View Full Version : M Lenses on the X-Pro 1, a few results
willie_901
03-07-2012, 08:35
And so it begins...
HK Forum (http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=1119245&extra=page%3D1)
The adapter is a simple bayonet to bayonet hunk of metal. It seems focusing was done by eye using the LCD screen.
Benjamin Marks
03-07-2012, 09:16
Further down in the thread, a commenter points out how to use the focus-magnify function. I wish the pictures told you something though. . .
jsrockit
03-07-2012, 09:24
I have to admit that the camera looks at home with a short black M lens on it.
regularchickens
03-07-2012, 09:43
I can't wait to see this camera in the hands of people outside the usual early-adopter types taking the usual sorts of test photos.
goodtimes
03-07-2012, 09:49
Oh boy, I'm a little surprised by the shape of that camera. I was not really interested in the first place but I do not like it very much.
Just my personal opinion.
I'm soooo tempted by the Xpro1. I love my x100 for the most part, but this would be so great if focusing is easy enough. It does make the awesome ovf useless I would imagine.
Archiver
03-07-2012, 14:46
Looks like Kipon also make adapters to fit Contax G lenses to the X-Pro 1. Kipon keepin' on. :D
jsrockit
03-08-2012, 04:34
Looks like Kipon also make adapters to fit Contax G lenses to the X-Pro 1. Kipon keepin' on. :D
How does that work? Oh, I did my own research...the adpater has the focus ring. Kind of cool.
bobby_novatron
03-08-2012, 04:47
Until I see photos of cats and plain brick walls, I am not believing anything I see about this camera! ;)
No -- seriously, it would be nice to see some more stringent test photos. I am curious to see how the X-Pro 1 handles 3rd party lenses. Color-shift with wides ... issues with CA in high-contrast objects ... things like that. Would the X-Pro 1 have any built-in correction for 3rd party lenses? I doubt it.
At any rate, I'm way too tempted to get this camera. It would be nice to have a digital body for my Zeiss and Leica glass. The Fujinon lenses are probably superb on their own merit.
willie_901
03-08-2012, 06:59
. Color-shift with wides ... issues with CA in high-contrast objects ... things like that.
I sold all my M/LTM lenses and doubt I will ever buy another. So i realy don't care.
While the initial results are hardly stringent tests, the big surprise was the CV 15/4 exhibited no red shift.
cincyMAT
03-12-2012, 12:09
Here's another user with the Kipon adapter on the X1-Pro.
Photo's on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinson12/
Conversation at DPR:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=40884533
Seems to me he found the combination to work reasonably well. Basically he thought "practice makes perfect".
For once, I would love to see someone take "real" pictures. "Real" world usage. Pictures they are serious about, other then the usual test shots of inanimate objects and walls.
digitalintrigue
03-12-2012, 17:27
And then people would complain: where are the test shots of objects and brick walls? How can I tell anything from these artistic photos? ;)
digitalintrigue
03-12-2012, 17:33
I didn't see any test pictures of cats. Does this mean that the X-Pro1 does not have cat mode??
Jubb Jubb
03-12-2012, 17:53
Images look ok, they don't look as 3D or have the same dimension as what you get from the M8/M9.
The X-Pro 1 isn't for me, but I'm sure it's going to have a lot of sales.
Leica really need to come out with something to compete with Fuji.
Benjamin Marks
03-12-2012, 18:36
I have to say I was pretty impressed by the image from the 12mm C/V lens. No "dreaded corner red-shift." Hey, I know I'm a fan-boy of this stuff. But I'd expect the 12 to be the worst of the wides. Can't wait to slap a Zeiss 25/2.8 on a camera with the reported high-ISO performance of the X1 Pro. The "low light penalty" of the f:2.8 wides just went away!
aleksanderpolo
03-12-2012, 18:41
Lovely bokeh of the 35/1.2 Didn't notice Summilux ASPH has swirly bokeh before.
Jubb Jubb
03-12-2012, 21:01
Check out these comparisons of the Hyperprime 50mm 0.95 on both the X-Pro 1 and the M9. http://www.f8photography.com.hk/blog/2012/03/hyperprime1/
Seems there is some terrible fringe showing on the X-Pro 1 shots...
celluloidprop
03-12-2012, 21:13
I wish I could see the undefinable qualities (3d, 'dimension,' 'soul,' 'feel' etc.) that fans ascribe to Leica bodies and lenses.
Granted, I never did well with metaphysics - much less the metaphysics of inanimate objects.
Seems there is some terrible fringe showing on the X-Pro 1 shots...
Well the guy says he shoots raw with the m9 and processed the shots so who knows maybe he's corrected it?
Anyway velvia preset on human beings with a 0.95 and mixed coloured street lights is probably not the best idea :eek:
jsrockit
03-13-2012, 04:40
For once, I would love to see someone take "real" pictures. "Real" world usage. Pictures they are serious about, other then the usual test shots of inanimate objects and walls.
Give people some time... it is a brand new camera. Do you complete a body of significant serious work with a brand new camera within days of receiving it?
jsrockit
03-13-2012, 04:40
Seems there is some terrible fringe showing on the X-Pro 1 shots...
Happens with most ultrafast lenses on digital. The Noctilux will do this on the M9 as well.
digitalintrigue
03-13-2012, 04:52
"My main observation so far between the two has been colours….of course as stated before, its very difficult to compare RAW files with JPEGS…..so I’m not going to dwell on it just yet….more tests to come as soon as I can get RAW access from the Fuji.
You can clearly see from these samples that the colours on the Leica M9 are far better, much more natural and muted and representative of the natural light when out shooting, the Fuji images are excellent, just need the white balance tweaked for each one (I haven’t touched white balance on any of these samples)."
----
He's not going to dwell on color, but then he dwells on color...'the M9 is obviously better', because he's been able to tweak them.
If he really wanted to tweak the Fuji white balance, it's pretty simple to do that in SilkyPix.
And so it goes...
UPDATE: I made some comments about the white balance on the Fuji not being so great later in this post – I retract that statement as I had the camera set to VELVIA mode, so the colours are naturally boosted, making skintones much yellower than the M9…an unfair comparison, so please disregard anything about colours in the post for now, updated images coming soon with ASTIA/PROVIA film settings and RAW once available.
He has actually recently posted an update clarifying that right at the beginning of the article. Good for him, many would not have bothered.
digitalintrigue
03-13-2012, 05:28
Someone needs to tell him RAW is available. :)
The mere fact that someone out there has tried this with an adapter (even if it's the non-fuji adapter) and it seems to work fairly well gives me hope. The obvious comparisons to the M8/M9 will occur. I, personally, would prefer the Fuji if it works out to be decent :)
Cheers,
Dave
digitalintrigue
03-13-2012, 06:13
The X-Pro1 has a fantastic sensor, probably better than any full frame sensor available today. This may be enough reason to want to adapt various lenses to it, but the manual focus process is a bit tricky, and slow. If people want to use adapted wide angles with zone focus that is a different matter, but anyone who wants to use M lenses and thinks it will be easy to get pinpoint focus quickly are mistaken.
It's my recommendation that people should buy the Fuji lenses. They are superb, reasonably priced, well-built and have AF...which is how this camera is designed to be used.
Just my 2 dollars (inflation, ya know.)
Check this site for the review of the lenses:
http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital/camaras-de-telemetro-y-especiales/x-pro1-la-prueba-opticas.html
I wondered why Fujifilm opted for the modified Sonnar design for the 35/1.4; there must be a reason for it.
The 23/2 on the X100 is a stellar design though. (Disregard the numbers on the y-axis as the number of pixels are different than the X-Pro1)
http://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/pruebas-tecnicas/x100-rendimiento/2.html
The X-Pro1 has a fantastic sensor, probably better than any full frame sensor available today. This may be enough reason to want to adapt various lenses to it, but the manual focus process is a bit tricky, and slow. If people want to use adapted wide angles with zone focus that is a different matter, but anyone who wants to use M lenses and thinks it will be easy to get pinpoint focus quickly are mistaken.
It's my recommendation that people should buy the Fuji lenses. They are superb, reasonably priced, well-built and have AF...which is how this camera is designed to be used.
Just my 2 dollars (inflation, ya know.)
"Easy" is a matter of practice :)
Becoming accustomed to how a camera works - its quirks, its strengths, its weaknesses is all part of the learning process.
Part of the problem with "us" nowadays is no one wants to take the time to actually learn how to use the (or any) camera effectively and, inevitably, they write it off to "bad design", "lousy lenses" etc. etc. etc. We've all seen the posts in various fora in which it's claimed that "This would have been a great camera if only . . . . . (insert poster's dream of the perfect camera here)" - and all this happens before anyone has the camera in their HANDS !! :D
I'm willing to wait, see what the camera is like, try the Fuji M mount adapter and see how it performs with the M-Mount lenses. If it's reasonable to me, and I can make it work, for myself, then it'll be a successful camera in my books - internet prognosticators, pixel peepers, and fondlers be damned !! :D :D :D
Cheers,
Dave
jsrockit
03-13-2012, 06:56
We've all seen the posts in various fora in which it's claimed that "This would have been a great camera if only . . . . . (insert poster's dream of the perfect camera here)" - and all this happens before anyone has the camera in their HANDS !! :D
Yes, it is important to know what you want and concentrate on what a camera offers instead of what it does not. Perfect dream cameras do not exist.
The mere fact that someone out there has tried this with an adapter (even if it's the non-fuji adapter) and it seems to work fairly well gives me hope. The obvious comparisons to the M8/M9 will occur. I, personally, would prefer the Fuji if it works out to be decent :)
Cheers,
Dave
The X-Pro1 has a fantastic sensor, probably better than any full frame sensor available today. This may be enough reason to want to adapt various lenses to it, but the manual focus process is a bit tricky, and slow. If people want to use adapted wide angles with zone focus that is a different matter, but anyone who wants to use M lenses and thinks it will be easy to get pinpoint focus quickly are mistaken.
It's my recommendation that people should buy the Fuji lenses. They are superb, reasonably priced, well-built and have AF...which is how this camera is designed to be used.
Just my 2 dollars (inflation, ya know.)
The f8 reviewer had this to say, which I think the MF crowd would certainly find encouraging.
With the Fuji, there is no focus confirmation, but there is the zoom button which allows very easy focus confirmation at extreme magnification…if anything it zooms too much for my liking. Personally I found it a lot easier to use just the EVF (i normally hate EVF viewfinders) to focus it and found I could do it quickly and accurately most of the time, even wide open was easier than I thought….this gives a slight advantage over the M9, as with that of course it is always manual rangefinder focus with available light…which is fine during daylight, but much more difficult in low light, the EVF on the Fuji brightened up the scene and made it relatively simple to nail the focus.
Give people some time... it is a brand new camera. Do you complete a body of significant serious work with a brand new camera within days of receiving it?
No, but I take "serious" imagery with it. How much "time" does one need? Go out and shoot. Leave the brick walls for banging your head against.
Chill.
Yes, it is important to know what you want and concentrate on what a camera offers instead of what it does not. Perfect dream cameras do not exist.
LIES LIES LIES!!!
noimmunity
03-13-2012, 10:55
With the Fuji, there is no focus confirmation, but there is the zoom button which allows very easy focus confirmation at extreme magnification…if anything it zooms too much for my liking. Personally I found it a lot easier to use just the EVF (i normally hate EVF viewfinders) to focus it and found I could do it quickly and accurately most of the time, even wide open was easier than I thought….this gives a slight advantage over the M9, as with that of course it is always manual rangefinder focus with available light…which is fine during daylight, but much more difficult in low light, the EVF on the Fuji brightened up the scene and made it relatively simple to nail the focus. .
Isn't this basically what everybody has been saying about mirrorless cameras since the G1?
The Fuji lenses for this X-Pro1 system look excellent so far, with more to come.
jsrockit
03-13-2012, 11:08
No, but I take "serious" imagery with it. How much "time" does one need? Go out and shoot. Leave the brick walls for banging your head against.
Chill.
Well, I haven't seen any brick wall photos from the Fuji.
Sure, you CAN make great photos right away, but it is higly unlikely that you'll have a serious body of work within a week or two. There was the same complaint about the X100 when it came out... until time passed and people used it for serious work.
Well, I haven't seen any brick wall photos from the Fuji.
Sure, you CAN make great photos right away, but it is higly unlikely that you'll have a serious body of work within a week or two. There was the same complaint about the X100 when it came out... until time passed and people used it for serious work.
No one mentioned a body of work or great images but you. It would be interesting to see serious images, other then the usual crap - coffee mugs, walls (brick or otherwise). Real life, real situations. Whatever. Isn't that what people do? Not too hard really, to do from the get go.
jsrockit
03-13-2012, 11:32
No one mentioned a body of work or great images but you. It would be interesting to see serious images, other then the usual crap - coffee mugs, walls (brick or otherwise). Real life, real situations. Whatever. Isn't that what people do? Not too hard really, to do from the get go.
I agree with you. I'm sorry if it isn't coming off that way...but I'd rather see real life as well... and honestly, the blogs I've seen have done this somewhat. Not a lot of great photos yet, but certainly photos outside of tests if you look around.
N.delaRua
03-13-2012, 11:33
Here is the beginning of what appears to be a serious body of work with an X1 Pro in the studio and in the field with more to come....
http://zackarias.com/blog/
There is a couple of reasons why I want this camera and none of them are very technical. From what I have seen high iso and IQ is stellar, and the lenses are great no real need to sweat the technical mumbo jumbo. So no need to worry then, but what I really love is the user interface. Great JPEGs with a Quick menu, and OMG a shutter dial and aperture ring!!
Benjamin Marks
03-13-2012, 11:57
Here is the beginning of what appears to be a serious body of work with an X1 Pro in the studio and in the field with more to come....
http://zackarias.com/blog/
There is a couple of reasons why I want this camera and none of them are very technical.
Well those snaps are pretty freaking awesome. Sorry, let me mop up my drool. . . .My initial determination to wait a year and to maintain a stoic skepticism is crumbling. Think I'll go out with a 6x17 back attached to a Linhoff Tech IV and use it to pound tent pegs for a while . . . OK, all better. TMX100 stand development in Rodinal anyone?
Seriously though I really like the look of the snaps from this Fuji chip. It has the "clean" look I associate with my D3 and 105 DC lens.
digitalintrigue
03-13-2012, 12:01
Yes, the Fuji sensor is amazing. Well, at least it is in my opinion. ;)
So is the 105 DC, which you can use on the X-Pro1 with the Kipon adapter.
Well those snaps are pretty freaking awesome. Sorry, let me mop up my drool. . . .My initial determination to wait a year and to maintain a stoic skepticism is crumbling. Think I'll go out with a 6x17 back attached to a Linhoff Tech IV and use it to pound tent pegs for a while . . . OK, all better. TMX100 stand development in Rodinal anyone?
Seriously though I really like the look of the snaps from this Fuji chip. It has the "clean" look I associate with my D3 and 105 DC lens.
I concur...
Looks nice :)
Dave
f16sunshine
03-13-2012, 12:12
Is the camera in North America yet? Anyone know heard or know anything?
Is the camera in North America yet? Anyone know heard or know anything?
B&H has an "expected" date of March 28th.
I would say it's not going to be "widely available" till end of April. That's not an official statement or anything because, heck, I'm not an official anything... this is just a guess on my part :D
Cheers,
Dave
back alley
03-13-2012, 12:40
according to the local fuji rep, it will hit canada in april and in very small numbers...like 20 for the country!
Here is the beginning of what appears to be a serious body of work with an X1 Pro in the studio and in the field with more to come....
http://zackarias.com/blog/
There is a couple of reasons why I want this camera and none of them are very technical. From what I have seen high iso and IQ is stellar, and the lenses are great no real need to sweat the technical mumbo jumbo. So no need to worry then, but what I really love is the user interface. Great JPEGs with a Quick menu, and OMG a shutter dial and aperture ring!!
Now we are talking! A "real" situation in which the camera is being used as it should. This is the kind of "test" I think we all could appreciate!
I for one appreciate reviews from people who take the camera for a run and use it just like they would something else. Yes, I know, sometimes a coffee mug or brick can say a lot about a lot of things, but there is no substitution for jumping right in with both feet and getting them wet.
jsrockit
03-14-2012, 04:09
according to the local fuji rep, it will hit canada in april and in very small numbers...like 20 for the country!
Wow, that's pathetic if true.
It's a Kipon, not a Fuji adapter. Just saying.
______________________
Certainly, the Fuji M to X adapters (when Fuji gets around to releasing them) will be of a better quality than Kipon.
But, I'm still annoyed with Fuji for the goofy and proprietary +/- 39.5mm filter thread they saddled us with on the X10. :mad:
So, if Fuji unwisely creates their own unfilled market niche to be served by clone manufacturers, I'm fine with it.
Robt.
aleksanderpolo
03-23-2012, 10:23
CV 15/4.5, not mine:
http://picabroad.com/2012/03/22/fuji-x-pro-1-with-voigtlander-15mm-f4-5/
noimmunity
03-23-2012, 10:33
CV 15/4.5, not mine:
http://picabroad.com/2012/03/22/fuji-x-pro-1-with-voigtlander-15mm-f4-5/
shucks, seriously soft in the edges...
I'm still hoping the ZM 18 will be different.
WATE owners have reason to hope, too!
I've thrown 6 m-mount lenses (and the fuji 35mm 1.4) onto this camera.
Results are at http://picabroad.com/
I've thrown 6 m-mount lenses (and the fuji 35mm 1.4) onto this camera.
Results are at http://picabroad.com/
I hate to sound like a negative nancy, but I wouldn't be happy with those results. Not saying the pictures are bad, but the lenses are soft in the corners - like significantly softer than (for instance) a canon 5d with the oldest/cheapest/nastiest canon EF primes you can get, which again affirms my position that legacy lenses suck on mirrorless crop cameras.
The native XF fujinons wipe the floor with the legacy M mount lenses.
I agree...after this test (and assuming other adapters fare no better) I would not specifically get the X-Pro 1 for m glass.
However, this is not unexpected - I'm sure the X-pro lenses and sensors were primarily designed to work with each other and not legacy glass.
The ability to put m lenses on this camera is a pure bonus and the Fuji 35mm 1.4 clearly beats all the others in this test - in real life the sensor on this camera and the Fuji 35mm 1.4 are both spectacular (I haven't tried the others 18mm or 60mm yet) - on a par with a Leica set up in terms of final output quality.
I agree...after this test (and assuming other adapters fare no better) I would not specifically get the X-Pro 1 for m glass.
However, this is not unexpected - I'm sure the X-pro lenses and sensors were primarily designed to work with each other and not legacy glass.
The ability to put m lenses on this camera is a pure bonus and the Fuji 35mm 1.4 clearly beats all the others in this test - in real life the sensor on this camera and the Fuji 35mm 1.4 are both spectacular (I haven't tried the others 18mm or 60mm yet) - on a par with a Leica set up in terms of final output quality.
katrak, thank you for responding to my inquiry at dpreview, I replied to your thread there so let me comment the same here too :):
"Some important aspects are to observe here:
•
Fujifilm simply did not want to encounter with the provision of offset microlenses (due to any reason unknown to us so far) and chose to compensate for it through some very unconventional lens designs. Only some specifically designed wide angle lenses (shorter than 35mm) or -very certainly- retrofocals can function on this sensor with least issues.
•
The 35/1.4 lens is indeed a phenomenal design. The same can also be said for the existing 23/2 (on the X100) lens. Both exhibiting totally unconventional geometry employing oversize rear elements positioned very close to the sensor surface. Fuji equipped with extensive design experience from large and medium format lenses to studio TV-camera zooms down to miniature P&S zooms covering 30X (!)ratios deviced such unusual -and very challenging-approach to combat with the problems of oblique rays falling on the sensor.
•
IMHO, the shortcomings of this "approach" (no offset compensation) began to show its head with the 18/2; despite the similarly oversize rear element corner smearing and excessive CA around the outer field are disappointing. Pancake (or conventional) wide angle RF designs are rather for sensors already having provisions for oblique falling rays (offset microlenses, for instance.) It's for the same reason the NEX-7 failed while the 5N became highly popular; or for the same reason Zeiss had to introduce the 24/1.8 as being not a pancake (conventional RF) but as retrofocal (like SLR lens).
On your site I checked the Summicron 28, Summilux 35 and also the Summilux 50mm wide open as well as f8 edge & corner performances against those of the Fujifilm 35. No, the reference class lenses of the industry can not be that "bad", or the Fujifilm 35 can not be that much better than the best rangefinder lenses.. no way.. The Biogon 21 @f2.8 looked like as if made of cola bottle glass.
I am afraid that the owners of the X-Pro1 would rather have to stick to the lens offerings of Fujifilm rather than trying their chances with the existing M-mount wide angles. The retrofocals or some special designs (WATE comes to mind but irritatingly expensive) can be used with least or no issues on this camera...
So what to expect? The 35/1.4, 23/2 and 60/2.4 are already first-class lenses, on this sensor I doubt if one can find any better ones. The corner performance of the 35/1.4 is to die for.. Bokeh of these lenses is pleasing.. As for future I bet my hat that the 14/2.8 will come out as retrofocal design and I still believe that to introduce anything shorter than 23mm as "pancake" was a sort of mistake for a company like Fujifilm.. (Hah! the same mistake by Sony too, the 16/2.8 pancake that only few loves to eat..)"
Regards,
Bob
Steve M.
03-24-2012, 15:44
We have a cat if anyone wishes to come by and photograph her w/ their Fuji. She's loathe to sign a release though. Something about it "being a people and dog sort of thing". I'm no help w/ the brick wall though.
I think the potential problem with doing non-test-shots w/ a new camera or lens is that if you have a good subject and nail the metering, it's way too easy to overlook the test aspect of it all. I usually think "great shot" and forget all about sharpness/contrast/bokeh.
digitalintrigue
03-24-2012, 15:45
legacy lenses suck on mirrorless crop cameras.
If you are speaking of RF lenses, this is partially correct. Some of them do, some are fantastic, depends on their design and focal length. SLR lenses may be better options for adapting.
legacy lenses suck on mirrorless crop cameras.
Well... not all. There are plenty of terrific rangefinder lenses that draw very well on the Leica M8 and Ricoh GXR, which proves it can be done and Ricoh proves it can be done at modest cost. Are there any bad lenses on the GXR?
The Fujifilm X-Pro 1 to my eye looks to treat RF lenses worse than the NEX-7 does in the least able pairing of that camera and lens. That makes one wonder why Fujifilm decided to announce a M adapter in the first place.
willie_901
03-26-2012, 05:59
http://www.flickr.com/groups/xpro/discuss/72157629299261806/
This link loads a well-written description of methods for manual focusing adapted and XF lenses on the XP1. I don't think the author owns any M lenses, but I found the this interesting and useful.
i'm just surprised that the edges are that smeared when it's a crop sensor (thus not even the full imaging circle that the lens was designed to put out is being used).
not that that's pathetic, but i do find it rather surprising. good for fuji though for designing something so well that their own products are excellent and even well-known excellent products produce mediocre results. crafty devils, haha :).
i'd love to screw around with one for a week or so, but i've been shooting more and more film, and besides, it's tough to beat an M for tactile pleasure (though it can be done).
digitalintrigue
03-31-2012, 05:46
Not surprising at all. This is nothing new: it's been known for several years that RF lenses on mirrorless cameras (with crop sensors) can create light rays that hit the sensor at oblique angles.
rbelyell
03-31-2012, 06:07
i do not have an extensive collection of RF lenses: cv 25/4, cron- 40/2, summarit 50/1.4, cv 75/2.5, elmar 90/4, hektar and sonnar 135/4, but i am extremely impressed by how all of them work on my m4/3 ep2. frankly, having had a 5d used with zeiss contax lenses, and at iso up to 400, i am not in the least disappointed by what i get from my RF collection and 2x crop m4/3 sensor. the 'cron 40 and cv 75 are in fact absolutely stunning, whilst, within iso limitations, the rest as good as any other combination ive used on film or FF. i'm not sure why this should be the case on one 'crop' sensor vs another crop sensor...?
<snip>I think the potential problem with doing non-test-shots w/ a new camera or lens is that if you have a good subject and nail the metering, it's way too easy to overlook the test aspect of it all. I usually think "great shot" and forget all about sharpness/contrast/bokeh.</snip>
THIS!!
(isn't that what the kids say these days?) :)
Cheers,
Dave
If you are speaking of RF lenses, this is partially correct. Some of them do, some are fantastic, depends on their design and focal length. SLR lenses may be better options for adapting.
There might be some truth to this. I just tried my Minolta 50mm f1.7, very sharp. While, I tried my voigtlander 40mm f1.4 M-mount, and Konica Hexanon 90mm M-mount both came up bit soft.
Gonna try a Nikon 50mm f1.2 when I get the appropriate adapter.
Will report back then.
noimmunity
04-01-2012, 01:20
If you are speaking of RF lenses, this is partially correct. Some of them do, some are fantastic, depends on their design and focal length. SLR lenses may be better options for adapting.
I think I cannot resist getting the C/Y adapter for the XP1.
icaro2007
04-01-2012, 01:44
I have tried myself but at this point in time the Fuji X-Pro 1 is not the best available solution for legacy lenses for at lest two reasons:
-inadequate manual focus assistance which is applicable to any focal length but might be corrected with future firmware.
-substandard performances with most WA due to the absence of ad hoc designed microlenses.
SRL lenses perform better but in genera they are too bulky to be considered an ideal solution for this camera.
Having said that the X-Pro 1 is an excellent performer when equipped with its own lenses.
Ario
ninetwentynine
04-01-2012, 20:01
maybe fuji will put out some sort of manual focus assistance in a new firmware update by the time their own M mount adapter comes out ;)
i was flirting with just going all alt lenses, but after what i've read and seen— guess i'll just play with the native fuji 35mm until i see something better.
i am not in the least disappointed by what i get from my RF collection and 2x crop m4/3 sensor. the 'cron 40 and cv 75 are in fact absolutely stunning, whilst, within iso limitations, the rest as good as any other combination ive used on film or FF. i'm not sure why this should be the case on one 'crop' sensor vs another crop sensor...?
Don't forget that on m4/3 - 4/3 period your full frame rangefinder lenses are not having to work too hard... much of the smeared area on an APS-C crop camera will naturally fall outside the image circle covering the m4/3 sensor.
In addition, there is significant variation in how well RF lenses work, camera to camera, because at the company and even model level the sensor implementations vary greatly. Two manufacturers may source the same basic sensor from Sony et al but add different filter packs etc, and certainly when the sensor is different you are going to see different response. The NEX-5N for example is generally more kind to RF lenses than the NEX-7.
Zeiss seems to lay a lot of the blame on anti-alias filters; according to one of their white papers the oblique angle at which light hits the edge area of the anti-alias filter fronting the sensor essentially results in astigmatism. My right astigmatic eye concurs!
That's not to say that a lack of an AA filter is a cure all - look at the X Pro 1 as a case study here where what is apparently a rather thick glass filter (not AA) fronting the sensor seems to be causing the grief with RF lenses. Their own lens design uses larger rear elements to reduce the angle of incidence and thus minimize the problem... and coincidentally and maybe not accidentally reduce the threat of competition from alt-glass providers new and used.
What we do know from the Leica M8, Leica M9, and Ricoh GXR Mount cameras is that it is possible to develop full frame and crop cameras that allow rangefinder lenses to perform free-enough from edge smearing. Ricoh proved it is even possible to produce such good performing cameras for RF lenses without extraordinary expense and that may bode well for the future. None of these cameras have anti-alias filters, probably not coincidentally.
icaro2007
04-01-2012, 21:26
A clear explanation of the problem can be found here:http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/en_CLB41_Nasse_LensNames_Distagon.pdf
Ario
I take it back, once I stopped my voigtlander 40mm f1.4 to f2, quite sharp.
The edge thing, I am not so sure. I tried to put something at the edge of my shot, then tried to focus on it, and I have gotten very sharp results.
Just got the Kipon adapter and put it on the X-Pro1 - to me, for longer lenses such as the 50mm lux (or elmarit) and the 90mm summicron (and I would assume the 75mm summicron or summilux) this is a "no brainer" imho. It's not that difficult to focus (for me mind you - I learned on an old Pentax SL which had a really bad screen and my eyesight is *touch wood* quite good) the lenses on this body. I'm pretty pleased but wonder what, unless they're tightening up tolerances, will or can Fuji do to THEIR adapter to make it "better" or more "in tune" with the camera/lenses.....
Cheers,
Dave
aleksanderpolo
04-03-2012, 12:56
The ability to read 6 bit code and set the frameline in OVF accordingly (and disallow third party adapter to do so), and sell the adapter for $599. :)
Dave, do you see any unusual smearing on the 50 by the way?
Here's a shot (larger on my Flickr) with the 50mm Summilux @ f1.4. So basically the Fuji X-Pro1, Leica Summilux pre-ASPH @ f1.4, Nikon SB900 in Auto Thyristor mode and Kipon adapter at 1/125. A real "frankenstein" set up (good looking Frankenstein mind you... :D):
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5320/6897349340_58348ffde1_c.jpg
I keep looking for "smearing" but meh - I can't tell what's "smearing" and what's bokeh at f1.4 - maybe if I stop down to like f11 or something? - then again, I rarely shoot my lenses at f11 or f16..
Cheers,
Dave
maybe if I stop down to like f11 or something?
Stop down a 50lux :eek:
Isnt that the equivalent of killing a kitten or something?
The photo looks *very* good to me (awesome doggy too) :)
The ability to read 6 bit code and set the frameline in OVF accordingly (and disallow third party adapter to do so), and sell the adapter for $599. :)
and a cam that will read focus distance and adjust said framelines for parallax
$999 :D
The image quality with M lenses seems quite ok to my eyes, how is the handling?
Handling of the 50' Lux, the 90 Cron (I shot a few with that lens too) and the 50 Summarit was all very natural. The only thing that's missing in the viewfinder is the RF patch (or at least to me that's the only thing missing).
If you focus manually using the Fujinon XF lenses and then switch to just about any M-mount lens (regardless of brand) you tend to "forget" that the focus throw is a LOT shorter than manual focusing with the Fujinon XF lenses *LOL* If you have the camera with the 35mm f1.4 Fuji lens, give it a go with manual focus, especially if you're closer than the minimal focus distance (which can be done by using the EVF) - the throw is ridiculously long but you can get accustomed to it because there's a distance scale in the viewfinder (EVF).
Cheers,
Dave
danielschwartzkopf
04-03-2012, 18:51
The ability to read 6 bit code and set the frameline in OVF accordingly (and disallow third party adapter to do so), and sell the adapter for $599. :)
Dave, do you see any unusual smearing on the 50 by the way?
I've assumed that the whole "6-bit code" thing fell under some Leica patent, as well as the ability for a camera to read said code (which is why Zeiss or CV lenses don't ship with codes bored in to the mounting plate). Of course, licensing the "read" portion of the 6-bit code system might make sense since the mount will undoubtedly sell more leica glass and the competitors don't have the ability to "build in" the codes...
just thinking out loud...
Thanks Dave. Btw love your pet, one of my favorite dogs.
Gary
Damn, now I need a silver XPRO1, to match my L lenses.
Thanks for that, it's really useful. What about shutter lag? I read somewhere that even with a non-Fuji lens mounted, there's a lag in the pre-release (when an AF lens would be doing its autofocus thing). Is that really true?
Benjamin Marks
04-04-2012, 07:39
Dave: I traveled over to your flickr pix and I have to say, I am impressed. I liked the image of your friend done in B&W too. I was under the impression that the "smearing" was worse with ultra wides with the X1 Pro, but I think if there is nothing much to smear e.g. you are looking at an OOF area anyway, whatever optical effect there was of the lens-sensor combination would be obscured by choice and placement of subject. Have you tried the camera with any non Fuji lens wider than your 50? Because of the crop factor, if (when) I get this camera, my lenses of choice would be between 15 and 28.
BTW I do understand that one could crop away this problem and wind up with a m-4/3 imaging area that still had good high ISO performance, but I generally like all the imaging "real estate" I can get my hands on.
Thanks for the post, BTW. Very helpful to those of us waiting in the wings.
Wintoid - regarding "shutter lag" - I personally don't see any - and that's with the M lens mounted and manual focusing turned on. It's really a no brainer - and IF there's any shutter lag, it's going to be a "tough" call to make because, unless you're used to something that is absolutely instant, EVERY camera has some shutter lag - this camera is no different, imho, than my M7's or any other M I've used. Your mileage may vary in this aspect however - try it out, if you can, and see.. I'm sure it's not as bad as others have claimed or as others may have been led to believe. :)
Ben - I don't have any ultra wides - the widest I have is the Zeiss 25mm (sharp bugger too :D) - I just shot four quick photos and have uploaded them to Flickr as an example for anyone looking to see "smearing" at various f stops - f2.8 through to f8 at ISO800 are shown. I personally don't not much "smear creep" on this lens. I do not have the CV 15mm anymore but may be able to borrow one to shoot with it to see... regardless, as you said, if you're shooting wide open, there's very little to smear and as I have said, it really depends on the end user and how/if they feel that the corners are an issue for them. IF the X-Pro1 were a full frame camera, this "smearing" may be more evident (at least that's my theory anyway) but as of right now, I'm freaking happy with the results of the M lenses on the camera. The 25mm is as close as i can currently get to a "35mm" field of view (that being about 37-38mm I guess due to cropping).
I just wonder what Fuji will do when they release their adapter - that is, what will be 'different' about it compared to this Kipon third party adapter.
Cheers,
Dave
For those that don't want to go to my Flickr - here's some results at 800px -
f2.8
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5312/7045272367_d5f4c63770_c.jpg
f4
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5035/6899179230_855b9242fd_c.jpg
f5.6
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/6899179740_2c548fd570_c.jpg
f8
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5441/7045273973_ea8b789d62_c.jpg
Cheers,
Dave
Benjamin Marks
04-04-2012, 09:25
Now that is interesting Dave. With the 25, I can definitely see "something" going on in the lower corners of the image at f:2.8. But I had to look at the "original size" image on flickr to see it. The issue seems considerably resolved by f:8. So I guess the question is: does it matter? For me: no. I don't think that the corner issue identified is likely to pose a problem for my photography. Thanks for posting those.
Ben
bobby_novatron
04-04-2012, 10:15
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9375/screenshot20120404at121.png
hehe.. how can you NOT love Bronze Elvis :)
Dave
bobby_novatron
04-04-2012, 10:35
Glad you liked it, Dave. :)
Thanks again for posting your test shots and reporting back with your X-Pro1 experiences ... there's many of us here (myself included) that are very interested in jumping in and purchasing this particular camera. Your feedback has been very valuable.
Glad you liked it, Dave. :)
Thanks again for posting your test shots and reporting back with your X-Pro1 experiences ... there's many of us here (myself included) that are very interested in jumping in and purchasing this particular camera. Your feedback has been very valuable.
You're welcome :)
I just dropped a couple more up there using "outdoor"/"real world" samples.
Cheers,
Dave
bobby_novatron
04-04-2012, 11:26
BTW, an announcement for Canadians:
When I checked the Vistek website last night, there were a few X-Pro1's available in Canada ... Toronto and Ottawa locations, I think. Just a couple clicks away, and you can buy one through the website.
For those of us outside of those two cities, I think shipping is pretty simple.
Nikon Bob
04-04-2012, 12:21
Our local camera store has one or two also, so they are out there now in Canada.
Bob
JHutchins
04-04-2012, 16:30
Now that is interesting Dave. With the 25, I can definitely see "something" going on in the lower corners of the image at f:2.8. But I had to look at the "original size" image on flickr to see it. The issue seems considerably resolved by f:8. So I guess the question is: does it matter? For me: no. I don't think that the corner issue identified is likely to pose a problem for my photography. Thanks for posting those.
Ben
I'm not sure I can see anything going on there that I didn't also see going on when I used that lens on my M8. I haven't tried it on my Fuji yet as the lens is loaned out, but I will at some point soon. I can tell you that I've used a 50 summicron DR and seen absolutely nothing that is inconsistent with that lens's performance on my M8. Which would be unsurprsing except that the test pictures everyone's talking about (vines against the stone wall) made the 50 lux look bad as well.
And at this point I'm still a bit of a smearing skeptic. I agree that the corners in those viney wall shots looked terrible, but I really couldn't get a sense from them of how much of that terrible was wind blur (some of it unquestionably is) how much of it is due to a focus point that seems a bit in front of the wall and in the viney area, how much of it is due to the camera being canted so the sensor isn't parallel to the wall &c. I've just not seen much using wide M lenses other than those photos where the corners are even potentialy in the plane of sharp focus; and those wall photos are a bit problematic.
Noctilux, via fujix forum
http://www.flickr.com/photos/micheledesilvestro/7045329383/in/photostream
Has anyone tried any of the SLR adapters? I'm tempted by the Kipon OM adapter so I can uses my Zuikos on the X-Pro. Would using retrofocus SLR wideangles be a better solution to avoid smearing etc. than rangefinder lenses? Thoughts appreciated as I'm a legacy lens novice!
Would using retrofocus SLR wideangles be a better solution to avoid smearing etc. than rangefinder lenses?
Probably, but still under investigation :)
It looks like it depends on each individual lens design.
chris00nj
04-07-2012, 18:33
I've started a Flickr group "LTM and M mount lenses on the X Pro-1 (http://www.flickr.com/groups/1931560@N21/)"
Join and post!
I put my Nikon 14-24 f2.8 AFS lens on the Kipon adapter, after jamming the aperture lever open:
http://hemingway.cs.washington.edu/posts/XPro1/Nikon%2014-24%20f2.8-1-s.jpg
Unfortunately this combination is rather heavy... ;)
Full-size here (http://hemingway.cs.washington.edu/posts/XPro1/Nikon%2014-24%20f2.8-1.jpg).
What are your setting for using Leica lens?
I can't seem to get any metering or any other control. More or less shot and adjust / repeat to find the right setting.
Jamie Pillers
04-07-2012, 23:56
In the hand, its quite another matter. I held one a couple of days ago and it 'falls to hand' perfectly. Great balance, light weight, the best viewfinder I've looked through in ages... feels like a no-frills photo machine ready to rumble! :-)
Only workable shot I could get out of using 50 lux. After 20 frames of unusable.
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z448/streamhub/S0010064.jpg
digitalintrigue
04-09-2012, 11:49
What are your setting for using Leica lens?
I can't seem to get any metering or any other control. More or less shot and adjust / repeat to find the right setting.
Aperture priority, shoot without lens, set ISO, focus, shoot...
Aperture priority, shoot without lens, set ISO, focus, shoot...
Are you getting accurate metering from what you see on EVF?
My issues are:
- no metering indication (I see the metering bar but nothing moving)
- what ever I see on EVF does not come close to picture taken.
What are your setting for using Leica lens?
I can't seem to get any metering or any other control. More or less shot and adjust / repeat to find the right setting.
"Manual Focus" = on
"Focal Length Setting" = lens focal length mounted
"Shoot Without Lens" = on
using the EVF and if I have the 50mm lux on the camera and 50mm used in the "Focal Length Setting" then I get exactly what I see in the viewfinder EVF. The OVF is useless for framing at the current time with the Kipon adapter.
Regarding metering - the bar at the side of the viewfinder shows your exposure comp - it will not move. If you're shooting in Aperture priority then the shutter speed in the lower left hand side of the viewfinder does move depending on what the exposure is.
Cheers,
Dave
Thanks again Dave
I will try this again tonight.
"Manual Focus" = on
"Focal Length Setting" = lens focal length mounted
"Shoot Without Lens" = on
using the EVF and if I have the 50mm lux on the camera and 50mm used in the "Focal Length Setting" then I get exactly what I see in the viewfinder EVF. The OVF is useless for framing at the current time with the Kipon adapter.
Regarding metering - the bar at the side of the viewfinder shows your exposure comp - it will not move. If you're shooting in Aperture priority then the shutter speed in the lower left hand side of the viewfinder does move depending on what the exposure is.
Cheers,
Dave
I just want to clarify, IF you are in Aperture priority mode, with the shutter dial set to A, the meter on the left hand side DOES NOT move. Like Dave said, it shows you your exposure compensation.
If you are setting aperture, shutter and iso manually, the meter does indeed move with change of settings.
I just want to clarify, IF you are in Aperture priority mode, with the shutter dial set to A, the meter on the left hand side DOES NOT move. Like Dave said, it shows you your exposure compensation.
If you are setting aperture, shutter and iso manually, the meter does indeed move with change of settings.
Ya that's right!!.. thanks for the correction on that - I'm almost always shooting in aperture priority merely because I do so with my M7's.. force of habit :D
I think I've shot manually a handful of times (maybe 10?) :)
Cheers,
Dave
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.