View Full Version : round Leitz hoods with rectangular fronts, howto DIY?
buzzardkid
01-22-2012, 05:00
Recently I sold a camera with a round clip-on lens hood that had a rectangular front and the new owner commented that the lens hood was a real asset, he'd had not had one before with a previous camera. In particular with uncoated lenses (he said) the hood was almost mandatory.
This triggered two things with me: 1) Old prewar Leitz lenses (most notably the Elmar 50/3.5 but maybe others too) had a clip-on hood with rectangular front, now priceless and unaffordable if you can find one. 2) British photographer James Ravilious (http://youtu.be/TYg8mxvUgJE) had masked his hoods (and most of the camera) with duct tape to create the rectangular hoods himself. The link points to a YouTube film of 30mins that has his wife show the gear he used.
I'm a dork when it comes to math so I'm asking here: Is there any way to calculate minimal dimensions of the hood and rectangular cut-out for a lens? I suppose one would need both angles of view at the biggest and smallest aperture to calculate this, but then what?
BTW, I'm asking for full-frame ;) film Leica's not the M8 or other APS-C sized gear...
Thanks for any help!
Yes, Johan. Give me an example, and I show you how. I need the length of the lens (including the hood), too.
Does the following make sense ?
http://ferider.smugmug.com/Technical/Other-Technicalities/Small-Stuff/i-d3Bhw7q/0/L/hood-L.jpg
x = (l + 27.8mm - f) * 35mm / f
For the diameter of a round hood, you need to replace 35mm with the image diagonal.
Roland.
buzzardkid
01-23-2012, 08:42
that is great Roland, I think I can figure it out myself from this!
I have a FISON for my uncoated Elmar 50/3.5 that I want to tape up with gaffer tape to make sure it keeps out any stray light.
assume you have the front circle of the hood.
Aren't you looking at the 2:3 rectangle that is included in this circle?
Pythagoras should be your friend here:
Diagonal (diameter of the hood)^2=(2a)^2+(3a)^2
I am really interested in the outcome of this (with, without modified hood shots on a 5cm Elmar)!
I am just learning to love my coated 5cm and uncoated 3.5cm Elmar - playing with hods sounds like fun!
mdarnton
03-31-2012, 04:56
The easy way to do this is take the back door off your M Leica, put the base back on, and mount it on a tripod. Put on the hood and lens, open the shutter with a locking cable release, and then while looking at the middle of the back of th lens from one edge of the film gate, shove something in on the opposite side of the hood until you see it through the lens from the back edge. Move that thing (I use a fingertip) back a mm or two, and that's where the tape goes.
You could easily slide a card in from one side of the hood while looking through from the other side of the film gate, for instance.
No calculations needed, and you REALLY know. This is how I test whether a longer hood than is supposed to work will work: stop the lens down all the way and look in from the back very corner of the film gate and see if the f/22 hole sees light or hood. You'll see better at the smallest opening because it becomes a case of all or nothing, then check it wide open to make sure you don't see anything there, either.
Has anyone tried 3D printing lens hoods of this type? I've had a lot of experience prototyping with a 3D printer and can model the hoods myself very easily if i'm given all the appropriate dimensions? It's even printable in black plastic.
I currently have the same style vented, circular hoods on most of my lenses (CV 35/1.4, CV 40/1.4, ZM 50/2) perhaps i should have a go at making one with the same bayonet fitment?
Well here's a quick, but accurate model of the CV 35/1.4 barrel, with the bayonet as a separate part. I didn't bother modeling the lens elements or any part recessed below the mount. I modeled it when at infinity, it's shortest length, but only one number needs to be changed to model it at it's longest as each barrel section is relative to the previous.
The original hood has sprung metal to hold it in place - as the 3D print would be all plastic, it'll be a friction fit instead and will only have one way of attaching it, instead of the 3x (rotated at 120 degrees) that the original hood does.
Now i can model, as a separate element, specific hoods for the 35, 40 and the Planar 50, each with their own ideal angle, but uniform mounting.
Aaaand here's a test hood, just to get the basic form/shape down.
To give you an idea of cost, i could offer these for £35-40 ($55-65), maybe less, produced on-demand. The vented Planar hood costs £72 here in the UK
How about Vac-forming a hood, much cheaper than 3d printing although not as pretty and you would still need to work out how to secure it to your lens. I seem to remember the square hood on my Pentax SMC Takumar 28mm f3.5 have a very nifty twist ring clamp to hold it in place, that might be relatively easy to replicate with a 3D printer, I think it used little cams and took about 1/8th of a turn to lock.
Vac-forming doesn't have the accuracy needed, nor the rigidity - plus it would take far more of my time and so the cost-saving wouldn't be there in the end. The printing costs aren't that bad at all really :)
Here's a new version based on the 35mm Summicron with the bayonet mount added. I'll need to check out some of the angles to make sure it doesn't cause problems on full frame, but then i'll have one made for my own testing.
Now i've had time to work on it, this version could sell for £25-30 ($40-48) as it uses less material :)
Dralowid
10-15-2012, 09:30
OK so I may be a bit slow but how do you use a rectangular hood on a 50mm 3.5 Elmar (or similar) where the whole lens rotates?
BTW, if anyone is interested, in the attic I have a box of 10 (?) unused FSU hoods that are rectangular...can't remember the fitting size...all in their original packaging, brown cardboard etc etc.............
OK so I may be a bit slow but how do you use a rectangular hood on a 50mm 3.5 Elmar (or similar) where the whole lens rotates?...
I wouldn't bother ... just stick with a round hood. Too much work otherwise.
A simple diagram showing the 35mm FOV when at infinity with the hood on. There's a little extra width for when the lens extends at 0.7m
Obviously this means it'll fit the 40mm easily as well as the FOV is narrower
The test prototype has been ordered - photos once it arrives!
A quick phone snap of the prototype on the 35/1.4 Nokton :)
useless generation
10-31-2012, 03:03
Looks awesome :)
Thanks
It's a nice tight fit, holds firmly on the bayonet, build feels sturdy with a tiny bit of flex.
I didn't quite make the holes for the 3 tabs to slot into wide enough, it was off by 1mm, so i trimmed the proto the fit it and have updated the design too, so it's no problem now.
There's a bit of viewfinder blockage, as you'd expect, but only about 5-10%, so i've also done a version with a cutout in the corner for those that might want one.
I'll get better photos up soon, as well as pricing on both versions for those who want one themselves :)
This is impressive and the results look great. Thanks for sharing this.
PS: I am clueless when it comes to these things, but would it be possible to use molding to make even cheaper hoods? (like described here: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/)
Outside of using an ABS injection moulding machine, which would require tooling etc, this is the best/cheapest way of producing a hood at this level of accuracy, that fits properly on a bayonet, out of a material that can actually be used in the real world.
I do a lot of mould making and casting in liquid plastics and resins, and at these thicknesses, not only would moulding the mount be very hard, but the resulting cast would break easily.
They'll never be as robust as an OEM plastic or metal hood, but they seem pretty damn good, better than i expected really.
buzzardkid
10-31-2012, 04:07
Ha!
Never my intention to see this materialize as a product like this but it sure is nice to see this!
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93070&d=1351680128
CrisR, I'm thinking you better get in the game now with things like this, and you can have a lot of successful sales before everybody catches up! There's money to be made here, I'm sure.
Great job!
Thing is, that in the (now sadly removed from YouTube) video, the widow of Ravilious showed hoods that were in fact oversized and had a part of their too-big fronts masked off with tape, creating a rectangle that corresponded with the 2:3 aspect ratio of the film. As a result, there was a lot of darkness inside the hood and the image that was recorded by the lens gained a very specific clarity and definition from that. Just review Ravilious's work and you'll see beautiful low-contrast, high-sharpness pictures.
Shots that were created with those over-size hoods and prewar uncoated glass.
dave lackey
10-31-2012, 04:47
Ha!
Never my intention to see this materialize as a product like this but it sure is nice to see this!
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93070&d=1351680128
CrisR, I'm thinking you better get in the game now with things like this, and you can have a lot of successful sales before everybody catches up! There's money to be made here, I'm sure.
Great job!
Thing is, that in the (now sadly removed from YouTube) video, the widow of Ravilious showed hoods that were in fact oversized and had a part of their too-big fronts masked off with tape, creating a rectangle that corresponded with the 2:3 aspect ratio of the film. As a result, there was a lot of darkness inside the hood and the image that was recorded by the lens gained a very specific clarity and definition from that. Just review Ravilious's work and you'll see beautiful low-contrast, high-sharpness pictures.
Shots that were created with those over-size hoods and prewar uncoated glass.
Yes! This is sweet!
Can you do a black or chrome color version for the Summarit 1.5 ? My M3 is screaming for a nice hood but the original is rather "not"-elegant IMO and expensive!:angel:
yossarian123
10-31-2012, 05:32
this has been one of the nerdiest threads of all time. I love it!
Should we start listing lenses for CrisR to make these hoods for? I could start with the XPAN. Replacement hoods for the 45mm and 30mm are hard to find, and are unnecessarily expensive!
Then there are the CV wide-angle lenses. The 25/4, 28/3.5, and 35/2.5 just have those little short metal rings. The Hasselblad 60mm CT* has only a round hood. Just for starters . . .
Thanks guys!
Given the right dimensions and FOV from the hood mounting point, i can make any hood you like:)
I figured this would be a good test as it fits 3 different lenses.
With regards colours, it's very limited and i'd probably be going with the whole "production on demand" setup, meaning they wouldn't go through me but be sold direct, but i am thinking about sanding back and repainting the surface of mine black, so i can certainly provide some video tutorials on how to do that for any hood on any lens :)
Bayonet is the easiest. Screw thread can be done, with a donor filter as you can't print threads - then it'd be up to you to line it up correctly! The other way would be to do more of a thumb-screw affair, where the hood comes with a space to glue in, on the inside, a standard M3/M4/M5 nut and use a regular bolt to apply compression to the lens. I was thinking of doing something like this for the CV 21mm and 25mm lenses i own as a test
Main thing is, it's all good fun :)
The old 60mm Distagon CT* I was referring to takes a hood that threads into the filter threads. How about a hood made of a rubbery material that would just force-fit over the barrel? Might work for some other lenses, too, and simplify the attachment method.
Don't really have the ability to produce in a rubbery material i'm afraid.
Livesteamer
10-31-2012, 06:28
Noctilux hoods are crazy expensive. I'll bet you could make money selling some. Very cool project shown here. Thanks. Joe
well, i'm not looking to produce knock-offs, but i've no problem producing a hood in a style that's not available on a lens - something similar to this for the Nocti should be no problem if there's demand for it? :)
Now that i know the method works and the materials are suitable, i've moved onto the next stage, a bit of optimisation
I've put together a spreadsheet that allows me to tabulate the ideal rectangular opening for a given focal length, at a given hood depth, for both full frame and M8 crop sensors.
This means that the M8 hoods can be smaller for those that aren't using full frame. It also means i can offer shorter and longer versions depending on what people want.
I wanted to be quite liberal with the initial hood i designed and had made - it had an opening of 52mm x 42mm to accommodate the widest 35mm lens with some room to spare. As it was, this caused some finder blockage.
From my table data, the exact rectangles should be:
M9: 42mm x 28mm
M8: 37mm x 25mm
and for the 50/2 Planar you can get away with
M9: 35mm x 24mm
M8: 32mm x 22mm
So for the 50mm on the M8, the opening really doesn't need to be 52mm x 42mm...
Needless to say, this suggests some very interesting hood designs, even with a generous 10-20% extra as a safety margin across focus distances...
Another example of this spreadsheet is for the CV 21mm f4. For a similarly deep hood, you're looking at
M9: 39mm x 26mm
M8: 30mm x 20mm
Which i'm pretty sure is a lot smaller than the LH1 hood...
I was thinking of having a go at some rectangular hoods more like the Fuji ones, as to make the opening wider than the 43mm filter size, you'd have to make the hood at least 25mm deep on the M9 35mm and 35mm deep on the M9 50mm. Which seems excessive.
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujinon_lens_xf35mmf14_r/img/index/pic_02.jpg
I'll have a better idea once i've done a bit more modeling.
Oh, and of course, smaller hoods mean cheaper to print hoods! :)
Sejanus.Aelianus
11-04-2012, 07:12
I'd like to thank you, Cris, for triggering me to order a 3D printer and get on with learning a CAD/CAM language, a project I've been toying with for a couple of years.
I doubt I'll be in competition with you for quite a while, though!
:D
Has anyone tried 3D printing lens hoods of this type? .......?
What a fantastic thread, I'm glad to have stumbled across it. I've long thought that round lens hoods are lazy-design, expensive afterthoughts for lens manufactures. And yes I'm aware of the James Ravilious film where his widow demonstrates his early, uncoated lenses [masked for shooting into the light with retained open shadows].
3D printing is an amazing technology. I've come a bit late to this discussion, but here is a hood sent to me by Bo Lorentzen in Los Angeles :
http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2010/09/new-lens-hood-for-voigtlander-35mm-14.html
As you can see, it's 3D printed and I use it on my a Zeiss C-Biogon with an M8. I find it a fantastic hood and I've been using it for a couple of years. The slope of the rectangular shape is perfectly aligned with the viewfinder so that only a very thin line shows in the viewfinder, and the cut-out means the lens does not lose any of the bottom right hand corner when framing. A black, elasticated slip-over cover to keep dust bunnies off the lens would be great, but I've not found a solution yet.
Here's a variant on the above :
http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2010/12/m8-zeiss-28-biogon-hood-keep-it-tight-.html
Bo used to be active on LUF, but I've not noticed his posts for some time.
ChrisR, I hope you persist with your project. And yes, I too think those Fuji lens hoods look good. However, a true rangefinder hood needs a good cut-out, and a sloping profile of the rectangle to ensure minimal framing intrusion. Good luck.
.............. Chris
I'd be interested in a hood for my Summilux 35mm v1, I do get concerned about losing the std OLLUX hood (mega-bucks to find a replacement)
Just one question about the material, how inert is it..? i.e. does it outgas anything that will effect the glass or coating over time..?
Here is the newly optimised version of the Nokton 35/1.4 lens.
I've kept the mount and the length the same as the version i had prototyped, but i've used my new hood calculations from my spread sheet to work out a far tighter, more accurate hood rectangle.
I made sure to oversize the rectangle by 10%, but i can easily bump that up if need be. As you can see it's a fair bit smaller and won't enter the viewfinder nearly as much as the last version.
I've also put a comparison between the previous version and this.
burancap
11-06-2012, 10:01
Great work! I have really enjoyed this thread as it has developed!
Brian Legge
11-06-2012, 10:38
Very nice!
Does that design take into account a filter mounted? Thats a big deal for me as I often use a yellow filter.
And here's the new compact version for the Zeiss 50/2 Planar, once again, with a 10% wider opening.
It's on the 35mm body model, just for ease, obviously the Planar is longer than that.
Very nice!
Does that design take into account a filter mounted? Thats a big deal for me as I often use a yellow filter.
Yes, i've made sure that they can all take a filter as i use an M8 with a UV/IR cut so it's not much use to me if it can't! :)
seanbonner
11-06-2012, 11:22
CrisR - would you be willing to share the files for this? I've got access to a few 3D printers and would be interested in playing around with this myself (and would of course welcome anyone in the LA area to join me)
Sorry for the delay on these, but here's some photos of the first hood i had made mounted on the VC 35mm f1.4 Nokton
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7140/8162088010_3ccde03daf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8162088010/)
Custom Hood for Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 Nokton (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8162088010/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7106/8162056289_94389e74b8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8162056289/)
Custom Hood for Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 Nokton (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8162056289/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
Okay!
So for those of you with a pioneer spirit and fancy checking out one of these hoods for yourself, i've put up 4 hoods that you can order 3D printed on demand (as in, they don't go through me)
The hoods are:
The one photographed above, for the 35/40 and ZM 50, which i've tested
A version of the same hood, but with a cutout for the VF
The VC 35/40 hood i posted earlier, but haven't tested yet
The ZM 50 hood i also posted and haven't tested.
I've put a warning on the listings - they're tested in so much as they will all definitely mount properly, and all should be fine on the M8 or NEX crop sensors, but as i've not tested them with a full frame, if you want to buy one before i do, then please be warned! If it doubt, wait til mine have turned up and been tried out :)
I've spent a lot of hours on researching and modeling these now and plan to produce designs for other lenses too, mainly the CV wides, so i'm not planning on open sourcing the files, but you're welcome to have a go at designing your own based on what i've done here of course.
If anyone does order one, feel free to feedback!
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/AnalogueRobot
CrisR in post #12 (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1988157&postcount=12) you talked about a version for a Leitz Summicron 35mm ... has this idea been dropped?
It's the only one in which I'd be interested ... for a V3 Summicron (on film, so "full frame")
Hi there pdh,
i was just mentioning the style, but i'm sure one could be developed easily enough. The only reason i'm doing these first is because i actually have the lenses to work from - i don't have a 35 Cron, so it's hard to develop for it.
However, now i have my spreadsheet sorted, i'm sure i could alter an existing hood to do the job properly. I'd still need to check out the lens tho.
Thanks for responding. I'll keep an eye on this thread for developments.
And well done for catching a niche need and finding a way to fill it!
Nigel Meaby
11-06-2012, 14:35
Cris these look fantastic! Am I right in thinking the one for the 35 Nokton will also be suitable for the Zeiss 35 f2 and 35 C Biogon f2.8 as they both share the same bayonet mount as the Nokton?
umcelinho
11-06-2012, 14:59
Really excited about this. Looking forward to the results on the compact hood for the Nokton! Kudos for Cris!
Cris these look fantastic! Am I right in thinking the one for the 35 Nokton will also be suitable for the Zeiss 35 f2 and 35 C Biogon f2.8 as they both share the same bayonet mount as the Nokton?
I didn't realise it was the same fitment
The 35mm f2 and f2.8 should be fine, but if anything, the one for the Nokton will be oversized.
My calculations show that for f2 aperture, the hood can be smaller and for 2.8, smaller again.
I've just had a look, and the 50/f2 hood is almost the right size for the 35/2.8. It wouldn't be a 10% safety margin, it'd be closer to 6%, but it might work. I'd need to test it to be sure.
On an M8, i'd say the 50/2 hood would be fine on the 35/2.8, but again, until i've been able to get my hands on these and fully test them, it's faith in the numbers :)
I will be testing every single hood, the ones that are currently untested are just for those brave souls who wish to take a punt and join in the fun!
My next test, will be for 21mm and 25mm hoods for the CV lenses, mainly to test mounting them on the existing mini screw in hood via friction and a very accurate print.
Brian Legge
11-07-2012, 08:15
I ordered one of the new / untested 35mm/f1.4 hoods last night. I know its still experimental but I'm excited about it! Worst case, I'll sell it here to someone using a cropped sensor body and pick up a future iteration of the design.
I'm really excited about this!
PatrickT
11-07-2012, 08:30
Very cool project. I love seeing stuff like this. As a mechanical engineer / CAD specialist, this is right up my alley :)
Great work!
Awesome Brian!
Feel free to message me when it arrives with any findings and feedback, or problems of course
Thanks Patrick!
Okay, so here is the Voigtlander 21mm f4 Color Skopar hood that i've been working on.
Because it has no Bayonet, it's not quite so easy to mount it properly aligned, if at all.
The only way i can see to fit it, is to mount it over the top of the existing mini-hood that screws in.
What i've done, is to model the barrel (sans screw-thread) and the mini hood separately, then worked from the base of the mini hood. The replacement hood has a hole for it that is ever so slightly (0.1mm) smaller than the mini hood. This should offer a super tight friction fit.
The hole to insert the mini hood, has a stopper inside it, so that a set length of the hood (6mm) goes in, but leaves a little sticking out. This is as much to offer a little extra finger clearance for the aperture tabs (not modeled)
So what i'd do, is screw the metal mini hood on, then twist the new hood on top of it, making sure it's aligned.
What i could do, is put a tiny mark at the top and bottom of the hood, so you can line it up with the white mark on the aperture ring that identifies the current selection.
If the friction fit wasn't strong enough, what you'd be able to do, is line up the top mark, then mark the mini-hood using the bottom mark. Then, when you unscrew the mini-hood, you can fit it inside the replacement, align the mark, and put the tiniest bit of superglue on at that point, taking care not to get it on the screw thread. The glue will be sucked into the gap by capillary action (i do this every day with my own work prototypes) and wipe off any excess.
I'll have images of the CV 25 f4 Color Skopar soon too :) That hood's even smaller.
I won't be putting this up on the store until i've tested that it mounts this way.
My high tech way of checking lens hoods don't foul full frame images
setyotomo
11-09-2012, 03:25
My high tech way of checking lens hoods don't foul full frame images
sweet!
im sold btw, if you produce for 35 cron v3 i am ordering :)
thread subscribed ;)
Thanks Setyotomo!
I think i need to find someone here in London that would be okay lending me a 35 cron V3 - once to measure it all up, then again a couple of weeks later to test it out. It should be pretty similar to the 35/1.4 one, just a little smaller again?
I'm just not sure about attaching it securely to the barrel without marking it in any way.
Mr_Flibble
11-09-2012, 04:26
Would like something for my freshly-acquired Xenon. The problem is back in the day it had some kind of clamp-on barn-door hood (rarer then rocking horse droppings and hen's teeth). Heck, original lens caps are $80 ;)
CrisR: Could you make the hood for a 50mm f/1.5 C-Sonnar? Is the bayonet the same size?
I'd also love a square hood for the C-cron 40mm (maybe using the original rubber hood's metal threaded ring?)
K43: I could indeed, i don't know if it's the same bayonet, i know that the hood for the Planar does not fit on the 28 Biogon, the Biogon uses a 46mm filter instead of a 43mm and so it's larger. It maybe the same fit as that?
A hood for the 40 cron shouldn't be a problem. For those without any real mounting points, it's probably a case of sacrificing a filter, but then you'd not be able to screw another in front of it, you'd have to screw it behind, and that would change the hood geometry or necessitate making it larger.
I'm kinda doing the easy hoods first lol - but i'm sure i can produce something for most lenses :)
Mr Flibble: Likewise, if i have a lens i can work off, i can probably make a nice hood for it.
So here are the 4 compact hoods i've done so far, compared to each other.
As you can see, the aperture is a factor. Wider lenses with smaller apertures actually can have smaller hoods that narrower lenses with wider apertures.
I won't be offering the 21 and 25 until i've got my own copies here to test the mounting system as i don't want to offer something that doesn't even attach.
umcelinho
11-09-2012, 05:50
Cris, also the hood for the c-sonnar has the exact same bayonet as the 21/2.8, both 46mm, might be the same as the 28 Biogon, I guess having the same hood for these wouldn't work out as they've got pretty different coverages, but i's good to keep it in mind.
you're addressing a pretty good gap on the rangefinder niche!
Sounds like it might be the same bayonet then
and no, you'd never make a 21/28/50 hood, but it's easier to get the mounting point for 3 lenses right once, than 3 different mounting points for 3 lenses. I'd model the mount once then develop the 3 hoods separately.
Once again, if i can get hold of the lenses, then i can model something up no problem :)
Okay, so i've gone back over the thread to see what requests and suggestions have been made for lenses. I've had to guess the fitment types for some of these.
[B] Bayonet
[S] Screw Thread
[P] Push over existing mini hood
Lenses Covered Already
Voigtlander
21/4Color Skopar [P]
25/4 Color Skopar [P]
35/1.4 Nokton [B]
40/1.4 Nokton [B]
Zeiss
50/2 Planar [B]
Lenses requested/Suggested
Zeiss
21/2.8 Biogon [B]
25/2.8 Biogon [B]
28/2.8 Biogon [B]
35/2 Biogon [B]
35/2.8 C Biogon
50/1.5 C Sonnar [B]
Leica
40 Cron [S]
35 Cron V3 [S]
35 Lux V1 [S]
50/1.5 Summarit [S]
Voigtlander
35/2.5 [P]
Hassleblad
60 Distagon CT [s]
Looking at the list, i will probably focus on the bayonet lenses first as they're by far the easiest system. But as i don't have any of these lenses, i'll need to get hold of them for testing one way or another really.
Okay, i've finally thought of a way to use a sacrificial filter for the screw thread hoods, yet still be able to screw another filter on top.
I can make a very small, cheap "stopper" for the sake of fitting the filter correctly, that then is removed, exposing the filter thread.
Should only add a dollar or two so onto the price and i'll make it so that you only need one per filter size. I'll update when i've done a test design for this system.
Here is a nice article (http://toothwalker.org/optics/lenshood.html) from Paul van Walree about lens hoods. It contains graphics that explain some of the tradeoffs with the design of lens hoods. At the bottom of the page there is cached document from Hasselblad.com where Erland Pettersson describes an elegant way to check for lens hood vignetting without wasting film.
Hey there Sol, i did indeed check that out in my research, and was part of the reason i went the direction i did :)
"Both the tulip hood and the rectangular hood are more effective than the round hood. Not only because they are longer, but also because their shape is matched to the pyramidal cone and leaves no holes. A rectangular hood reduced to the same length as the round hood in figure 9 would still be more effective."
K43: I could indeed, i don't know if it's the same bayonet, i know that the hood for the Planar does not fit on the 28 Biogon, the Biogon uses a 46mm filter instead of a 43mm and so it's larger. It maybe the same fit as that?
A hood for the 40 cron shouldn't be a problem. For those without any real mounting points, it's probably a case of sacrificing a filter, but then you'd not be able to screw another in front of it, you'd have to screw it behind, and that would change the hood geometry or necessitate making it larger.
I'm kinda doing the easy hoods first lol - but i'm sure i can produce something for most lenses :)
Mr Flibble: Likewise, if i have a lens i can work off, i can probably make a nice hood for it.
The Sonnar-C has a 46mm thread indeed. I'd give you mine to measure the bayonet but I'm not in the UK and I do not trust the parcel services, bad enough I have to use them when buying things.
The Cron-C 40's original hood holds series 5.5 filters. Using the original hood's metal core as a push on holder would be perfect (maybe even glue the new hood on it). There are also Cron-C-to-39mm screw in adapters on ebay, maybe just fit the hood to hold on them?
K43, thanks for the offer - i totally know what you mean with regards shipping valuable items around! I'm sure i'll work out a way to get my hands on some in London :)
I'll check out the adapter, but i'm a little wary about using cheap adapters as i know the tolerances on them can be pretty poor sometimes. I'll see what it's like. Cheers!
Mr_Flibble
11-13-2012, 02:20
Looking at the similarity between the Summarit and Xenon, I think it's likely a screw-in hood for one would also fit the other. The XOONS clamp-on hood fits both as well I believe.
Cris, I am really anxious to see your mounting solution for the CV 21/4. Your compact hood design is exactly what i'm looking for. When available I would order one right away.
Or... If you need a beta tester...
Thanks for all of the effort!
Hey there Nick!
The testers for all 4 untested hoods will be arriving in 3 or 4 days, i'll be testing them immediately. If and when they pass, i'll be taking photos, updating the store listings and putting them live.
I will probably also do a series of videos that explain each of the hood's use, mounting and anything not obvious. Hoods like that for the 21mm will need a little explanation of assembly, as will any that are screw thread.
I'll also be testing out some hood cap designs next too as it seems people like caps (i don't use them myself)
Cheers!
Hi Cris,
Got my hood for the Nokton 40 today and have to say it looks promising.
Hard to believe its a print... good material, good surface, good fit.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93292&stc=1&d=1353354920
I will do some testing this week regarding vignetting, but have no doubt to find nothing, as it is computed for the 35.
Cris, again, nice work, thanks for the effort... the Skopar 25/4 hood is the next in line, if ready. :)
Best,
-haempe
Fantastic! It looks even better quality than the one I had made up - mine arrive later ths week but by all means let me know!
Thanks for bravely jumping in before I'd been able to confirm, I'm really glad to hear you're pleased with the result so far :)
Hi Cris,
Got my hood for the Nokton 40 today and have to say it looks promising.
Hard to believe its a print... good material, good surface, good fit.
…
Best,
-haempe
Nice looking indeed - hood and camera ;-)
mathomas
11-19-2012, 18:41
This thread rules! Maybe I missed it but I'm surprised nobody has asked about a hood for the 50mm Leitz Summarit f/1.5. Those hoods are super-rare and expensive. The hood used a thumb screw arrangement. Wish I still had my copies.
mathomas
11-19-2012, 18:43
Oops, I see it WAS mentioned. Folks would be very excited about that, I think.
dave lackey
11-20-2012, 02:32
Oops, I see it WAS mentioned. Folks would be very excited about that, I think.
I am! But, I can't send my lens in for a model. It is the only lens I own for my M3 that I use everyday....
Looking forward to a hood for my Summarit!:angel:
Hello, so the hoods arrived and we have good news.
The Planar 50/2 hood is tested and all a-ok. http://www.shapeways.com/model/764153/zm_50_2_planar_compact_hood.html
The VC 35/1.4 and 40/1.4 hood has been tested and is also a-ok http://www.shapeways.com/model/764151/vc_35_1_4_or_40_1_4_compact_hood__untested_atm_.ht ml
I will get these both updated with photos soon.
I found that one of the prints was a little tighter than the others i've had done with the bayonet. It needed the grooves cleaning out a bit more, but then fit fine. The fit is very tight, on purpose, but if you all feel it's too tight, i can make it wider in the future.
The 21mm and 24mm hoods both arrived too, and the pop-on fitment i designed has worked perfectly, no need for glue at all.
They're both perfect on my M8, but i think there maybe some vignetting on full frame. However is it hard to tell, as F4 doesn't let in much light and so using my system with the M2 isn't as clear as i'd like it.
So, is there someone with an M9 in the UK and the CV 21 and 25 lenses that i could post these to for a 2nd opinion? Ideally in London, but i know that might be pushing it.
If they are vignetting, it's only by a tiny amount and would just be a case of shortening the hood length by a couple of mm.
And yes, a Summarit 50 1.5 hood is on the table, but as i need to get hold of one for design and testing, it maybe a while.
Here's the 50/2 Planar Hood
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8209/8205861176_83b52fcb10_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205861176/)
ZM 50mm Planar Compact Hood (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205861176/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8339/8205861542_c7a255d727_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205861542/)
ZM 50mm Planar Compact Hood / Front (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205861542/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8202/8204771683_7093bc9bd8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204771683/)
ZM 50mm Planar Compact Hood / Top (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204771683/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
And a comparison with the big old Zeiss one
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8203/8205862524_996f17483a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205862524/)
ZM 50mm Planar Hood Comparison (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205862524/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
And here's the hood for CV 35/1.4 and 40/1.4
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8204830843_fa195863df_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204830843/)
CV 35/1.4 and 40/1.4 Compact Hood (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204830843/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8349/8205921336_44dfd7693f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205921336/)
CV 35/1.4 and 40/1.4 Compact Hood / Top (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205921336/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8207/8204831429_d23a14c401_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204831429/)
CV 35/1.4 and 40/1.4 Compact Hood / Front (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204831429/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8204831669_4f470f251e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204831669/)
Hood Comparison (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8204831669/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
and here's all 4, including the CV 21 and 25 hoods atm
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8208/8205923632_d33364770a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205923632/)
4 Compact Hoods (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205923632/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8344/8205924026_1e97aa6f1b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205924026/)
4 Compact Hoods (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisrose/8205924026/) by Cris Rose (http://www.flickr.com/people/crisrose/), on Flickr
Mr_Flibble
11-21-2012, 03:40
Fantastic job Cris!
robklurfield
11-21-2012, 04:03
How about Canon 35/2 and 50/1.4?
Wow, this is really cool!
Would it be possible to add some pictures taken through the viewfinder to get an idea about how much your hoods intrude into the framelines?
I'll sort out some frameline shots for you soon. The answer is basically "hardly at all", but i'll put some up for you.
Cheers
buzzardkid
11-21-2012, 13:02
...And I see you set up shop already!
Good luck on the sales!
Devil's advocate: You think you could do film holders for the future Plustek 120 fixed-focus scanner, in different depths? So there's always a film holder available that'll achieve perfect focus when using that scanner (once it finally ships...)?:rolleyes:
I don't see any reason why not?
I don't know what the issues are, but you could probably design an adjustable one - i'd imagine an outer frame, with a sliding inner section that holds the film. There would be a series of steps up and down, or even a diagonal slider?
Cris. I see you cv21 is the newer M mount version. Do you know if the hood size would be the same on the ltm version?
Thanks
Brian Legge
11-21-2012, 18:15
The untested version of the 35/1.4 arrived today. The build quality and feel impresses me. It definitely is a nice setup.
I shoot film only so I can't test it immediately but looking through the film gate with the back off of the camera, I can definitely see the hood. It looks like it may vignette to the same degree as a HeavyStar hood does when used with a filter. Very minor detail, but the hood also rotates maybe half a degree too far when mounting. This may be manufacturing variation in either the mount/hood/lens/etc though and is easy to deal with. I'm 95% sure a cropped sensor body wouldn't have a problem with it.
Based on the build quality, I'd definitely buy another once any vignetting that is there is sorted out.
Hi there Brian,
I'm glad you're pleased with it so far. It does rotate a little further, that's to allow for any issues with the printing as i figured it was better to go a little further than be 1 degree short. I'll be adding a mark on the top of the hood to align with the aperture mark for easier alignment, as i too found similar trickiness getting it just right when my test ones arrived yesterday.
Please let me know about any vignetting and i'll make adjustments if need be. Thanks!
Cris. I see you cv21 is the newer M mount version. Do you know if the hood size would be the same on the ltm version?
Thanks
I've designed for the 21mm Color Skopar, not the Snapshot, i have no idea at all what the difference between them is i'm afraid.
I've designed for the 21mm Color Skopar, not the Snapshot, i have no idea at all what the difference between them is i'm afraid.
Cris - is that the screw-mount version or the M-mount version?
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtlen.htm#21/4P_M
EDIT: on the linked page Stephen Gandy states "The optional square LH-1 lens hood will fit the 21P, but the LH-1 is not suitable for the R4's as it blocks too much of the viewfinder." So the answer to Nick's question looks like - yes they are the same.
frostfire90
11-22-2012, 01:29
Hi ChrisR, any chances you will be able to make a hood for the Leica 35 Summilux Pre-Asph ver II with a filter slot? I believe many users here will be eternally grateful, myself included :)
EDIT: on the linked page Stephen Gandy states "The optional square LH-1 lens hood will fit the 21P, but the LH-1 is not suitable for the R4's as it blocks too much of the viewfinder." So the answer to Nick's question looks like - yes they are the same.
I've done it for the M mount 21P and 25P lenses.
Given how oversized the LH-1 is, it probably doesn't matter if the lenses are fairly different, and given how specific my fitment is and how close the geometry is, i certainly wouldn't tell people they are the same. As little as 1mm shorter and you'd get overlap into the FOV.
Cris - is that the screw-mount version or the M-mount version?
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtlen.htm#21/4P_M
EDIT: on the linked page Stephen Gandy states "The optional square LH-1 lens hood will fit the 21P, but the LH-1 is not suitable for the R4's as it blocks too much of the viewfinder." So the answer to Nick's question looks like - yes they are the same.
Thanks ChrisN. I didn't notice that when I read about the Voigtlander hood. I am going to take a chance on ordering one of Cris' hoods when they come available.
Hi ChrisR, any chances you will be able to make a hood for the Leica 35 Summilux Pre-Asph ver II with a filter slot? I believe many users here will be eternally grateful, myself included :)
I'm not familiar with the particulars of the lens? Filter slot?
Cris, I am in London (work in Victoria, live out near Wimbledon) and have a 35mm v3 summicron, a voigtlander 50mm f1.5 and a v1 90mm elmarit if meeting up and measuring is any good for these lenses.
Cris, I am in London (work in Victoria, live out near Wimbledon) and have a 35mm v3 summicron, a voigtlander 50mm f1.5 and a v1 90mm elmarit if meeting up and measuring is any good for these lenses.
That would be cool indeed - the 35 and 50 specifically, haven't seen much call for 90s.
Drop me a DM, we'll meet up for coffee down Victoria way? :) Always nice to meet new people.
That would be cool indeed - the 35 and 50 specifically, haven't seen much call for 90s.
Drop me a DM, we'll meet up for coffee down Victoria way? :) Always nice to meet new people.
Will do Cris!
I could still do with someone with an M9 to help out with the CV 21/25 hoods if anyone has such a combo?
Otherwise i'll err on the side of caution and alter the hood design :)
flickreyes
11-24-2012, 08:08
And yes, a Summarit 50 1.5 hood is on the table, but as i need to get hold of one for design and testing, it maybe a while.
Doing great stuff! :-)
It will be great to have the Summarit hood also for the old Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f1,5 (Jupiter-3). It has 40,5 filter thread or push-on 42mm.
I will be happy to have one!
frostfire90
11-24-2012, 08:51
I'm not familiar with the particulars of the lens? Filter slot?
Hi CrisR, apologies for the slow reply. The only dedicated hood for the Leica 35 Summilux Pre-Asph is the Leica 12504 hood which accepts a filter in the centre when the hood is dismantled. The lens itself does not accept any filters (no filter threads) hence this is the only option current users of this lens have if we want to use a filter on this lens.
However the hood itself does not block glare well, so i was wondering if you could make a hood for this lens which allows a filter to fitted onto the hood itself? Hope im making sense here!
I have M9 and CV 21mm f/4 screw-mount (not the later bayonet mount), which has the small screw-in hood. I'm currently using the LH-1 hood. Happy to help.
I have the same combination as ChrisN. My only hood for the CV 21/4 is the tiny screw in hood. I'm in the US but am willing to help if possible.
Classique
11-30-2012, 09:41
I'm not sure if it's necessary but how about slip on hood for Nokton 50mm 1.5? I think the lens deserves a nice square hood :)
This is awesome, Chris!
Would any of these fit a Jupiter 8 lens?
Got my hood in the mail yesterday. I've never had experience with 3D printing, so I wasn't sure what to expect. Was surprised at how rough the texture of hood was. It was also covered in particles which I'm assuming were left after the printing process. Definitely needed to be washed to get rid of most of it. The fit is extremely tight. I'd almost say too tight. I feel like I'm going to break the lens when I try to put it on. Unfortunately, it was foggy today so I didn't get a chance to test it for flare compared to the OEM voigt hood.
Still not sure how I feel about the build quality, but I will admit it looks really good.
http://images52.fotki.com/v1563/photos/5/51621/396461/IMG_6123-vi.jpg
cutout is adequate
http://images52.fotki.com/v1564/photos/5/51621/396461/IMG_6126-vi.jpg
I would definitely like to thank Chris for putting in the effort to design and create these hoods. All too often an idea like this can become vaporware. Nice to see a member really stepping up and creating something unique and useful.
Cheers,
M
Hey there mdwsta4!
Thanks for the order and the feedback on the hood.
I'm glad that you like it's appearance, that was one of the major motivating factors - something that would be at least as good operationally as the OEM, cheaper, and give that square look.
I tried my best to show and describe the 3D print material - it's never going to be like an injection moulded ABS hood from a factory, but if i'd felt it wasn't acceptable for the price, i'd not have put it for sale.
For those keen for a better surface finish - the material is sandable, and takes paint quite well, so i was thinking of doing this to one of mine as a bit of a "DIY Matt Paint Finish" tutorial for those who fancy it :)
Some prints do indeed require a wash. The support material is a clearish gel that dissolves in water. A toothbrush in any details (like the bayonet grooves) is great for getting rid of any excess that Shapeways may not have removed.
With regards the tightness, of the 4 i've printed, 3 were stiff, but fine, but one was really very stiff indeed. I scraped the bayonet groove out a little and it fit better - after mounting it about 10 times in a row, it was fine.
This is due to the 0.2mm tolerance of Shapeways manufacturing process. I have designed down to 0.05mm accuracy, with the aim of it being a little tighter, rather than too loose.
This is because it's easier to scrape a little out of the groove for a stiff fit, than to try and add material to fix a looser fit. So far i've heard most say that it's firm, but not lens-breakingly tight. My tight print actually moved the bayonet slightly when attaching it! It turned back okay when i removed it tho.
I've had one person contact me saying it was so loose, it wouldn't stay on at all. This was pretty surprising. I asked them to contact Shapeways who suggested it was my fault and they had printed it exactly, but once they directed them to this thread and they saw the level of fit designed in and the QC on the product, they relented and gave a full credit refund on the print so that he could order another print.
Some time after Xmas i'll sort out a full FAQ, with images, how-tos and details of some of your experiences, so that anyone who orders, or is thinking of, knows what to expect, any possible issues etc.
This is one of the reasons i've not released the CV21 and CV25 hoods yet, i want to make sure that any issues that might occur, are rooted out before going any further, as i want to offer really cool stuff for all you guys and make everyone as happy as possible! I would be horrified if people weren't getting what they paid for and as i love this place, i certainly don't want to go getting myself a bad rep over a project that was entered into with the best intents :)
Thanks again everyone! I hope i can provide great hoods for everyone that wants one on every lens they like!
Classique
12-11-2012, 18:08
Hey there mdwsta4!
Thanks for the order and the feedback on the hood.
I'm glad that you like it's appearance, that was one of the major motivating factors - something that would be at least as good operationally as the OEM, cheaper, and give that square look.
I tried my best to show and describe the 3D print material - it's never going to be like an injection moulded ABS hood from a factory, but if i'd felt it wasn't acceptable for the price, i'd not have put it for sale.
For those keen for a better surface finish - the material is sandable, and takes paint quite well, so i was thinking of doing this to one of mine as a bit of a "DIY Matt Paint Finish" tutorial for those who fancy it :)
Some prints do indeed require a wash. The support material is a clearish gel that dissolves in water. A toothbrush in any details (like the bayonet grooves) is great for getting rid of any excess that Shapeways may not have removed.
With regards the tightness, of the 4 i've printed, 3 were stiff, but fine, but one was really very stiff indeed. I scraped the bayonet groove out a little and it fit better - after mounting it about 10 times in a row, it was fine.
This is due to the 0.2mm tolerance of Shapeways manufacturing process. I have designed down to 0.05mm accuracy, with the aim of it being a little tighter, rather than too loose.
This is because it's easier to scrape a little out of the groove for a stiff fit, than to try and add material to fix a looser fit. So far i've heard most say that it's firm, but not lens-breakingly tight. My tight print actually moved the bayonet slightly when attaching it! It turned back okay when i removed it tho.
I've had one person contact me saying it was so loose, it wouldn't stay on at all. This was pretty surprising. I asked them to contact Shapeways who suggested it was my fault and they had printed it exactly, but once they directed them to this thread and they saw the level of fit designed in and the QC on the product, they relented and gave a full credit refund on the print so that he could order another print.
Some time after Xmas i'll sort out a full FAQ, with images, how-tos and details of some of your experiences, so that anyone who orders, or is thinking of, knows what to expect, any possible issues etc.
This is one of the reasons i've not released the CV21 and CV25 hoods yet, i want to make sure that any issues that might occur, are rooted out before going any further, as i want to offer really cool stuff for all you guys and make everyone as happy as possible! I would be horrified if people weren't getting what they paid for and as i love this place, i certainly don't want to go getting myself a bad rep over a project that was entered into with the best intents :)
Thanks again everyone! I hope i can provide great hoods for everyone that wants one on every lens they like!
Keep up the great work! My compact version of nokton 35mm 1.4 is coming in by the end of the week and I will post my findings. I really like the look of a square hood (more classy than common round, vented one) and would love to have it for all the lenses I use.
For those who have been asking for an update - i'm taking a break til after xmas as things are busy busy, but then i'll be right back into this, working on new hoods and getting the 21/25s out :)
Thanks for the feedback and support guys!
Still happy to meet in the new year with my lenses. I also now have an M9 if that is any help testing for vignetting!
Still happy to meet in the new year with my lenses. I also now have an M9 if that is any help testing for vignetting!
Awesome!
Sorry i've not been able to meet up before Xmas, it's been far busier that i thought it would be.
Access to an M9 would be incredibly helpful indeed - i may have to make you official tester :)
Cheers and see you in the new year Jim!
Awesome!
Sorry i've not been able to meet up before Xmas, it's been far busier that i thought it would be.
Access to an M9 would be incredibly helpful indeed - i may have to make you official tester :)
Cheers and see you in the new year Jim!
Sounds good to me. I will wait to hear from you in the new year.
Erik Gunst Lund
12-18-2012, 23:55
From the images/text I can't see if you have made an actual bayonet mount on the lens hoods or if they are 'press fit' only?
I realize that some of the lenses don't have bayonet mounts...
Erik Gunst Lund
12-19-2012, 00:47
Another question: How are you going to make the 'interface' for the 21mm 4 Voigtlander, with threads or press fit onto the original lens hood?
Erik, the hoods for lenses with bayonet are actually bayonet-mount.
The ones for the CV thread-mounts are push-on the small original hood.
Erik Gunst Lund
12-19-2012, 13:56
Thanks! Great :)
I would like to order 21mm 4 for M8u when Available.
Hi all,
It's been kindly brought to my attention that because this DIY project has evolved into actual products, it breeches the forum policy on advertising.
As I cannot afford to advertise here, and of course I would in an instant if possible, I've asked for the thread to be removed :)
I respect the policy and the forum and never intended to pull one over on anyone, so I humbly apologise.
I will post purely DIY, non-profit, projects of mine in the future as I love to share and love this forum and it's members.
Thanks!
Hi Chris,
Perhaps they will allow you to post in the classifieds. Doesn't hurt to ask.
Keep up the good work!
Regards,
Robert
IanBiggar
01-09-2013, 03:21
Cris
Now I've found this thread again you can ignore my pm tho' with you not being allowed to "carry on" I may have lost you again.
I was looking for a lens hood for my CV 25mm f4 on my M9.
Will you still be making these independent from this forum or not?
I'm up in Scotland (for what it's worth)
Ian
Blaufeld
01-21-2013, 03:01
BTW, if anyone is interested, in the attic I have a box of 10 (?) unused FSU hoods that are rectangular...can't remember the fitting size...all in their original packaging, brown cardboard etc etc.............
If the size is 40.5, I could be interested...
Feel free to contact me with infos.
buzzardkid
01-21-2013, 04:17
Hi Chris,
Perhaps they will allow you to post in the classifieds. Doesn't hurt to ask.
Keep up the good work!
Regards,
Robert
+1 on that (and Hi, Robert! :))
Can't be an issue to post in the classifieds every now and then since you pay for the ads, and it keeps you on the radar for us RF afficinados!
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