Is there a reasonable rangefinder for under $50?

[MarylandBill]

Hi,

Ok, this might be a ridiculous question, but having two young children in the house means money is tight, and I doubt I could convince the wife to go for a film camera that cost more than that (at least until I have a demonstrated history of use and decent results).

Anyway, getting frustrated with what I can do with the rather slow lens on my digital compact, and I was thinking of looking into film at the same time. So essentially this is what I am looking for in a camera; please tell me if it is reasonable and what I should look for.

1. Figure 35-50mm, F/2 or faster (or is it greater aperture). Primary purpose of the camera is to take candid pics of the kids. Don't figure I want to get too close, and probably don't want to wide of an angle. Would like F/2 or faster so I can take pictures in the house in normal light without having to go crazy on film iso.

2. Definitely would prefer a camera with a real rangefinder. I know there are some viewfinder cameras out there that allow you to focus based on estimated range, but I want something that is a little more sure.

3. A light meter of some kind is also desirable.

I figured my budget limitations put any interchangable lens camera right out (barring a garage sale find or something), but I thought perhaps one with a fixed lens might do the trick.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you folks could give me.

--
Bill

[wallace]

Yashica Electro G series or Lynx come to my mind.

[David Murphy]

Konica Auto S2 or Minolta Hi-Matic 7s are reasonably nice cameras. Sometimes one can find a Kiev 4 or 4a with a J8 for not much more than $50 (watch for light leaks though).

[lawnpotter]

Olympus RC

[wallace]

Olympus RC yes, but it's only 2.8

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

No. None, not even the Yashicas, ever sell that cheap unless they're in bad condition. Really, you can't get any decent camera of any type that cheap, except a few older 35mm SLRs from orphaned systems like Minolta MD or Canon FD.

[pinkarmy]

i got my Konica Auto S1.6 (f1.6) for 30euro (+postage) form an Italian seller.
it is in great condition and took great pictures until the advance lever refuse to cock the shutter.
took me around $30 to get it fixed.

Konica Auto S2 (f1.8) is a good choice because there's many choice around the auction-bay.
i believe "pre-GIII" Canon QL17 (f1.7), QL19 (f1.9) are good choices too because of the lens...

BUT the black horse for you should be Minolta Hi-matic 9 (f1.7).
I prefer Minolta Hi-matic 9 to Hi-matic 7--because many had said that HM9 has better lens, and it is very under-valued at the moment.
it could be set at full manual setting so even if the battery part is screwed up (mine has dead meter) it still takes beautiful pictures.

HOWEVER:
just a little advice out of my own experience,
if your children, like my 8-month-young, are constant moving kind of kids,
the greater the aperture mean the great chance of out-of-focus picture,
any tiny movement will make you yell at your kid, no matter how you always love them.

so in conclusion,
1) a rangefinder camera with f2.8 (cheaper, more brand choices) is actually the perfect choice for your condition.

2) i also believe any Japanese rangefinder is much better (=easier to use) than a Soviet one, especially when your main object is your children (and wife).

3) wider lens actually is better for you to take candid photos indoor.

Have fun.

[astrosecret]

I got a yashica GT for 10$ on ebay because the seller didn't know if it was working or how to find out. i'm confident you can find a working yashica GSN for well under 50$ and it produces amazing pictures.

[rolleistef]

Got my Himatic in perfectly fine condition for 30€ including shipping, and it is an excellent camera with a wonderful lens, so yes, it is possible to find a RF camera for less than 50$/€ with a bit of patience :)

[bonatto]

maybe a fed 3 with a 51mm lens....got mine for under 50, came with a separate lightmeter too! (heve some pics in my gallery)

[sanmich]

I love RF's, but for kids...
get yourself an AF SLR, something like a Nikon N8008, F90 or N80, and a 50mm 1.8...
Any good SLR from the 90's should fill the bill
You should be able to get them at around 80$...

[batterytypehah!]

I agree, your requirements are much easier to meet with an SLR. Is this something you would consider?

[batterytypehah!]

I also suspect that the focusing accuracy of some fast-lensed compact RFs is not actually up to the job when shooting wide open. At least that seems to be the case with my 400SE. I haven't tried any others.

[Frontman]

You can find any number of rangefinder cameras for under $50, but whether the camera you find actually works is another matter. About half the old Yashicas I come across don't work. When they are working, they are superb, when they aren't working, they make attractive paperweights. If you go to a large flea market, you can probably find buy a half a dozen old rangefinders with your $50, and maybe have enough change left to buy some film.

[pagpow]

THere's also this thread

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77821

Good luck

Giorgio

[The Meaness]

I live in MD and can possibly hook you up. PM me.

[iandiam]

Hi,...

1. Figure 35-50mm, F/2 or faster ...
2. Definitely would prefer a camera with a real rangefinder....
3. A light meter of some kind is also desirable....

I figured my budget limitations put any interchangable lens camera right out (barring a garage sale find or something), but I thought perhaps one with a fixed lens might do the trick.

...

Bill,

If you're interested, PM me. I have a handful of old Yaschica Electro 35s, in various colors and iterations. Beautiful, fast, colorful 45/1.7 and aperture-priority auto exposure. NO full manual, but still a great daily driver. I have to fix a couple promised to friends, and I'll be glad to fix another one for you for the price of shipping, maybe $10 paypal?

Ian

[zuiko85]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the camera is only a minor expense with film photography. You say the missus would notice a purchase of over $50? Good grief man, film and processing will run more than that in a very short time. I just spent $130 for film 6 months ago.

[emilsand]

How many times would you mind spending $50? Seriously, I went down this road when I first got into rangefinders, and I have never bought so much junk in my life. If you are able to get one locally, it might be worth it, but I would pick a classic SLR any day of the week.

[timor]

No. None, not even the Yashicas, ever sell that cheap unless they're in bad condition. Really, you can't get any decent camera of any type that cheap, except a few older 35mm SLRs from orphaned systems like Minolta MD or Canon FD.
Chris is right, I have two Yashicas I bought under $50, they are in just so-so shape, operational but... On the other hand there is nothing wrong with Minolta MD, for $50-60 one from X series (X700, X570 or X370) with 50/1.7 prime (50/1.4 may cost just few dollars extra). They are smaller in size than average rangefinder and they are joy to shoot. Aim for X700 do.

[timor]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the camera is only a minor expense with film photography. You say the missus would notice a purchase of over $50? Good grief man, film and processing will run more than that in a very short time. I just spent $130 for film 6 months ago.
Even film is just small expense if you actually print your negatives in the darkroom.

[pinkarmy]

wow...is this still a rangefinder forum...;-)

[FalseDigital]

No. None, not even the Yashicas, ever sell that cheap unless they're in bad condition. Really, you can't get any decent camera of any type that cheap, except a few older 35mm SLRs from orphaned systems like Minolta MD or Canon FD.

I must disagree with you. I bought a near mint Yashica Electro 35 GSN for $30. It was my first rangefinder and still performs like a champ.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I must disagree with you. I bought a near mint Yashica Electro 35 GSN for $30. It was my first rangefinder and still performs like a champ.

You got lucky. Luck doesn't mean anyone else can do it. Lets get real here. These cameras in good condition sell for a lot more than $50 normally. The OP doesn't need to be lied to or given false hope. HIS chances of duplicating your good luck are miniscule. If he wants a camera, he simply has to pay what it costs, barring a stroke of unlikely luck.

[Ronald_H]

You got lucky. Luck doesn't mean anyone else can do it. Lets get real here. These cameras in good condition sell for a lot more than $50 normally. The OP doesn't need to be lied to or given false hope. HIS chances of duplicating your good luck are miniscule. If he wants a camera, he simply has to pay what it costs, barring a stroke of unlikely luck.

Let's look at my rangefinders shall we? All bought within a time span of about three years.

Canon Canonet QL17 GIII. 20 Euros at a swap meet. Seller knew what he had.

FED 5c + Industar 50mm. Free (gift from a friend).

Zorki 4K + 50mm. 40 Euros, bought from a colleague (unfortunately the shutter was bad).

Olympus XA. 20 Euros at a swap meet. Seller knew what he had.

Canon Canonet QL19. 5 euros at a flea market. Seller was clueless.

All of these cameras worked when I bought them, except for the Zorki.

[timor]

wow...is this still a rangefinder forum...;-)
Is X100 a rangefinder ? Only looks like one :bang: .You should ask this question when digital was permitted here :D.

[ColSebastianMoran]

Here's my experience:

Seven Yashica Electros. Two worked for a while, then died. Before long, all needed work. I've had four of them fixed up by either Russ Sisco or Mark Hama and they are now terrific. I think it's very unlikely to have a $20 Electro work reliably unless it has been serviced in the last decade. Russ will clear up most problems for well under $100. Mark has parts and can fix almost anything. I highly recommend both of them. One way or another, for $100, you can have a reliable Electro.

One Canon QL17 GIII. Intermittent. And, I bought this from a camera repairer!

Three Yashica FR-1, fabulous camera, close cousin of Contax RTS. $25 each, all work 100% (except for frame counter, a standard flaw in this camera). Yes, it's an SLR, but these seem to keep working. Several Nikons can be had dirt-cheap.

Vivitar 35es, great rangefinder camera, $20, works perfectly and is a great camera, excellent 40mm lens. Shutter priority AE. Very similar to Minolta Hi-Matic 7sII and to the Revue 400SE. This is one that isn't getting bid up to high prices.

My recommendation: Up your budget to $100. Try a Yashica Electro GSN/GTN that's been repaired, or the Vivitar 35es. Or, Plan B, for $50, a cheap SLR to try out the idea. My favorite of all these is the Yashica GX, but that will be $120 or more.

Hope this helps. Good shooting!

[Brian Legge]

The Ricoh 35 line of rangefinders is fairly inexpensive.

[biomed]

You got lucky. Luck doesn't mean anyone else can do it. Lets get real here. These cameras in good condition sell for a lot more than $50 normally. The OP doesn't need to be lied to or given false hope. HIS chances of duplicating your good luck are miniscule. If he wants a camera, he simply has to pay what it costs, barring a stroke of unlikely luck.

Chris, I am inclined to agree with you even though I found two Electro 35s in the OP's price range. They both came with battery adapters. I went through some grief with FSU cameras with a bit of luck on a Zorki 4/Jupiter 8 for $16.50 from here in the states. It is always a gamble buying a camera sight unseen. If an inexpensive camera is defective it is not always worth the cost or effort to return it to the seller. An old friend gave me a Minolta HiMatic that is in very good shape. He picked it up at a garage sale for $5. I believe, based on experience, that most of the cameras in the under $50 price range will need some sort of service to be a reliable shooter. I am not saying that finding a good camera under $50 is impossible. You may find one with a lot of searching or, perhaps someone on RFF has a deal for you. Good luck, Bill.

[oftheherd]

I have to agree with Chris and others on an SLR. We have all bought cameras at bargain prices. Most of us have an idea how to check to ensure our chances for getting a good one. Even so, we sometimes find it didn't work out. Also, during our checking, we no doubt found a lot that we just wouldn't buy at the asked price. As Chris said, there is nothing to gain from giving the OP false hope. There really are bargains out there, but I at least, don't find 10 or 12 every day.

The problem with the OP is that we have no idea what his experience is with cameras, much less film cameras. Can he judge if he will get a bargain or a lemon? I can't always do that myself. Is he hung up on an RF to the exclusion of SLR? Or is he just thinking at RF would be cheaper? Where is he going to buy his RF or even SLR?

Can you give us a few more clues OP? We might be better able to suggest something.

[batterytypehah!]

It can be done, but I would agree that the Yashicas aren't good, repeatable examples. But you could look for something with less of a following. Vivitar has been mentioned already. There is also perpetual underdog Petri. Pacific Rim just sold a Petri 7, 45/1.8, fully working, with a filter ring dent and cracked plastic, else EX-, for $30 plus shipping.

[pinkarmy]

...The problem with the OP is that we have no idea what his experience is with cameras, much less film cameras. Can he judge if he will get a bargain or a lemon? I can't always do that myself. Is he hung up on an RF to the exclusion of SLR? Or is he just thinking at RF would be cheaper? Where is he going to buy his RF or even SLR?...

the OP asked for suggestion on buying a rangefinder camera and he had stated that his subject is mainly his kids indoor.

i am not going to explain to him that may be what he really need is a Football.:D

[Jack Conrad]

Yeah, I've got a $10 Petri 7s that's right up there in performance with any of my more expensive models. Excellent soft shutter release. Accurate selenium meter. Clear viewfinder and rf patch.
It just "feels" a little tinny in the hand.

On the other hand, I have this Vito B I haven't even shot yet that I picked up for $20. It wasn't working at all, but finally got it going, although imperfectly. However, what a beauty the way it fits the hand. If it takes pictures as well as it looks and feels, it'll be a gem.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/jackconrad/Cameras/file-69.jpg

[FalseDigital]

Well then I must "get lucky" nearly every day because I see cheap fixed lens RFs left and right.

I bought my Canonet GIII QL 17 for $5. It's in gorgeous shape, even the battery check light works.

I got my Yashica MG-1 for $20. Yet again, near mint! Came with original Yashica case.

I got a Minolta Hi-Matic E for $20. Fully working, with original leather case.

I paid $20 for my Olympus XA w/ 2 flashes. Fully working.

All of these deals were easily found in Michigan and NYC.
Just browse on craigslist or go to a thrift shop.

However someone said earlier we are unaware if the OP has the experience to determine if the cameras in front of him are in working order. If that's the case it becomes much harder. But by no means are cheap/good RFs scarce.

[MarylandBill]

Hi again,

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.

I am not totally hung up on the idea of rangefinders, but I do really like the rangefinder concept (particularly the method of focusing them and the ability to see your subject constantly through out the shot). My knowledge of film is mostly theoretical... I figured I would start with a fairly cheap camera and see what I can do. If I can produce promising results with a fairly cheap camera, then I might be able to justify spending more money on a better camera later.

--
Bill

[MarylandBill]

the OP asked for suggestion on buying a rangefinder camera and he had stated that his subject is mainly his kids indoor.

i am not going to explain to him that may be what he really need is a Football.:D

Actually I didn't say it would be mainly indoors, but realistically, a significant amount of the photography would be indoors. I figure most <= f/2.0 lenses will shoot at slower speeds, but you can't make a f/2.8 shoot faster. Therefore, if I had a camera that worked for indoor candid shots, it probably would also work on the kids at the sand table.

--
Bill

[asfarley]

I second the Minolta 7s recommendation. I've bought 3 at $60, $30 and $30 and they all work perfectly. This is without much searching, either. I see them on ebay, Kijiji and Craigslist fairly often in this price range.

[timor]

Actually I didn't say it would be mainly indoors, but realistically, a significant amount of the photography would be indoors. I figure most <= f/2.0 lenses will shoot at slower speeds, but you can't make a f/2.8 shoot faster. Therefore, if I had a camera that worked for indoor candid shots, it probably would also work on the kids at the sand table.

--
Bill
In such a case I will still suggest serious investigation of Minolta slr. For indoors lens of f/2 or f/1.7 is good, but f/1.4 is even better and RF with such a lens will go much higher in price, but Rokkor 58/1.4 goes for 40-60 bucks. In addition the extra 8 mm of focal length will give better stand off position for candid shots. Minolta's program mode in X700 is very quick and that will help to. The only thing is, that slr is a bit noisier (mirror slap).

[MarylandBill]

Hi Everyone again,

Thanks for all the advice... I guess my best option is an SLR? Alas I figured a rangefinder with a fixed lens would be cheaper than any SLR.. but I guess there are a lot more film SLRs floating around out there? Alas, I was hoping for a good excuse to get a rangefinder :). Maybe if I take enough pictures with the SLR, I can make a case for spending more on a decent rangefinder :).

--
Bill

[Dave S.]

Hi Marylandbill,

I empathize with your situation - kids, budget, and an interest in rangefinder cameras… I was dismayed to read your last post indicating you've decided to abandon trying out a rangefinder camera. If you are interested, I would be more than happy to ship you a used yet fully functional Fujica Compact Deluxe rangefinder camera (see photo below) gratis. It has a small ding in the top plate on one corner, but this is pretty minor. Otherwise it's in great user shape. I believe it meets your original criteria as well:

Lens: 45mm
Aperture: f1.8
Meter: Accurate compared to other cameras I trust. Takes a commonly available battery too!

Again, I'll mail you this for free with no shipping charge either - just pm me.

Some previous posts pointed out how costly shooting film can be… Of course, there are many ways to cut these costs, but my preferred method (balance between cost and ease) is as follows:

- I buy my film from various sources, but often from B & H photo on the web. They're very reputable and not too expensive.

- I shoot Kodak BW400CN (black & white), Kodak Ektar 100, or Fujifilm Press 800. These can all be developed at any drug store photo lab.

- I process my film at Costco. The cost breaks down this way:

$4 - $5 per roll of film (approximately)
$8.96 (including tax) processing at Costco - this includes development, 1 set of 4x6 prints, and a DVD with jpeg scans (3636 × 2432 / 3 - 4 megabytes)

That's about $13 - $14 for a roll of 36 pictures. Cheap, no. Worth it? Yes, in my book anyway.


Send me a pm in the next few days if you are interested in the Fujica...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6724282471_2a011cae68_z.jpg

[pinkarmy]

go get it Bill. Fujinon is GREAT. enjoy rangefinder camera photography!

[emayoh]

My user Olympus XA was $20 and it's great -- I would imagine especially for kids (no lens cap to lose!, hard to damage, lighter than a Yashica or Canonet for little arms to hold)

But, also wanted to echo FalseDigital's sentiments. I've picked up four Canonet G-IIIs in the past 5 years. The price ranged from $0 (in two separate cases) to a max of $30. They all worked fine for general shooting.

These type cameras are no false hope.

[emayoh]

This topic also got me thinking about other considerations for getting children into rangefinder photography. I know the OP's requirement was for a very fast lens, but I wonder if working with such a shallow depth of field isn't a lot of complexity to put on a novice shooter who may like to see some sharp results early in their career to build confidence. This is not to say I know better than the OP for his family, but just offering general thoughts. We all probably think using a tiny accessory flash gives harsh results, but for a child, it may really be encouraging so take indoor snaps at F8-F11 and then develop something nice and sharp and well-exposed. Even today I think I rely too much on f1.8 and can get frustrated when it turns out I could not focus on family moments well fast enough. I guess it depends on if you think the children will enjoy taking still lifes where they can really spend time with focus and depth of field, or if they want to take pics of Spot and Muffin the cat and little brother running around, where f/1.4 might be a recipe for disappointment.

Have fun though. It will be a great experience for you I'm sure!

[emiguevara]

I was feeling lucky a couple years ago, and ordered a Zorki 4k from the auction site with a Jupiter 8. It is an excellent camera, and my lens is a great performer. It gets used on an M2 now and then, and never disappoints. But I guess that a lot of luck is needed to score a good one at your first try...

[Red Robin]

Hunt the 2nd hand stores, pawn shops,in your area let them know what you want. Me ? I have a long list of under $50. cameras I have found and use. To be sure there are some real dogs out there but the hunt is fun and I like participating in camera rescue.especially when a classic in found. Good hunting

[TimeShot]

Check out a Yashica IC Lynx-14E it has a very fast 1.4 lens. Be prepared to do a little cleaning and/or repair after all they are 40 + years old.

[vidgamer]

I have a small collection of RFs and I didn't pay much for any of them. Well, a couple of them were given to me.... :-)

I got an Oly RC for something like $10, as the meter has a flaw; I think they originally wanted $60 or $80 or something like that, for what was a bit of a beat-up camera. I figured for $10, it was worth it to play with. It actually works better than it looks. :-)

I got a Petri 7s 1.7 for around $20 including shipping. That's a really nice one, I think, but quirky. It comes in both 1.7 and 2.8 lenses.

I've seen Hi-matic 7/9/11 go for auction in the, let's say, $25-50 range, so I think that's certainly doable to get one of these cheaply. The Olympus Trip is popular, if you can live with f2.8 and zone focusing; I used one of these for years (before I was more interested in photography).

I think there's a lot of decent fixed-lens RFs available at really good prices. If you want the most popular or the best ones, you will pay a lot more. For example, the Hi-Matic 7sII is highly regarded, but really expensive. But noone knows Petri, so it goes unnoticed. I think part of the price is driven by size; some of these models mentioned (Konica S2?, Minolta 7/9/11, Petri 7s, etc.) are physically large. Also, if you can fall back to a 2.8 lens, things will be cheaper. I think I paid all of $20 inc. shipping for a Canonet 2.8 and gave that to my sis. It's not the best, but not bad. I think I prefer the trip tho.

My beef with auction sites is that the condition is unknown. The sellers often don't know if the camera works, or if they are more knowledgable, the price is often higher. It's a bit of a risk shopping this way.

Good luck!

[Oldskewl808]

You got lucky. Luck doesn't mean anyone else can do it. Lets get real here. These cameras in good condition sell for a lot more than $50 normally. The OP doesn't need to be lied to or given false hope. HIS chances of duplicating your good luck are miniscule. If he wants a camera, he simply has to pay what it costs, barring a stroke of unlikely luck.

I just snagged a mint condition, fully functional GSN with case for $29.00 from the big auction. They are out there if you keep looking hard enough. I also have a Konica Auto S2, a Minolta Hi-Matic, and a Petri Racer that all have three things in common... 1= they work, 2= they take great photos, and 3= they all cost me less than $50.00.:cool:

[Jeremy Z]

I have a Konica Auto S2 in great shape I'm willing to part with.

Drop me an email if you're interested. jzorns at yahoo dot com

I bought it for the same reason you're thinking about. But I'm not doing film any more, and I'd rather it go to an RFF member than some nameless person on eBay. You've got dibbs.

[krohmie]

What abot a Revue 400 SE (http://krohmies.de/2010/10/20/messuchervirus-diagnose-unheilbar-die-revue-400-se/)

http://krohmies.de/__oneclick_uploads/2010/10/revue-400se-1.jpg

Fast 40mm 1,7 lens ans a real bargain (around 30 to 40 Euros @ ebay).

Some pictures are here: http://krohmies.de/2012/03/02/trostpflaster-revue-400-se/

Yashica Lynx 14 E (http://krohmies.de/2009/08/09/es-werde-lichtyashica-lynx-14-e-mit-yashinon-45mm-114/) is quite good too but runs around 100 Euros. And the Lynx 14E is a really big camera, roughly the same size as a Leica M.

[bitoffun]

This topic also got me thinking about other considerations for getting children into rangefinder photography.

You know what I'm remembering? -- all the shots of kids when I was a kid in rangefinder era involve standing still to pose.

I mean if the OP want to try for Cartier-Bresson shots, that's terrific. It's just worth saying that'll be an interesting challenge that'll take a while to get results. Not that that can't be enjoyable.

[Hibbs]

I found a mint condition Electro 35 GN in a local pawn shop for $26 CDN. When I told the owner that they don't make batteries any longer and that it was dependent on battery, he said he'd have to phone the old guy who brought it in.

Anyway, another $18 to the Yashica Guy for his battery replacement and I am good to go.

I also sourced a 35GX locally on eBay that had a broken viewfinder window for about $35 CDN and sent it to Greyhoundman for restore. So, all in all under $100.

— HIBBS

[klownshed]

I got an Olympus 35 LC for under £40.00. It has the same f1.7 42mm lens as the SP, it's just missing the SPs spot metering but has a coupled meter. Fully manual.

Lovely camera, but quite big compared to a 35 RC.