business for 8 years!

I have a computer that's so old it has Windows 95 on it. I still use it for accounting and some other business stuff.

When I was 100% film I didn't have copies of the negatives and they have their own things that can happen with age.

At any rate, I'm a simpleton and simple seems to work for me just fine.

porktaco

08-14-2012, 11:17

the RAID deal is more expensive, but provides greater security. i've read mixed results on time capsules. sometimes they die w/o warning. oops.

jpfisher

08-14-2012, 11:53

The Time Capsule is an attractive option for laptops--I keep my MacBook Pro Time Machine backup on an external HD hooked up to an Airport Extreme router--but I wouldn't rely on it as my sole backup for photos.

My backup strategy:

All photos + Lightroom library/catalog file stored on an external RAID 1 drive. I use Western Digital MyBook Studio models as they have FireWire 800 and I've not yet moved to a Thunderbolt iMac.

My Time Machine drive is a 4-disk RAID 5. If one of the drives fails, I swap in a new one and it rebuilds. I use an OWC enclosure. No problems to speak of.

I keep another copy of my photos on a large external hard drive that is currently in a fire proof safe. It really should be offsite.

I also upload full-resolution JPGs of all my shots to Smugmug. They aren't Raw or TIF (for scanned negatives), but they are quite printable in case all other storage methods fail.

I have had drives fail completely. The one thing that you can be sure of about a hard drive is that it will eventually crash. You can pay and arm and a leg for data recovery, or you can have a sound backup strategy.

The SSD in your MacBook Pro Retina doesn't have moving parts and should be much safer home for your data than any hard drive. But it's housed in a laptop, which is a commonly stolen item. I'd keep the Time Capsule as an onsite backup and also consider a RAID 1 or RAID 5 array to house the bulk of your photo archive (eg, non-current projects). Personally I on migrating my main storage to a RAID 5 array when I've outgrown my current RAID 1 disk.

Hope this helps.

Richard G

08-14-2012, 12:09

I frequently find that the Time Capsule Backup fails often for various reasons. Every now and then it starts a new 130GB backup and because I'm in and out this might take a few days to get done. My last backup is sometimes a few hours ago but sometimes a few days ago. One of my Time Capsules died. So not a good standalone solution by any means. I don't have experience of RAID, just multiple copies on multiple external HDs.

Sejanus.Aelianus

08-14-2012, 13:11

I keep my data on a separate partition and use Carbon Copy Cloner to back up the OS-X partition, for a bootable copy. The data gets copied to a network drive, as soon as I've written it and that drive gets backed up nightly to a different location. It all sounds very grand but the network drives run off NSLU2s, which cost next to nothing. Being as I've worked in the software industry long enough to have seen the ingenious ways that people can screw up storage, I also take regular clones of the data partitions.

Belt, braces and a piece of string. :D

Rogier

08-14-2012, 13:20

Time Capsule is a great solution for some but not for you!

Definitely stick with a Airport Extreme or Express for your home / office network!

External storage I suggest you use a external HD preferably with a Thunderbolt or FW 800 connection.

Time Machine Back-Up: Use 2nd external HD to back-up the internal and external drive with your images..

Having the original files stored on the same external drive as your Time Machine Back-up makes little sense. When this back-up drive fails with you will loose the image that where stored on it right?

Letting time Machine Back-Up both drives is a easy but not the best solution. I would prefer to have TM only back-up the internal drive and either manually copy images from the 2nd drive to the back-up drive.
Or use software like Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com) or Superduper (http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html) to create incremental back-ups from the external storage drive..
Or you can create a script using Automator (comes with the Mac) or Hazel (http://www.noodlesoft.com/hazel.php).

I use a Synology DS1500+ NAS storage with dual disk redundancy. Plus some bare drives with a docking station to copy the files with original images and store these outside the house.

Hope this helps,

Rogier

Rogier

08-14-2012, 13:23

You make a complete backup rather than a Time Machine backup which only takes minutes?

Rare for a Time Capsule drive to fail, usually only the power supply or wireless fails not the drive itself -- which can usually be removed and mounted.

Sorry to disagree on the lifespan of a Time Capsule. On average the drive lasts 2 - 3 years... Depending on how manny computers are using it. With multiple Mac's backing up to one TC the disk is spinning almost 24/7. Combined with the tight packaging and limited (no) cooling makes for a short life.

It still is a great product for households with teenagers and women... :angel:

john_s

08-14-2012, 13:44

Time capsule is convenient if you have laptops around, but they are fragile. Unlike most computer equipment, its maximum recommended environmental temperature is 30degC because it gets hot. Heat is the enemy of long life in computers.

A better solution is at least two external hard disks, one stored away from where you do your work.

CK Dexter Haven

08-14-2012, 14:02

I would stay away from Lacie products. They look fantastic, but....

Consider a DROBO.

Eric T

08-14-2012, 14:16

I love Apple products generally, but not Time Capsule. I had two of them and neither lasted long. I now use use a 2 Tb LaCie external hard drive for my libraries (iTunes, Aperture, Movies, etc). I use a separate external hard drive to back up my computer using Time Machine. You don't need a Time Capsule to use Time Machine - any external HD with enough space will do the job.

RObert Budding

08-14-2012, 15:15

Be adventurous - build yourself a FreeNAS box. ZFS RAID.

http://www.freenas.org/

Rogier

08-14-2012, 15:26

I would stay away from Lacie products. They look fantastic, but....

Consider a DROBO.

I had a Drobo FS and am still a distributor. Sold a couple off them.
The only one good thing about them is the UI. For the rest they are slow as thick ........ Also support is very limited.

Switched all Drobo boxes for Synology (http://www.synology.com/us/index.php) with good results.

Rogier

08-14-2012, 15:27

You confirmed the drive itself was no longer functional? Two years would not do for a backup IMO. I admit not being a big fan of Western Digital, but still I have not had one fail so badly I could not recover from it.

I do want to point out that all the Time Capsules I have examined do have a fan, although it is only on when the drive is used continuously.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4577/airport-extreme-5th-gen-and-time-capsule-4th-gen-review-faster-wifi-/4

Yes as a former Genius (4 years at the Genius Bar) I can speak from experience...

texchappy

08-14-2012, 15:47

I have a TC (had it about 3 years) and haven't lost any data (knock wood). Even so, it's really one of the cludgier Apple solutions and I am an Apple fan. I'd recommend the Airport express and LaCie option. I also back up automatically to Carbonite so I've grown a little complacent on my local backups.

IIRC, the 1-2-3 rule still applies - 1. backup locally to a connected source, 2. backup locally to a removable source, 3. backup to a remote source.

willie_901

08-14-2012, 17:02

Time Capsule is a great product. I don't think it's a great solution for active photographers. I use Time Machine and 1 TB external drives instead.

Because TC is wireless the data transfer rate is relatively slow. My Lightroom catalogs files are more than 1 GB in size. This means every time my LR catalog changes, TC would have to do a huge back up over WIFI. having Time Machine doing the file transfer via a cable is much faster and more practical.

RAID is great if used properly. A RAID is not a substitute for Time Machine because and error you make on your working drive is quickly mirrored on the RAID drive. RAID is great or redundantly copying your back ups though.

MaxElmar

08-14-2012, 17:32

What Willie 901 said. Wireless + backup just don't go together well when the files get large. My home wireless network has about a dozen devices trying to connect. An Aperture or Lightroom library can be a very large file, even with referenced images. I'm pretty sure Time Machine has gained a less-than-perfect reputation because of Time Capsule wireless problems. I use Time Machine on attached drive and an attached RAID for main storage. That's for a desktop workstation. For a notebook, I'm sure you can buy an Airport Extreme for your network and a nice, compact USB external drive to dedicate to Time Machine for about the same as what you would pay for a 2GB (or larger) Time Capsule.

craygc

08-14-2012, 19:40

A couple of points to think about...

As others have mentioned here and elsewhere, RAID is hardware redundancy, and does not represent backup
Everyone's only thinks about hard drive failure in these external drives; also think about power supply or bridge board failures: ie. if the drive/s is/are ok how do you get your data off the drive? I recently faced this with a PS failure on my NAS that no longer had parts available. A new NAS from the same vendor didnt support the existing RAID volumes. Fortunately I knew the file formats and had a recovery process in place for this type of event
If you understand the above problem and use RAID, "only" use RAID 1. RAID 5 & 6 might be much more efficient at using disk space but without the specific RAID controllers you have zero access to anything in the event of hardware failure.
I actually run an incremental backup between 2 RAID 1 volumes within the same NAS.
Why so insistent on Apple routers? Their wireless routers are very basic. With something like a Linksys router you could attach a wired NAS to it directly for access from your Mac Book.
I use Time Machine to a Firewire bare drive but only for backing up apps and the desktop.
Goodsync is much better software - a more controllable application for backups
Lacie lack quality control; you never know what drives you are getting. It just depends on where they got a good deal at the time.

robklurfield

08-14-2012, 20:03

jpfisher

08-15-2012, 04:44

Wow. I'm getting quite an education here. Some of you are clearly more technically proficient than I am. Let's talk budget and an approach that would allow incremental capacity upgrades later. If I could only spend $600 or less and wanted the simplest solution, where would you recommend I spend the money?

On a Mac? Two RAID 1 arrays -- one as your working drive, one as a local Time Machine backup, and one more external as an offsite copy.

On a PC, same deal, just using a different backup application than Time Machine.

Assuming that you have less than 2TB of data, this shouldn't be a problem. Remember that because RAID 1 is mirrored storage you'll have to buy 4TB of physical storage to hit 2TB.

You could buy two of these -- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/625843-REG/Western_Digital_WDH2Q40000N_4TB_My_Book_Studio.htm l -- and use this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/848221-REG/Seagate_STAY2000102_Expansion_External_Hard_Drive. html) as your offsite copy.

When you run out of space on your working drive, buy a new RAID 1 that is double the capacity of the previous, turn that into your Time Machine/backup drive, and turn your old Time Machine/backup drive into a second volume for your Lightroom library. If you're using Aperture it might be a bit complicated, as I don't think you can split your library over multiple volumes.

That's a little bit over your budget; costs would be less if you have 1TB or less to archive/backup. It will give you five copies of your data -- four local, one offsite. You can save a bit by not using a RAID drive as your backup drive -- that's three local copies and one offsite. Personally, I try to allow for as many points of failure as possible.

I like the WD My Studio RAID drives for a couple reasons. One, they include a software application that lets you know if a drive has failed. Second, they are warrantied for three years, and WD will advance ship a replacement drive to you if it fails under warranty.

If your budget expands, your options do. You can look into something like a 4-disk RAID enclosure that lets you add your own storage and swap drives out as needed. There's also the Drobo, which is a proprietary RAID format. I had a network version for a while that I used as my backup drive, but it stopped functioning when I upgraded to Lion and Drobo wasn't able to provide a solution. I sold it and opted for a local RAID 5 solution for backup instead.

(RAID 5, as Craig pointed out, uses a proprietary controller to write data across four drives with parity--if one drive fails, you don't lose any data; and the system only eats 25% of storage for the overhead parity data, versus 50% for RAID 1. I wouldn't use one as my sole storage solution without backup, but I would be fine using a RAID 5 for backup and a RAID 5 as storage--again, the chances of both failing simultaneously are remote enough that I'd not worry too much about losing my data, and as always, there needs to be an additional offsite copy to be reasonably bullet proof).

__hh

08-15-2012, 05:16

My approach looks at the problem in 3 tiers:

Tier 1: Quick access, high throughput performance. 2 TB Internal HDD. This is supplemented by a 2TB standard WD external HDD acting as my Timemachine backup so that if the computer gives in, I can quickly restore the current data.

Tier 2: Reliable, but not so quick access nor high throughput performance, but not that slow. This is done my a Netgear ReadyNAS box connected by GigEthernet. This box has 4 slots, containing a 2TB drive in each. Although there are 8TB altogether, the box is configured in Raid 5 (?) so that if any one of the 4 drives fail, I can just replace it. This is effectively a 6TB NAS unit that can withstand a drive failure. I move stuff that I no longer need constant access from my computer to this unit.

Tier 3: Really important stuff that I cannot afford to loose. Gets copied from my NAS onto an external USB HDD and stored somewhere else. Speed of access nor throughput performance are important here.

dasuess

08-15-2012, 06:03

I have had a 1TB Time Capsule that has worked faithfully for over two years, both as my router and for Time machine backups of my Macbook and MacMini. When the TC does start to die, I will replace it with the latest Airport Extreme router (love how easy it is tomanage my network from multiple computers and my iPad). I use Aperture and my digital image files are stored on my Macbook, backed up to a portable USB drive (so I can take it with me) and to another external USB drive hanging off the TC. For backing up the image files and Aperture libraries I use a program called GetBackup.

RedLion

08-15-2012, 07:59

I use a program called "superduper" to create multiple bootable backups on external hard drives, some of which are always connected and some of which I keep disconnected until I want to perform a backup. You can also use this technique to create a bootable disk for a previous operating system, like SnowLeopard when upgrading to MountainLion. That way, you an always boot from your SnowLeopard environment if necessary.

Joe

john_s

08-15-2012, 14:37

At least everyone now knows Apple hard drive enclosures have a fan :D.

.......

Even though they have a fan they are still subject to enough heat to shorten the life of hard disks. That's why their recommended environmental temperature is limited to 30degC. It's the price you pay for compact, neat style. I can't put mine where it would give best wireless coverage (in the roof cavity) because it sometimes gets hotter than that temperature.

robklurfield

08-15-2012, 17:24

so much good advice (some of it competing, even conflicting; but, hey, this is the place where we debate everything else ... "does the v2 35 cron really render less beautiful bokeh than the ...."). I appreciate ALL the insights and hope to see more.

my inclination right now (it changes faster than the weather) is to keep the Time Capsule and plan for an upgrade in a year when I see how my needs develop and my patience thins.

If all my hardware died right now, with no possibility of recovery, I do have backups in the form of negatives (they survived a flood already), prints (ditto) and 12,000+ images backed up to flickr. (he writes while knocking wood.)

Before we had all this technology, what, if anything, did most of us do for disaster recovery on negatives and prints? Obviously, film (modern, post-nitrate film) and prints had some special archival qualities that made them durable in ways that digital media might not be. On the other hand, if the building that had all your negatives and prints caught fire, where would you be???

In 1978 the US National Archives AND George Eastman House BOTH had fires in the vaults that housed their archives of nitrate based films (movies). The National Archives lost 12.6 million feet of newsreel footage. My wife worked for a film library (Sherman Grinberg Film Libraries) where the nitrate vault's holding could be seen disintegrating almost before one's naked eyes. The librarians there would cut out rotted sections straight from the reels (cross sections really) as they were cancer (actually, they were cancer). Grinberg had Movietone News, Paramount News, Pathe, etc. newreels, PLUS gillions of feet of 3/4inch video cassettes from ABC News.

Trius

08-16-2012, 14:47

I have an MBA connecting to an Extreme. The Extreme has two USB drives attached. One is the drive for Time Machine, backing up all other storage devices. The other drive is my work drive for photos, iTunes database and files, and anything else I don't need to store locally on the MBA.

I'd prefer to have a RAID 1 drive as my Time Machine target (I have a friend using this implementation at my suggestion), but I feel fairly comfortable with my current setup until I have made some other investments in photo equipment, supplies and my daughter's year of study in France, and then have the option to upgrade the backup drive.

kuzano

08-16-2012, 15:00

Do the deep research...

Who builds their drives.... no, really who builds them?

Google and Yahoo the words LaCie Issues or Lacie Problems

Sorry, that's just 25 years of computer consulting talking. I would not take on a service contract for network support for any networks incorporating LaCie drives.

RObert Budding

08-16-2012, 15:06

I would not take on a service contract for network support for any networks incorporating LaCie drives.

I would - if the price were right.

Godfrey

08-16-2012, 15:23

RObert Budding

08-17-2012, 05:19

I also run a cloud backup (CrashPlan) because I'm a belt and suspenders guy when it comes to data.

Trius

08-17-2012, 16:45

From my limited research/reading, I'd rather go with G Tech drives (Seagate if budget dictated) over LaCie.

zauhar

08-17-2012, 18:02

Rob, sorry , just saw your thread, do not have energy to read it all ...

But I will say I have been burned a couple times by time capsule, where I could not restore all data.

The safest solution is to back up using BRUclone to an external RAID. You can elect to make the copy bootable.

Randy

flip

08-17-2012, 21:04

Perhaps a different take here. I use time machine on the local computer, but keep images (actually, all non-application data) on external drives. I should use an array to be more secure. But I'm cheap and settle for manual mirroring on a semi-regular basis. The key to me is that it be on an external unit from which data could be extracted by an OS other than mac. You'd be surprised the amount of times failed drive' contents can be salvaged with a linux CD. Choose wisely when you format your discs.

willie_901

08-18-2012, 08:05

Time Capsule has saved my butt so many times It's embarrassing. My raw archive (everything I've ever downloaded from a card or scanned) has been a lifesaver a few times too

john_s

08-18-2012, 15:19

I don't expect there are really any drives which would love being kept above the insulation in a roof cavity (attic). It makes sense from a theft standpoint, but in many parts of the US those areas could easily get to 125° F.

The drives themselves are not usually the problem, drives operate at up to 140° F (60° C) it's the power supplies which literally burn up, and cause all sorts of problems with data. Almost all drives run too hot to touch, without problem.

Environmental requirements
Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)
Storage temperature: -13° to 140° F (-25° to 60° C)
Relative humidity (operational): 20% to 80% (noncondensing)
Relative humidity (storage): 10% to 90%
Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet
Maximum storage altitude: 15,000 feet

They will run, but that sort of temperature definitely shortens their life. That's why the quoted operating temperature is 35°C.

Ask me how do I know this!

majid

12-01-2012, 00:52

Avoid the Time Capsule. It is unreliable because of inadequate thermal disspation (plastic rather than metal case) and dog-slow in any case, as it is designed for backups, not as a primary work drive.

Get a Thunderbolt RAID enclosure with a metal chassis acting as a passive heat sink. such as the Hitachi G Drive or Promise Pegasus (Wiebetech and OWC/Newer Tech do not make Thunderbolt arrays yet). I wish WD would make a Thunderbolt version of their excellent metal-bodied My Passport Studio line.

MiniMoke

03-19-2013, 00:00

I use a Time Capsule 2Tb to back up 3 Macs at home, both wirelessly and wired and apart from the initial backup which takes ages, everything runs smoothly.

Then again, I do not trust ANY harddrive, so I have about 110 Gb of Dropbox space I use to back up all my data! My iPhoto libraries as well as Aperture.

Last but not least, I periodically back up my main mac to a USB drive I store at the office..... you never know. House burns down and Dropbox..... well, what could happen? Anyway, I just do it.

Of course, all the time I backed up everything, no problem whatsoever has occured. Just waiting for the time I stop backing up I guess.

kanzlr

03-19-2013, 00:52

use a QNAP Box on our LAN.

you can pack in 4 drives to have a raid, use it for timecapsule, connect an external USB drive to the QNAP for additional automated backup, etc.

superb little unit, fast enough for even big files referenced from Aperture...