View Full Version : OT: Any P6 fan out there?
hi,
Just want to see if there are any Pentacon 6 or Kiev 60 fan out there?
Will
I use Kiev 60 and P6. The CZJ lenses are very good.
Jason.
Count me as a fan and user of the Kiev 60! I haven't shot mine much lately as I've been caught up in this 35mm RF thing...My second FSU camera buy was an Arax tweaked K-60 and I have been very happy with it. And most of the lenses I bought with it. The Mir 45mm is my only real dissapointment: I don't like the "look" of it and the lens itself just doesn't seem as robust as the others I have. Too bad as I do like the FOV of the 45mm length. Eventually I will get the Flektagon 50mm, but for now I've been concentrating on putting together a 35mm system.
I just checked and my K-60 is still on Arax's "special edition" page and HERE(click) (http://araxfoto.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=66). I thoroughly enjoyed dealing with Mr. Vartanyan! And the Camera is still the only SLR I own.
Rob
I have the Kiev 60, Kiev 645 and the Kiev-88 with lenses from 30mm WA to 300mm Tele. They are capable of excellent results.
Walker
I got a P6TL with the 50mm Flektogon (SC), 80mm Biometar (MC), 180mm Sonnar (MC), 300mm Sonnar (MC). Sold the 50 & the 300, far too heavy without a car!
Got sick of the camera shaking on the tripot(300mm Sonnar), and started getting into 35mm RF. :D
How do you solve the problem of "not having MLU"?
P C Headland
10-06-2005, 02:45
I recently got a P6 TL with metered prism, then added a 50mm Flektogon.
Very pleased with the results, and the camera handles nicely. No problems with film spacing, and the metered prism seems accurate enough. I'll probably add a 120mm at some stage, but the wide angle was the main reason for buying it.
I've handheld it with the standard 80mm at 1/30s with problems, and done slow (1/5s to 8s) shots on a lightweight tripod. I haven't seen any problems with camera shake, although you can certainly feel the mirror when it starts its travel. You could carry the 50 and 80 around all day, but the longer lenses are definitely more of a challenge. Good for dangerous places though ;)
In spite of the falling prices for other MF gear, it's still probably the best value if you're more interested in wide angle lenses (either that, or the older Bronica EC/S2 range) or close ups.
Paul
Daniel Unkefer
10-06-2005, 04:30
I have two P6's upgraded to EX66 (by Pentacon), an Exakta 66 MK2, a K60, a cobra-covered 6c, and a Hartblei 1006 that takes Blad backs. Sold all my Russian lenses, excepting the 30. Have the CZJ 50, 80, 120, 180, 300, and 500. Great stuff for the money spent, can't think of any other system as comprehensive as this.
Richard Black
10-06-2005, 04:45
:D I have just one P6tl with the CZJ 50, 65, 80, S-K80, and Kalenar 150 lenses. I have had it customized by Rolf-Dieter to add a brighter focusing screen and his device to insure proper film advancing. Neat! Have taken a lot of great shots with this combo.
Mark Wood
10-06-2005, 06:00
I've got a 6 and a 6TL. The TL seems fine although it has the slight problem that the take-up spool sits at a slight angle (the pin that holds it in place is slightly bent) and so the frame edges don't like up parallel to the film edge. The 6 is another matter (yes, eBay...). It's now on it's 3rd trip back to the repairer to try to solve...you've guessed it...overlapping frames. If you put a film through, fire the shutter on "B" and mark each frame through the gate, each frame is a perfect 1/4 inch from the last. Put a "real" film through it though and overlapping starts at frame 2, finally sorting itself out again by 10 - every time, without fail! The lenses I have (50, 80, 180) are heavy but really sharp and the metering prism is spot on, even though it makes the screen rather dark.
I've got a 6 and a 6TL. The TL seems fine although it has the slight problem that the take-up spool sits at a slight angle (the pin that holds it in place is slightly bent) and so the frame edges don't like up parallel to the film edge. The 6 is another matter (yes, eBay...). It's now on it's 3rd trip back to the repairer to try to solve...you've guessed it...overlapping frames. If you put a film through, fire the shutter on "B" and mark each frame through the gate, each frame is a perfect 1/4 inch from the last. Put a "real" film through it though and overlapping starts at frame 2, finally sorting itself out again by 10 - every time, without fail! The lenses I have (50, 80, 180) are heavy but really sharp and the metering prism is spot on, even though it makes the screen rather dark.
I had all those problems since I got the camera. Life wasn't going smooth, so I was shooting maybe 1 roll every 2 months. Eventually solve all my problems like this:
Not lining up parallel: remember what the had been said on the web? place it on you legs, have the camera in a vertical position, use your left hand on the shutter advance, and your right hand (finger) on the film? I also place my index finger on the take up spoon when advancing the paper leader, to keep the spoon resting on the botton of the chamber. Not easy, and do worry about the film getting loose, but it works (for me) :D
Overlapping frames: When you load the camera, keep you finger on the left spoon to keep the film tight, and try to roll an extra 35mm. Works well for me, but I am not greedy to try to get the 13th frame :D
I have two P6's upgraded to EX66 (by Pentacon), an Exakta 66 MK2, a K60, a cobra-covered 6c, and a Hartblei 1006 that takes Blad backs. Sold all my Russian lenses, excepting the 30. Have the CZJ 50, 80, 120, 180, 300, and 500. Great stuff for the money spent, can't think of any other system as comprehensive as this.
upgraded to EX66: same chassis and new exterior? Would love to have that. I know they do MLU, but are their services expensive(MLU, and the upgrade to EX66)?
Agree the lense are great for the money, if you can carry them. :D
The body is good (light and solid), if you can handle the problems relating to the film. Too bad, no MLU (I am spoiled) :D
I recently got a P6 TL with metered prism, then added a 50mm Flektogon.
Very pleased with the results, and the camera handles nicely. No problems with film spacing, and the metered prism seems accurate enough. I'll probably add a 120mm at some stage, but the wide angle was the main reason for buying it.
I've handheld it with the standard 80mm at 1/30s with problems, and done slow (1/5s to 8s) shots on a lightweight tripod. I haven't seen any problems with camera shake, although you can certainly feel the mirror when it starts its travel. You could carry the 50 and 80 around all day, but the longer lenses are definitely more of a challenge. Good for dangerous places though ;)
In spite of the falling prices for other MF gear, it's still probably the best value if you're more interested in wide angle lenses (either that, or the older Bronica EC/S2 range) or close ups.
Paul
Yes, the 80mm is nice and small, and I do take it out for snap shots. Brought a SLR hood for it last weekend, so I guess it can only get better...
The 180mm was bad on my lightweight tripot (190 PRO & 141 RC), 300mm was worst. Eventually an old Gitzo was passed down to me, the 180mm is now OK, but 300mm...
...and they weight 7kgs, that's why I sold it. (No car :bang)
Count me as a fan and user of the Kiev 60! I haven't shot mine much lately as I've been caught up in this 35mm RF thing...My second FSU camera buy was an Arax tweaked K-60 and I have been very happy with it. And most of the lenses I bought with it. The Mir 45mm is my only real dissapointment: I don't like the "look" of it and the lens itself just doesn't seem as robust as the others I have. Too bad as I do like the FOV of the 45mm length. Eventually I will get the Flektagon 50mm, but for now I've been concentrating on putting together a 35mm system.
I just checked and my K-60 is still on Arax's "special edition" page and HERE(click) (http://araxfoto.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=66). I thoroughly enjoyed dealing with Mr. Vartanyan! And the Camera is still the only SLR I own.
Rob
I got into all this from those modified Kievs. After returning to HK, eventually I saw a P6TL, the price was right... :D :D :D :D :D
Noticed the Arax 60 MLU a long time ago, would love to get my hands on one eventually...
Would love to try a 150mm f/2.8, really need something smaller then the 180mm Sonnar...
It's now on it's 3rd trip back to the repairer to try to solve...you've guessed it...overlapping frames. If you put a film through, fire the shutter on "B" and mark each frame through the gate, each frame is a perfect 1/4 inch from the last. Put a "real" film through it though and overlapping starts at frame 2, finally sorting itself out again by 10 - every time, without fail!
Mark,
There is a trick to solve the frame overlapping problem on P6s. Push down the shutter button and wind the film. When the winding lever reach the lower right corner of the camera (looking from the top) release the shutter button while finishing the advancing stroke. I use this trick on my P6s and never have overlapping problem. Hope this help. However, DON'T TRY THIS TRICK ON KIEV 60.
Jason.
Mark Wood
10-06-2005, 08:14
Will and Jason - many thanks for the advice. I'd seen the trick of holding the shutter button down whilst advancing the film but I haven't tried it yet. There's a great web site (http://www.pentaconsix.com/) with lens tests and most importantly, Ron Spillman's Amateur Photographer instructions for loading film. It works every time with the 6TL so there's clearly some problem with my 6. (The problem of frames not lining up with the film edge with the 6TL actually comes from a slightly bent film spool holder on the camera base but it's not really worth worrying about, it's just a minor irritation!)
The 6 is currently with the guys who were CZ Scientific, the former UK importers, so I'll see what they come up with.
I just find them rather nice cameras to use!
Daniel Unkefer
10-06-2005, 18:39
Mark,
Pentacon in Dresden modified both of my P6 cameras, adding EX66MK3 advance levers, mirror-lockup (which I never use, don't need it with the P6) clean lube adjust to factory specs. Yes they are expensive, two cameras overhauled cost close to 600US with shipping, but -way- less expensive than a used Exakta 66 MK3. BTW the cameras came with a warranty, which came in handy when I shipped them back for a pesky internal adjustment relating to the neckstrap stud. They even send me back a few free items, and paid the return shipping.
Mark,
Pentacon in Dresden modified both of my P6 cameras, adding EX66MK3 advance levers, mirror-lockup (which I never use, don't need it with the P6) clean lube adjust to factory specs. Yes they are expensive, two cameras overhauled cost close to 600US with shipping, but -way- less expensive than a used Exakta 66 MK3. BTW the cameras came with a warranty, which came in handy when I shipped them back for a pesky internal adjustment relating to the neckstrap stud. They even send me back a few free items, and paid the return shipping.
That's costly, but the cameras were sent back to the FACTORY...
mirror-lockup (which I never use, don't need it with the P6): what tripot head are you using? Will a desent ballhead 54mm in Diameter be enough?
Mark Wood
10-07-2005, 01:45
Many thanks for the information Daniel. As I'm in the UK, I guess shipping rates would bring the price down a little and it would be good to have the cameras upgraded while it's still possible. On the Pentacon/Praktica web site, they only mention servicing the 6TL and Exacta 66 so I don't know whether they'll still repair an older P6. They actually pointed me towards the company that currently has my camera for a Praktica-related question in the past which is why I approached them. There do appear to be some differences between the 6 and the 6TL in terms of the shutter/mirror mechanism but I don't know how similar their film transport systems are - very I suspect!
When that's sorted out it's on to sorting out yet another light leak from yet another Kiev 4a....
Daniel Unkefer
10-07-2005, 04:30
I normally use the large Bogen (manfrotto) #3047 three-way head. I have recently bought some parts for telescope building (clamping rings and dovetail clamp) and have sucessfully stabilized my 180, 300, and 500 CZJ's. The Pentacon body is difficult to attach to just about every tripod I own.
Regarding Pentacon Dresden repairing the early P6, I'd ask about it! I do know they said they could not repair my old model Praktisix 1 (no parts). If they will upgrade it, I'd say go for it! I've had my two cameras for three years without any problems (use the Baier-wind procedure). Never lost a frame, love the cameras, but yes, they are heavy!! BTW also have the Schneider 60, 80, 150, and 250 for the EX66.
I certainly like using my P6TL; not many lenses but a lens-hacker's dream. I also have the rarest version, the Praktisix IIA which was made for one year and in very poor shape, I have to think about getting it rebuilt by Pentacon as the two shutter roller spring rates cannot be matched, so new shutter needed.
BTW: good to see you here Walker!
Mark Wood
10-07-2005, 07:59
And then there are all of the adaptors (still made) that allow you to use the lenses on different cameras (Mamiya, Nikon, M-42...). The original Pentacon M-42 adaptor with semi-automatic diaphragm mechanism is a gem. Combine it with an M-42 to L-39 adapter (still made!) will allow you (should you be barking mad!) to put a 180/2.8 Sonnar on, say a Leica II, thus bringing the thread around to rangefinders!! Take it from me that this lens/camera combination looks very silly indeed.
I normally use the large Bogen (manfrotto) #3047 three-way head. I have recently bought some parts for telescope building (clamping rings and dovetail clamp) and have sucessfully stabilized my 180, 300, and 500 CZJ's. The Pentacon body is difficult to attach to just about every tripod I own.
Regarding Pentacon Dresden repairing the early P6, I'd ask about it! I do know they said they could not repair my old model Praktisix 1 (no parts). If they will upgrade it, I'd say go for it! I've had my two cameras for three years without any problems (use the Baier-wind procedure). Never lost a frame, love the cameras, but yes, they are heavy!! BTW also have the Schneider 60, 80, 150, and 250 for the EX66.
Daniel, any photos of your telescoping mounting set up?
Would like to do something like that..
And then there are all of the adaptors (still made) that allow you to use the lenses on different cameras (Mamiya, Nikon, M-42...). The original Pentacon M-42 adaptor with semi-automatic diaphragm mechanism is a gem. Combine it with an M-42 to L-39 adapter (still made!) will allow you (should you be barking mad!) to put a 180/2.8 Sonnar on, say a Leica II, thus bringing the thread around to rangefinders!! Take it from me that this lens/camera combination looks very silly indeed.
hahaha, I was thinking about that combination too. :D
Something like MTO 1100mm with a small-ish 135 SLR?
Mark Wood
10-07-2005, 09:24
The trouble is, when you have daft ideas like this, you remember that 180 mm Zeiss finders for the Contax do exist (I'd hate to think what they cost nowadays). If the finder could actually see over the top of the rather large diameter lens, I suppose it could work....hmm. The only trouble is, the P6 to M-42 adapter (the first of the two you need to add) isn't far off the size of the Leica II body in the first place! No, too silly...
The trouble is, when you have daft ideas like this, you remember that 180 mm Zeiss finders for the Contax do exist (I'd hate to think what they cost nowadays). If the finder could actually see over the top of the rather large diameter lens, I suppose it could work....hmm. The only trouble is, the P6 to M-42 adapter (the first of the two you need to add) isn't far off the size of the Leica II body in the first place! No, too silly...
Silly thoughts only...
Been using it on a Nikon F3. Still not easy without a tripot (i have small hands). Read once, that there are RF coupled verison (pre-war?) for the Contax RF...
Think the first post war verison (with leather) is smaller (77mm filter ring?). Any comments on those early post war lense (& Zebra SC) for B&W compare to the MC verison?
Here are a couple of pictures I took with my Kiev-60 and the 30mm Arsat WA lens with orange filter.
Walker
I have a Kiev 60 that was hot-rodded by Hartblei in 2002...works well and the Arsat 30mm fisheye is a hoot.
Would love to try the 30mm, but so far I only manage to find them in C mount & Non-SC in Hong Kong or Guangzhou (South China)... :bang:
Do the lense have automatic aparture?
Oh, anyone have experience on those Single Coat CZJ?
doubs, BTW very nice train shot, did you chopped the image?
darkkavenger
10-09-2005, 06:12
I got a P6TL with the 50mm Flektogon (SC), 80mm Biometar (MC), 180mm Sonnar (MC), 300mm Sonnar (MC). Sold the 50 & the 300, far too heavy without a car!
Got sick of the camera shaking on the tripot(300mm Sonnar), and started getting into 35mm RF. :D
How do you solve the problem of "not having MLU"?
I've got a PSix with WLF and TTL prism, 80mm biometar-III (on its way to Pentacon Dresden for service) and 180mm Sonnar, all operating in perfect conditions. I had a few troubles with frame overlapping so I sent the whole camera for service at Pentacon Dresden and had them to add the MLU function to the camera. It works perfectly! :D
I've got a PSix with WLF and TTL prism, 80mm biometar-III (on its way to Pentacon Dresden for service) and 180mm Sonnar, all operating in perfect conditions. I had a few troubles with frame overlapping so I sent the whole camera for service at Pentacon Dresden and had them to add the MLU function to the camera. It works perfectly! :D
Don't mean to sound rude, but how much did Pentacon charge you?
Would love to try the 30mm, but so far I only manage to find them in C mount & Non-SC in Hong Kong or Guangzhou (South China)... :bang:
Do the lense have automatic aparture?
Oh, anyone have experience on those Single Coat CZJ?
All the lenses I've seen thus far in P6 mount have auto aperture....I have the standard 80mm and the 30mm and both are auto aperture...I recall looking at a 50mm Flektogon and it had auto...ditto for a big 250mm. The Hartblei tilt/shift lenses are not auto aperture.
doubs, BTW very nice train shot, did you chopped the image?
Thanks, Will. Yes, I did crop the picture and I'm attaching an almost full-frame version for you to compare. This one has been cropped maybe 5%.
The Arsat 30mm in P-6 Mount is fully automatic. It comes with front & rear caps, a padded nylon carry case and four filters. If you're in the States, www.kievcamera.com sells it new for either $185 or $189 plus shipping. They're located in Atlanta, GA, and their service is pretty quick.
Here's a link to a page with the lens listed for sale:
http://stores.ebay.com/www-kievcamera-com_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQdptZ0QQftidZ2QQpZ3QQtZkm
Walker
Walker, was it shot on a 645?
Craig, any experience on those older Single Coat CZJ?
barnacle bill
10-11-2005, 11:03
I own P6s and K6s. Have had mixed results but prefer the feel and size of the P6. Just bought a MLU black K6 body only off ebay but yet to try it. Any thoughts on the MLU body?
darkkavenger
10-11-2005, 15:01
Don't mean to sound rude, but how much did Pentacon charge you?
I paid about 300 euros for the whole process, including transportation fees. They serviced the camera, the TTL prism (glass broken, a few troubles) frame overlapping, checked speeds, checked mirror and focusing screen (they could install a brighter one but I didn't need it so much, they can but a bright rollei one instead) and they were supposed to service also the 80/2.8 biometar but they forgot, so I'm sending it and they'll fix it when they receive it. They also fitted in the MLU function.
I could've paid just half of the price if it wasn't for the MLU option.
Daniel Unkefer
01-06-2006, 18:58
Here is the -ULTIMATE- P6 Camera :-)).
http://richardcarpenterphotography.com/miscpics/Kiev6C_cobra_the_beast.jpg
HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS:-)).
darkkavenger
01-07-2006, 03:13
uh oh ... it must be camouflaged, but not for use in temperated climates ;)
this thread reminds me I added a MC 50/4 CZJ Flektogon and a Meyer-Optik Görlitz 300/4.5 Telemegor to my P6 outfit ;)
smudwhisk
01-07-2006, 08:56
Here is the -ULTIMATE- P6 Camera :-)).
http://richardcarpenterphotography.com/miscpics/Kiev6C_cobra_the_beast.jpg
HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS:-)).
On a similar note:
http://www.kievaholic.com/
Daniel Unkefer
01-07-2006, 14:30
Yes, that red snake Kiev88 belongs to my forum friend, Kevin Ing.
He waited over a year to get that camera recovered by Cameraleather.com
Mike Kovacs
01-08-2006, 05:07
Yes, there are prewar Oympia 18cm/2.8 rangefinder-coupled Sonnars for Contax. To go with it are the torpedo finder for 18cm and a version of the turret finder with an 18cm setting. Leni Riefelstahl used one to photograph the 1936 Berlin Olympic games, an outstanding success photographically. It really was a long lens perspective not seen before at the time, unlike every Sports Illustrated photo taken these days.
Postwar, the 180/2.8 was offered with a reflex housing, which basically turns your rangefinder into a (slow and unwieldy) SLR.
To get back O/T ;), I now have a Praktisix II + 80/2.8 Biometar II that I have as a repair project, and a Pentacon Six TL + 80/2.8 Biometar MC IV lens that I just got on Friday. Bought a TTL prism too but it was apparently damaged in transport, so its being exchanged.
Haven't got any other lenses yet, or indeed shot these yet. Did also snap up a set of four auto Pentacon extension tubes, and ordered a replacement focusing screen that I will install.
Yes, there are prewar Oympia 18cm/2.8 rangefinder-coupled Sonnars for Contax. To go with it are the torpedo finder for 18cm and a version of the turret finder with an 18cm setting. Leni Riefelstahl used one to photograph the 1936 Berlin Olympic games, an outstanding success photographically. It really was a long lens perspective not seen before at the time, unlike every Sports Illustrated photo taken these days.
Postwar, the 180/2.8 was offered with a reflex housing, which basically turns your rangefinder into a (slow and unwieldy) SLR.
I think you can find a post war verison on one of cameraquest's page...
Saw a similar one in HK a few days ago, no reflex finder attached, but not sure is it a coupled one or a reflex housing one. Does anyone know what the coupled one look like?
Kevincameras used to have a 180 finder.
Cheers
Will
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