View Full Version : A Nazi Pretender?
I know that there are a lot of Nazi fakes out there (and I'm not even including the obvious Russian fakes), but I was wondering if this camera:
7554515666 (http://cgi.ebay.com/1941-42-Leica-IIIc-Camera-381080-w-Leitz-Elmar-5cm-yqz_W0QQitemZ7554515666QQcategoryZ30030QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)
Is trying to be a pretender for the unsuspecting buyer? It doesn't have the military serial number engraved on top, but the brassed area on the back is in the correct location, and it is in the right timeperiod and batch of cameras to be a Nazi camera.
I was looking for a real beater camera to do some work on, and this one looked like it had promise until I saw the brassing, because now I suspect it will end up selling fo 2x or 3x it's value...
Any thoughts on if this is an attempt to boost the price by making it similar to a military Leica?
Didn't people try to erase Nazi emblems postwar to remove the stigma?
The other curious thing is the Elmar looks like a 35mm f3.5 not a 50mm.
Definately a camera to work on.
Well, yes, the logo was often removed, which is why it is fairly easy to have an item like this look like it used to be marked with a logo, but not actually have been a military model.
The thing is, of course, a scammer doesn't say it is a military model, they leave it to the buyers to tell themselves it is. They just give enough hints that the piece could be a militray model, and leave it up to the buyer to connect the dots.
Anyone know if there is a knowledgeable person who has accurate Leica serial numbers on an item like this? I suppose it would be possible to fake the serial numbers too, but that would be more difficult.
If it is a military model, it is probably an army model, not the air force, as it appears that the army didn't have a seperate ID number on top like the air force did.
My Hove 5th edition confirms the model and date. The lens has the 50 Elmar mount markings on comparison with mine. 'Best to hear from that knowledgeable individual.
You may want to do more research but my reference ("Leica, the First 60 Years") indicates that many Luftwaffe issue Leicas would be marked with a number on the top plate as well as lettering on the rear. Only Navy issue cameras appear to have been marked with the "Reichsadler" surmounting the letter "M" (Eagle/Swastika over an "M") and that was on the top plate. (The German Navy was called "Kreigs Marine".) Some Wermacht issue cameras were marked "HEER" (Army) on the top plate.
Less than half a dozen (at last count that I know of) Exakta cameras have been found bearing Nazi Navy markings. Leicas with various military markings are more common.
However, many cameras were used by the German military as they came from the factory and were not marked. Lacking other proof, it would be purely guessing to say that the camera you're looking at was used by the German military. It was made during the correct time period so it's possible but not certain. The 5cm Elmar appears to be coated and is almost certainly post-war or coated after the fact unless the picture only makes it appear to be coated.
Does the Hove book also indicate the military serial numbers? The cameraquest website has serial numbers, and the dates are accurate, but that doesn't mean it is military. It could be a (probably) rare civillian model from that time period.
It's in such bad shape that it will probably scare off all but someone who is convinced it is a military model. That's why I was thinking it may have been set up as an imposter.
It looks real to me, who knows what was there before it was erased, possibly just a name.
I think it's worth about 150USD.
p.s. I have seen several real ones, but you can't tell much from just those pics.
The Hove does not specify serial #s for military models excepting FI 38078 and 38079. Pages 62-64a describe military models.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.