Fuji X Pro-1, Who's Buying?

[chris00nj]

I am curious to see how interested people are and how it compares to interest in the OMD (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115844).

For me, I've pre-ordered and impatient.

[rover]

I will go with the XPro or OMD, haven't decided yet. I have sold my DSLR and lens kit though, so I am primed to get one of these two.

[celluloidprop]

I'm pretty well set on an XPro over the OM-D. I'm on a local waiting list, but I'll likely hold off until stock is steady and LR3 supports the camera.

[Eric T]

I have the X-Pro 1 on order but I am concerned about image sharpness. Any views on that? The images I have seen online look a little soft.

[celluloidprop]

I've only seen one set that looked soft, and that appears to be a combination of zero sharpness in the jpeg settings and a lot of blown focus.

The 35/1.4 appears to be tack sharp and the 18/2 sharper than I expected. The latter was what had me nervous (why buy into a new system without a usable wide angle for now?), but the 18mm looks good.

[scottwallick]

I'm in. Very pleased with the X100.

[Richard G]

Pleased with X100.
Dismissed already the OM-D just looking at it. And wouldn't 4/3 after experiencing APS-C.
Only some major misconception of the aperture stop down mechanism and viewfinder brightness consequence and how that is handled would put me off. Hard to see them buggering up anything, actually. Won't bother with adapters: 28, 50, 90 are ideal for me. Might as well pre-order, but I'll just have a look and consult my advisers.

[Benjamin Marks]

Will wait to see how initial units test; also interested in the M-adapter. But if these things check out, I am in. Love the high ISO samples I have seen so far.

Ben Marks

[back alley]

i am very interested in the xpro but can't really afford it without selling my current kit...and i'm not sure about doing that.

[Talex]

I got my preorder on Amazon, hoping it would arrive before I leave for vacation on Mar 23. I love my D700 and its high-ISO capabilities for travel, but I wouldn't mind a lighter package with similar high-ISO quality. And once the M-adaptor is available, I'm definitely getting that.

[kuzano]

But the OM-D (EM5) came out just in time to prevent me from following the masses.

I have been a strong advocate of both Fuji(ca) and Olympus for many many years, but I am a little shocked by Fuji's overpricing strategy beginning with the GF670 folder. Am I missing something. It appears to me the Olympus models offer a an overall better feature set than the Fuji's for less money. And the lesser price is NOT a reflection of lesser quality, in my opinion.

I did not expect the retro look of the OM-D, but I have been waiting for these specs for a while. The fact that is looks like my old OM camera's and is only 1 centimeter less in length than the original OM-1 is a nice touch for me.

[celluloidprop]

The GF670 is only $1700 new. That seems reasonable for a niche rangefinder with lens included. The XP1 and 35/1.4 costs the same amount as a NEX-7/24mm combo and you get a unique OVF to boot.

The products are expensive, no doubt, but I don't see them as out of line.

The OM-D has a smaller sensor and no OVF. It's also taking some flak for being twice the price of a very similar Panny G3.

[brachal]

I've ordered one. I have been very happy with my X100, so adding the X Pro doesn't feel like much of a risk.

[tbarker13]

pre-ordered and waiting anxiously.

[NLewis]

I think Fuji's pricing is aggressive, but so are a lot of other camera makers'. The GF670's pricing is keyed off the used prices for Plaubel Makina 67s. I'm not in the market for a Makina 67, but if I was, I'd buy the Fuji brand new rather than spending $1400 for a 25-year-old camera.

[merciless49]

I pre-ordered, but may not go through with it depending on the samples that i see. X-100 may be just as good for me.

[TechCron]

I'll wait to see reviews http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/38/b/happy.gif

[bhop73]

I'd be more interested, but i'm worried the focus system will be like the X100s.. which isn't bad, but isn't great in a lot of situations. I know mine frustrates me sometimes and has made me curse on many occasions.

[DanT]

There was a demo model at the local Kitamura, I'd love to get one but the price is just too high for me at the moment.

[Paul T.]

I really like it. But I've made a decision to spend the next year using my Hexar AF; if I process and scan that will be less than the depreciation on a digital. And I want to see some good options introduced for MF, so it's as practical as the Ricoh, and see how good the AF is in practice.

Yet I like the look of Fuji lenses and suspect it's only a matter of time.

[red snapper]

If and when they make a full frame M-Mount version with coupled rangefinder. That would be worth trading my Leica film cameras for.

[nighstar]

seems like a nice camera, but it's not for me. not right now anyway.

[jippiejee]

I want to see reviews on how it handles (and especially focuses) m-mount glass first. And seeing how Fuji deals with bug reports. thought them quite arrogant towards their customers in the past.

[Paul T.]

If and when they make a full frame M-Mount version with coupled rangefinder. That would be worth trading my Leica film cameras for.

So you want them to produce the M9. I'm sure they'll leap at the chance.

[back alley]

i don't care about manual focus or m mount lenses...

as long as the af is as good as on the x100 i would be happy.

[kshapero]

i am very interested in the xpro but can't really afford it without selling my current kit...and i'm not sure about doing that.I am in the same boat here.I think I will wait until others are actually using it. Selling gear would be required and I guess I will wait and see.

[j.scooter]

I am getting one.
Impatiently waiting. lol

[whtchocla7e]

i don't care about manual focus

This statement echoes Fuji's own attitude toward manual focus.. The rest of this post is not directed at the author though. Just my own rant.

retro looks
aperture ring
shutter speed dial
OVF
fixed lens

Ok, so far this sounds very much like an old school camera...

piss-poor manual focus

Hmm... :confused:

If they were aiming to recreate the shooting experience of even an average manual camera - they've failed badly.. :bang:

I have this uneasy feeling that sometime in the future, there won't even be any cameras with MF... But hey, dumb AF knows better what I want to focus on than I know myself. The future is bright.

[back alley]

on my nikon d90, i can set the af area i want, same with the spot meter...this is ideal for me as it focusses exactly where i want.

if the fuji did that as well...

[gavinlg]

This statement echoes Fuji's own attitude toward manual focus.. The rest of this post is not directed at the author though. Just my own rant.

retro looks
aperture ring
shutter speed dial
OVF
fixed lens

Ok, so far this sounds very much like an old school camera...

piss-poor manual focus

Hmm... :confused:

If they were aiming to recreate the shooting experience of even an average manual camera - they've failed badly.. :bang:

I have this uneasy feeling that sometime in the future, there won't even be any cameras with MF... But hey, dumb AF knows better what I want to focus on than I know myself. The future is bright.

on my nikon d90, i can set the af area i want, same with the spot meter...this is ideal for me as it focusses exactly where i want.

if the fuji did that as well...

It's a single center spot focussing point. Same as the x100. Which is the best kind - an AF version of an RF patch.

[tbarker13]

I just wish it would allow some sort of back-button focusing method. Then I'd be in heaven.

[clicker]

I canceled my order, thinking it wise to wait and see how it shakes out.

[bwcolor]

I'm not anxious, but canceling means paying an extra $250 for the lenses. Just got the NEX-7 and mixed feelings..great video. Love my X100 and that is why I don't mind waiting...decisions.

[gavinlg]

I just wish it would allow some sort of back-button focusing method. Then I'd be in heaven.

It does - AF-L button on the back. Same as the x100.

[tbarker13]

It does - AF-L button on the back. Same as the x100.

Then I'll be in heaven.

[kuzano]

My pricing comment on the Fuji GF670, was not based on street prices which "may" be found at the current time. When the GF670 came out, the original pricing was $2400, and remained that way for some time. It's certainly to be expected that street price would bring that down, and not surprised if it can be found for $1700. I think that the comment about a $1300 price has to be referencing a "used" model... certainly not new from a retailer.

Then the wide version comes out and WHAT? Fuji takes out the bellows, strut assembly, and folding front standard, and introduces it for almost $1000 more than the original GF670. Hmmm? Hence my confusion about Fuji taking considerable advantage of the fact they are the only contender intro'ing a new film medium format in many years.

Likewise, I think the price they are asking for a fixed lens pseudo range finder is also above reasonable. The point of them issuing a similar second offering plays to the comment "Fool me once, shame on you..... Fool me twice, shame on me..."

[willie_901]

I placed a pre-order for the X Pro-1 at my local camera shop 5 weeks ago. I'm just ordering the 35/1.4 lens for now. I was pleased to read recent reports that the camera feels light. Occasionally I'll carry the X100 and the XP1 together, so light is good. I will keep the X100 for quite a while as I like to have a back up camera suitable for everyday use. Also I find the X100 to be invisible, so it may be better in situations where the XP1 might appear too serious.

I also find using the X100 AF manually is quite similar in process to using an analog RF patch. The lack of true MF in Fuji's design for the X series lenses does not bother me. The MF situation may change when the M adaptor is released. Or, it may not. Since I don't own any M lenses, I don't worry about that.

I tried m4/3 for a year and the raw files just didn't have the quality I found in my Nikon APS-C raw files. I feel the X100 raw files out shine the Nikon's (D300). The DxO data confirms my qualitative conclusions. So, the OM-D is of no interest to me. It looks like it will be a tough little body though. I can see how others will embrace the Oly system.

[willie_901]

Then I'll be in heaven.

On the X100 the back-button focus is only available in MF mode. Once the camera locks focus during a button press, focus will not change unless you turn the lens collar or press the button again. This method works well in EVF mode because the focus box can be set to a very small area. This means it is easy to know exactly where the focus point is and it is also easy to find a high contrast object for focus in low light. Also, focus lock confirmation is more obvious in EVF mode. Once focus is set a quick press of the EVF/OVF switch puts you in OVF mode.

I often focus in EVF and recompose and press the shutter in OVF.

[fearofhummingbird]

On the X100 the back-button focus is only available in MF mode. Once the camera locks focus during a button press, focus will not change unless you turn the lens collar or press the button again. This method works well in EVF mode because the focus box can be set to a very small area. This means it is easy to know exactly where the focus point is and it is also easy to find a high contrast object for focus in low light. Also, focus lock confirmation is more obvious in EVF mode. Once focus is set a quick press of the EVF/OVF switch puts you in OVF mode.

I often focus in EVF and recompose and press the shutter in OVF.

Actually I use the AF-L button all the time in AF-S mode. I have it set to focus lock only and also set to toggle on/off with presses of the button. I will focus with a half press of the shutter, get the green box confirmation, then if I wish to hold the focus for multiple shots I press the button once. From then on focus is held and the focus box remains green. This is a great way to set up temporary zone focusing by the way. Then, another click of the button and lock is released.

[maggieo]

It took me two years to get an X100, which I'm now loving, so I figure it'll take me a year or so to actually consider an X Pro-1. I still have my M8, but its sensor is terrible over ISO 320 anymore, so I might wind up going for the big Fuji...

[kxl]

Haven't gotten my money's worth from my NEX5 yet, so eyeing a new digi body, especially a new mount, is a bit premature for me.

[JasperD]

The poll is not quite correct, as the only certainty is provided by answer 1: pre-ordered. For those not having that opportunity, all other answers carry doubt. So I cannot answer this one... :bang:
However, just for the record, I´ll get one for sure as soon as a shop over here carries it, don´t need to test, just see it´s functional. :)

[flip]

I just checked one out a Yodobashi Camera in Osaka. Feels nice enough in the hands. It kinda threw me when flicking on to off takes you from a digital view to a (somewhat broader) clear view through the finder. I was unable to test out with lenses other than the 35 though it might have been nice. The EVF isn't my thing, but I only had a few minutes with it. Quite a bit of interest and it's only polite to share....

[chris00nj]

The poll is not quite correct, as the only certainty is provided by answer 1: pre-ordered. For those not having that opportunity, all other answers carry doubt. So I cannot answer this one... :bang:
However, just for the record, I´ll get one for sure as soon as a shop over here carries it, don´t need to test, just see it´s functional. :)

Well we are limited to 12 responses so you can to do some categorizing.
Your intent would correctly fall under #2, you are waiting to hold one physically and you are very interested.

Yes, you definitely plan on getting it, but if that was the answer, some would say " well what if I hold the demo but don't like it? That's what I am waiting to hold the demo instead of preordering. Your poll isnt correct."

The only certainty is someone who has bought something. If you had asked me last October whether I was going to buy a digital camera by the 1Q 2012, I would have said I dont plan on it, but here we are.

[jsrockit]

I'm in. Very pleased with the X100.

+ 1 ... ...

[jsrockit]

Haven't gotten my money's worth from my NEX5 yet, so eyeing a new digi body, especially a new mount, is a bit premature for me.

That said, will you ever get your money's worth?

[thirtyfivefifty]

I'm going to wait it out and see what people's experiences are, if it can replace a DSLR altogether.

[emraphoto]

i am going to take advantage of all the cheap x100s for sale and pick another one up

[agphotography]

I am very interested in this camera, but I too will be waiting for reviews. I had the X100 and loved it immensely, though it was occasionally frustrating. Overall I enjoyed using the camera FAR more than I ever did the Panasonic GF1.

I too would have to sell a large portion of my DSLR kit to fund this system, but I'm actualy relatively ok with this personally. I've been doing some major downsizing in the past few months anyways, unloading all excess or redundant gear.

If this thing reviews well, I'm in for the body and all three lenses.

[tbarker13]

Actually I use the AF-L button all the time in AF-S mode. I have it set to focus lock only and also set to toggle on/off with presses of the button. I will focus with a half press of the shutter, get the green box confirmation, then if I wish to hold the focus for multiple shots I press the button once. From then on focus is held and the focus box remains green. This is a great way to set up temporary zone focusing by the way. Then, another click of the button and lock is released.

Ideally, it would work the same as my D700. My shutter button does nothing but trip the shutter. Pressing it has no effect on the focusing. I don't even remember the original function of the rear button that I use for focus control, but it's nice to push that button to get the focus I want. Then I'm free to push the shutter release without having to worry about it refocusing.

[fearofhummingbird]

Ideally, it would work the same as my D700. My shutter button does nothing but trip the shutter. Pressing it has no effect on the focusing. I don't even remember the original function of the rear button that I use for focus control, but it's nice to push that button to get the focus I want. Then I'm free to push the shutter release without having to worry about it refocusing.

What you describe is how the AF-L works when the camera is set for manual focus. You can AF and lock it with that button and the shutter release has no impact on focus. I have done it this way a great deal. But have since switched to my new approach because I like getting the green box focus confirm in the OVF - which won't happen in MF mode.

[shadowfox]

The OM-D has a smaller sensor and no OVF. It's also taking some flak for being twice the price of a very similar Panny G3.

Smaller is not the same as tiny, non-users make a big deal out of this.
Users, don't.

E-M5 has:
a different sensor (visibly better), 5-axis IBIS, weather-sealed (the Olympus way, not the gimmicky-marketing way). No one Panasonic camera holds a candle to it.

I'm sorry, this thread is about Fuji X-1. I'll stop now.
As far as I'm concerned, Fuji is a good company who listen to their enthusiasts customers. I wish them many profits with the X-1 Pro release and beyond.

[celluloidprop]

Smaller is not the same as tiny, non-users make a big deal out of this.
Users, don't.
That's why I said smaller and not 'tiny.' It has a smaller sensor and thus far all MFT cameras have suffered in terms of low-light performance and dynamic range relative to their APS and 36x24 contemporaries. That may not be a dealbreaker or even that important to individual users, but it's a reality. Just as 35mm was a trade-off in grain and tonality vs MF, there are trade-offs in the digital realm to get the smaller bodies and lenses.

E-M5 has:
a different sensor (visibly better), 5-axis IBIS, weather-sealed (the Olympus way, not the gimmicky-marketing way). No one Panasonic camera holds a candle to it.
The only one of those that is a definite advantage is IBIS - and we don't know how well it works on the OM-D.
Which is partially why the OM-D is taking flak - from, yes, users like Kirk Tuck - for being so much more expensive than the G3. It might be worth it, or it might not - but it's certainly more expensive, just as the XP1 is more expensive than the OM-D.

[RichyD]

I still have a 35mm SLR. On a recent trip to India my Olympus 35RD produced sharper, better exposed pictures. So now I'm thinking of getting rid of the SLR and putting the proceeds to some digital gear and the new X Pro would be the sort of thing I would buy. However, based in the UK the indicated body only price is £1400, about $2200 at current rate. B&H have a price of $1700. That differential is true for most other cameras like the OMD or NEX 7 which could be an attractive alternative. Whatever, I won't be buying in the UK.

[agphotography]

It's interesting to see the Poll results so far. Each one is so close! (Except for the 7 of you that "haven't heard of it")

[PhotoMat]

While I am one who usually waits for others to test the waters when a new camera is introduced, I have to say that I am eagerly awaiting the delivery of my pre-ordered X-Pro 1.

Having previously owned an M8 for a short period of time, I have been patiently saving my pennies for the M9. However, I realize that the M9 is an extravagant indulgence for me. Sure, while it would be another tool in my professional kit, it still would not be the breadwinner that my Canon DSLR is. Furthermore, by the time I would be ready to pick up an M9, the M10 would be looming on the horizon, thus starting the cycle again.

To me, my Canon is a soulless tool that does its job well. I have no fondness or attachment to this camera and I don't particularly enjoy using it like I do my M6 or Mamiya 7. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy taking photos with the camera -- I just don't enjoy the user interface.

When the Fuji was introduced, this was a camera that had immediate appeal to me. I like Fujinon lenses and if I can use my Leica glass, that's a plus. I've learned that there is no perfect camera, and waiting for one to appear results in just that. Waiting. So I'm taking the plunge. I'm sure that the camera will have its foibles (just like any other camera), but I'm am confident that it will be a camera that I will enjoy using and that it will yield excellent images, as long as I do my part.;)

[tom.w.bn]

As long as my M8 works, there is no need for something else. When it breaks down and I don't have the money for an M9/M10 then I might be selling all my M-lenses and buy something like the X-Pro 1 that I'd use with the native lenses only.

[peripatetic]

My X100 will be pried from my cold dead fingers, and I use it for 90% of my shooting. Fuji made a camera just for me!

To supplement it I currently have a Canon 5DMkII and a few lenses.

Here's the thing. If the X100 can't hack it, then it's not clear that the XPro1 will be the right choice as an alternate. The DSLR is very versatile for those circumstances where the X100 won't do.

If I had no cameras at all then I would be tempted to get an XPro1 as my only system. The pricing on the XPro1 is not such that I would easily be able to trade-in all my Canon gear and replace it with the full set of Fuji equipment either.

I would more likely consider some superzoom like the XS1 to complement the X100.

[gavinlg]

The only one of those that is a definite advantage is IBIS - and we don't know how well it works on the OM-D.
Which is partially why the OM-D is taking flak - from, yes, users like Kirk Tuck - for being so much more expensive than the G3. It might be worth it, or it might not - but it's certainly more expensive, just as the XP1 is more expensive than the OM-D.

Kirk tuck says things to get people on his site. One week he's gloating about the nikon 1 system, saying he never needs anything else, the next he's selling it. One week he's saying m4/3s is the best, the next he's buying zeiss primes for a canon 1ds.

The panasonic G3 has one control dial. One. Want to use manual mode and change the shutter and aperture - the two main controls of a camera? You can't. You can only change one at a time, and you have to click and hold a little button and then spin a dial to change one of them. Not to mention the camera is aesthetically horrendous, has panasonic jpeg engine (olympus's is much better), no weather sealing, no image stabilization, is plastic instead of magnesium like the om-d, and theres info pertaining that the sensor manufacturer for the om-d ISN'T panasonic - which would make it a different sensor...

As for the in body IS, demo here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Tr-wfkpDut4



In other news, I'm now seriously seriously considering selling off my canon DSLR system and buying an x-pro1. I'm going to see what canon announce on Tuesday, but the fujinon lenses are just so good, and my x100 is such a NICE little camera.

[flip]

I played around a bit more with one today. The direct view is far clearer to my eyes. I better understand the system for reading DOF at the bottom of the screen, but still find it a bit inconvenient compared to an RF.

Should focus peaking be integrated into the direct view, I could see a lot of RF folks making the jump. Were they to go one further and allow for magnification up to 1:1, it would be incredible - both eyes open and peak lines dancing over reality.... I can dream.

[Archiver]

Like all new systems, this one piqued my interest for about a week until the excitement wore off and I took stock of what I've already got, or have coming. I have a X100 on order, which should be in my eager fingers next week. I bought this to (rationalization alert on!) fill gaps in my lineup. I have a M9 and a Ricoh GXR as my main cameras. The M9 is fabulous with manual focus lenses. The GXR does both M-mount lenses and autofocus modules, but does not have a fast 35/2 with good viewfinder. Enter the X100. Or at least, that's what I'm teling myself!

The X-Pro 1 does not sit in any unfulfilled niche. The M9 is awesome but sometimes still a bit too big to tote around. There are times when I want a neat camera with AF, good IQ and a viewfinder. The GXR is almost there but lacks a decent OVF. The X-Pro 1 is the same size as the M9 and yet another system of lenses to buy into. It will have an M-mount adapter but has no focus peaking, and the sensor is still a 1.5x crop, like the GXR.

Add the fact that it is untested and may have untold bugaboos awaiting discovery. I really don't want to be the guy to find that it has the aps-c equivalent of giant orbs!

[jsrockit]

The X-Pro 1 does not sit in any unfulfilled niche. The M9 is awesome but sometimes still a bit too big to tote around. There are times when I want a neat camera with AF, good IQ and a viewfinder. The GXR is almost there but lacks a decent OVF. The X-Pro 1 is the same size as the M9 and yet another system of lenses to buy into.

For me the X-Pro1 sits in between the X100 and M9. It will be the camera I can use at night with high ISO and a fast 50mm equiv. X100 is my fast lens / high ISO 35mm equiv (and quiet camera) and the M9 is my sunny day camera. :D

[chris00nj]

For me the X-Pro1 sits in between the X100 and M9. It will be the camera I can use at night with high ISO and a fast 50mm equiv. X100 is my fast lens / high ISO 35mm equiv (and quiet camera) and the M9 is my sunny day camera. :D


For me, the X-Pro 1 sits alone, because I don't have a digital camera yet :eek: I got the Mrs. a Leica D-Lux 4 a few years ago, but that is it.

I might go for broke with the M9 if it was a "perfect", but it certainly lacks at higher ISOs.

What really sold me on the X Pro-1 was the lenses. So many of the other mirrorless systems have a kit zoom and a slower wider pancake lens. I often shoot a 50 and like shallow dof, both of which I can achieve with the Fuji's 35/1.4.

[jsrockit]

So many of the other mirrorless systems have a kit zoom and a slower wider pancake lens.

True that. Sad kind of... :)

[Spyro]

For me the xpro1 is everything I ever wanted from a rangefinder: shape and size, parallax corrected OVF, view outside the frame, M-lens capable, no mirror blackout/slap, top range IQ and non-retrofocus wide angle lenses, less the one thing I never really cared for: rf focusing.

If it had active IR AF so I dont have to stress about focusing in low light it would be perfect.

[jsrockit]

For me the xpro1 is everything I ever wanted from a rangefinder: shape and size, parallax corrected OVF, view outside the frame, M-lens capable, no mirror blackout/slap, top range IQ and non-retrofocus wide angle lenses, less the one thing I never really cared for: rf focusing..

So wait, you mean you never liked RF cameras then? ;) :D The X-Pro1 is everything you've wanted in a camera period.

[nonot]

I'm excited about this camera, not excited enough to pre-order mind you, but I'll definitely be considering this as my only digital camera. It reminds me of the Contax G2, and with the option to mount m lenses I'm more or less sold. Now if Ricoh would make a GRD21 I'd be done with my camera buying for the foreseeable future.

[n5jrn]

"I'll wait to see a demo model or reviews, but I'm very interested."

I.e. basically the same answer as for the OM-D. If the EVF is usable for precise manual focusing in low light, it could be just the sort of digital camera I've been waiting for. But that's a big if, based on my past observations of EVF's.

[noimmunity]

If you ask me, it sounds like the system body won't really fully mature for another one or two iterations. The OVF/EVF interface, the focus function, adaptability--all of these things are works in progress...But the cool thing is that Fuji has sent out so many signals with this camera that indicate they really know where they are going with this system as a whole. It's actually that, more than anything else, that has swayed me to buy now.

[gavinlg]

If you ask me, it sounds like the system body won't really fully mature for another one or two iterations. The OVF/EVF interface, the focus function, adaptability--all of these things are works in progress...But the cool thing is that Fuji has sent out so many signals with this camera that indicate they really know where they are going with this system as a whole. It's actually that, more than anything else, that has swayed me to buy now.

The ovf/evf and focus were pretty much mature from the get go with the x100 - I don't really see why you'd think they need work.. I've been using mine as my main camera for the last few months and it's much much better as a camera than other small digitals - the finder especially is brilliant and brilliantly implemented.

[jsrockit]

gavinlg... let's just enjoy our X100s. Seems to me the people who complain about the camera the most are non-owners.

[RealXenuis]

For me the xpro1 is everything I ever wanted from a rangefinder: shape and size, parallax corrected OVF, view outside the frame, M-lens capable, no mirror blackout/slap, top range IQ and non-retrofocus wide angle lenses, less the one thing I never really cared for: rf focusing.

If it had active IR AF so I dont have to stress about focusing in low light it would be perfect.

Agreed, it would be really convenient and common sensical to have IR focusing. Actually, I'm rather surprised most cameras don't have hybrid AF systems like the G2 by now. But perhaps there's a technical reason I'm not aware of.

[noimmunity]

The ovf/evf and focus were pretty much mature from the get go with the x100 - I don't really see why you'd think they need work.. I've been using mine as my main camera for the last few months and it's much much better as a camera than other small digitals - the finder especially is brilliant and brilliantly implemented.

So many exciting and interesting possibilities have been brought up about ways to integrate new hi-tech focusing features into the OVF. My comment wasn't a criticism, but a gesture to what is possible and what will undoubtedly be introduced.

Edit: Needless to say, there is also a lot of room for improvement on the EVF part of the OVF/EVF...

[Spyro]

Agreed, it would be really convenient and common sensical to have IR focusing. Actually, I'm rather surprised most cameras don't have hybrid AF systems like the G2 by now. But perhaps there's a technical reason I'm not aware of.

Ι think it's mostly the single point AF, people want many AF points.

RFs are single point by definition, so I'm not surprised the Hexar AF with its single point IR AF is so popular in this forum. Essentially it does what an RF does: focus in the centre of the image quickly and reliably regardless of lighting conditions. If somehow they managed to implement that in a an interdhangeable lens system I think it would be a major hit in our crowd. The problem is that our crowd is small, so I'm not sure if any manufacturer would want to eat the R&D costs for something like that just to sell it to 5% of the market. It's much easier to just add a couple of AF point in your CDAF/PDAF system and sell it to the masses as "the new Canon XVIIIII with 53 instead of 47 AF points!"

[andredossantos]

gavinlg... let's just enjoy our X100s. Seems to me the people who complain about the camera the most are non-owners.

I like my X100 so much I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to buy the X-Pro1 sooner rather than later. I did not pre-order though, so it'll be probably be awhile before I get one.

The good thing is I'll be perfectly content using my X100 until then. Quirks aside, it is everything I've always wished for in a digital camera: Small but with a big enough sensor, MANUAL controls for shutter speed/aperture, and a useable in body OVF (the EVF is an added bonus and crude as it may be its damn useful). And the quirks aren't even that big a deal once you put in the time to learn them and set up the camera to your liking.

I'm not saying everyone should like this camera but the fact of the matter is that is has a lot of the things weve been asking for and complaining that no camera maker would implement.

[Archiver]

Now if Ricoh would make a GRD21 I'd be done with my camera buying for the foreseeable future.

You could always use a GRD III or IV with the excellent 21mm converter. ;) Mind you, it's a fair bit bigger and won't slip into a pocket so easily.

[macjim]

I am curious to see how interested people are and how it compares to interest in the OMD (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115844).

For me, I've pre-ordered and impatient.

I've just placed my order for one with the 35mm f1.4 lens. Don't yet know when it will come into stock in the uk though but hopefully soon.

[Spyro]

Somehow I managed to spend $500 on this camera before I even buy it :mad:
thumbs up, strap, softie, 95mb/s SD card, domke bag with additional dividers, spare battery, postage ... it adds up.
good thing I'm not using filters and grips.

[macjim]

I've just placed my order for one with the 35mm f1.4 lens. Don't yet know when it will come into stock in the uk though but hopefully soon.

PS. I was an olympus on-1n owner and love using that camera. It was replaced due to fungal getting inside the lens and camera but I've missed that camera ever since. I thought that the new OM-D would have interested my but reading the spec, that finished it for me. 4/3 sensor, unable to use OM lenses without adapter, and the general look of the camera said 'PEn on steroids' too me. I was looking for Olympus to bring out a real OM-1n digital, aps-c at least, OM lens mount and not to look like a Chinese knock off.

[jsrockit]

I'm not saying everyone should like this camera but the fact of the matter is that is has a lot of the things weve been asking for and complaining that no camera maker would implement.

Right. It seems many keep waiting for the perfect camera when there will never be one. People seems to forget that Fuji is the only digital camera maker that put a OVF in its mirrorless camera (and not a crude one like the Canon G). That's a big deal to me.

Andre, you can check out my X-Pro1 once I get it. I should have one on day 1 of availability unless I get screwed somehow. ;)

[RealXenuis]

Ahh, makes sense. Although, single point in "zero" light is better than no point. I'd personally take it and be happy.

Agreed. One of the justifications I found for selling my DSLR to get a camera(s) that are likely slower in AF tracking (and in general) is that i almost never use tracking focus. I would say 95% of any action/motion series of shots I took with it were of my dog, which I feel confident the XP1 (or most cameras) will readily handle (I remember also a seal in Iceland, of which most of the shots were still fairly blurred).

While I can accept that IR AF as of now is single point, I can't imagine someone not being able to R&D that and come up with multi-point, cross type etc. Perhaps just expanding the spectrum sensitivity of the AF sensor (areas)? Well, that's someone else's job, but considering the types of technical issues that get sorted out nowadays, surely someone could figure that out??

Ι think it's mostly the single point AF, people want many AF points.

RFs are single point by definition, so I'm not surprised the Hexar AF with its single point IR AF is so popular in this forum. Essentially it does what an RF does: focus in the centre of the image quickly and reliably regardless of lighting conditions. If somehow they managed to implement that in a an interdhangeable lens system I think it would be a major hit in our crowd. The problem is that our crowd is small, so I'm not sure if any manufacturer would want to eat the R&D costs for something like that just to sell it to 5% of the market. It's much easier to just add a couple of AF point in your CDAF/PDAF system and sell it to the masses as "the new Canon XVIIIII with 53 instead of 47 AF points!"

[digitalintrigue]

Just arrived...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7066/6798020118_b7c2150953_z.jpg

[olelovold]

Got my preorder in for the body and the 35. Can't wait to try them out.

[jsrockit]

Just arrived...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7066/6798020118_b7c2150953_z.jpg

Which country?

[tbarker13]

Sweet.
Maybe we do have hope of getting them before March 20.

[jsrockit]

Ah, looks like these are coming to the US from Japan (i.e. ordered from Japan). :( More waiting.

[digitalintrigue]

Hints I'm getting from the Fuji rep indicate it might be a bit earlier than end of March.

More initial feedback here (http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php?/topic/3745-x-pro1-arrival/)...

[jsrockit]

Hints I'm getting from the Fuji rep indicate it might be a bit earlier than end of March.

Nice! :D :eek: :)

[Talex]

Ok, you just sent my heart racing with that comment. Did the Fuji rep mention how much earlier than the end of March?

Hints I'm getting from the Fuji rep indicate it might be a bit earlier than end of March.

More initial feedback here (http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php?/topic/3745-x-pro1-arrival/)...

[digitalintrigue]

He said and I quote:

"I believe we are waiting on lenses to arrive from japan. hopefully within next 2 weeks"

But, as a disclaimer, I'm not sure if that is just his own personal hope. :)

[Talex]

Thanks for sharing this info! I certainly hope I can get the XPro1 and 18/2.0 before I leave for Europe on Mar 23. I would hate for the package to arrive while I was on vacation. I would have to arrange for a neighbor to pick up any packages while I'm away.

[gavinlg]

Annnnd unfortunately with the announcement of the 5d mkIII, which happens to be pretty much my ideal camera, I don't think I'll be getting the x-pro1 anymore.

Still going to be following it all though!

[Spyro]

I know Gavin... 5Diii, OMD, XPro1 all at once... very bad strategy on their behalf, if they had spread them out over 2-3 years they'd have us buying them all and then working exclusively to repay them :bang::D

only thing missing is for CV to announce an affordable FF RF :bang:

[celluloidprop]

Man, if I could convince myself I wanted to go back to SLRs, the 5D3 would be very interesting.

[gavinlg]

I know Gavin... 5Diii, OMD, XPro1 all at once... very bad strategy on their behalf, if they had spread them out over 2-3 years they'd have us buying them all and then working exclusively to repay them :bang::D

only thing missing is for CV to announce an affordable FF RF :bang:

I know! The thing is, the x100 is my ideal carry everywhere point and shoot camera. It's got built in flash, is tiny, and has superb IQ.
The 5dIII is properly sealed, probably best in class IQ, and best AF system - great for actual work - the two cameras just complement each other.

CV are bringing out the 28mm skopar for eos mount if that's any consolation! You can have the tiny skopar with it's silky metal focusing ring, with the 100% finder and the 61 AF points lighting up for MF confirmation... Very cool setup!

[Spyro]

Nah with all those mirrorless options around my interest in DSLRs has dwindled to nothing basically. I'm an amateur... I shoot for the fun of it and I just have more fun with smaller cameras and lenses.

Keeping my 5D classic with the shaved mirror, high contrast screen and magnified diopter for my occassional Zuiko & Contax fix and thats about it.

[jsrockit]

Annnnd unfortunately with the announcement of the 5d mkIII, which happens to be pretty much my ideal camera, I don't think I'll be getting the x-pro1 anymore.

Still going to be following it all though!

Jeez... easy come easy go...

[Spyro]

CV are bringing out the 28mm skopar for eos mount if that's any consolation! You can have the tiny skopar with it's silky metal focusing ring, with the 100% finder and the 61 AF points lighting up for MF confirmation... Very cool setup!

personally I dont want anything lighting up in the middle of my view... basically I dont want anything at all in there. The RF patch annoys me, the shallow dof of the SLR VFs annoys me, even the green rectangle of the x100 annoys me a little bit. Looking back, my best photos were taken with the Hexar AF. I put it down on the fact that there's absolutely nothing in the VF to distract me, I can just concentrate on the only 3 things that matter to me: light, composition and timing :)

[chris00nj]

Thanks for sharing this info! I certainly hope I can get the XPro1 and 18/2.0 before I leave for Europe on Mar 23. I would hate for the package to arrive while I was on vacation. I would have to arrange for a neighbor to pick up any packages while I'm away.

If I were you, I think I'd order them from Japan now. I would be aghast if the camera came in on March 24th!

[jsrockit]

New review: http://asia.cnet.com/product/fujifilm-finepix-x-pro1-45829035.htm

[digitalintrigue]

I agree with the comments about the improved feel of the buttons, and the location of the SD card makes it tricky to remove. The tripod socket is in a bad location; it will require a custom quick release that will allow the battery door to be opened while still on a tripod.

Battery life, no biggie. Everyone should have at least two anyway. Non-issue. Dedicated video button? Who is going to buy this to shoot video? Not me. :)

AF speed is plenty fine for me. I haven't had hunting problems, even in low light. I shot a video showing AF in low light, it's in this thread (http://bit.ly/AiQcKr).

Haven't done any ISO tests, and won't. I rarely shoot at anything over 200. The review indicates high ISO is fantastic. I'll take them at their word. :)

Lens is fantastic. Very Zeiss-like rendering.

Body is solid, but not heavy. About 25% lighter body than an M4. Lens build quality is excellent, not plasticy at all. Nicer build than NEX lenses for sure.

I have the grip but haven't taken it out of the box yet.

[Benjamin Marks]

I have got to say, I remember quite clearly the feeling I had when the D3 came out and the ISO 1600 images were as clean as one could reasonably wish for. I feel like the X1 Pro is taking the same leap.

Yeah, dedicated video. . .hmm. Funny that a camera that seems to contain so many innovations cannot quite get away from the group-think. So very interested for RFF'ers to report back on actual usage, image quality and the elusive M-lens adapter.

[jskjsk]

How would you order the Fuji XPro 1 from Japan?

[back alley]

How would you order the Fuji XPro 1 from Japan?

contact japan camera hunter...

[digitalintrigue]

Yes, Bellamy will take care of you.

[chris00nj]

How would you order the Fuji XPro 1 from Japan?

Is there any risk to buying direct from Japan, such as losing your warranty? Would it be considered gray market?

[digitalintrigue]

http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=129

[back alley]

Is there any risk to buying direct from Japan, such as losing your warranty? Would it be considered gray market?

i think your warranty would be japanese...service in japan.

[japancamerahunter]

You are all right, the warranty stands, but for Japan. If there is an issue with the camera you send it back and I handle it from my end, as long as it is in warranty:D
Had a few of these sent off now. It is looking to be a very popular camera.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6948106881_0028956c85_b.jpg

[jsrockit]

Ohhh, tasty!

[noimmunity]

In preparation, I've ordered the SD cards, spare batteries, screen protector, ND filter, and have a Luigi strap coming, too. Pretty excited about using the X-Pro1 and 35/1.4 for a project in Taiwan at the beginning of April! Considering ordering the other lenses, too.

[andrew00]

I really like the X100 and a Contax G2 so the X-Pro1 seems gorgeous and the IQ looks great to me, as someone who shoots a lot of fashiony type stuff the fine detail would be great.

However, I have a Nex-7 I really like and can't see the X-Pro1 doing a better job, the Nex-7 has a portait lens w/IS and the extra pixels at low ISO are useful for cropping + the video function.

I really like the look of the X-Pro1, I'm just not convinced...yet heh.

It'd help if Fuji would release a sync cable for the flashes at least!

[gavinlg]

I really like the X100 and a Contax G2 so the X-Pro1 seems gorgeous and the IQ looks great to me, as someone who shoots a lot of fashiony type stuff the fine detail would be great.

However, I have a Nex-7 I really like and can't see the X-Pro1 doing a better job, the Nex-7 has a portait lens w/IS and the extra pixels at low ISO are useful for cropping + the video function.

I really like the look of the X-Pro1, I'm just not convinced...yet heh.

It'd help if Fuji would release a sync cable for the flashes at least!

The fujifilm X series cameras aren't really feature cameras. As in, they don't really sell themselves on features like video and megapixels and modes. They sell themselves on the optical viewfinder, the traditional control layout, the fujifilm processing, and the optical quality of the lenses.

None of which the nex-7 has...

As for resolution, the x-pro1 has no AA filter. Meaning it probably has more resolution than the nex.
Also, the x100/x-pro1 take canon ettl cables and work perfectly with them. Works perfect with my elinchrom sky ports too.

[maitani]

Had the opportunity to handle one this weekend, I first thought the lenses are 'dummies' but they were real, sorry guys this kind of build quality is a joke for the asked price, the aperture made scratching noises, the lenses are full plastic built, and not even heavy duty feeling..

other than than, i like the size, ergonomics and the optical viewfinder, build of the body is ok, feels better in hand than the x100, but nowhere, nowhere, near a realy built camera like an M or Nikon SP.

the best thing about is is the sensor, and the optics seem to be quite good even wideopen, although, no game changers..

I expected much more to be completely honest with you... for what they are asking at launch im definitely not buying, I guess a used M8 would do it for me, if the price drops to 1500 usd including one lens i might change my mind in the future

[david.elliott]

I was going to purchase the nex 7, but some reviews seem to indicate difficulty for glasses wearers, with the viewfinder switching itself off occasionally due to the distance to one's eye. That would be a problem for me.

So, now I'm trying to figure out whether to order the x-pro1 or the om-d.

Will likely require additional thought. Both have pros and cons and I'm not sure which would be the better purchase for me.

Either way, will have to sell a good bit of gear to get there. Likely selling my m-hex 90mm and my pentax 6x7 kit to fund the purchase.

[jsrockit]

the best thing about is is the sensor, and the optics seem to be quite good even wideopen, although, no game changers..

Which new lenses in this price range are game changers?

[digitalintrigue]

In my tests, I thought the build quality is great for the price. Don't confuse light weight with poor build. If you want solid heavy brass, you won't get that for $600. These appear to be built from magnesium or some similar alloy - no plastic that I could see. They are far better built than any micro 4/3 or NEX lens ...same for the body. One can buy a steel frame bike or carbon fiber; yeah, steel feels more solid, but light weight as well as strong is what counts.

I only used the 35/1.4 and thought the performance was outstanding.

[PhotoMat]

No autofocus lens is going to feel as "solid" as a manual focus lens. Due to the nature of the autofocus drive mechanism, an autofocus lens necessitates construction from lighter weight alloys. My Canon EOS 50/1.4 feels nothing like the old FD version. That doesn't mean it is inferior.

[bwcolor]

I just canceled my order. The only thing that bothered me was that I got in at a lower price for all three lenses. I've decided that the NEX-7 suits my needs better than the X-Pro1. Part of the decision was due to the fact that my X100 covers most of my shooting needs and what was left wasn't well served by the X-Pro1...

[chris00nj]

Had the opportunity to handle one this weekend, I first thought the lenses are 'dummies' but they were real, sorry guys this kind of build quality is a joke for the asked price, the aperture made scratching noises, the lenses are full plastic built, and not even heavy duty feeling..

other than than, i like the size, ergonomics and the optical viewfinder, build of the body is ok, feels better in hand than the x100, but nowhere, nowhere, near a realy built camera like an M or Nikon SP.

the best thing about is is the sensor, and the optics seem to be quite good even wideopen, although, no game changers..

I expected much more to be completely honest with you... for what they are asking at launch im definitely not buying, I guess a used M8 would do it for me, if the price drops to 1500 usd including one lens i might change my mind in the future


It's interesting to see people's different reactions to the same variable. If it was built like a tank, some would say it is too heavy. Since it is lighter, some complain that it it's not made of brass.

It's also interesting to see how people value things. Maitini would only pay probably $1200 for the Fuji body, but would pay $2,200 for a used M8, with 6 year old sensor with poor peformance above ISO 400, plus the need for IR filters. So if the Fuji sensor is worth about $1,000 to him, then the M8 sensor should only be worth about $600, which means the M8 body is worth about $1,600.

[jsrockit]

Probably can't go wrong with either camera BW.

[jsrockit]

Maitini would only pay probably $1200 for the Fuji body, but would pay $2,200 for a used M8, with 6 year old sensor with poor peformance above ISO 400, plus the need for IR filters.

Well, this is more about it being a mechanical rangefinder with a native M mount most likely. It feels like a M camera too... and no other camera does. That matters to some.

[digitalintrigue]

Maybe if it were an Olympus X-Pro1, maitani would have a different take :)

[tbarker13]

Having not seen one yet, I can make no judgments about the build quality of this camera.
However, people do have a tendency to equate heft with build quality. I see this all the time in my other passion - firearms.
People complain about the cheap feel of the lighter polymer (tupperware guns, some people call them) guns made by companies like Glock. Yet those guns have proven themselves to be virtually indestructible. They are every bit as durable as their all-steel brethren.

Let's just not make the mistake of thinking a camera is poorly built simply because it has some plastic parts and doesn't weigh 3lbs. We'll know they're poorly built if they start falling apart or breaking down when exposed to pro-level usage.

[RealXenuis]

Why are you apologizing? No one's taking your comment seriously. Continue!

Had the opportunity to handle one this
weekend, I first thought the lenses are 'dummies' but they were real, sorry guys this kind of build quality is a joke for the asked price, the aperture made scratching noises, the lenses are full plastic built, and not even heavy duty feeling..

other than than, i like the size, ergonomics and the optical viewfinder, build of the body is ok, feels better in hand than the x100, but nowhere, nowhere, near a realy built camera like an M or Nikon SP.

the best thing about is is the sensor, and the optics seem to be quite good even wideopen, although, no game changers..

I expected much more to be completely honest with you... for what they are asking at launch im definitely not buying, I guess a used M8 would do it for me, if the price drops to 1500 usd including one lens i might change my mind in the future

[chris00nj]

Having not seen one yet, I can make no judgments about the build quality of this camera.
However, people do have a tendency to equate heft with build quality. I see this all the time in my other passion - firearms.
People complain about the cheap feel of the lighter polymer (tupperware guns, some people call them) guns made by companies like Glock. Yet those guns have proven themselves to be virtually indestructible. They are every bit as durable as their all-steel brethren.

Let's just not make the mistake of thinking a camera is poorly built simply because it has some plastic parts and doesn't weigh 3lbs. We'll know they're poorly built if they start falling apart or breaking down when exposed to pro-level usage.


Yes, heft= doesn't mean it is impervious to damage. My Leica M3 fell out of a camera bag from about 3 feet onto my living room floor. The rangefinder/viewfinder window shattered.



Re firearms, you must be thinking of the 1911 fanboys. Yeah, its a nice gun, but it is still a 101 year old design.

[celluloidprop]

The age of the design isn't all that comparable - so far, we don't have autofocus handguns.
To take that in a different direction, though, a modern 1911 is reliable and easy to shoot, excellent ergonomically and aesthetically pleasing. It just might need a little more preventative maintenance (might!).
If your life depends on your gun running without cleaning or changing springs, polymer guns would be my choice. OTOH, if my life depended on my gun I'd probably be a lot more anal about maintenance (which isn't saying much, I don't clean guns unless I have to).

I've had a variety of plastic and while I liked the M&P series, I wound up culling all my centerfire handguns to a custom Nighthawk Talon II in 9mm and a Ed Brown Special Forces .45.

[gavinlg]

The weight thing is a fujifilm trademark. Think of pretty much ALL the fujifilm cameras. Klasse w and s, GA/GS645's etc etc. They're all lightweight. When you first pick them up you think "wow this things a bit plasticky and hollow", but in use you realize that they're indeed very strong and dependable machines. This x-pro1 should be the same. I'm for one really glad that it's lightweight. I know leica feel awesome and like they're milled out of metal, but my x100 is the perfect weight to be hung from my shoulder all day long, and I don't notice it's there. The x-pro1 is only slightly heavier with a lens. Perfect.

[digitalintrigue]

I prefer the weight of the X-Pro1 to that of a film M.

Here they are: X-Pro1 with SD and battery, and M4 with film...and battery :)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7176/6798391330_fda0a17c26_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7060/6944563693_74fbccb7d9_z.jpg

[maitani]

Why are you apologizing? No one's taking your comment seriously. Continue!

wow, seems like I tapped into a bees nest here, I'm sorry for not sharing the uniform 'hype-am-all-in-for-it-i'm pre ordering two or three', actually i went there to the place an order on the camera, as there was an opportunity for a hands on.. i just expected much more, so i didn't order it (yet) neither did I say i hate it and I will never buy it, to me it just feels like a 1500$ camera not 2500$ camera.. (being completely honest)

I don't want to discredit fujis approach the camera is indeed very good, it's just no worth the asked money to me for the following reasons, there are many likes and dislikes there as there are for as on all products

here are my negatives first:

-built worse than a E-P1/2 or Panasonic L1, let alone M8
-Lenses squeek when focusing (might have been pre-production)
-aperture dial didn't feel right to me, lacking tactility (every bessa lens I know is better in this regard)
-manual focusing is emergency only imo this is a 100% AF camera (some may of course like that)
-by wire focusing lacks mechanical smoothness of true RF lenses
-the planned M-adapter might have to focus your M lenses with loupe in EVF mode, (the fuji guys didn't want to comment on this either yet)
-Electronic VF is mediocre, nothing to write home about
-same laggy menu feeling as on x100
-not a real rangefinder camera

positives:
-Very nice body size and body weight.
-no bull**** extrernal buttons reduced to the essential (great)
-thoughtful interface
-excellent (superb) OVF, with framelines dropping in automatically when you adapter those fuji lenses
-superb, superb sensor (might be reason enough to buy in already, should be well in D3 territory)
-looks
-shutter sound much better than on x100 and M8
-great display
-fast operation

get your hands on one, I'm curious to read your impressions

regs
maitani

[Adanac]

I'm wondering how the shutter sound on the XPro1 could be better than on the X100, given that the X100's leaf shutter is as close to silent as you are ever going to get with a mechanical shutter.

If you've used a stock X100 without disabling the cheap cheesy *electronic fake shutter noise* then maybe that's what you are referring to. Who knows why Fujifilm would even put that as an option, let alone as a default setting, on a $1200 dollar single lens camera aimed at supposedly discriminating buyers... but don't use that as your basis for comparison.

Now squeaking lenses, that's something to write about. :D

[digitalintrigue]

Of course, it's up to the individual to decide if any given camera is worth the asking price. No one can really criticize anyone else in this regard.

My impressions differ from yours:


-built worse than a E-P1/2 or Panasonic L1, let alone M8

First, 'built worse' make it sounds like they are all built poorly. This is clearly not the case. :)

Not only that, I completely disagree. The M8 was a $5k camera when it came out and is not really in the same class in terms of build, IMHO.

-Lenses squeek when focusing (might have been pre-production)

Did not notice anything in this regard, just the AF sounds.

-aperture dial didn't feel right to me, lacking tactility (every bessa lens I know is better in this regard)

It is a light feeling. I didn't have any issue with it. It's not actually physically moving the aperture, remember...


-manual focusing is emergency only imo this is a 100% AF camera (some may of course like that)

Depends on what you are shooting, but it's correct that this is designed to be an AF camera.


-by wire focusing lacks mechanical smoothness of true RF lenses

Again, lightly damped...and similarly, you're not moving any glass mass when you turn the focusing ring. The feel was nice and smooth to me.


-the planned M-adapter might have to focus your M lenses with loupe in EVF mode, (the fuji guys didn't want to comment on this either yet)

Too early to comment.


-Electronic VF is mediocre, nothing to write home about

Compared to what?

-same laggy menu feeling as on x100

Completely disagree. After taking several hundred shots, operationally it is quite satisfying and the menu had no lag at all. Not sure how you are getting this impression...especially when you also mention as a positive: 'fast operation.'

-not a real rangefinder camera

It's not a real DSLR either, is that also a negative? :)


positives:
-Very nice body size and body weight.

Agreed

-no bull**** extrernal buttons reduced to the essential (great)

In general, agree

-thoughtful interface

I think the manual focus assist sequence could be improved.


-excellent (superb) OVF, with framelines dropping in automatically when you adapter those fuji lenses

OVF is indeed excellent.


-superb, superb sensor (might be reason enough to buy in already, should be well in D3 territory)

This is *the* reason to buy it. Along with the superb 35/1.4.

-looks

It's reasonably nice looking but that's not why I would buy it.

-shutter sound much better than on x100 and M8

Sweet shutter sound. I'm not sure what 'better' means though.

-great display

LCD is excellent. Makes the M9 LCD look like it came from a point and shoot circa '06. Oh wait...I think it did... :)

-fast operation

It's a bit slow to play back shots. A bit slower than my NEX.

[tbarker13]

To take that in a different direction, though, a modern 1911 is reliable and easy to shoot, excellent ergonomically and aesthetically pleasing. It just might need a little more preventative maintenance (might!).
If your life depends on your gun running without cleaning or changing springs, polymer guns would be my choice. OTOH, if my life depended on my gun I'd probably be a lot more anal about maintenance (which isn't saying much, I don't clean guns unless I have to).

I've had a variety of plastic and while I liked the M&P series, I wound up culling all my centerfire handguns to a custom Nighthawk Talon II in 9mm and a Ed Brown Special Forces .45.

I wouldn't recommend a 1911 to anyone who isn't willing to invest some time in learning how to keep the thing running. I shoot competitively. And am a safety officer in IDPA. So I see tons of shooters and different makes of guns. Those all-steel 1911s in the right hands are among the fastest/best options available.
But the also represent - by far - the largest number of breakdowns, jams, misfeeds, etc. that I see. Those polymer Glocks, on the other hand, are just so very reliable - with absolutely minimal maintenance.
The craftsmanship behind the 1911s (and they are my personal favorites) is fantastic. But that's not enough. Reminds me of some cameras I once owned.

[noimmunity]

-not a real rangefinder camera

It's not a real DSLR either, is that also a negative? :)



That's the thing about negative logic and specific difference: it cuts both ways. Nice one, Robert!

What the XP1 does have that is absolutely unique at this conjuncture is an optical viewfinder with tons of user-configurable live information that allows one to see outside the framelines yet uses an automated focusing system. Neither a DSLR nor a DRF provides this particular combination.

[bobbyrab]

Had a quick look at one yesterday and it seems to me the focus on m lenses will be visually with the efv, with fine tuning done with the 100% view button. Has anyone read of another way that they might be able to do it?

[macjim]

Seems to me that. There's a lot of talk about the pros and cons about the X-Pro 1, it's all conjecture due to the fact that many, if not 90%, of all contributors have yet to get their hands on one yet to tell what it's really like.
I'd say neither discount nor condemn this camera until you have had one in your hands. I've ordered one as I like what I've seen and read so far, hopefully I will not regret paying for one but I'm looking forward to getting it in my hands.
I have the Sony nex-5n and thoroughly enjoy using it, but I miss the optical viewfinder.
My Leica M9 is a beauty but it has a long learning curve for me as I've not used a rangefinder camera since the days of the cheap Russian models sold in Woolco (anyone remember them?) and I've restricted myself to a 35mm.
I'm looking forward to the clever viewfinder as it gives me the best of both worlds as it magnifies the image, and has an EVF plus the rear display.
This is not intended to offend or insult anyone so I hope no offence is taken.

[macjim]

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/03/06/hands-on-review-fuji-x-pro-1-camera-system-with-sample-images/
Nice review of a preproduction model to whet your appetite

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[jsrockit]

Seems to me that. There's a lot of talk about the pros and cons about the X-Pro 1, it's all conjecture due to the fact that many, if not 90%, of all contributors have yet to get their hands on one yet to tell what it's really like.

Welcome to the internet.... :D

[digitalintrigue]

That's the thing about negative logic and specific difference: it cuts both ways. Nice one, Robert!

What the XP1 does have that is absolutely unique at this conjuncture is an optical viewfinder with tons of user-configurable live information that allows one to see outside the framelines yet uses an automated focusing system. Neither a DSLR nor a DRF provides this particular combination.

Indeed. I think you said this at one point Jon; enjoy the camera for what it is, not what it isn't.

I enjoyed shooting with it, and the files were delicious. I'm sure the RAW will be even more tasty...

[willie_901]

Had a quick look at one yesterday and it seems to me the focus on m lenses will be visually with the efv, with fine tuning done with the 100% view button. Has anyone read of another way that they might be able to do it?

Your experience is completely consistent with the XP1 Owners' Manual.

Anyone that knows if Fuji plans to add another focus confirmation method when they release their M adapter isn't talking about it. I don't even remember reading when the M adapter will become available.

[digitalintrigue]

At CES they said April. I haven't heard any updates since then.

[noimmunity]

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/03/06/hands-on-review-fuji-x-pro-1-camera-system-with-sample-images/
Nice review of a preproduction model to whet your appetite

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Whet, indeed!

An unreservedly enthusiastic response from a first-user with lots of experience and apparently plenty of gear...Interesting!

The comments about image quality and AF are most impressive, but could the AF really be overall as effective as a 5D mkII?

This suggests that the XP1 is in several (not all) key ways as good or better than previous generation FF DSLRs.

[Jeremy Johns]

I like the idea of this camera but the most important aspect of any camera is manual focus and it seems to me that this is a deal breaker on the fuji.

I rate fujinon glass so it's a shame they couldn't improve on the x100 focusing system.

[noimmunity]

Personally, I'm glad they are delaying the release of the M mount adapter. Let's hope the firmware team is frantically trying to develop peak-assist. Better yet, what if the hardware team were actually trying to develop an adapter that communicated real information to the camera...

[noimmunity]

the most important aspect of any camera is manual focus

I thought the most important aspect was a consistently reliable focus system that enables the user to control where focus lands. This control could be effectuated in a number of different ways, and all of them pretty much require intelligent use by the operator. No?

I guess it just happens that for many people on RFF, the system that delivers the most consistently predictable and controllable results is manual focusing, but I doubt that this is globally applicable.

[jsrockit]

Personally, I'm glad they are delaying the release of the M mount adapter. Let's hope the firmware team is frantically trying to develop peak-assist. Better yet, what if the hardware team were actually trying to develop an adapter that communicated real information to the camera...

Hopes and dreams... there will be some bitching on this forum if Fuji just makes a plain old adapter. :D

[bobbyrab]

If, and this is just conjecture, the adapter is just a plain adapter, then I think M lenses will be quite hampered by relying on the evf.
My experience yesterday trying to focus the 18mm manually with the EVF was not great, I don't know if my wearing glasses was a factor, but I found it very difficult to see what was in and what was out of focus, and the 100% view [in the finder] wasn't that much easier.
That said using the Fuji lens on AF was fantastic, the AF system seems really quick and accurate, and it felt like a real camera, no lag of any kind. I think it will be a real alternative to digital M's, but probably only with the Fuji lenses.

[digitalintrigue]

If it's a plain adapter, people will bitch. If it's a smart adapter, they'll bitch about the price. :)

Personally, I would not bother with M lenses on this camera. Get the AF lenses, they are light, inexpensive, and have excellent rendering characteristics.

[gavinlg]

If it's a plain adapter, people will bitch. If it's a smart adapter, they'll bitch about the price. :)

Personally, I would not bother with M lenses on this camera. Get the AF lenses, they are light, inexpensive, and have excellent rendering characteristics.

yeah 100% - use the lenses designed for the camera - they'll perform better in every way. And they're inexpensive!

[RealXenuis]

Straw man slayed! YOU are on a roll!!

wow, seems like I tapped into a bees nest here, I'm sorry for not sharing the uniform 'hype-am-all-in-for-it-i'm pre ordering two or three', actually i went there to the place an order on the camera, as there was an opportunity for a hands on.. i just expected much more, so i didn't order it (yet) neither did I say i hate it and I will never buy it, to me it just feels like a 1500$ camera not 2500$ camera.. (being completely honest)

I don't want to discredit fujis approach the camera is indeed very good, it's just no worth the asked money to me for the following reasons, there are many likes and dislikes there as there are for as on all products

here are my negatives first:

-built worse than a E-P1/2 or Panasonic L1, let alone M8
-Lenses squeek when focusing (might have been pre-production)
-aperture dial didn't feel right to me, lacking tactility (every bessa lens I know is better in this regard)
-manual focusing is emergency only imo this is a 100% AF camera (some may of course like that)
-by wire focusing lacks mechanical smoothness of true RF lenses
-the planned M-adapter might have to focus your M lenses with loupe in EVF mode, (the fuji guys didn't want to comment on this either yet)
-Electronic VF is mediocre, nothing to write home about
-same laggy menu feeling as on x100
-not a real rangefinder camera

positives:
-Very nice body size and body weight.
-no bull**** extrernal buttons reduced to the essential (great)
-thoughtful interface
-excellent (superb) OVF, with framelines dropping in automatically when you adapter those fuji lenses
-superb, superb sensor (might be reason enough to buy in already, should be well in D3 territory)
-looks
-shutter sound much better than on x100 and M8
-great display
-fast operation

get your hands on one, I'm curious to read your impressions

regs
maitani

[Talex]

Agreed on using Fuji lenses. But still, I would love to mount the CV 15/4.5 on it. I love the sharpness and lack of distortion on that lens, and plus it is wider than the Fuji 18/2.

yeah 100% - use the lenses designed for the camera - they'll perform better in every way. And they're inexpensive!

[intheviewfinder]

As I mentioned in the OMD thread, I'm really torn. It's either the Fuji X-Pro1 with the 3 lenses or the Olympus OM-D EM-5 Camera Body w Oly 12mm f2 Oly 45mm f1.8 + PanaLeica 25mm f1.4 .

Which one?

[jsrockit]

ITV, I cannot see how you could be confused between those two cameras other than them both being cool new cameras. Which one fits your style more?

[digitalintrigue]

Bigger sensor, no AA...shallower DOF. I know which I'd prefer based on what I like to shoot...YMMV of course :)

[celluloidprop]

I'm torn as well.
Both are 16MP, relatively compact bodies with EVFs, and a similar suite of lenses.

XP-1 pros:
bigger sensor, potentially superior DR and high ISO noise/detail, OVF

E-M5 pros:
better EVF, better AF, probably the best IBIS we've seen, smaller body, smaller lenses, the 12/2 is slightly wider than the Fuji's 18/2

If you rely on the OVF most of the time, it's a no-brainer. I'm probably at 50/50 OVF/EVF with my X100 these days, which makes it a little tougher, but there's enough overlap in features and usage here to cause confusion.

I got on the list at a local shop for a Fuji - if they call me with one I'll snap it up. If there's a wait, I see that as time for LR4 to work with both and I can see how they really perform at high ISOs and compare EVFs.

[macjim]

here's another review... it's a long read though:http://holyfstop.blogspot.com/2012/03/fujifilm-x-pro-1-first-look.html

[intheviewfinder]

I'm torn as well.
Both are 16MP, relatively compact bodies with EVFs, and a similar suite of lenses.

XP-1 pros:
bigger sensor, potentially superior DR and high ISO noise/detail, OVF

E-M5 pros:
better EVF, better AF, probably the best IBIS we've seen, smaller body, smaller lenses, the 12/2 is slightly wider than the Fuji's 18/2.

Succinctly put - this covers many of the core issues.

Also remember the Oly has got some nice weather proofing.

[celluloidprop]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hjm_s/

The Fuji Pro Neg simulation looks great.

[Spyro]

But still, I would love to mount the CV 15/4.5 on it.

:)

result with the CV15/4.5

from here: http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=1119245&extra=page%3D1

[RealXenuis]

Anyone know how to get an XP1 from Japan or overseas (I'm in the US) without going through ebay? I have a trip early April and I'm nervous it won't arrive. (I PM'd Japancamerahunter but got no response)

[tbarker13]

I think I have reached the point where I can no longer read reviews. I just want the camera in my own hands.

[Spyro]

Kipon Leica M -> Fuji FX adapter
http://img02.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i2/T1TdmWXc4sXXXynHc5_054730.jpg_310x310.jpg

http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=14615407911&prt=1331088649142&prc=1

I'm sure more adapters to pop up everywhere soon, so no need to rush unless you are familiar with the brand and the seller.

[digitalintrigue]

Gentry, he's in the US til late March...when is your trip?

[Talex]

That is exactly the setup I have in mind. Good news is there is no color shift on the sample. But it seems a bit soft. Hopefully that's just a focus issue.

:)

result with the CV15/4.5

from here: http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=1119245&extra=page%3D1

[Spyro]

That is exactly the setup I have in mind. Good news is there is no color shift on the sample. But it seems a bit soft. Hopefully that's just a focus issue.

I think the finishing on his walls is a little bit soft :D

[Talex]

Haha - good point!

My experience with this lens is that it's very sharp, when focused correctly. Sometimes that can be a challenge because the LTM version is not rangefinder-coupled.

I've shot this lens on LTM cameras and M cameras. Also on the RD1 and the M8 (in B&W). It has never disappointed me.

I think the finishing on his walls is a little bit soft :D

[RealXenuis]

Gentry, he's in the US til late March...when is your trip?

April 5th or 6th

[noimmunity]

from here: http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=1119245&extra=page%3D1

What a wonderful surprise to see the lack of color shift.

[noimmunity]

There are other photos emerging with adapted lenses.

Amazing sharpness and color:

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/world/blog/DSCF0386st.jpg

[Spyro]

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/world/blog/DSCF0386st.jpg

LOL there has to be moire somewhere in that thing!

[Luke_Y]

I like the idea of this camera but the most important aspect of any camera is manual focus and it seems to me that this is a deal breaker on the fuji.

I rate fujinon glass so it's a shame they couldn't improve on the x100 focusing system.

Really? Did you possibly mean to say;

I like the idea of this camera but for ME the most important aspect of any camera is manual focus and it seems to me that this is a deal breaker on the fuji.

I rate fujinon glass so it's a shame they couldn't improve on the x100 focusing system.

Personally, manual focus performance and implementation is fairly far down the list. Behind at least:

Image quality
Available lenses
Optical viewfinder
Control layout
Size/Weight
Build quality
Low light/High ISO performance
Dynamic Range
Auto-focus performance
Rear LCD size and quality
etc...

YMMV :)

[Luke_Y]

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/03/06/hands-on-review-fuji-x-pro-1-camera-system-with-sample-images/
Nice review of a preproduction model to whet your apitite

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

This and all related appear to have been pulled from his site. I can't find anything recent on the XP1 there.

[jsrockit]

Can't wait to get my hand on this camera... (sorry, just had to tell someone).

[noimmunity]

Really? Did you possibly mean to say;



Personally, manual focus performance and implementation is fairly far down the list. Behind at least:

Image quality
Available lenses
Optical viewfinder
Control layout
Size/Weight
Build quality
Low light/High ISO performance
Dynamic Range
Auto-focus performance
Rear LCD size and quality
etc...

YMMV :)


Thanks (hear, hear!)

[Talex]

This one is really impressive. I don't remember my M8 getting color like this. Do you know what lens was used for this picture?

This picture shows us that the XPro1 can produce outstanding color and micro-contrast with the M lens.

There are other photos emerging with adapted lenses.

Amazing sharpness and color:

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/borg/world/blog/DSCF0386st.jpg

[Talex]

I just looked at the blog. They have attached some HUGE lens to the XPro1, but I can't tell what it is.

This one is really impressive. I don't remember my M8 getting color like this. Do you know what lens was used for this picture?

This picture shows us that the XPro1 can produce outstanding color and micro-contrast with the M lens.

[digitalintrigue]

It's a spotting scope.

[Benjamin Marks]

Can't wait to get my hand on this camera... (sorry, just had to tell someone).
Yeah, can I switch my vote?

[chris00nj]

Can't wait to get my hand on this camera... (sorry, just had to tell someone).


Agreed.

About twice a day, I check Adorama and B&H to see if they post/change expected delivery.

I have my preorder at Adorama (they put it up before B&H). I wonder if they'll ever given an expected delivery or will they just say, "it's here and it's shipping"

[jsrockit]

I wonder if they'll ever given an expected delivery or will they just say, "it's here and it's shipping"

I think last year they did the latter with the X100.

[back alley]

yeah, if this camera and the lenses are any good, i just might sell it all and buy the fuji kit and then live happily ever after...

lol....

[RealXenuis]

I ordered the Kipon adapter, I'll post some pics when everything arrives.

[noimmunity]

I ordered the Kipon adapter, I'll post some pics when everything arrives.

Did you order directly from Taobao (China)?

The X-Pro1 is listed as available on Ruten in Taiwan. Price is set at approx. US$2300 for the body + 35/1.4

[RealXenuis]

Can't order directly (need China bank account right?). Got it through an Taobao agent.

Ordered a lens through DigtalRev and a body from ebay (Taiwan). Although the price collectively was much more than $2300 USD. Is there a way to get a better price directly through Ruten? Do those in the US have to use an agent with them as well?

Did you order directly from Taobao (China)?

The X-Pro1 is listed as available on Ruten in Taiwan. Price is set at approx. US$2300 for the body + 35/1.4

[noimmunity]

Is there a way to get a better price directly through Ruten? Do those in the US have to use an agent with them as well?

Ruten is only accessible in Taiwan.

You might try contacting some of the sellers directly.

The one that looks like they have current stock is Rawson Camera in Kaohsiung:
Monday thru Sunday: AM:10:00-PM:22:00
Customer Service : 07-235-7755#15 　Fax: 07-235-6600　Mobile : 0973-473055
email : rawson0055@gmail.com　


I have no connection to the seller. Just trying to be helpful.

[RealXenuis]

Much appreciated!

Ruten is only accessible in Taiwan.

You might try contacting some of the sellers directly.

The one that looks like they have current stock is Rawson Camera in Kaohsiung:
Monday thru Sunday: AM:10:00-PM:22:00
Customer Service : 07-235-7755#15 　Fax: 07-235-6600　Mobile : 0973-473055
email : rawson0055@gmail.com　


I have no connection to the seller. Just trying to be helpful.

[noimmunity]

Glad to help.

[digitalintrigue]

I think I have reached the point where I can no longer read reviews. I just want the camera in my own hands.

You may find this one worth it.
(http://holyfstop.blogspot.com/2012/03/two-weeks-with-fujifilm-x-pro1.html)

[noimmunity]

You may find this one worth it.
(http://holyfstop.blogspot.com/2012/03/two-weeks-with-fujifilm-x-pro1.html)

Next post: Nikon D800 - First Impressions
Previous post: Fujifilm X-Pro 1 - A first look (http://holyfstop.blogspot.com/2012/03/fujifilm-x-pro-1-first-look.html)

A busy month, indeed!

[macjim]

Here is a very thorough review from WhatDigitalCamera magazine. http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/equipment/reviews/microsystemcameras/129263/1/fujifilm-x-pro1-review.html

[digitalintrigue]

Looks like they had to really struggle to fill out a list of cons...black paint not hardy enough? :)

[noimmunity]

Here is a very thorough review from WhatDigitalCamera magazine. http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/equipment/reviews/microsystemcameras/129263/1/fujifilm-x-pro1-review.html

There it is again. Having started by calling it a "rangefinder-style" camera, it takes only one page of the preview to elide style and achieve status: "As the camera is a rangefinder..."

Amusing to see how nobody calls the OM-D a single lens reflex on account of its styling, yet the XP1 invariably becomes a rangefinder.

[digitalintrigue]

I noticed that as well.

Since it's a rangefinder, perhaps they should do a focus speed shootout vs the M9. :)

Perhaps the reviewer should not lump the gear all together in a bag, that might solve the black paint 'issue.'

[noimmunity]

I noticed that as well.

Since it's a rangefinder, perhaps they should do a focus speed shootout vs the M9. :)

Perhaps the reviewer should not lump the gear all together in a bag, that might solve the black paint 'issue.'

"some of the paint was coming off due to knocking against other metal parts in a camera bag"

Kind of an embarrassing moment of self-admission! Turns out those bag threads aren't so frivolous after all: divider inserts, people, divider inserts!

[macjim]

Here's a video just on YouTube from DigitalRevTV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-l9QZS8P9M&list=UUuw8B6Uv0cMWtV5vbNpeH_A&index=1&feature=plcp

He seems to like it but the auto-focus is at times slow. I have to say i had the same problem with my Leica D-Lux 5 at times so it's nothing new. What do you think of the review?

[PhotoMat]

Here is a very thorough review from WhatDigitalCamera magazine. http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/equipment/reviews/microsystemcameras/129263/1/fujifilm-x-pro1-review.html

I think that the reviewer needs to make use of a dictionary or thesaurus. From the article:

"...but consider that this is more resolute than a 720p HD screen, making the Fujifilm screen the most resolute on any consumer camera to date..."

I'm glad that the display is so "resolute" -- just what the photographer needs in trying situations.:rolleyes:

[Zonan]

I think the overuse of "rangefinder" is a result of its being a rare, and thought dying, breed. It's unique, among the dead sea of DSLRs. So if it looks like a rangefinder, it must be :)

[hub]

I think the overuse of "rangefinder" is a result of its being a rare, and thought dying, breed. It's unique, among the dead sea of DSLRs. So if it looks like a rangefinder, it must be :)

Think about it. DSLR are so prevalent that you get people to tell you "today most DSLR are digital" *sic*

[NaChase]

Cool camera, but it's going to be an EOS 5D MK III for me.

[digitalintrigue]

Amazing set of images here. (http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php?/topic/3809-x-pro1-samples/)

[NazgulKing]

I tried the camera but I find the EVF very slow. I have used better EVFs than this, which makes me question the price of the camera when there are cheaper options out there.

[jsrockit]

I tried the camera but I find the EVF very slow. I have used better EVFs than this, which makes me question the price of the camera when there are cheaper options out there.

Hmmm, what about the OVF? Do you question that in relation to other cameras that do not offer such an option?

[NazgulKing]

Hmmm, what about the OVF? Do you question that in relation to other cameras that do not offer such an option?

The OVF is rather moot when Fuji releases lenses next year that can't allow for framing using the OVF.

For sure I could use the OVF, but I would like to sometimes see the final product before shooting.

[willie_901]

I use the EVF and the OVF together for many subjects. They are not mutually exclusive. They can be synergistic.

Your point is well taken regarding future Fujinon wide-angle lenses. I'm not sure I would return to using focal lengths less than 14 mm with an APS-C sensor though. For projects that need a large angle of view I would prefer to drag my D700 around.

[jsrockit]

The OVF is rather moot when Fuji releases lenses next year that can't allow for framing using the OVF.



What like ultra wides and zoom lenses? No different from a RF in this respect.

I just don't plan to buy those lenses... problem solved. Not sure why you are looking at this camera if you only want to use an EVF.

[NazgulKing]

What like ultra wides and zoom lenses? No different from a RF in this respect.

I just don't plan to buy those lenses... problem solved. Not sure why you are looking at this camera if you only want to use an EVF..

Well.. then the question is why not a Ricoh GXR?

Look, the EVF is an integral component of the system and having a half assed EVF doesn't speak much of a camera priced more than its competitors. Plus, what is the point of investing in a system when all you are going to use is 3 lenses which at best does not allow you to do everything? I am not going to trust the AF 100% of the time and a slow EVF is going to make it hard to determine the right exact moment to squeeze the trigger.

[jsrockit]

Well.. then the question is why not a Ricoh GXR?

For you or for me? For me? Because I want an OVF. Also, the EVF on the GXR is external and not that great either. As a X100 user, I'm completely comfortable with using the OVF 99% of the time and the EVF is capable enough for the other 1%. The GXR is clunky in comparison. Also, I'm lucky enough to have a M9 so the Fuji's are not M lens replacements for me... they are just an alternative camera. The closest thing to a rangefinder without being one.

My point was that you are criticizing the XPro1's price because of the EVF (when it has an OVF, EVF, and LCD which no other camera does) instead of concentrating on what it does offer.

[NazgulKing]

For you or for me? For me? Because I want an OVF. Also, the EVF on the GXR is external and not that great either. As a X100 user, I'm completely comfortable with using the OVF 99% of the time and the EVF is capable enough for the other 1%. The GXR is clunky in comparison. Also, I'm lucky enough to have a M9 so the Fuji's are not M lens replacements for me... they are just an alternative camera. The closest thing to a rangefinder without being one.

My point was that you are criticizing the XPro1's price because of the EVF (when it has an OVF, EVF, and LCD which no other camera does) instead of concentrating on what it does offer.

The OVF does not even tell you if you are in focus. What good is it if you are going to strictly use it for framing? With a rangefinder OVF, you get to do your own focusing. With the XPro1, you are trusting to hell the camera is doing its job well.

[ZlatkoBatistich]

I haven't tried the X-Pro 1, but the current lens options look excellent for a camera of this type: 28, 50 and 90 (equivalents). The only thing missing (for me) is the 35 equivalent (I guess it will be a 23). Once they introduce the 35, the system will be complete. It looks like all 4 of those lenses will be very nicely usable with either the OVF or the EVF. The planned f/4 zooms have very little appeal for me, especially if they don't work well with the OVF.

[ZlatkoBatistich]

The OVF does not even tell you if you are in focus. What good is it if you are going to strictly use it for framing? With a rangefinder OVF, you get to do your own focusing. With the XPro1, you are trusting to hell the camera is doing its job well.

I'm eager to see how the system works. It looks like the OVF is not just for framing. It does have AF points that light up when achieving focus. This may work well with some subjects and not with others. But I have mis-focused enough with both a rangefinder OVF and a DSLR OVF to appreciate that no system is perfect. There is an element of trusting the camera to do its job with those systems too, and a failure rate that one learns to overcome. I'm going to keep an open mind about it until I see how it actually works.

[tbarker13]

The OVF does not even tell you if you are in focus. What good is it if you are going to strictly use it for framing? With a rangefinder OVF, you get to do your own focusing. With the XPro1, you are trusting to hell the camera is doing its job well.

Has this changed from the X100? I never used the EVF on that camera. The OVF offered focus indicators to tell me what was in focus.

Personally, I would never buy a camera with only an EVF. To me, that would be like buying a car without a steering wheel. Or without an engine.

[jsrockit]

Personally, I would never buy a camera with only an EVF. To me, that would be like buying a car without a steering wheel. Or without an engine.

It would be like buying a car with an electronic windshield! :D

[samuelphoto]

I have the X-Pro 1 on order but I am concerned about image sharpness. Any views on that? The images I have seen online look a little soft.

If it is anything like the X100, which it should be, image sharpness is going to be your last concern. No AA filter, it's pretty amazing.

[digitalintrigue]

Wowza. Nothing is sharper. I'll post a crop.

[gavinlg]

The OVF is rather moot when Fuji releases lenses next year that can't allow for framing using the OVF.

For sure I could use the OVF, but I would like to sometimes see the final product before shooting.

The 21, 35 and 40mm equivalent lenses will be able to use the OVF. Firmware will update the framelines. Also the zooms will be able to use the OVF with zoomable framelines. This was mentioned somewhere by Fujifilm.

The OVF does not even tell you if you are in focus. What good is it if you are going to strictly use it for framing? With a rangefinder OVF, you get to do your own focusing. With the XPro1, you are trusting to hell the camera is doing its job well.

The OVF certainly DOES tell you what is has focussed on. It has a near and far focus indicator box and the focus confirm pops up between these two to indicate where focus has been placed, which works really well. You can also overlay a focusing scale below the framelines which shows you in real time where the camera has focussed, plus the depth of field for your chosen aperture.

[gavinlg]

I feel like every time I go into one of these x-pro1 or x100 threads me and a few other members are spending our time correcting people who get into a huff about an issue which is incorrect or imaginary in the first place.
DO YOUR RESEARCH PROPERLY instead of making wild assumptions and publicly announcing them. It's getting kind of ridiculous.

[digitalintrigue]

What? That entirely defeats the purpose of these threads!

Keep that up and no one will invite you to their birthday parties...

[celluloidprop]

I don't think he's arguing that there's not focus confirmation, just that you don't really know what the camera has focused on (and even with the new X100 firmware, misfocus can happen).

Of course, a rangefinder will show perfect focus, but any alignment issues mean that it's lying to you. And I've only had one DSLR that didn't have some front/back focus issues with some lenses (or all) - and a DSLR screen is small enough that you can't necessarily tell if focus is absolutely spot on.

[celluloidprop]

My only beef on that matter is that you can't make the OVF AF point smaller, as you can with the EVF AF points.

[digitalintrigue]

Click the image for 100% crop. Yeah, that's me in the eyeball. :) Depending on your monitor size (on a Mac) you might have to click twice to get to actual 100%.

http://www.fujix-forum.com/images/fuji/DSCF6011reg.jpg (http://www.fujix-forum.com/images/fuji/DSCF6011crop.jpg)


File name: DSCF6011reg.jpg
File size: 160110 bytes (1024x683, 1.8bpp, 13x)
EXIF Summary: 1/340s f/2.8 ISO200 35mm (35mm eq:53mm)

Camera-Specific Properties:

Equipment Make: FUJIFILM
Camera Model: X-Pro1
Camera Software: Aperture 3.2.2
Maximum Lens Aperture: f/1.6
Sensing Method: One-Chip Color Area
Focal Length (35mm Equiv): 53 mm

Image-Specific Properties:

Image Orientation: Top, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution: 72 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 72 dpi
Image Created: 2012:03:03 14:36:16
Exposure Time: 1/340 sec
F-Number: f/2.8
Exposure Program: Aperture Priority
ISO Speed Rating: 200
Lens Aperture: f/2.8
Brightness: 6.0 EV
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Metering Mode: Pattern
Light Source: Unknown
Flash: No Flash, Compulsory
Focal Length: 35.00 mm
Color Space Information: sRGB
Image Width: 1024
Image Height: 683
Rendering: Normal
Exposure Mode: Auto
White Balance: Auto
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Sharpness: Normal
Subject Distance Range: Unknown

Other Properties:

Resolution Unit: i
Exif IFD Pointer: 192
Exif Version: 2.30
Image Generated: 2012:03:03 14:36:16
Image Digitized: 2012:03:03 14:36:16
Meaning of Each Comp: Y
Image Compression Mode: 3.2
Shutter Speed: 1/340 sec
Focal Plane Horiz Resolution: 2092 dpcm
Focal Plane Vert Resolution: 2092 dpcm
Focal Plane Res Unit: cm

[gavinlg]

I don't think he's arguing that there's not focus confirmation, just that you don't really know what the camera has focused on (and even with the new X100 firmware, misfocus can happen).

Of course, a rangefinder will show perfect focus, but any alignment issues mean that it's lying to you. And I've only had one DSLR that didn't have some front/back focus issues with some lenses (or all) - and a DSLR screen is small enough that you can't necessarily tell if focus is absolutely spot on.

I can't say that I've missed my intended focusing point once with my x100 in 2012 so far.

[digitalintrigue]

My only beef on that matter is that you can't make the OVF AF point smaller, as you can with the EVF AF points.

Use continuous AF mode, and you get this. Please ignore my kitchen clutter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4ZSdDFGdGM

[Stephen G]

Did not expect to want it.
Had a flash of insight this weekend.. and decided to swap around some kit to make this my second body.

Hope my pre-order ships soon :-/

[willie_901]

It is possible to turn on a soft double beep sound that confirms in OVF when the focus mode switch is set to MF. You use the AF button to manually lock focus. Of course there's the focus DOF bar as well.There is no parallax correction. It is difficult to know exactly where the focus point is especially when the subject is about 12 feet or less away.

In AF mode the double beep sound is still an option in OVF mode. With a shutter half press a new focus box appears inbetween the initial focus region on the screen and the parallax box. When focus is locked the box turns green. If focus is not found he box turns red. The new focus box position is a computed estimate of the actual focus point. The closer the subject, the less precise the estimate. So it is possible the indicated focus region is not where you think it is. However in my experience this is rare. Of course the focus scale is still present if you turn it on.

EVF works a bit differently.

[jsrockit]

I can't say that I've missed my intended focusing point once with my x100 in 2012 so far.

I'll admit it... I have, but generally it is my fault i.e. when I try to focus on something too close using the OVF instead of EVF.

[RealXenuis]

Glad to help.

Lens arrived yesterday from HK. I ordered March 7th so the turnaround was about 3 biz days, total. I would say that's pretty incredible coming from China to Texas! The lens build, IMO, is quite excellent. I can't wait to pop it on the camera when it arrives.

[digitalintrigue]

Nice, Gentry!

I'm curious, what does the warranty card say? Is it international warranty?

[noimmunity]

Lens arrived yesterday from HK. I ordered March 7th so the turnaround was about 3 biz days, total. I would say that's pretty incredible coming from China to Texas! The lens build, IMO, is quite excellent. I can't wait to pop it on the camera when it arrives.

Wonderful! I should be getting mine by the end of this week.

Did you order from that place in Kaohsiung? Or some other place (I guess so, since you mention the lens coming from HK).

[macjim]

Here's a new video review pitting the X-Pro1 against the Leica M9
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHXWf6CKeE

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Jubb Jubb]

Here's a new video review pitting the X-Pro1 against the Leica M9
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHXWf6CKeE

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Terrible autofocus. He is right saying the fuji is more a digital version of the Contax rather than the Leica. Heck, it isn't even a rangefinder... (although the Contax is)

[digitalintrigue]

That's what all the professional reviews are saying. Terrible, just terrible. ;)

[Spyro]

Terrible autofocus.

Like Leica says about everything that is crap on their cameras:
"it is adequate" :)

[digitalintrigue]

I shot with it extensively, it is not remotely close to being 'terrible.' :)

Just take the time to know how it works.

[Spyro]

Just take the time to know how it works.

give us a couple of pointers
(bored, waiting for the camera to arrive)

[Jubb Jubb]

Like Leica says about everything that is crap on their cameras:
"it is adequate" :)

hah, I was quoting from the video above my comment.

[nickw]

Here's a new video review pitting the X-Pro1 against the Leica M9
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHXWf6CKeE


Thanks for posting. I feel like Kai made a solid point at the end when he said:
The x pro 1 is brilliant, but flawed, it' the best auto focus digital... what ever you call it, at the MOMENT, but that's because fuji doesn't have much competition. Take it or leave it.

[nickw]

Regarding this blog, which I'm sure we've all seen by now.
He's got some great images. And thus he should, he's a great photographer.
http://zackarias.com/blog/

But one thing troubles me. Today he said he's on assignment from Fuji to review the Xpro1.
Given an xpro1 and a trip to india to use it on. If Fuji is paying, it certainly introduces doubt into what he says. He kinda has to be nice.

Makes me think he will abstain from mentioning a legit complaint. Or if he is to mention one, that he will downplay it, while being liberal in it's praises.

Not knocking him. I'd love to have his job, and given the chance I would do it too.
I just think it's just it's worth keeping in mind while reading his blog.

[nickw]

And lastly, here's my take on the xpro1.

It seems like a solid camera, with great image quality. Certainly capable of producing beautiful images. It's got a lot going for it. Great colour, smashing iso performance, good sharpness, nice glass (from what I've seen), affordable price point for body and glass… but it does reportedly have it's AF issues. And I'm not talking the manual vs AF debate. But rather within the AF world, it's got some limitations. Which at this price point is a let down. To me this is my primary concern.

I do hope the AF issues get sorted. I could live with AF, as long as it gets out of my way.
Images look great. No complaints there. It just comes down to a handling and enjoyment of use.
A camera needs to get out of my way, and just let me work.

For me at this point, I'm going to wait and see what leica announces on May 10th.
I think I'd rather have an M8 with it's limits and invest into the M platform. Then buy an m9 once the price comes down. Long term I think I will be happier. I'm not writing the fuji off yet. It's a great camera from what I've seen. But the usability factor is huge for me.

Going to wait and see what May 10th brings before I spend my coin.

[noimmunity]

But one thing troubles me. Today he said he's on assignment from Fuji to review the Xpro1.
Given an xpro1 and a trip to india to use it on. If Fuji is paying, it certainly introduces doubt into what he says. He kinda has to be nice.


Zack told his blog readers about the deal with Fuji from the get go, mentioning at the very start the terms of his arrangement with Fuji:
"I’m also allowed to say anything I want to about it. I can love it, hate it, or be indifferent."

The photos he's posting speak for themselves.

[noimmunity]

but it does reportedly have it's AF issues.

especially among people who: a) haven't actually used the camera; b) don't care to learn how to use it; and c) expect contrast detection to work like phase detection, or for an OVF/EVF to work like DSLR viewfinders.

[gavinlg]

I do hope the AF issues get sorted. I could live with AF, as long as it gets out of my way.
Images look great. No complaints there. It just comes down to a handling and enjoyment of use.
A camera needs to get out of my way, and just let me work.


I'm going to start annoying people pretty soon I'm sure, but for the 100th time, there's nothing wrong with the AF. Owners of the x100 who have the x-pro1 have said it's better than the x100. I use the x100 over my 5d 99% of the time. I don't find the AF any worse - it's better in some ways (always always accurate, no back/front focus, sets pre-focus at 3m if can't AF lock), and worse in others (gives up quicker in low contrast light, though not to the point where it's unusable or even annoying.

Seriously, for the real world, the AF is actually pretty good on the x100. I'm sure the x-pro1 is even better. They really don't have any 'AF issues'.

[noimmunity]

I feel like Kai made a solid point at the end when he said:
The x pro 1 is brilliant, but flawed, it' the best auto focus digital... what ever you call it, at the MOMENT, but that's because fuji doesn't have much competition. Take it or leave it.

To observe that cameras exist in a highly volatile market with rapid cycles of innovation and that no camera is perfect is to repeat truisms.

Yawn.

[macjim]

It was said about the nex-5n in regards to the competition, that the autofocus wasn't great but that didn't dissuade me from buying it. Also the Leica D-Lux 5 could miss a shot leaving me with an out of focus shot. I hope it is fine for the photography that I do, but I also think people expect too much from cameras nowadays. I have a Leica M9 an that has a long learning curve when it comes to 'autofocus' - that's getting my finger to find the correct position for a given range - as it doesn't autofocus. So every camera has its good points and bad, limitations and advantages too and each are better or worse depending on what type of work you are doing. Yes I would expect it to be perfect at that price range but, hey, look at my Leica M9!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[tom.w.bn]

I'm going to start annoying people pretty soon I'm sure, but for the 100th time, there's nothing wrong with the AF. Owners of the x100 who have the x-pro1 have said it's better than the x100. I use the x100 over my 5d 99% of the time. I don't find the AF any worse - it's better in some ways (always always accurate, no back/front focus, sets pre-focus at 3m if can't AF lock), and worse in others (gives up quicker in low contrast light, though not to the point where it's unusable or even annoying.

Seriously, for the real world, the AF is actually pretty good on the x100. I'm sure the x-pro1 is even better. They really don't have any 'AF issues'.

If have the old 5D and the X100 and the Af of the 5D is much more responsive. All the time.

[jsrockit]

especially among people who: a) haven't actually used the camera; b) don't care to learn how to use it; and c) expect contrast detection to work like phase detection, or for an OVF/EVF to work like DSLR viewfinders.

Amen... keep preaching. :)

[gavinlg]

If have the old 5D and the X100 and the Af of the 5D is much more responsive. All the time.

My 5d is quicker, but not that much more responsive. Problem is that a lot of the time at wider apertures it isn't so accurate - out of every 10 shots at f1.4, a few will always be slightly out of focus. The x100 is ALWAYS accurate - it never miss focusses (unless you stuff up the parallax, but that's your own fault). Plus if the 5d can't get an AF lock it just racks the lenses focusing motor from close up to infinity a few times, which makes you lose sight of what's happening, is slow as hell, and super frustrating. The x100 just gives up straight away with the compromise of pre-setting focus at 3m so you can still get some sort of a shot.

So it evens out IMO.

[Benjamin Marks]

I. . . am . . .the autofocus. Bwahahhahaahaaa.

[noimmunity]

Amen... keep preaching.

just think of it more as mantra practice

don't know why anybody would want to preach, any more than I can figure out why people enjoy sarcasm

[jsrockit]

just think of it more as mantra practice

don't know why anybody would want to preach, any more than I can figure out why people enjoy sarcasm

It was a light hearted comment... and meant to be in agreement with you.

[nickw]

Zack told his blog readers about the deal with Fuji from the get go, mentioning at the very start the terms of his arrangement with Fuji:
"I’m also allowed to say anything I want to about it. I can love it, hate it, or be indifferent."

I missed that. Thanks for clarifying.