Fujifilm X-Pro1 details leaked!!!

[whtchocla7e]

Fujifilm X-Pro1
- custom 16-megapixel APS-CMOS sensor incorporating a new filter array and EXR technology
- second generation hybrid viewfinder
- 18/2.0, 35/1.4, 60/2.4/Macro prime lenses


Fujifilm Introduces First Compact System Camera

...

The new models include the X-Pro1, X-S1 (shipping this month at an expected $800 suggested retail) and a new F series model in the F750EXR (shipping in March at an expected $350).

The highlight of the offerings is the Fujifilm X-Pro1, which is a highly featured compact system camera. Fuji-filim said it will build on the success of the X100 model, by adding a camera that features a custom-developed 16-megapixel APS-CMOS sensor incorporating a new filter array and the company's proprietary EXR processor technology.

The camera also includes a second-generation hybrid view-finder and takes three prime interchangeable Fuji-non lenses, all with fast apertures.

The lenses include: the 18mm (27mm equivalent) f/2.0, 35mm (53mm equivalent) f/1.4 and 60mm (90mm equivalent) f/2.4.

...

LINK (https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442481)

[celluloidprop]

A little disappointed at no 35/2 (if the specs are true), but I'll survive. 28/50 will work.

[dazedgonebye]

I could want faster on the 60mm...but, this looks awful good.

[keytarjunkie]

sounds expensive...

[ChrisN]

No 35mm-equivalent field of view lens? Fail!

[BTMarcais]

There's still the x100 for the 35mm FOV, so that doesn't worry me so much.

I'm more of a fifty guy anyway though...

-Brian

[Rogier]

No 35mm-equivalent field of view lens? Fail!

Unless the quoted focal lengths are already corrected to the equivalent of 35mm film :roll eyes:

In that case it would be AWESOME!

[Nikon Bob]

If true I am more interested in this than the possible Nikon D4. The focal lengths will work for me alright. Fingers crossed.

Bob

[regularchickens]

It makes sense that they'd avoid the 35mm equivalent length, so as not to cannibalize X100 sales.

[Mephiloco]

If there were a wider offering I'd be sold. 28mm never seemed wide enough to me, 21 equivalent and I'm sold 100%. It still looks to be a winner to me even without a wider lens in the initial offering, depending on the cost of the primes

[monochromejrnl]

link seems bogus to me... Greg Tarr at Wells Fargo drafting/publishing press release for Fujifilm?

The Nikon D4 leak was also allegedly written by the same person and posted on the same 'Wells Fargo' website.

... Looking forward to the real info from fujifilm

[ChrisP]

I'm assuming this means 1.5x crop factor but with that named are all my images going to look like I shot them on slide film but developed for c41?

[Adanac]

link seems bogus to me... Greg Tarr at Wells Fargo drafting/publishing press release for Fujifilm?

I don't think it is bogus; there was a press release from Fujifilm embargoed until 1200AM ET; this story is 12:01. I haven't seen the PR yet but did see an alert from Fuji themselves saying it was coming.

[Harry Lime]

But will it zone focus or will this be another camera that is useless for street photography?

[Spyro]

But will it zone focus or will this be another camera that is useless for street photography?

guess you'll have to work around it with the distance scale in the VF and the LCD. I dont expect to see lenses with AF and mechanical rings from Fuji (or anyone for that matter)

I wonder if there's a chance for a manual focus lens.

[bwcolor]

Can't get both the NEX-7 and the X-Pro1. I have the Hawks M adapter for the NEX-7, but if the viewfinder will allow.. an adapted Fuji will undoubtedly work better with the Biogons. I sure hope Fuji is quick to get some cameras out for review, but I'm not holding my breath. The Fuji system lenses will leave Sony in the dust.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

If its like the stuff Fuji's introduced in recent years, it'll cost 3 times what its worth and will be crippled by some serious flaw that makes it useless to serious artists. Sad, cause it looks like a cool idea.

[naruto]

But will it zone focus or will this be another camera that is useless for street photography?

Eventually, some enterprising individual will create an adapter for mounting a Summitar on it, or imagine the Millenium Nikkor 50/1.4.

:D

[celluloidprop]

Curious what the X100's crippling flaw to serious artists is.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Poor autofocus and too much shutter lag, from what I've read. At the price of over $1000, I won't even consider trying something like that. Not when you can buy a Nikon or Canon D-SLR for half that with same image quality and a better camera.

[gavinlg]

I dont expect to see lenses with AF and mechanical rings from Fuji (or anyone for that matter)

zuiko 12mm f2 for m4/3 - mechanical focus ring with distance scales.

[rxmd]

zuiko 12mm f2 for m4/3 - mechanical focus ring with distance scales.

As far as I know it's focus-by-wire, too, "only the wire is shorter".

Focus-by-wire is the norm now. It would be quite difficult nowadays to build a lens with a traditional mechanical focusing helical and focus ring, then have the autofocus motor turn the ring, and have the whole system feel good, because you'll be manually focusing against the motor all the time. If you want an idea what a good focus-by-wire system can feel like, look no further than the Carl Zeiss lenses for the Contax N system. They're so well damped that people don't notice they're focus-by-wire.

[celluloidprop]

I've never experienced noticeable shutter lag with the X100 - AF isn't great, no question. Arguably faster in a number of instances than a manual rangefinder, but other contrast systems seem faster.

It's certainly not a perfect camera, if such a thing can ever exist, but crippled and useless for serious artists is absurdly hyperbolic.

[250swb]

And as soon as the X-Pro1 is about to hit the shops another manufacturer will announce its next best camera in the 'mock rangefinder' arena, and a whole new round of dithering about what to buy will start. Should I wait for this, should I buy that? All those photographs waiting for just the right camera to come along, the world will be blessed. Or we could just buy an M8 or M9 now and get on with it :rolleyes:

And lets not forget Leica themselves are going to be responsible for throwing a spanner in the works with their EVIL system. At some point one of the big boys, maybe even Fuji this time around, will throw their lot in with Leica and the battle will be won. As soon as any other system can take the new Leica EVIL system lenses (I don't mean via adapters, but fully functional) all other talk of what to get will be negated because it will be competing against the best. Leica and one other player will own the market.

Steve

[johannielscom]

'Second generation viewfinder'

Still I think it would be feasable to have that viewfinder blind pop up with a square hole in the middle, have the EVF engage and then the photographer can manually focus the lens by lining up the optical image and the electronical image: a digital rangefinder concept!

It would work just opposite from a Leica rangefinder, the smaller patch would be OVF and always in focus and you would have to line up the electronic image that surrounds it.

It that would be a 'second generation viewfinder' and they have improved on manual focusing, it might be a pretty nice experience altogether!

[Bobfrance]

But is it as good as a Holga? :D

[k__43]

'Second generation viewfinder'

Still I think it would be feasable to have that viewfinder blind pop up with a square hole in the middle, have the EVF engage and then the photographer can manually focus the lens by lining up the optical image and the electronical image: a digital rangefinder concept!

It would work just opposite from a Leica rangefinder, the smaller patch would be OVF and always in focus and you would have to line up the electronic image that surrounds it.

It that would be a 'second generation viewfinder' and they have improved on manual focusing, it might be a pretty nice experience altogether!


oh yes, please!

[whtchocla7e]

Zooming hybrid-viewfinder!

http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p8.jpg

[dogbunny]

That pic in the lower right corner is a limited addition X100 in black?

[randomm]

So, with my limited French, did I understand correctly that it is expected body with the 35mm lens to cost circa 1300 euros?

[whtchocla7e]

Pretty much. Sound like a decent deal.

[Carterofmars]

Nice indeed.

[gavinlg]

Oh crap.. I may need to get this. A 50mm f1.4 and a 28mm f2 pancake is pretty much my ultimate lens setup on a small camera. The question is - do I sell my x100 to get it, and will they make more lenses for this setup - like a 35mm!

[Jaime M]

Oh crap.. I may need to get this. A 50mm f1.4 and a 28mm f2 pancake is pretty much my ultimate lens setup on a small camera.

Same here!

I've regret to buy a X100 because of the electronic viewfinder, but if there is a real hybrid rangefinder it would be awesome.

[Waus]

Oh my! And I was just convinced that I should by myself an Ricoh GR-D....

[exiled4979]

Poor autofocus and too much shutter lag, from what I've read. At the price of over $1000, I won't even consider trying something like that. Not when you can buy a Nikon or Canon D-SLR for half that with same image quality and a better camera.

it's almost impossible to imagine where would you need a pro-dslr-lever autofocus in RF-like camera as an artist! The only possible use would be in sports, and X100, or "serious artist" is a bit out of place shooting skiing, football or F1 racing :)

[Photon42]

That pic in the lower right corner is a limited addition X100 in black?

That's what the article says. "Limited" to 10'000 units. Comes with leather pouch. Looks good to me but I'm afraid I'm so old that I prefer the classy chrome look :rolleyes:

Cheers
Ivo

[exiled4979]

Oh crap.. I may need to get this. A 50mm f1.4 and a 28mm f2 pancake is pretty much my ultimate lens setup on a small camera. The question is - do I sell my x100 to get it, and will they make more lenses for this setup - like a 35mm!

sooner or later, fuji will produce a 35mm for this, since this is a brand new system, I don't think it's fair to expect them to cover every focal length from the beginning, but over time... just like m4/3, or any other system that started from scratch, not everything is launched with the first camera

[Vobluda]

I only hope that it will have at least AF or MF, not like x100 with no F at all.

[gavinlg]

sooner or later, fuji will produce a 35mm for this, since this is a brand new system, I don't think it's fair to expect them to cover every focal length from the beginning, but over time... just like m4/3, or any other system that started from scratch, not everything is launched with the first camera

I'm aware of this, but it has an optical hybrid finder, which mean it will have set frame lines. what I was wondering is if they will expand the lens line or just keep it as-is...

I only hope that it will have at least AF or MF, not like x100 with no F at all.

Poor autofocus and too much shutter lag, from what I've read. At the price of over $1000, I won't even consider trying something like that. Not when you can buy a Nikon or Canon D-SLR for half that with same image quality and a better camera.

My x100 focusses fine, even in low light. ISO 5000, wide open, 1/50th, just fine. And Chris - the x100 definitely has NO shutter lag. Mine probably has less than my 5d.

[jsrockit]

No 35mm-equivalent field of view lens? Fail!

Buy the X100 then... :rolleyes:

[Photon42]

Some excerpts in English (my quotes in parenthesis). Neither English nor French are my MT, so please be kind:

------------------
Fuji has confirmed beginning of January the rumors around the new camera system. It will take until march, however, until we'll see it filling the dealer's shelves (if they don't get all ordered beforehand :)) Price environ €1'300 (note: prob. then also US$ 1'300) with 35mm. Lenses around €600 (per lens, I suspect ...). The camera doesn't play in the same league as other hybrid (mirrorless) cameras. Fuji addresses the experienced photographer and makes little compromises with choice of material and design.

The sensor features Fuji's X-Trans technology and has APS-C size with a 1.5x factor compared to 35mm. They haven't yet given the sensor resolution, but it is stated as "equally or not to say superior to 24x36 senors" (that is a quote of a quote ...). The sensor technology (six filters per pixel? - not sure about the word "photosite") is such that it does not require anymore a moiré filter, which is known to reduce resolution.

Lenses with be all metal fix focus lenses, starting with a 2/18, 1.4/35 and 2.4/60 Macro (all focal lengths not converted to 35mm equiv's).

The Finder will be taken from the X100 (more or less), allowing to switch between optical and electronic view. The optical view finder will adjust to the selected focal length automatically (such as, I guess the electronic one ;) ). It looks like the new Fuji seems to have an external autofocus (but I'm not so sure here they are correct with this).

In addition, a leather pouch and a flash will become available.
------------------

Good news, indeed.

Ivo

[jsrockit]

I only hope that it will have at least AF or MF, not like x100 with no F at all.

Huh? WTF?

[raid]

So the consensus is that the stated focal lengths are in the units for the sensor size, so that a 35mm lens is actually a 50mm lens with this camera or do they actually mean a 35mm focal length as we get on a full sensor?

If the 35mm focal length is being avoided in this camera, then the X100 is being protected. It seems to me that the X100 is a better deal.

[Vobluda]

Just my comment on how desperate is the x100 focusing.

Huh? WTF?

[NazgulKing]

Any knowledge of the Flange distance?

[StaaleS]

I _think_ it says 17.7 mm flange distance, if I have translatedotgoogledotcom'd it right...

[dreilly]

it's almost impossible to imagine where would you need a pro-dslr-lever autofocus in RF-like camera as an artist! The only possible use would be in sports, and X100, or "serious artist" is a bit out of place shooting skiing, football or F1 racing :)

If the artist is doing documentary people photography and the people aren't static, I certainly can. Slow autofocus is one thing, but autofocus that fails or focuses on the wrong thing or hunts interminably is a real downer. The RF patch might be a bit slower than some AF systems, but it's consistent and easy to master. I have no experience with the X100, but the reports of poor AF performance have kept me far away. That and the fact that I played with one in a store in Kyoto and I was seriously underwhelmed by both the viewfinder and the build.

Regardless. This new camera looks interesting indeed. The thing that would keep me from early adopting it is waiting to hear about the AF performance.

[rxmd]

I _think_ it says 17.7 mm flange distance, if I have translatedotgoogledotcom'd it right...

That would be short enough that you can build an M-mount adapter without the small throat of the Fuji bayonet getting in the way.

[Gabriel M.A.]

That pic in the lower right corner is a limited addition X100 in black?


Zat ees corret!

[NazgulKing]

That would be short enough that you can build an M-mount adapter without the small throat of the Fuji bayonet getting in the way.

Not least, Fuji's color rendition has been typically nicer than Sony's OOC Jpegs. This camera might be on my list of cameras to look at.

[jsrockit]

Just my comment on how desperate is the x100 focusing.

Been using the X100 for 10 months... no focus issues here. :rolleyes: Seems people either don't know how to use the camera or never have used the camera.

[paulfish4570]

i have no problem at all focusing my x100. i would imagine the same for the x-1.

[jsrockit]

So the consensus is that the stated focal lengths are in the units for the sensor size, so that a 35mm lens is actually a 50mm lens with this camera or do they actually mean a 35mm focal length as we get on a full sensor?

Focal length on lens x 1.5 = real focal length.

If the 35mm focal length is being avoided in this camera, then the X100 is being protected. It seems to me that the X100 is a better deal.

Better deal only if you want a 35mm equiv.

[NazgulKing]

In all likelihood, Fuji will simply approach this camera the same way Leica does theirs. Just produce a wide range of primes, slowly but surely...

[dogbunny]

Been using the X100 for 10 months... no focus issues here. :rolleyes: Seems people either don't know how to use the camera or never have used the camera.


You should know by now that the people who know the most about the short-comings of a particular camera are those who do not own it. :)

[Archlich]

Images are coming out:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/first-image-of-the-fuji-x-pro/

1300 Euros seem nice for a kit.

[raid]

Focal length on lens x 1.5 = real focal length.



Better deal only if you want a 35mm equiv.

Yes, this is true. If the 35mm focal length is what you want, then the X100 is a good deal.

[jsrockit]

Haven't seen anything about a US price yet... :( I'm hoping Fuji does the whole 1300 euros equals $1300 US thing...instead of a true exchange rate. Sorry eurozoners. ;)

[semordnilap]

I have a nex-5n plus evf. I don't think of it as an rf, but as a tiny slr. As that, it's great with adapted lenses because you can have program the controls to do what you need...

The fuji vf could be more like an rf, if you can manually focus with the optical image. I hope! Don't know if it's possible to implement focus peaking projected onto an optical image? That would be pretty sweet...

Anyway it looks like an interesting camera. I for one am happy with the diversity of new camera ideas/designs, and I'm looking forward to the coming years!!!

[jsrockit]

The fuji vf could be more like an rf, if you can manually focus with the optical image. I hope! Don't know if it's possible to implement focus peaking projected onto an optical image? That would be pretty sweet...

I wouldn't count on the Fuji having a great MF mode. These are AF cameras with MF as a secondary option.

[Photon42]

Focal length on lens x 1.5 = real focal length.



Better deal only if you want a 35mm equiv.

The real focal length is the real focal length the lens actually has. You are stating a conversion into 35mm equiv's with the same field of view, which is what we frequently use.

I'm actually not sure the lens offerings are complete with three lenses. My take is they - as Raid is guessing - are indeed protecting the X100 up to a certain point in time (when sales go down and their stock is sold). I cannot believe they offer a camera with this capabilities without a 35mm equiv in the long run.

Another link maybe: Fujifilm Introduces First Compact System Camera (https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442481)

Ivo

[Photon42]

I wouldn't count on the Fuji having a great MF mode. These are AF cameras with MF as a secondary option.

Which would be ok for me if the AF works well in terms of hitting properly and being really fast. If I then have the option to configure something like a fix f8/3m thing reasonably well, it would be enough for me.

[jsrockit]

The real focal length is the real focal length the lens actually has. You are stating a conversion into 35mm equiv's with the same field of view, which is what we use frequently use.

True, I should have said effective focal length based on 35mm equiv. However, I believe my point still got across.

[hipsterdufus]

This is the first digital I've been excited about for awhile... The lens lineup hits the sweet spot and it would cover all of my shooting range.

[semordnilap]

I wouldn't count on the Fuji having a great MF mode. These are AF cameras with MF as a secondary option.

I agree... I will be surprised if the MF mode is decent. But that's the whole fun of new camera announcements... Speculation!

Anyway, I don't really care for AF...

[Photon42]

Haven't seen anything about a US price yet... :( I'm hoping Fuji does the whole 1300 euros equals $1300 US thing...instead of a true exchange rate. Sorry eurozoners. ;)

It has always been like that or worse here (not sitting in the €-Zone, actually). But then the US$ price is usually given w/o any VAT applied, whereas the price in € normally includes (approx 19%) VAT.

I've recently noted that pricing in Switzerland on electronic camera related stuff quite came down again to reflect the more recent exchange rates to the US$. Some retailers here actually offer competitive pricing compared to e.g. B&H offerings for certain products. Especially accessories however still are often quite overpriced.

[Photon42]

True, I should have said effective focal length based on 35mm equiv. However, I believe my point still got across.

Sure :D

--
ten characters

[emraphoto]

I am completely befuddled by the 'x100 poor af performance' business? am I using the same camera as these folks? The cameras I use are my bread and butter and poor af performance on the x100 would most certainly be an issue for me. Strange part is it isn't?

Well, on the run for the 6th day in a row on unfolding labor story here in Canada (with x100 in tow).

[emraphoto]

Hell, if they put out a black x100 the new X1 whatever will be of little interest to me!

[jsrockit]

I am completely befuddled by the 'x100 poor af performance' business? am I using the same camera as these folks?

Apparently, we have the only two good X100s fuji made... :D

[dazedgonebye]

Any thoughts on the possibility that they mean 18mm, 35mm and 60mm as 35mm film equivalents?
60mm is the odd man out in that trio, but as a macro, not without precedence.

[exiled4979]

If the artist is doing documentary people photography and the people aren't static, I certainly can. Slow autofocus is one thing, but autofocus that fails or focuses on the wrong thing or hunts interminably is a real downer. The RF patch might be a bit slower than some AF systems, but it's consistent and easy to master. I have no experience with the X100, but the reports of poor AF performance have kept me far away. That and the fact that I played with one in a store in Kyoto and I was seriously underwhelmed by both the viewfinder and the build.

Regardless. This new camera looks interesting indeed. The thing that would keep me from early adopting it is waiting to hear about the AF performance.

True, I agree that static and moving people are two different things, but, we're not talking about running people (well, mostly), and it's not like AF in X100 takes 10 seconds to focus on something. I've owned it for a while, did pretty much everything with it and focusing speed in real life is more than enough. It still takes me about 5x longer to compose and take care of all details, than it takes camera to focus.

There is point to AF being slow if you're shooting from hip and just snapping away, or you expect pro-dslr lever AF, but even this is highly questionable. I did couple of hip shots in London, very busy, walking one way, subject walking in the opposite direction and it still managed to focus in time.

I agree it may not work every time perfectly, but, after like a week or so, you learn where to actually place the patch to focus on particular dot, same as with any other camera, even with dSLRs. I wasted like 5 rolls of film doing very shallow DoF portraits with Canon EOS 1n and 50 1.2, until I learned that it focuses on bottom line of the AF point...

my comment was directed to real artists who would need pro level dSLR AF, can't think of many of those... and I don't mean to offend sport-shooters as not being artists :)

[jsrockit]

Any thoughts on the possibility that they mean 18mm, 35mm and 60mm as 35mm film equivalents?
60mm is the odd man out in that trio, but as a macro, not without precedence.

Well, the Fuji X100 has a 23mm lens, but a 34.5mm effective focal length (based on 35mm).

[exiled4979]

Haven't seen anything about a US price yet... :( I'm hoping Fuji does the whole 1300 euros equals $1300 US thing...instead of a true exchange rate. Sorry eurozoners. ;)

that's just mean :)

[jsrockit]

I plan to use both. X100 w/ 35mm and X-Pro1 w/ 28mm & 50mm.

[paulfish4570]

i cannot imagine NOT keeping the x100. it is so stinking convenient to get such high iso photos in such a compact, lightweight kit.

[Photon42]

Any thoughts on the possibility that they mean 18mm, 35mm and 60mm as 35mm film equivalents?
60mm is the odd man out in that trio, but as a macro, not without precedence.

Check my translation of the article. It is all there.

[dazedgonebye]

Check my translation of the article. It is all there.

I'm going to ignore that because it's not what I want to believe. :D

[Photon42]

I'm going to ignore that because it's not what I want to believe. :D

Oh ... can't help then :D I also find it slightly unfortunate they skipped this focal length in the beginning. Looks a bit to me like a management decision. Still believe they come out with a 35mm later. Not uncommon tactics.

[Shade]

Lets see how Fuji brings out their interchangeable lens camera.. I have always liked their s-pro series, but they were some odd products that required some fiddly diddly. Great results though nonetheless. But I seriously hope they will make it right this time!

Oh and for those who asks why no 35mm equiv fov? Because they already have x100 to cover it and expect people to buy the x-pro as the main camera and x100 as a street semi wide second body.

[tom.w.bn]

Oh ... can't help then :D I also find it slightly unfortunate they skipped this focal length in the beginning. Looks a bit to me like a management decision. Still believe they come out with a 35mm later. Not uncommon tactics.

I think they just listened to the internet. When the X100 came out, a lot of people here and elsewhere stated "Not for me. Come back with a 50mm version". Now they start with 50mm and it's wrong again. :rolleyes:

[ferider]

You guys realize there will be Leica adapters available in no time ?

Cool camera. Watch for M9 sales.

And regarding pricing, check out what an M8 still fetches on the used market.

[rover]

Lets see how Fuji brings out their interchangeable lens camera.. I have always liked their s-pro series, but they were some odd products that required some fiddly diddly. Great results though nonetheless. But I seriously hope they will make it right this time!

Oh and for those who asks why no 35mm equiv fov? Because they already have x100 to cover it and expect people to buy the x-pro as the main camera and x100 as a street semi wide second body.

The existance of the x100 in my eyes is a short term excuse for the lack of the 35mm equivolent lens. Yes, today they do not want to undermine the x100, but it has to hard to sell one camera at these prices, much harder to sell two, and 35mm is such a fundamental focal length. The question I would guess is, will there be an x200 or x300? When that line is dropped in favor of the xPro thingy the 35mm equivolent lens will be offered.

[Bobfrance]

You guys realize there will be Leica adapters available in no time ?

Cool camera. Watch for M9 sales.



But how would they work with the zoom finder? I doubt frame-lines and level of zoom will be selectable by the user, so that would leave the EVF. How would you focus them? I've not head focus peaking mentioned for this particular camera.

Despite being a different price point I agree that will impact on M9 sales.

[ferider]

But how would they work with the zoom finder? I doubt frame-lines and level of zoom will be selectable by the user, so that would leave the EVF. How would you focus them? I've not head focus peaking mentioned for this particular camera.

Despite being a different price point I agree that will impact on M9 sales.

We haven't heard anything about that camera, really. But the registration distance seems short enough - that's all that matters.

It's the first digital camera with optical viewfinder and interchangable lenses with registration distance shorter than a Leica.

With the success of u4/3 and NEX with adapted lenses, Fuji would be silly not to offer software access to frameline selection or contrast focusing. It's just a software problem. Or include focus confirmation in the adapter ....

[jsrockit]

I can't see how this will have an effect on M9 sales. If you want a mechanical RF full frame camera, there is still only one. Plus, remember, some people care more about the dot than photos. ;) Leica will be fine since they operate in the luxury zone (and not the consumer zone).

[Photon42]

You guys realize there will be Leica adapters available in no time ?

Cool camera. Watch for M9 sales.

And regarding pricing, check out what an M8 still fetches on the used market.

I do - but I'm not sure how fluid it plays together with the optical viewfinder. Such a FL should be provided as a native lens. I'm ok with adapters for e.g. macro stuff or other applications where I have enough time to get around the adaptation oddities.

[ferider]

I only commented on the used market, jsrockit. Real "Leica-men" buy new anyway. :)

[Photon42]

I can't see how this will have an effect on M9 sales. If you want a mechanical RF full frame camera, there is still only one. Plus, remember, some people care more about the dot than photos. ;) Leica will be fine since they operate in the luxury zone (and not the consumer zone).

Agree with the Lux zone (no pun intended). Sadly, the Leicas were pretty much the only game in town so far along with the Epson, when it comes to rangefinder like photography in ones and zeros.

[Bobfrance]

We haven't heard anything about that camera, really. But the registration distance is short enough - that's all that matters. With the success of u4/3 and NEX with adapted lenses, Fuji would be silly not to offer software access to frameline selection or contrast focusing. It's just a software problem. Or include focus confirmation in the adapter ....

True.

However the one thing I can't get my head around is; with adapted manual focus lenses, how can you parallel correct the frame-lines on the optical viewfinder when the camera has no idea how what distance the lens is focused at?
Leica, Epson and Voigtander do it because they have a roller that physically connects with cam the lens. I doubt this camera will have such a roller and all the other cameras operate with an EVF so are in effect more like SLRs.

Personally, if it can be adapted, I think this camera may be no better than most of the other EVF options on the market as far as mounting non-Fuji lenses goes.

Of course I'm sure they are very clever people at Fuji who may prove me wrong.

[furcafe]

The only thing I can think of is that the camera would somehow take a focus distance reading from the sensor (reverse focus peaking?) & then feed it back to the framelines.

True.

However the one thing I can't get my head around is; with adapted manual focus lenses, how can you parallel correct the frame-lines on the optical viewfinder when the camera has no idea how what distance the lens is focused at?
Leica, Epson and Voigtander do it because they have a roller that physically connects with cam the lens. I doubt this camera will have such a roller and all the other cameras operate with an EVF so are in effect more like SLRs.

Personally, if it can be adapted, I think this camera may be no better than most of the other EVF options on the market as far as mounting non-Fuji lenses goes.

Of course I'm sure they are very clever people at Fuji who may prove me wrong.

[Archlich]

Trying to adapt M lenses onto this camera is like sticking your M lenses into a Contax G.

Doesn't make sense.

[Bobfrance]

The only thing I can think of is that the camera would somehow take a focus distance reading from the sensor (reverse focus peaking?) & then feed it back to the framelines.

Good point.
I wondered that myself, but I thought contrast detect focusing only has distance data because the position of the lens elements is fed back from the lens to the camera thus providing the focal distance.

Without that it surely contrast detect would simply tell you if it is in focus or not, not what the distance is.

:confused:

[Bobfrance]

Trying to adapt M lenses onto this camera is like sticking your M lenses into a Contax G.

Doesn't make sense.

This is what I suspect.

[ferider]

Don't get me wrong Bob. This is the first digital camera that interests me, and I will be totally OK using optimized Fujinon lenses on it. They will be smaller, have more than enough IQ, and can be supported by in-camera lens corrections, etc.

You, Archlich and me might not understand why we should use an M mount lens on u4/3, NEX or new Fuji. But the market is there (just search for "Leica adapter" on ebay) and I'm sure Fuji will enable it, is all I was saying.

This will be the first "affordable" M9 competitor (even though camera and lens kit will easily sell north of US 2k, I'm sure), and it will be better than the M9 in some departments (low light sensitivity & close focus, for instance); it will change RFF, too, I'm afraid.

Off to load my Hasselblad with Tmax :)

[Bobfrance]

Off to load my Hasselblad with Tmax :)

I'm with you there. I think it looks a very promising camera, but I wouldn't want to spend too much on something that is just a backup to my medium format gear and would mainly be used for holiday snaps.

Spare any Tmax? :D




.

[celluloidprop]

Users might be forced to use the EVF if they want to have M-glass on this body. Might not be worth the hassle for OVF workarounds on Fuji's end, when the EVF presents the same option as folks have had with u4/3 and NEX cameras.

[furcafe]

The difference is that the Contax G never had an EVF for SLR-like framing/focusing. I don't think anyone is going to be buying this camera primarily to use Leica M/LTM lenses, it's just a nice side benefit & can help users fill some focal length gaps given the limited initial lens offerings. For the same reasons, it would be nice for the M10, whenever it comes out, to have live view capability.

This is what I suspect.

[celluloidprop]

There will definitely be folks buying it (or hoping to buy it) primarily for M-lenses. Not enough (per many previous arguments) for Fuji to design the camera around their desires, but more than a few.

[dazedgonebye]

Not sure I sign on to the logic of avoiding a 35mm for this camera to avoid conflict with the X100.
I prefer 35mm to 50mm, but the interchangeable lenses and the virtual certainty of an eventual 35mm release are enough for me.

[jsrockit]

I only commented on the used market, jsrockit. Real "Leica-men" buy new anyway. :)

Haha, true... :)

[jsrockit]

Trying to adapt M lenses onto this camera is like sticking your M lenses into a Contax G.

Doesn't make sense.

I have to agree. I'll be using only its native lenses. However, there is one difference. The Fuji has manual focus rings on its lenses... I don't believe the G series lenses did (though I could be wrong).

[Faintandfuzzy]

Looks simply incredible. 16mp with a new color array and no anti-aliasing filter. I think I'm finally sold!

[jsrockit]

Hmmm, I wonder what type of shutter it uses. Leaf like the X100 or focal plane now?

[jskjsk]

I dont get why they would stick to CMOS instead of CCD

[exiled4979]

I think they just listened to the internet. When the X100 came out, a lot of people here and elsewhere stated "Not for me. Come back with a 50mm version". Now they start with 50mm and it's wrong again. :rolleyes:

the fact is, no matter how natural 35mm feels, from time to time you just need/want 50... sometimes you feel a bit distant and 50mm for street shooter is de facto a tele-lens :)

personally, I always used 35mm and x100 was a natural choice, but,every now and then, I feel like doing more portraits, less docu on the streets, and I take my m6+50 :) if there was a x100 with 50mm ekv, I'd sell my m6 and buy that, for sure.

[exiled4979]

Hmmm, I wonder what type of shutter it uses. Leaf like the X100 or focal plane now?

if there's a leaf shutter, lens prices will be, well, interesting :)

[tbarker13]

Loving the way this looks. Can't wait to see how the camera performs. Particularly the longer FL lens. I want to see some portraits shot with it.

[celluloidprop]

I wonder when mere mortals might get their hands on one. 6 months?

[shadowfox]

No 35mm-equivalent field of view lens? Fail!

Make that EPIC Fail!

Fuji, I didn't think you'd let idiots making decisions as important as that.

[Rogier]

I am wandering about the ergonomics of this camera.
Looking at the image from this French magazine article I am struck how awkward big the lens sticks out.
If the camera has the dimensions of a X100 I can only hold it between my fingertips. Recently I held the New Nikon V1 in my hands and found it very awkward.

Having a big lens sticking out makes it impossible to put it in your pocket. So you have to keep carrying it like a miniature SLR. Great on the one hand, SLR like performance on a smaller scale. But on the other hand how nice is is to actually handle the camera?

Time will tell, an amazing camera for sure!

Lets hope they will further develop the X100 as well...

[dcsang]

I just wonder why Fuji didn't announce it today with all the other umpteen cameras they announced :)

Cheers,
Dave

[dazedgonebye]

Shoot at 28 and then crop to whatever focal length you want... Thats what Diado Moriyama has been doing for a long time.

That's why I'm not as worried about the 60mm long lens. It's a bit short for some specific needs I have, but 16mp gives me plenty of room to crop.

[elmer3.5]

Nice thing this new fuji,things are coming back to leica...the begining of the end to dslr´s and moving mirrors...

Nice effort on lenses specs they look quite fast but the thing is if they´re going to be usable at full aperture.
I haven´t looked any x100 wo performance but people agree it´s enough.
My experience is with the elmarit from my gone x1 it was simply superb at 2.8, the 16mm lens of my current nex 5 dissapoints at 2.8 but for video it´s ok.

Very interesting device and wonder what´s doing sigma with it´s foveon...

bye!

[eddie1960]

I dont get why they would stick to CMOS instead of CCD

Been eons since i posted over here but htis announcement got me back

the answer is likely no live view option and no video with CCD. I would bet both features are there. personally i could live without either but mass market demands it. it's also quite possible this new micro lens array and no AA will address any issues people have ccd vs cmos.
Leica can stick to CCD because they are in a unique position in the market (though I thought the Leica evil rumours were going to be a cmos model)

anyway if it lives up to some of the initial hype I will probably dump some other gear and grab one of these with the 28 and 50 equivalents
for me the lack of 35 equivalent isn't as big a deal since i don't shoot at that focal length often and there is enough pixels to crop for it until they release one (as I certain they will - it's not like any brand releases a complete set of lenses day one)

[digitalintrigue]

Trying to adapt M lenses onto this camera is like sticking your M lenses into a Contax G.

The ultimate irony would be to convert G lenses to M, and put them on the Fuji. :)

[jsrockit]

I am wandering about the ergonomics of this camera.
Looking at the image from this French magazine article I am struck how awkward big the lens sticks out.

Just like most fast 50mm lens on a Leica M.

If the camera has the dimensions of a X100 I can only hold it between my fingertips.

It is rumored to be larger than the X100.

Having a big lens sticking out makes it impossible to put it in your pocket. So you have to keep carrying it like a miniature SLR. Great on the one hand, SLR like performance on a smaller scale. But on the other hand how nice is is to actually handle the camera?


It's not a pocket cam. The X100 handles well... not sure why you think it doesn't.

[digitalintrigue]

It looks like the new Fuji seems to have an external autofocus (but I'm not so sure here they are correct with this).

The two parts of this camera I'm looking forward to hearing more about are:

leaf shutters

and external focus.

I'm curious if there is indeed (secondary?) external focus, if this would be used for low light situations where contrast AF can have difficulty. It could be mighty speedy!

[dazedgonebye]

IR Focus maybe? Too silly?

[digitalintrigue]

I'm guessing that the optical VF defaults to a specific view until the attached system lens tells it what view to zoom into place. (This is what the Contax G series cameras do as well.)

If the camera has been designed with a 'shoot without lens' option similar to other mirrorless cameras, then there should be an option to manually select an appropriate optical view. This would not enable focusing of course...unless the external focusing system was designed accordingly...

This could be mighty interesting.

EVF would need focus peaking or focus assist.

[ferider]

A lot can be done with hybrid VF and external focus. For example, frameline parallax correction for adapted lenses, or even project only a part of the EVF as hybrid "RF patch" into the viewfinder ....

[jsrockit]

Upon thinking about this more, the Leaf shutter probably isn't going to happen if they want to allow users to use third party lenses... well, unless they rely on an electronic shutter for third party lenses.

[ferider]

I'm also betting on a focal plane shutter. Will protect the sensor from dust, too.

[Photon42]

I only commented on the used market, jsrockit. Real "Leica-men" buy new anyway. :)

Well, if they can get held of something :D

[Photon42]

The two parts of this camera I'm looking forward to hearing more about are:

leaf shutters

and external focus.

I'm curious if there is indeed (secondary?) external focus, if this would be used for low light situations where contrast AF can have difficulty. It could be mighty speedy!

I'm absolutely not technically inclined here, but I think a lot of the more advanced AF cameras are using a separate AF sensor, using somehow a beam splitter. As this may not what Fuji wants to do (a translucent mirror e.g.), they might have developed something else external to the lens/sensor.

[Hatch]

It's not a pocket cam. The X100 handles well... not sure why you think it doesn't.

If I'm not mistaken, Rogier is a countryman of mine.

Most dutch tend to be rather tall.

So lots of stuff is usually a bit difficult to handle if it's compact.

i consider my F5 a point & shoot more or less.
It's still abit on the smaller side of comfy though.;)

( I'm not tall though, just have large hands)

[StaaleS]

Yes, on SLRs there is a semi-silvered portion of the main mirror which lets quite a bit of light through, a smaller mirror behind this reflects this light down to the AF sensor down in the bottom of the camera body to do the phase detection thingy. The problem with this approach on a non-SLR camera should be obvious :)

[jsrockit]

If I'm not mistaken, Rogier is a countryman of mine.

Most dutch tend to be rather tall.

So lots of stuff is usually a bit difficult to handle if it's compact.

i consider my F5 a point & shoot more or less.
It's still abit on the smaller side of comfy though.;)

( I'm not tall though, just have large hands)

I see... I thought of that, but me being 6' 2" and having big hands I think the X100 is still easy to handle. Perhaps you guys are larger than me though. :D

[jsrockit]

Been seeing rumors elsewhere that the 1300 euros actually includes the 35mm 1.4 lens. I guess January 10 will let us know the rest.

[Hatch]

@ JSROCKIT Over here you're of average height :) like me.

Most of my co-workers are 6,4 or taller.
I was malnourished as a kid which stunted my growth.
Gramps was over 6,5.
He had to dip slightly when entering a room.

Most camera's feel small so I'm not bothered by a NEX or the x100 felling small, I tend to cradle the camera om my palm anyway.

[jsrockit]

@ JSROCKIT Over here you're of average height :) like me.

Ah, I see. My dad is 6' 7"... so he'd fit in.

ost camera's feel small so I'm not bothered by a NEX or the x100 felling small, I tend to cradle the camera om my palm anyway.

Yep, I cradle on the palm and think that works well. Perhaps others think that's no good.

Back to the post... Steve Huff's site is stating that there could be another Fuji, outside of the X-Pro1, which a larger sensor being released later in the year (unless I'm reading that cryptic message wrong).

[Rogier]

I see... I thought of that, but me being 6' 2" and having big hands I think the X100 is still easy to handle. Perhaps you guys are larger than me though. :D

Its about the balance between body and lens. Many of these camera's look and feel like a Lend with a Body attached to it...

[FalseDigital]

This pretty much sums up how I feel about this right now:

http://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net/photos/images/newsfeed/000/181/813/1726009-shut_up_and_take_my_money_super.jpg?1317708806

[celluloidprop]

I'm 6'1" and wear XL gloves - the Thumbs Up grip for the X100 helps immensely.

[dreilly]

I'm trying to grok this who viewfinder issue. From the rumor sites, people seem to be assuming that the viewfinder will zoom to match the focal length of the lenses. That sounds a lot like the Contax G finder, but I find it hard to believe. I also wonder how good that can be, given that the G viewfinder never got many accolades. I imagined that it would be like an M, with a set magnification and then framelines on the digital overlay. That would make it a bit odd to switch to the EVF I guess, a little like a zoom. Any one have any clarity on this issue?

[DamenS]

I'm really hoping this "external AF" is an active IR system just like in the Konica Hexar AF. This was what I wanted for the X-100.

It would mean AF will be blazing fast, will operate in total darkness AND will be able to focus on low-contrast objects such as featureless walls (that's an example - DON'T take photos of featureless walls).

Being able to focus in total darkness at high speed would be a revelation for a camera with such a good high ISO performance (assuming it is just as good as the X-100).

[Hatch]

Its about the balance between body and lens. Many of these camera's look and feel like a Lend with a Body attached to it...
True, but for me the difference between too small and even smaller is not really an issue. :D
I'm past noticing it.

This Fuji looks larger than the NEX 7 which would be great.

Are there any adapter for legacy lense yet for this X mount?
Or is it whole new mount.

[stompyq]

I'm really hoping this "external AF" is an active IR system just like in the Konica Hexar AF. This was what I wanted for the X-100.

It would mean AF will be blazing fast, will operate in total darkness AND will be able to focus on low-contrast objects such as featureless walls (that's an example - DON'T take photos of featureless walls).

Being able to focus in total darkness at high speed would be a revelation for a camera with such a good high ISO performance (assuming it is just as good as the X-100).

How dare you stop us from taking pictures of featureless walls :bang:

[stompyq]

And for those who haven't seen it here's more info

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/first-image-of-the-fuji-x-pro/

Seriously like the price if this is true...

[Arjay]

I'm really hoping this "external AF" is an active IR system just like in the Konica Hexar AF. This was what I wanted for the X-100.

It would mean AF will be blazing fast, will operate in total darkness AND will be able to focus on low-contrast objects such as featureless walls (that's an example - DON'T take photos of featureless walls).

Being able to focus in total darkness at high speed would be a revelation for a camera with such a good high ISO performance (assuming it is just as good as the X-100).
If you refer to the text passage in the French article, then you should be a little careful.

The phrase in question is incomplete and contains a grammatical mistake. I'm not at all sure what it means, but from its context, I would much rather guess that the article simply intends to say that the new camera's OVF will also feature parallax compensation.

There's nothing on the camera front that would indicate that the camera would also feature an IR-assist AF system.

BTW, the Mirrorless Rumors blog appears to be a simple rehash of the French article, and it reproduces the faulty text passage with an interpretation:
The autofocus sensor is…external! There is a special AF sensor on the camera body!I don't believe this until I see a better, more credible source.

[gavinlg]

There's nothing on the camera front that would indicate that the camera would also feature an IR-assist AF system.

Agreed - people are making up their own specs here. There's no current digital camera that has an IR assist style AF system for whatever reason, and I don't think this one has one either. if you look at the hexar AF it has a multitude of windows and sensors next to the viewfinder, this x-pro has no visible external sensors.
Besides that, it DOES have an external AF assist light, which WILL allow you to photograph a featureless wall in complete darkness, if you so choose (as will the x100 with its assist light)

Also, the whole suggested beam splitter/projected rangefinder thing isn't going to happen either. It's an autofocus camera, and will have a basic MF mode to supplement it, just like the x100.

[Adanac]

The hybrid OVF/EVF is cool, provided they improved the EVF in this second gen, whatever improvement means. I did not mind the EVF component of the X100 but it would be nice to see it come up to the level of the Sony EVF which has much less lag in lower light.

It would be disorienting to switch from OVF to EVF if the OVF only shows framelines and no zoom.

The main thing of interest in this camera to me are the new sensor implementation details, but those aren't disclosed in any substantive way as yet. If the camera offers a manual focus assist mode (magnification and edge detection / focus peaking a la Sony and Ricoh) such that adapted lenses can be used on it, then and only then will I be really interested.


Put another way, if I can't run my adapted M mount lenses on it, the camera probably won't attract my dollars. I'm not about to sell lenses I like, that work in a more open environment, for lenses I might like that only work on a closed system made by Fuji or anyone else.


Otherwise it'll be yet another closed camera system from yet another maker, albeit with a new (but unproven) sensor technology that might offer value to photographers as opposed to offering value to camera makers (cheaper or easier to produce).

[Turtle]

I agree that a 35mm equivalent lens will be very important. The gap between 27mm and 53 is enormous and would be far from ideal for me.
Lets see.....

[DamenS]

Besides that, it DOES have an external AF assist light, which WILL allow you to photograph a featureless wall in complete darkness, if you so choose (as will the x100 with its assist light)


Pity - I HATE AF assist lights ... They're so indiscreet and I find they always alert my featureless walls as to my intent and they usually manage to escape before I've fired the shot ... ;)

[Matus]

Just to support those who would like to see 21 and 35 (FX equiv.) lenses - count me in :)

[Colin G.]

This pretty much sums up how I feel about this right now:

http://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net/photos/images/newsfeed/000/181/813/1726009-shut_up_and_take_my_money_super.jpg?1317708806

LOL...My sentiments exactly!

[f6andBthere]

I can't believe that Fuji have managed to wind this place up to fever pitch twice in the space of twelve months with their offerings! :eek:

That has to be some sort of record surely? :D

[Mcary]

I plan to use both. X100 w/ 35mm and X-Pro1 w/ 28mm & 50mm.

+1 Mostly like will get the 60mm as my first lens for the system followed by the 35mm

[tbarker13]

Surely they will offer a body-only version. If someone were to want two of these bodies, they surely wouldn't want two of the same lenses to go with them.

[willie_901]

I only hope that it will have at least AF or MF, not like x100 with no F at all.

I just realized I'm the luckiest photographer on earth since my in-focus rate with the X100 is essentially identical to the high in-focus rate I enjoyed with my Zeiss Ikon ZM film body. Apparently I am able to record large numbers of focused images with a camera that has "no F at all".

I'm off to the loacal casino to see if my luck translates to the gaming tables.

[MikeL]

I can't believe that Fuji have managed to wind this place up to fever pitch twice in the space of twelve months with their offerings! :eek:

I heard through the grapevine RFF may open a sister site, or change its address, to www.fujirangefinderesqueforum.com

[Snacks]

Having only just bought an X100, I thank Fuji for making the X-Pro 1 lumpy and ugly.

[whtchocla7e]

Having only just bought an X100, I thank Fuji for making the X-Pro 1 lumpy and ugly.

And we thank you for buying that X100.
This means better chances of getting the pre-order sooner rather than later for the rest of us. ;)

[Shade]

The existance of the x100 in my eyes is a short term excuse for the lack of the 35mm equivolent lens. Yes, today they do not want to undermine the x100, but it has to hard to sell one camera at these prices, much harder to sell two, and 35mm is such a fundamental focal length. The question I would guess is, will there be an x200 or x300? When that line is dropped in favor of the xPro thingy the 35mm equivolent lens will be offered.

I suspect that Fuji will not release a 35mm equiv. lens before their stock of X100 thins out. Then by the time they will release a 35mm equiv. lens, the X100 will have a newer generation, and possibly, a fast lens short zoom. Perhaps 28-40 F2.

[porktaco]

stupid fuji. your aperture ring moves the wrong way. just like all the supermodels with ears that are too large or elbows that are too pointy, i throw you back.

[bwcolor]

What do we know about this new sensor? I understand no AA filter. I understand what the microlenses do. Can someone explain the advantage of hexagonal sensor sites and six color filter array. I assume that the hexagonal arrangement somehow increases the photo sensitive area and the low light performance. Is this correct? What does the color filter do and why will this camera exceed the performance of full frame sensor cameras?

[Flinor]

At Last. My digital CLE

[celluloidprop]

I don't think anyone can answer those questions, bwcolor - so far it's all Fuji marketing hype.

If it meets the D7000/K5 level of performance (also 16MP in APS-C), I'll be happy. If it exceeds, ecstatic.

[yukio]

Can someone explain the advantage of hexagonal sensor sites and six color filter array.

I would think that hexagonal sensor sites would help mitigate aliasing.

[clicker]

Hype,gas,over extended,broke,more gas
And the beat goes on!
Btw, that X100 is one pretty camera.

[kdemas]

...thank god it's black. :)

[tom.w.bn]

Hopefully the AF is better than the X100 AF. The AF gives me the biggest disappointment with this camera. Whenever there is some depth in the scene with foreground and background items there is a fair chance that the AF choses the background objects although I want the foreground object. I often use the ground next to the object for focussing and then compose.

[Photon42]

[...]
BTW, the Mirrorless Rumors blog appears to be a simple rehash of the French article, and it reproduces the faulty text passage with an interpretation:
I don't believe this until I see a better, more credible source.

The French reads that they conclude this from the small openings on the camera body, I think. That is why I said in the beginning I'm not to sure they're right. But you never know. It would be of course bad news for those who intend to adapt their 1200mm mirror tele lenses :eek:

Cheers
Ivo

[gavinlg]

Hopefully the AF is better than the X100 AF. The AF gives me the biggest disappointment with this camera. Whenever there is some depth in the scene with foreground and background items there is a fair chance that the AF choses the background objects although I want the foreground object. I often use the ground next to the object for focussing and then compose.

The problem you're experiencing is simple parralax error for the focusing point.

Turn on 'AF parralax correction frame' in the menu. When a subject is close, use the bottom right focusing box, when subject is mid-long distance, use the top left focusing box.
If you follow these basic steps, you'll probably never have a misfocussed frame ever again...

[tom.w.bn]

The problem you're experiencing is simple parralax error for the focusing point.

Turn on 'AF parralax correction frame' in the menu. When a subject is close, use the bottom right focusing box, when subject is mid-long distance, use the top left focusing box.
If you follow these basic steps, you'll probably never have a misfocussed frame ever again...

Never heard of that but I will give it a try.

[noimmunity]

2011: successfully sold my Leica lenses and trimmed my M kit while adding strength in the ultra-wide department (APS sensor-ready!)

2012: ready for the long awaited new offering from Fuji!

[Leigh Youdale]

I can't believe that Fuji have managed to wind this place up to fever pitch twice in the space of twelve months with their offerings! :eek:
That has to be some sort of record surely? :D

I didn't think it was Fuji caused all that fuss at all. I thought it was the RFF'ers did it all by themselves. Twice in the space of 12 months, too!

[jsrockit]

Its about the balance between body and lens. Many of these camera's look and feel like a Lend with a Body attached to it...

Right, like the Sony NEX. This Fuji looks proportional to me.

[jsrockit]

The problem you're experiencing is simple parralax error for the focusing point.

Turn on 'AF parralax correction frame' in the menu. When a subject is close, use the bottom right focusing box, when subject is mid-long distance, use the top left focusing box.
If you follow these basic steps, you'll probably never have a misfocussed frame ever again...

Yep, it is funny how many people continue to diss the AF when Fuji fixed this long ago.

[jsrockit]

I didn't think it was Fuji caused all that fuss at all. I thought it was the RFF'ers did it all by themselves. Twice in the space of 12 months, too!

The fact is that Fuji made two rangefinder like cameras that really appeal to RFF users. So yes, Fuji made all the fuss by making large steps in the right direction camera design wise.

[tom.w.bn]

The problem you're experiencing is simple parralax error for the focusing point.

Turn on 'AF parralax correction frame' in the menu. When a subject is close, use the bottom right focusing box, when subject is mid-long distance, use the top left focusing box.
If you follow these basic steps, you'll probably never have a misfocussed frame ever again...

Just switched this thing on in the camera. Don't know if it really improves AF success rate but this is a fine focus distance indicator like in the Hexar AF. You will instantly see if the AF is chasing for the wrong subject. Thanks.

[gavinlg]

Just switched this thing on in the camera. Don't know if it really improves AF success rate but this is a fine focus distance indicator like in the Hexar AF. You will instantly see if the AF is chasing for the wrong subject. Thanks.

Hope it solves your focussing issues!

[intheviewfinder]

I owned a X100 for about 7 months. Image-wise it was a superb camera but it had a lot of quirks that made it less than satisfying so I sold it. I posted about it previously in another thread (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113047). There's even a link to a small portfolio of shots (58 photos).

When I read this announcement I realized despite all the quirks of the X100 I miss it. So I'm hoping they've done enough to correct the niggles for me to spring for the whole ball of wax when it gets released.

--Rich

[viramati]

this could be very interesting as on the M9 I use basically 3 lenses the 28, 50 and 90. I have the 28 on one body and the 50 on another and use the X100 for quiet street work. If times keep getting harder and this camera live up to expectations I would even consider selling one M body and get this whole system ans still have a few pounds left over!!

[Benjamin Marks]

Interesting that the other imaging giants have left "retro" to Fuji.

[migtex]

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/FujiFilmMirrorless_2.jpg
enough said...

[Leigh Youdale]

The fact is that Fuji made two rangefinder like cameras that really appeal to RFF users. So yes, Fuji made all the fuss by making large steps in the right direction camera design wise.

Well, SOMEBODY has to be singled out for the blame. Can't be us then!

[viramati]

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/01/04/the-new-fuji-x-pro1-details-yep-fuji-is-in-this-to-win-it/

[rxmd]

None of the Contax N lenses are focus-by-wire. There is direct mechanical linkage from the focusing ring to the focusing group lens elements and no power is required to do manual focusing.

Maybe we could use a little clarification first on what is meant by "by-wire". It means an electronic circuitry reads from a user-interface control (here, a focusing ring), performs some calculations and/or does some checking/limiting, and then sends electrical signals to drive motors and/or other actuators to control something (here, the focusing group lens elements). In a "by-wire" system there is no guaranteed direct linear relationship between output and input. A computer may decide your input is out of range and skip the output instead of obeying your command. A characteristic of every "by-wire" system is it requires an external power source to work. (Although the reverse is not true, e.g. power assisted steering and braking of a car are still not steering/braking-by-wire systems.)

A by-wire system may have some lag because it takes time to read the sensor, do calculations and sends the output. (Although microprocessors are so fast these days that the calculation part is negligible.) It is also limited by sensor resolution as well as the output resolution of the control motor. (Although even in a purely mechanical system, resolution is still limited by backlash of gearing.) A good implementation of focus-by-wire can exceed a poor implementation of mechanical focusing. (e.g. the focus-by-wire Canon EF 85/1.2L would be smoother than most AF lenses in MF mode.)

Thanks for the correction & for clearing that up!

[jsrockit]

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/FujiFilmMirrorless_2.jpg
enough said...

Nice... ...

[Turtle]

I'm really hoping this is a M9 beater because by paring down to a reduced film only M outfit, it should be possible to finance it by selling some film M gear.

I wonder how many M users might do the same thing? if this camera is a riotous success (and I am not saying it necessarily will be) then it could really change the marketplace for M equipment.

[monochromejrnl]

I'm really hoping this is a M9 beater because by paring down to a reduced film only M outfit, it should be possible to finance it by selling some film M gear.

I wonder how many M users might do the same thing? if this camera is a riotous success (and I am not saying it necessarily will be) then it could really change the marketplace for M equipment.

The price of M mount lenses will probably continue to rise and film bodies may fall.

I should have taken TomA's advice and NEVER sold any M mount or even LTM glass.

[tapesonthefloor]

I hope these lenses have proper mechanical linkages. They look like they do. I hate fly-by-wire. Don't tell anyone I said that, though.

[allanmcleodroney]

Some new details from www.photorumors.com (some more details there);


Viewfinder;
Similar hybrid viewfinder like in the x100. The X-Pro 1 will have two optical degrees of magnification: x0.37 for wider lenses and x0.60 for the other lenses. This function will be controlled by the menu and can be set manually for third party lenses.


Lenses;
XF 18mmF2 R
XF 35mmF1.4 R
XF 60mmF2.4 R Macro
Later this year Fuji will introduce more lenses, including a telephoto and probably a 23mm f/ 2.0.
Fuji will also launch their own M bayonet adapter for Leica lenses

[migtex]

With a Flange distance of 17,7 mm I hope some adapters may be build like the Nikon S mount.

[DougFord]

Some new details from www.photorumors.com (http://www.photorumors.com) (some more details there);


Viewfinder;
Similar hybrid viewfinder like in the x100. The X-Pro 1 will have two optical degrees of magnification: x0.37 for wider lenses and x0.60 for the other lenses. This function will be controlled by the menu and can be set manually for third party lenses.


Lenses;
XF 18mmF2 R
XF 35mmF1.4 R
XF 60mmF2.4 R Macro
Later this year Fuji will introduce more lenses, including a telephoto and probably a 23mm f/ 2.0.
Fuji will also launch their own M bayonet adapter for Leica lenses

It would be great if the purpose built Fuji adapter would be able to read the leica lens coding, change the OVF magnification and then project the correct frame-lines. Will the xpro-1 firmware be able to project frame-lines other than the 28/50/90 set?
Or is the adapter a dumb device, where all setting must be done manually via the menu?

[rxmd]

It would be great if the purpose built Fuji adapter would be able to read the leica lens coding, change the OVF magnification and then project the correct frame-lines.

Unlikely, that's covered by patents.

However, it would be cool if the adapter had a rangefinder roller and you'd get parallax-corrected framelines for whatever focal length you dial in, and distance information in the EXIF data. :p

[DougFord]

Unlikely, that's covered by patents.

However, it would be cool if the adapter had a rangefinder roller and you'd get parallax-corrected framelines for whatever focal length you dial in, and distance information in the EXIF data. :p

Ahh..come on, anybody can read dots. In fact, we'll add a few so the user can put in the lens manufacturer. We'll call it the new expanded coding system for legacy lenses. This open standard will be used by adapter designers for the digital/legacy interface that cameras like the NEX and XPro-1 (no doubt others) will use.:p

[noimmunity]

Fuji will also launch their own M bayonet adapter for Leica lenses

if true, this is great news! Hopefully it means that Fuji will incorporate M-adapter-friendly features into the design.

[Turtle]

Look out Leica....

[Gray Fox]

Now if it could somehow in dreamland handle my Contax G lenses I'd be standing in the door of the first place selling them. Unfortunately, this doesn't even fall under the dream category.

[digitalintrigue]

Since apparently it will accept M lenses, you'll also be able to use G lenses if you convert them. (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111550)

[back alley]

if this new kit is as good as the x100 is...image quailty wise...i just might sell everything and buy it.

and then live happily ever after!

[J. Borger]

I still remember the bashings about the M8 having a 1.3 crop factor 6 years ago. Makes me realy smile to see all the excitement about a new RF type camera with the sensorformat of the 8 years old R-D1 :)

[ndnik]

I still remember the bashings about the M8 having a 1.3 crop factor 6 years ago. Makes me realy smile to see all the excitement about a new RF type camera with the sensorformat of te 8 years old R-D1 :)

Well, Fuji is offering the right set of lenses for their sensor format ... That was not the case when the M8 came out. Especially since people already owned M-mount lenses with an angle-of-view matched to their preferences in the 135 format. Also, sensors got a lot better since then, so that the difference between smaller sensors and larger ones is not as noticable as it was 5 years ago.

I do not have a digital camera right now, but this Fuji looks really interesting ... It is the first digital system that looks like it matches my preference for camera format and shooting style while being affordable by me.

-N.

[j j]

Now if it could somehow in dreamland handle my Contax G lenses I'd be standing in the door of the first place selling them. Unfortunately, this doesn't even fall under the dream category.

Metabones sells a Contax G to Sony NEX so why not Fuji in due course?

[monochromejrnl]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as of now, all of the excitement thus far has been built up on a foundation of speculation and rumours about this "X1 Pro". Still no official announcement from Fuji, correct?

[bwcolor]

Partially correct. Amazon U.S.A. has been selling the three lenses since yesterday, but list the introduction date as 2/9/12.

[benlees]

Partially correct. Amazon U.S.A. has been selling the three lenses since yesterday, but list the introduction date as 2/9/12.

What search terms did you use? My search turned up nothing on amazon.com?

[jsrockit]

18mm (http://amzn.to/x2GNNV)

35mm (http://amzn.to/AerP39)

60mm (http://amzn.to/x6duHY)

But no body? Weird...

[nighstar]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/43rumors/xpro1-1.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/43rumors/Schermata01-2455932alle150441.png

supposedly the first REAL images (http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/first-image-of-the-fuji-x-pro/) of the camera and its lenses....

.....looking pretty sexy. http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/156.gif

[digitalintrigue]

But no body? Weird...

I couldn't find it...

[whtchocla7e]

supposedly the first REAL images (http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/first-image-of-the-fuji-x-pro/) of the camera and its lenses....

.....looking pretty sexy. http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/156.gif

Welcome to two days ago. :angel:

[tom.w.bn]

I still remember the bashings about the M8 having a 1.3 crop factor 6 years ago. Makes me realy smile to see all the excitement about a new RF type camera with the sensorformat of the 8 years old R-D1 :)

Where is the problem? When you get native lenses that are optimized for the crop factor then you don't have a problem. For some the "problem" starts when they put existing M-lenses on the camera and then thinking about the field of view starts every time.

[tom.w.bn]

At that price the 1.4/35 will surely be a high distortion lens like a cv nokton so software correction will be necessary.

[noimmunity]

But no body? Weird...

perhaps somebody should do a search in the books section of amazon:

makes a great sleuth story...

[benlees]

18mm (http://amzn.to/x2GNNV)

35mm (http://amzn.to/AerP39)

60mm (http://amzn.to/x6duHY)

Thanks! A search using Fujinon turned up nothing for me.

And nothing again. Pulled?

[Turtle]

The M mount adaptor might be very handy, but if these lenses are anything like as good as the X100 lens, then I am not sure the Leica lenses will be anything but an expensive extravagance.

Anyone heard anything about how the manual focus will work. The lenses look as if they have a decent sized focus ring, but is the system going to be the same as the X100?

[nighstar]

Welcome to two days ago. :angel:

well excuse me for being 2 days behind. :rolleyes:

[bigeye]

Welcome to two days ago. :angel:

yes, but it's even older now...a bit older now.... it's even older now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2bo_u_YmW8).

.

[mabelsound]

yes, but it's even older now...a bit older now.... it's even older now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2bo_u_YmW8).

.

heh heh, love that song

[rxmd]

The M mount adaptor might be very handy, but if these lenses are anything like as good as the X100 lens, then I am not sure the Leica lenses will be anything but an expensive extravagance.

I guess it's meant more for people who already have them anyway, so that the cost for the lenses is zero.

[digitalintrigue]

Yes, and it's a draw to get them to buy the Xpro body instead of a NEX or other mirrorless to use those lenses on...

[Turtle]

I guess it's meant more for people who already have them anyway, so that the cost for the lenses is zero.

Absolutely, however, the sale of a couple of old Leica lenses could pay for the entire kit (or half a noctilux). If this camera is as good as I hope it to be and it becomes the 'small portable digital kit solution' a M9 might have been, then I will think out some of my Leica gear to pay for it. Holding onto them and paying for the Fuji on top of it would be crazy (for me).

:)

[willie_901]

I plan to buy this system in 2012. I will sell some of my Nikkor lenses because the D700 bodies will only see commercial use once the X-Pro 1 arrives.

Carrying the X100, the X-Pro 1, two additional lenses and a bunch of batteries seems practical.

[jsrockit]

well excuse me for being 2 days behind. :rolleyes:

You mean you have a life outside of awaiting camera announcements? :eek:

[digitalintrigue]

At that price the 1.4/35 will surely be a high distortion lens like a cv nokton so software correction will be necessary.

That's pretty much of a leap. What are you basing this on? :)

[tom.w.bn]

That's pretty much of a leap. What are you basing this on? :)

This assumption comes from my experience with the CV 1.4/35 that's pretty much in this price range. As far as I know it's the only 1.4/35 at that price. And it has quite a lot of distortion.

[Ted Witcher]

I don't know if it's been remarked, but Fuji will be selling their own M adapter for this camera. Which is good news. The next iteration of the M9, if there is to be one, would have to have some kind of hybrid viewfinder/contrast or phase focusing help to compete now, I would think. Especially at the price they want/need to sell it.

Or... and maybe someone here can answer this... is it possible to have a full-frame sensor without the mechanical shutter? What would be the pros and cons? Cheaper to build, at least...

[digitalintrigue]

This assumption comes from my experience with the CV 1.4/35 that's pretty much in this price range. As far as I know it's the only 1.4/35 at that price. And it has quite a lot of distortion.

Two different manufacturers; one manual focus, one AF; two different formats...a lot easier/cheaper to build for APS-C.

[tom.w.bn]

I don't know if it's been remarked, but Fuji will be selling their own M adapter for this camera. Which is good news. The next iteration of the M9, if there is to be one, would have to have some kind of hybrid viewfinder/contrast or phase focusing help to compete now, I would think. Especially at the price they want/need to sell it.


What do you need a focusing help for when you have a rangefinder? Just curious.

[hans voralberg]

I don't know if it's been remarked, but Fuji will be selling their own M adapter for this camera. Which is good news. The next iteration of the M9, if there is to be one, would have to have some kind of hybrid viewfinder/contrast or phase focusing help to compete now, I would think. Especially at the price they want/need to sell it.

Or... and maybe someone here can answer this... is it possible to have a full-frame sensor without the mechanical shutter? What would be the pros and cons? Cheaper to build, at least...

Not sure I got what you meant, phase or contrast focusing what? M lens are all manual. Are you thinking of focus peaking? Making the new M lines AF is gonna be a R&D nightmare if they have not started already.

Of course it's possible to have a FF sensor without a mechanical shutter, the two thing has nothing to do with each other. Just a matter of is it justifiable or not.

[woodphoto]

The lenses are on pre-order at amazon with out the camera. Fuji is brilliant. Ordered the 18 and the 35 just in case the turns out to be awesome... if not then return or sell them to someone who really likes the camera. I believe it will do well and the lenses will be as difficult to get as a Leica lenses are now.

[whtchocla7e]

The 35mm should be bundled with the camera, wasn't that confirmed by the French magazine?

[back alley]

i don't think that anything is really confirmed at this point.

[noimmunity]

The lenses are on pre-order at amazon with out the camera. Fuji is brilliant. Ordered the 18 and the 35 just in case the turns out to be awesome... if not then return or sell them to someone who really likes the camera. I believe it will do well and the lenses will be as difficult to get as a Leica lenses are now.

Naturally, it's not listed for pre-order on any of the European sites for Amazon.

I'll let the early-adopter feeding frenzy take its course and hopefully by the summer availability in Asia will be steady when I go back there.

[Jerry Thirsty]

18mm (http://amzn.to/x2GNNV)

35mm (http://amzn.to/AerP39)

60mm (http://amzn.to/x6duHY)

The Amazon links have been killed already. Somebody got ahead of the program.

[woodphoto]

The Amazon links have been killed already. Somebody got ahead of the program.



The links on the steve huff site still work.

[woodphoto]

The 35mm should be bundled with the camera, wasn't that confirmed by the French magazine?


I'm sure that will be an option. As will body only. It seems to work like that for every other camera system out there.

[jarski]

seems interesting new system. never warmed to X100, because of fixed lens, but this is fixing that. sensor isn't full frame, but so are lenses smaller as well. we are lucky to have so many options.

[Gillymaru]

Body for pre order on Amazon $1699.

[digitalintrigue]

Link?





10char

[gavinlg]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/43rumors/Fuji-X-Pro1-camera-leneses.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/43rumors/Fujifilm-X-Pro1-camera-top.png

What a handsome design IMO...

[rover]

There is a link at Photo Rumors, but it is listing the item as sold out.

I have to admit that this thing is looking pretty good.

[gavinlg]

I'd love to know if this camera will still be using the leaf shutter in the lenses a'la x100, or if it will have a focal plane shutter in the body - i suspect the latter.

The x100 will remain in my arsenal if that's the case - it's too valuable for 1/2000th flash sync!

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Body for pre order on Amazon $1699.

So, with a single lens, well over $2000. No thanks.

[digitalintrigue]

Until it's official, there is nothing official. :) Amazon pulled the link.

[Godfrey]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/43rumors/Fujifilm-X-Pro1-camera-top.png


The design is very pretty, but I find that location for the EV compensation control to be terrible on both the X100 and X10: it's too high and too far to the right on the body and proves an awkward movement to make precisely with my right thumb in the position that I'll normally be holding the camera.

The Fn button is similarly poorly placed for what I'd want a customizable Fn button to do.

[gavinlg]

The design is very pretty, but I find that location for the EV compensation control to be terrible on both the X100 and X10: it's too high and too far to the right on the body and proves an awkward movement to make precisely with my right thumb in the position that I'll normally be holding the camera.

The Fn button is similarly poorly placed for what I'd want a customizable Fn button to do.

Interesting, because I find both the exposure comp and the function button to be ideally placed for me - both easy to get and naturally fall to hand.

Keep in mind this body is thicker and larger than the x100, so will be ergonomically different.

[f6andBthere]

So, with a single lens, well over $2000. No thanks.


An R3A with 35mm f1.4 Nokton will set you back around $1500.00 according to Camera Quest's prices and this is pretty much the bottom of the food chain (price wise) for a set up like this.

Considering the average build quality of the two CV items and their limited potential compared to the X1 Pro and single lens ... two grand doesn't seem excessive to me!

[richardhkirkando]

This assumption comes from my experience with the CV 1.4/35 that's pretty much in this price range. As far as I know it's the only 1.4/35 at that price. And it has quite a lot of distortion.

Keep in mind that it's an APS-C lens and the CV is designed for 135. It's easier to make a 1.4 normal lens than a 1.4 wide-angle.

[rover]

So, with a single lens, well over $2000. No thanks.

I think it is high too, but it is competative with the higher end APS-C cameras, which I think is where this thing may qualify to be.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

An R3A with 35mm f1.4 Nokton will set you back around $1500.00 according to Camera Quest's prices and this is pretty much the bottom of the food chain (price wise) for a set up like this.

Considering the average build quality of the two CV items and their limited potential compared to the X1 Pro and single lens ... two grand doesn't seem excessive to me!

Cameraquest has been jacking prices of CV stuff through the roof in the last year too. The CV stuff isn't worth what they're charging now, not even close. Compare that Fuji to something like a Canon 5D Mark II, which is $2000 for a fullframe 21mp camera with incredible low-light performance, video, sensor dust cleaning, and a very wide range of lenses. Now, the Canon doesn't include a lens at that price, but the 50mm f1.8 Canon lens is about $100. Its a VERY sharp lens.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I think it is high too, but it is competative with the higher end APS-C cameras, which I think is where this thing may qualify to be.

Nikon and Canon do make APS SLRs that cost about the same, but I suspect the cameras have better AF, better lowlight performance (high ISO), etc. People will buy these though. Most will sell it in 6 months and buy the next 'new thing'

[bwcolor]

If you are buying in dollars .. and you are .. it might not be Cameraquest jacking the price. Of course, we have been a bit lucky in that other currencies also have self-inflicted inflation. It must be tough bringing a camera to market and trying to predict the future exchange rate.

[Tim Gray]

Nikon and Canon do make APS SLRs that cost about the same, but I suspect the cameras have better AF, better lowlight performance (high ISO), etc. People will buy these though. Most will sell it in 6 months and buy the next 'new thing'

True. At the same time I've had enough money to buy a decent digital camera for years but haven't because I want:

- reasonably compact - Leica M size is good enough, 5D is too big
- has a fast 21-28mm equivalent lens, f/2 or faster
- has a 50mm f/1.4 equivalent

As far as I know, this is the first one that meets those requirements. Sure, the M9 fits the bill, and I've already got the 28 and 50 mm lenses for it, but it's too expensive for me and has too many issues for me as well, particularly at that price.

I find this camera appealing. $2k is a lot of cash though. I'll wait at least until it's officially announced :)

[Joe AC]

Does anyone know what the crop factor will be? Sorry if it's already been mentioned.

Thanks
Joe

[Chyn]

Crop is at 1.5x.

[noimmunity]

True. At the same time I've had enough money to buy a decent digital camera for years but haven't because I want:

- reasonably compact - Leica M size is good enough, 5D is too big
- has a fast 21-28mm equivalent lens, f/2 or faster
- has a 50mm f/1.4 equivalent

As far as I know, this is the first one that meets those requirements. Sure, the M9 fits the bill, and I've already got the 28 and 50 mm lenses for it, but it's too expensive for me and has too many issues for me as well, particularly at that price.

I find this camera appealing. $2k is a lot of cash though. I'll wait at least until it's officially announced :)

I finally admitted that there was no way I could continue to follow the upgrade path for digital M. The M8 is a great camera and gives me RF satisfaction. However, the direction of digital M development isn't going where I want to be. I cashed out my top dollar M lenses. Have kept what I need for film and for the M8. I'd love the functionality of a D700, but would never ever carry that thing with me.

I've been waiting for two years from something like this from Fuji.

Fuji, CV, and Zeiss: Now, if any two of these three companies were to get together, that would be a game changer. As it is, the Fuji X-Pro will probably take care of most of my needs, except the preference for a mechanical rangefinder and its VF.