Fujifilm X-Pro1 details leaked!!!

[jskjsk]

The conversation regarding true nature of rangefinder is rather similar to people talking democratization of technology

I remember when type setting was possible in computers. The type setter associations declared that it was a none issue. No one would ever change their font in computers and get good quality. With in 2 years, the type setters disappeared.

Maybe it is not about rangefinders. Rangefinder seems like was the last hold on using film. As more cameras with rangefinder look or ability without film, the film will truly disappear.

Regardless, GXR, GF2 or whatever that can take rangefinder lens, along with cameras that mimic the look or certain ability of a rangefinder will make sure that the film will be gone.

[tbarker13]

I've never gotten the obsession with the actual rangefinder focusing mechanism.
I was drawn to Leica by the high quality of the lenses, solid build, and small form factor. Despite using Leicas for 20 years, I still only have a rudimentary understanding of how a rangefinder works.
The fact is, I don't care how it works. I just want the small form factor and high-quality output.
That's enough for me.

[tbarker13]

But the clincher is this: I will never, ever buy a DSLR. For years I have looked wistfully at the D700 and its capabilities, but I know that no matter how good they may be, I would never ever want to carry that thing with me. Ever.



I get this.
I do have a D700. I love it for studio work. Or shoots where I won't have to tote the thing around very much. But it's just too big for me to comfortably carry it around for much more than that.

[gavinlg]

I've never gotten the obsession with the actual rangefinder focusing mechanism.
I was drawn to Leica by the high quality of the lenses, solid build, and small form factor. Despite using Leicas for 20 years, I still only have a rudimentary understanding of how a rangefinder works.
The fact is, I don't care how it works. I just want the small form factor and high-quality output.
That's enough for me.

Yeah, 100%. I get about the same hit rate with my x100 as I do a manual focus rangefinder - possibly even better.

[Leigh Youdale]

I still have dreams of another manufactuer making a m mount, mechanical rangefinder, digital camera at a more reasonable price. In the meantime, Fuji is filling in the gap nicely.

I'm actually with you there. I was really hoping that Cosina would bring out the Bessa RD-2a with a full frame sensor and able to take the CV lenses. There are a lot of Epson RD-1 owners who'd jump at it. I guess there must have been some non-compete clauses in the manufacturing agreement with Epson (which must expire at some stage). I'm sure they have the capability - there has to be some reason - but maybe their entry to the m4/3 consortium (although not FF), Epson's clear disinterest in continuing in camera production, and Fuji's stellar success with the X series might yet produce something interesting. Being aligned with m4/3 may give Cosina access to a decent sensor, but then again would Olympus and Panasonic want the competition that Cosina would give them? That might also be reflected in some conditions of Cosina's m4/3 licence. I'm sure all these arguments have been put to MrK before. We can only hope.

[Leigh Youdale]

Yeah, 100%. I get about the same hit rate with my x100 as I do a manual focus rangefinder - possibly even better.

I rather regret to have to say that I'm finding the same with the X10!
However, the fondle factor isn't the same.

[Leigh Youdale]

Maybe it is not about rangefinders. Rangefinder seems like was the last hold on using film. As more cameras with rangefinder look or ability without film, the film will truly disappear.

Regardless, GXR, GF2 or whatever that can take rangefinder lens, along with cameras that mimic the look or certain ability of a rangefinder will make sure that the film will be gone.

I doubt that will happen entirely as there are too many traditionalists and old farts like myself who enjoy the process from beginning to end and not just getting something that looks good on a computer screen or Flickr. Plus it's not just about 35mm which is, I think, the main thrust of your post even if unstated. There are a lot of LF and MF photographers who will still provide a market for film. But it will become more expensive and restricted in choice both as to size and type.

[Matus]

Fuji just announced the lens road map for X-Pro1:

(To supplement the 18mm F2.0, 35mm F1.4 and 60mm F2.4 Macro already announced)

2012:
14mm f/2.8
18-72mm f/4.0 with Image Stabilization

2013:
28mm f/2.8 pancake
23mm f/2.0
72-200mm f/4.0 Image Stabilization
12-24mm f/4.0 Image Stabilization

... looks GOOD :)

[MikeL]

I just found this site and thought I'd share the link: http://www.dpreview.com/

There are some interesting discussions on the Fuji X-Pro1 and other cameras there too! Check it out!

[jskjsk]

I just found this site and thought I'd share the link: http://www.dpreview.com/

There are some interesting discussions on the Fuji X-Pro1 and other cameras there too! Check it out!

dp review. sounds dirty. is this a porn site?

[MikeL]

dp review. sounds dirty. is this a porn site?

;)

No, but the focus on hard, round plastic things is pretty similar.

[koven]

dp review. sounds dirty. is this a porn site?

hahahaha


Im excited about this cam because its basically an m9. When you go to the The fuji x100 thread is like night and day when you compare the subject matter and quality. The xpro will produce some classic images in the upcoming years and maybe by someone on this board. I cant wait!!

[Benjamin Marks]

dp review. sounds dirty. is this a porn site?
Only for the gear-obsessed. I mean, if you know anyone like that.

[Nikon Bob]

They're calling it a 'compact DSLR' :eek::confused: Must be a different camera altogether:D

They might be confusing it with the XS-1.

Bob

[palec]

Fuji just announced the lens road map for X-Pro1:

(To supplement the 18mm F2.0, 35mm F1.4 and 60mm F2.4 Macro already announced)

2012:
14mm f/2.8
18-72mm f/4.0 with Image Stabilization

2013:
28mm f/2.8 pancake
23mm f/2.0
72-200mm f/4.0 Image Stabilization
12-24mm f/4.0 Image Stabilization

... looks GOOD :)

I wonder how will be those zooms and 14mm wideangle presented in non-zooming optical viewfinder.

[setyotomo]

X100 and x10 price drops about 10% in my local store :D

[christian.rudman]

It feels like porn when you read the entire XP1 preview they posted:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilmxpro1/

Drool. I'm going to have to fight an initial buy urge so hard. I sure hope my local rental place has a tester available...

With the FF announcements and no real image comparisons on the new sensor tech, I'm going to have to hold back for now. I can say I have zero interest in other mirrorless camera systems now. Especially after seeing the fujiguys hands on actually discuss the M-mount compatibility that they allowed for. Framelines for any focal length you can personally program in!!!!

Now to just see how they deal with manual focus confirmation in optical mode...

[totifoto]

Fuji has some samples here.....

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_pro1/sample_images

It is not as WOW-ing as I hoped for, all that hype about some new sensor tec might have giving me more hopes. But still its not so bad.

This camera is good looking though :rolleyes:

[noimmunity]

Fuji has some samples here.....

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_pro1/sample_images

It is not as WOW-ing as I hoped for, all that hype about some new sensor tec might have giving me more hopes. But still its not so bad.

This camera is good looking though :rolleyes:

Yes, there are some issues, but: 1) the color is really good; 2) the new sensor pattern means that new algorithms are required to process the RAW. There could be a delay before we can get the most out of these files...

[digitalintrigue]

Yes, hopefully Fuji has already informed Adobe about how to code the RAW...so there won't be a delay.

[noimmunity]

I doubt that will happen entirely as there are too many traditionalists and old farts like myself who enjoy the process from beginning to end and not just getting something that looks good on a computer screen or Flickr. Plus it's not just about 35mm which is, I think, the main thrust of your post even if unstated. There are a lot of LF and MF photographers who will still provide a market for film. But it will become more expensive and restricted in choice both as to size and type.

I will continue to use and love film until the end. But color film for general everyday use is too expensive for me. I am already using almost exclusively bulk film stock for B&W, with the regular splurge into Velvia. Since I still want to shoot color on an everyday basis, digital appeals to me there.

[jtullar]

some high ISO examples found in this gallery!

http://www.pbase.com/hpicckcy/image/140797515

[digitalintrigue]

Seems like pretty quick operation and shutter noise is minimal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXL_YraX8dc#!

[uhoh7]

"now fuji only needs to make one in full frame!!!"
with a rangefinder in it, then Id be really happy!!!!!
Sounds really interesting though.... :)

+1

Here we have the best un-leica so far, crippled by lack of focusing aids.

In a camera with both a working EVF and OVF with mags, I don't understand why they are not projecting one to other like a patch or some varient thereof.

The nex EVF is actually extremely good for focusing with highspeed RF glass, and fast when you get used to it. I use the mag for high speed stuff, but the button makes it fast, and the EVF image is sharp and bright--with a diopter good to -4.25 vision.

But I doubt the 5n sensor is as good as the fuji with RF wides.

The day when we have a 2kUSD small FF EVIL body good with leica glass is getting closer.

[Spyro]

I've never gotten the obsession with the actual rangefinder focusing mechanism.
I was drawn to Leica by the high quality of the lenses, solid build, and small form factor. Despite using Leicas for 20 years, I still only have a rudimentary understanding of how a rangefinder works.
The fact is, I don't care how it works. I just want the small form factor and high-quality output. That's enough for me.

Same. I dont even like rangefinder focusing, I'm into rangefinder cameras mainly for the lenses and the overall size of the system.
Contax G2 and Hexar AF are perfect for me.

[dbarnes]

The more I learn about this thing, the more I like it! Fuji definitely was listening to feedback about the X100. (If you haven't watched this video yet, check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXL_YraX8dc#)

[fireblade]

X100 and x10 price drops about 10% in my local store :D


over here the X100 went from $1149 to $999.

[celluloidprop]

That video makes it look fantastic. I'm sure there are or will be complaints that Fuji used X100 buyers as market research guinea pigs, but that's a fantastic camera in and of itself. This looks better.

[Focal Plane Circus]

over here the X100 went from $1149 to $999.
And back again today :rolleyes:

[Focal Plane Circus]

I just pre-ordered. I am 1st on the list at my local store :D:D:D:D
http://www.henrys.com/Images/Fuji-X-Pro1-Compact-DSLR-header.jpg
You called Henrys long before I did. Alvaro said I'm pre-order # 11. If Henrys only gets 10 X-Pro1's ... :bang:

Downtown Camera (also in Toronto) is taking pre-orders too at the same estimated prices as at Henrys - $1700 for the body, lenses $600-$650 each.

[Focal Plane Circus]

Has anyone posted Hugo Poon's X-Pro1 Flickr album?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26706225@N08/sets/72157628776530535/

This Hong Kong amateur photog has friends in high places at Fuji. He shot 1000+ images with a borrowed X-Pro1 prototype last December, when the rest of us were poring over "Fuji LX" rumors and squinting at fuzzy leaked prototype shots. :)

[randomm]

I'm mildly irritated by the "upgrade" path that at least many dSLR users seem to have: from crop-factor camera to full frame sensor. Its almost given: it is assumed that if you're serious about photography, once you've "learned the ropes" with a crop camera, you'll want a full frame.

Yeah, I did that. Then gave up digital cameras for over a year altogether, and now am amazed by the quality of photos I get from a 4 year old Canon 450D @ 1600 ISO, after some noise cancellation in PP (obviously would've loved a digital RF, but hey, this Canon was 245 euros with 2 month warranty, try to beat that!). I still hate the finder though.

APS-C cameras are very capable in terms of image quality. Only negative thing is the fact that my Canon 35/2 LTM becomes a 56mm lens on one :(

[christian.rudman]

Yes, hopefully Fuji has already informed Adobe about how to code the RAW...so there won't be a delay.


Quote from the dpreview.com hands on preview:

"Fujifilm says it will work closely with software suppliers such as Adobe to ensure that the X-Pro1 gets timely third-party RAW support."

Seems like they are on top of things already Robert. :)

(Check the page three Sensor and Lenses section)

[Leigh Youdale]

Why get irritated by someone wanting something other than what you want ?

I'm a bit sympathetic to Tom's point, although for different reasons. The camera has been mooted for many months and everyone has had ample opportunity to advise Fuji of their particular and individual needs. Now the camera is out in the market place and people are carrying on as if Fuji should wave a magic wand and convert all the cameras in the pipeline and suddenly fulfil everyone's desires.

Like it or leave it - if you don't like it or are a definite non-purchaser then stop bleating! It's done - over. Fuji have spec'd the camera for reasons that seem sensible and achievable to them. If they don't match your particular agenda items then bad luck. It's not going to happen this time around.

Especially annoying are those who are still demanding a fully-featured, Leica M9 competitive offering that delivers everything everybody ever asked for at a price below $2000. Get a life - or start saving seriously. Maybe you'll have enough when a second-generation camera body appears in a year or two. For a start the US economy has tanked and the buying power of the dollar for imported products has shifted. It might recover given enough time and good economic management. I don't know what it is against the Yen but it's lost nearly 20% of value to the Australian dollar which is now above parity on most days - up from about 80+% a year or two back. Stop blaming Fuji! Same goes for Cosina.

Next, if you want a quality camera you'll need to pay for it, including the R&D and the fact that you're part of a niche RF market where volumes are going to be low and the overhead and setup costs for a new camera are spread across a smaller sales spectrum. Fuji does not have the market dominance of Nikon or Canon .

Fuji lenses cost $600-650? Golly gosh! Zeiss M-mount lenses run at around $800-900 for the budget end (about 1.5x) and most are $1200-1300 - double the Fuji prices. Voigtlander M-mount lenses run at about $600 up to $1300 or more for similar specs and good quality glass. About the same ballpark as Fuji. Nothing to criticise in Fuji's lens prices then.

Camera bodies? Try an M7 at $6500 or, perhaps more directly as it's digital, the M9 at $7000 to $8000 depending on model. Bit pricey? Would Zeiss quality be sufficient for you? The ZI body at $1600 is comparable in price to the Fuji. So what's to remark on there? Want something cheaper? The Bessa is under $800.

OK. The rant is over, but before you express your disappointment that the XPro-1 isn't affordable for you or doesn't have your favourite or most desired feature, reflect on how much it does offer and how it's shifted the game on RF design for the future. Your dream camera might just be a year or two away but dummy spitting (it hasn't got a phone built in - it's a deal breaker) and criticising negatively isn't doing anything for anybody - unless it makes you feel better.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Next, if you want a quality camera you'll need to pay for it, including the R&D and the fact that you're part of a niche RF market where volumes are going to be low and the overhead and setup costs for a new camera are spread across a smaller sales spectrum. Fuji does not have the market dominance of Nikon or Canon .

Fuji is not a small company, they're probably quite a bit larger than Nikon, which is a very small company. Fuji's camera sales are less than Nikon's by quite a bit, but they're still a much larger business by virtue of being involved in a much larger range of products, many unrelated to photography (like medical equipment and industrial chemicals). Fuji's low camera sales are their own fault; they choose to make them in small numbers and they choose to not market them effectively. I don't see why I should pay for their laziness.

OK. The rant is over, but before you express your disappointment that the XPro-1 isn't affordable for you or doesn't have your favourite or most desired feature, reflect on how much it does offer and how it's shifted the game on RF design for the future. Your dream camera might just be a year or two away but dummy spitting (it hasn't got a phone built in - it's a deal breaker) and criticising negatively isn't doing anything for anybody - unless it makes you feel better.

I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT.

Criticism by consumers can and very often DOES cause prices to drop, quality to improve, and changes in product design/function/features. If those who are disappointed with the new Fuji camera just sit down and shut up, all that will be accomplished is higher prices, lower quality, and corporate indifference to the needs and wants of their customers. I do not see how that benefits anyone, least of all you if you intend to actually buy this camera.

WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Same. I dont even like rangefinder focusing, I'm into rangefinder cameras mainly for the lenses and the overall size of the system.
Contax G2 and Hexar AF are perfect for me.

If you really don't like rangefinders, check out the Olympus OM system. A top-level OM body, the OM-4T, is only about $400 in magnificent condition. Its SMALLER than a Leica M body, has FAR better metering, isn't a rangefinder, has incredibly sharp lenses that are CHEAP. I have three of them and a bunch of OM lenses.

[NazgulKing]

I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT.

Criticism by consumers can and very often DOES cause prices to drop, quality to improve, and changes in product design/function/features. If those who are disappointed with the new Fuji camera just sit down and shut up, all that will be accomplished is higher prices, lower quality, and corporate indifference to the needs and wants of their customers. I do not see how that benefits anyone, least of all you if you intend to actually buy this camera.

WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.
The flip side is that Fuji is likely aiming at a target market that doesn't need some features, and has the pockets to pay for what they are offering.

As for Leica, the price increases were bound to happen what with the rise in rare earth prices. Also, it so happens that a new market in China sprung up and outnumber most other markets and thus other markets started falling in terms of importance.

[rxmd]

I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT. [...] WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.

However, some proposals, such as the often-asked-for $2000 full-frame digital rangefinder, are just not reasonable themselves.

It's not that companies don't make them because they're evil, or because they're greedy. They don't make $2000 full-frame rangefinders because it's just not a realistic way to make money. Wishful thinking by a small group of people heavily invested in legacy lenses doesn't make it any more realistic.

This camera here at $1500 to $1700 or so is what is realistic at the moment. People who want more need to either wait, or adjust their expectations.

Full frame is overrated anyway. If you don't have legacy lenses, you don't need full frame; and if you do have legacy lenses, you're less likely to buy new lenses, and hence uninteresting for manufacturers.

[rxmd]

As for Leica, the price increases were bound to happen what with the rise in rare earth prices. Also, it so happens that a new market in China sprung up and outnumber most other markets and thus other markets started falling in terms of importance.

I don't think the price increases have much to do with the rare earth prices, other kinds of electronics weren't really affected by those (Thai floods notwithstanding). It has more to do with the fact that the luxury buyer segment, while small, is as affluent as ever and is scooping up the small production runs of Leica products as fast as they can make them.

Next time you want to buy a Leica product, remember that you're competing with Brad Pitt and Seal.

[Spyro]

If you really don't like rangefinders, check out the Olympus OM system. A top-level OM body, the OM-4T, is only about $400 in magnificent condition. Its SMALLER than a Leica M body, has FAR better metering, isn't a rangefinder, has incredibly sharp lenses that are CHEAP. I have three of them and a bunch of OM lenses.

yes I know, I have an OM system with 5 lenses and still shoot it occasionally, it's awesome. I generally prefer mirrorless with a really good AF system like the Hexar's which is my main film shooter. If I could couple it with interchangeable lenses I think my quest would be over. Fuji is getting dangerously close here, but still no cigar (and to be perfectly honest I'm not sure I want the quest to be over, its been kinda fun ;))

[Leigh Youdale]

Fuji is not a small company, they're probably quite a bit larger than Nikon, which is a very small company. Fuji's camera sales are less than Nikon's by quite a bit, but they're still a much larger business by virtue of being involved in a much larger range of products, many unrelated to photography (like medical equipment and industrial chemicals). Fuji's low camera sales are their own fault; they choose to make them in small numbers and they choose to not market them effectively. I don't see why I should pay for their laziness.

...........Chris, you've actually made the point for me but see it in a different light. Fuji's photographic business is smaller, true, but in overall size they are big. It's not their fault and it's not laziness. It's a strategy called diversification when you don't put all your eggs in one basket. It's a choice they've made about the way they structure their business. They're not just about cameras.

I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT.

...........Chris, criticism that makes a point is important as you say. Criticism which is just emotive venting, and which I see too much of in RFF threads when a new camera comes out, is just immature and no help to anyone. Talk about what you'd like to see in an upgrade but don't just do a dummy-spit without contributing to what that might be just sucks the energy from what should be a rational and productive debate. (I'm not directing this at you "you" by the way).

Criticism by consumers can and very often DOES cause prices to drop, quality to improve, and changes in product design/function/features. .......

.......That's very indirect. The impact on projected sales revenue driven by technology and competitor actions are the more likely triggers for these.

If those who are disappointed with the new Fuji camera just sit down and shut up, ,,,,,

,,,,, and I'm saying some of them should just do that because they offer nothing positive.

........all that will be accomplished is higher prices, lower quality, and corporate indifference to the needs and wants of their customers. I do not see how that benefits anyone, least of all you if you intend to actually buy this camera.

....... well, there are competing camera designs and companies which play a large part in achieving corrections what you outline here.

WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.

...... I think we could have a long philosophical argument about this. Your argument is self defeating simply by the fact that enough people have enough spending money and exercise their choices in a way that rewards their expectations, that individual actions here are insignificant in the overall scheme of things. The fact that you disagree with those choices or the way others spend their discretionary income has no bearing or influence at all - it's just a personal position and opinion. You can vote your dollars in any direction you want. It won't make a jot of difference to what others decide to do - especially whether I decide to buy this camera or not. Actually I've decided not to because although I like the sound of it and the increased range of lenses they are planning, I still take B&W film in the main and the cameras I have satisfy me. I don't need to spend $3500 dollars or more on a new kit. If I was cutting back to one camera, however, I'd have to rethink that decision. By that stage though the X10 might be all I'd need anyway!

[dexdog]

Next time you want to buy a Leica product, remember that you're competing with Brad Pitt and Seal.

Wouldn't be much of a competition for me...;)

[j.scooter]

Seems like pretty quick operation and shutter noise is minimal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXL_YraX8dc#!


At 2:41 in the video it shows an option to enable SILENT MODE

[noimmunity]

However, some proposals, such as the often-asked-for $2000 full-frame digital rangefinder, are just not reasonable themselves.

Even the $7000 M9 still has considerable difficulties with certain lenses at the wide end. As this fact began to sink in on me, I realized that I was in too deep over my head, and decided to adjust my expectations and partially cash out of the M system. I am very happy now with a neato-cool M film kit and a neato-cool M crop kit, and have given up my expectations for full frame M mount.

I still guard enthusiasm and hope that some combination of Zeiss, Cosina and Fuji will get together to produce an affordable, updated crop-factor M mount manual focus digital rangefinder, incorporating some novel technologies while keeping the essential simplicity of the RF.

If cost/performance ratio is your highest priority, and "performance" is determined by output, you will have to go where the market segment is large enough to bring costs down: that means either the DSLR or the future.

If "performance" is determined by factors such as VF framing, form factor, focus mechanism, etc. etc., you may have to accept the price increase that corresponds to a smaller niche market.

If "performance" is determined by "status"--and let's recognize that this may not be simply a vanity consideration, but may also have to do with subject interaction--a luxury brand is the only option.

[gavinlg]

At 2:41 in the video it shows an option to enable SILENT MODE

Probably meaning that all menu sounds and AF beep are turned off - not silent as in hexar AF silent mode.

[Lss]

The nex EVF is actually extremely good for focusing with highspeed RF glass, and fast when you get used to it. I use the mag for high speed stuff,
I don't have the EVF for my NEX-5N yet (it's a lot of money considering the price of the body+lens kit), so can't comment on that. (I'm thinking about buying it and really hope it will give some improvement also in manual focusing.) With the rear screen, however, I have found the opposite. The magnification is great for anything slow and static, but not really usable when you have very little time and need to compose while focusing. I was hoping the focus peaking would help there, which is not really the case. It's a good help in the magnified mode, unreliable in normal view.

User experience of course is always a personal thing.

[j.scooter]

I can't access the video right now, but if I remember correctly there was a separate menu for sounds. When she was at the section with silent mode she mentioned shutter options.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Time will tell.

[Spyro]

I can't access the video right now, but if I remember correctly there was a separate menu for sounds. When she was at the section with silent mode she mentioned shutter options.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Time will tell.

nah dont hold your breath... how many metal focal plane shutters do you know that are silent?
you can hear the shutter sound on the video, it sounds a bit like a bessa

[jsrockit]

Im excited about this cam because its basically an m9.

How so? :eek:

[digitalintrigue]

It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)

[jsrockit]

It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)

I hate lists... but then again, maybe I don't.

[noimmunity]

I can't wait till somebody puts a red dot on the thing, and then another person cries out it should be black!

Maybe the camera will herald the arrival of "ex pros", people who have gone beyond the dualistic world :angel:

[dogbunny]

Has there been any suggestion / indication of a release date?

[bwcolor]

They said that it will ship at the end of February.

[j j]

It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)

No it doesn't!

[jsrockit]

Expansys excuse for pricing error...

http://www.expansys.com/ft.aspx?k=246904&siteID=TnL5HPStwNw-oR6Q8VhEXX9uZzJDV8nxOg&ito=LKSTnL5HPStwNw

[regularchickens]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ChjzvHPOq4

Here's a video from the CES show floor. It's in Vietnamese, but it demonstrates the features well (including a nice burst of rapid focusing/shooting) and illustrates the size comparison with the X100. Also, it shows how the camera will look after heavy handling - lots of fingerprints all over it there. :)

I'm totally in love with the size, heft, and finish of the camera. It has that fondle factor that the X100 only approached and never achieved for me.

[rover]

Expansys excuse for pricing error...

http://www.expansys.com/ft.aspx?k=246904&siteID=TnL5HPStwNw-oR6Q8VhEXX9uZzJDV8nxOg&ito=LKSTnL5HPStwNw

$1,400 for the body alone is still $300 less than the expected or assumed MSRP for the item, so if true it is still some good news, just not a real knockout.

[rover]

I finally gave it a look, and notice that the camera does not use image stabilization on the sensor, why oh why?

Not a deal-breaker for many, but certainly a disappointment from my point of view.

Agreed, this is a silly omission. We did survive the first 100 years of photography without image stabilization, but it is such a basic useful technological advancement, it needs to be/should be provided for in every new camera system today.

[alien8]

I finally gave it a look, and notice that the camera does not use image stabilization on the sensor, why oh why?

Not a deal-breaker for many, but certainly a disappointment from my point of view.

I think it's more surprising that they don't employ image stabilization in the lenses. My guess is that, in both cases, it was due to space constraints.

[Joe AC]

$1,400 for the body alone is still $300 less than the expected or assumed MSRP for the item, so if true it is still some good news, just not a real knockout.

When is the official price being released?

Thanks
Joe

[semordnilap]

When is the official price being released?

Thanks
Joe

After they receive enough pre-orders ;)

[Athos6]

I've watched all the videos of this camera and there are a few with the lens off, I haven't actually seen the shutter in any of them...

[little jack]

It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)

it's truly pathetic when listed like this- but eerily accurate- perhaps your list is the confused binary base code for the collective hive mind in action. This list is perfect for the Leica forum too. And I feel sure - all the others...

Whether Like or Hate- both display interest- for the likers this is clearly understandable... for the haters things are not so clear...

[jsrockit]

When is the official price being released?

Thanks
Joe

After they read through all of the reactions around the internet regarding the rumored prices... ;)

[Turtle]

oh, boy. this is looking better and better. I just hope the AF and MF are up to snuff.

[RedLion]

Since I have film M rangefinders, my BIG question on this camera is: how do you focus with it when using legacy M rangefinder glass?

Can you still use the optical viewfinder? If so, what will my focus aid be? An AF point overlay? A Focus peaking overlay?

OR will I have to use the EVF? If so, what will my focus aid be? Magnification? Focus peaking? An AF point overlay?

Joe

[jsrockit]

Since I have film M rangefinders, my BIG question on this camera is: how do you focus with it when using legacy M rangefinder glass?

Can you still use the optical viewfinder? If so, what will my focus aid be? An AF point overlay? A Focus peaking overlay?

OR will I have to use the EVF? If so, what will my focus aid be? Magnification? Focus peaking? An AF point overlay?

Joe

There was no reason for Fuji to answer questions regarding use of leica lenses on its product. This will be answered by third parties reviewing the camera a few months from now.

[séamuis]

I think it's more surprising that they don't employ image stabilization in the lenses. My guess is that, in both cases, it was due to space constraints.

the Pentax Q has SR, and it doesn't get much smaller than that for an interchangeable lens camera, so I don't think space constraint was an actual issue. if I'm not mistaken, I've read several sources that say future lenses for the Xmount will have stabilization.

[jsrockit]

if I'm not mistaken, I've read several sources that say future lenses for the Xmount will have stabilization.

Yep, they did say the zoom lenses would have it which makes sense because they are not fast lenses. With fast apertures and high ISO, IS isn't as important to me. It would be nice though.

[JohnL]

I think it's more surprising that they don't employ image stabilization in the lenses. My guess is that, in both cases, it was due to space constraints.

Their idea seems to be short focal length >>> fast small primes >>> no IS. Slower and longer zooms >>> IS in lens.
Pretty sound reasoning, I'd say.

[intheviewfinder]

Interesting discussion about stabilization. Personally I've never used it on primes less than 85mm (or equiv) on my cameras. For instance I often stuff a Nikkor 20mm f2.8 or 35mm f2 on my D90 and go out. I get some pretty sharp shots. I think the wider angles really don't need it but shooting zooms may be a whole different matter especially in low light.

[filmtwit]

So, when are all of us X100 owners gonna dump our X100's and buy the new x-Pro?

[jsrockit]

So, when are all of us X100 owners gonna dump our X100's and buy the new x-Pro?

Ah, perhaps we are going to use both... :)

[tbarker13]

If anyone finds a promising pre-order spot, speak up.
Amazon now just has a wish list, where they'll notify you when the camera is available.

[Nikon Bob]

I finally gave it a look, and notice that the camera does not use image stabilization on the sensor, why oh why?

Not a deal-breaker for many, but certainly a disappointment from my point of view.

That puzzles me also but like you not a deal breaker. I would like to know Fuji's explanation of why in body IS was left out. It is a useful garden variety feature in today's digital world. My experience with IS has been nothing but good.

Bob

[celluloidprop]

So, when are all of us X100 owners gonna dump our X100's and buy the new x-Pro?

When the XP1 has Lightroom support and I get one. I don't see enough differentiation in favor of the X100 to need it too.

[tom.w.bn]

So, when are all of us X100 owners gonna dump our X100's and buy the new x-Pro?

When I'm on my regular short business trips I don't have room for my DSLR or even my M8. The X100 is my business trip companion so why should I dump it? The X-Pro would not solve this problem. And remeber the X100 is the 35mm lens in the X-Pro 1 setup ;)

[Benjamin Oliver]

There was no reason for Fuji to answer questions regarding use of leica lenses on its product. This will be answered by third parties reviewing the camera a few months from now.

I think Fuji does need to answer this question, and they probably have an answer. Since they mention an M Mount adapter in the FujiGuys videos.

[jsrockit]

I think Fuji does need to answer this question, and they probably have an answer. Since they mention an M Mount adapter in the FujiGuys videos.

That's true, but the adapter hasn't been released. Perhaps it hasn't been finalized. The fact that they are making a brand name adapter at all should at least make you feel comfortable that they put some effort into making it work relatively well.

[apodeictic]

I can't wait till somebody puts a red dot on the thing, and then another person cries out it should be black!

On a related note, I wonder if the auto-focus assist lamp was colored green instead of red so the similarities wouldn't be so pronounced. :D

Also I'm getting a kick out of Fuji's PR people talking about Leica without dropping it by name. My favourite is "flap top rangefinder style camera" when they were comparing the ergonomics of the X-Pro1 to Leica.

[noimmunity]

And remeber the X100 is the 35mm lens in the X-Pro 1 setup ;)

You will be glad to see that a 35 efov lens for the XP1 has already been announced.

In fact, there is now 21-28-35-50.

Since everybody has had their turn, it's mine now: where's the dang 24/25 prime? Sheesh, the one effective focal length that is really hard to come by in third party lenses (there ain't many 16s out there)! Hard luck for a 24-50 type like me. So far the only option is to go for one of the zooms...:(

But I'll still get it, if I can afford it, and I'll live.

[jsrockit]

You will be glad to see that a 35 efov lens for the XP1 has already been announced.

In fact, there is now 21-28-35-50.

Don't forget the 42mm pancake 2.8!

[noimmunity]

Don't forget the 42mm pancake 2.8!

Totally forgot about that, dude. Fantastic!

[Benjamin Oliver]

You will be glad to see that a 35 efov lens for the XP1 has already been announced.

In fact, there is now 21-28-35-50.

Since everybody has had their turn, it's mine now: where's the dang 24/25 prime? Sheesh, the one effective focal length that is really hard to come by in third party lenses (there ain't many 16s out there)! Hard luck for a 24-50 type like me. So far the only option is to go for one of the zooms...:(

But I'll still get it, if I can afford it, and I'll live.

Is there a link for the more comprehensive lens lineup?

[alien8]

the Pentax Q has SR, and it doesn't get much smaller than that for an interchangeable lens camera, so I don't think space constraint was an actual issue. if I'm not mistaken, I've read several sources that say future lenses for the Xmount will have stabilization.

Does the q have the stabilization in the lenses or the body? In either case it must be easier to implement in compact way for a smaller image circle?

I think for stills the lack of IS won't pose too much of an issue since, as others have pointed out, they are release fast lenses to pair with good high ISO performance. But it does seem to me that a stabilized video function is more or less de rigeur these days for almost any new camera package. That said, this camera certainly doesn't look like a film maker's camera.

[jsrockit]

Is there a link for the more comprehensive lens lineup?

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/the-fuji-x-lens-roadmap-amazon-lists-the-fuji-stuff-but-with-no-price/

[filmtwit]

Give Fuji another year to finish up those 7 lenses and i bet one will be a 24mm (35mm equiv). Plus you can always run one of your M-Mount 35mm if you really really need it.

When I'm on my regular short business trips I don't have room for my DSLR or even my M8. The X100 is my business trip companion so why should I dump it? The X-Pro would not solve this problem. And remeber the X100 is the 35mm lens in the X-Pro 1 setup ;)

[Turtle]

If I get an X-pro 1, I will be keeping my X100 as the tiny one camera/lens carry everywhere camera. It would also a useful backup when toting a larger X-Pro kit.

[jsrockit]

If anyone finds a promising pre-order spot, speak up.

http://www.x100forum.com/index.php?/topic/3348-x-pro1-pre-orders/

[Benjamin Oliver]

If I get an X-pro 1, I will be keeping my X100 as the tiny one camera/lens carry everywhere camera. It would also a useful backup when toting a larger X-Pro kit.

I feel the same way. The X100's size is a strong advantage that will keep it in my kit for as long as it lasts.

[rbelyell]

appropos of AA filters does anyone know if the x100 has an AA filter?

[celluloidprop]

Very cool, that's my local camera shop.

[celluloidprop]

I've gotten moire in a couple of instances (lawn chair with fine mesh back), so if the X100 does have a AA filter, I suspect it's somewhat weak.

[uhoh7]

I'm mildly irritated by the "upgrade" path that at least many dSLR users seem to have: from crop-factor camera to full frame sensor. Its almost given: it is assumed that if you're serious about photography, once you've "learned the ropes" with a crop camera, you'll want a full frame.

Yeah, I did that. Then gave up digital cameras for over a year altogether, and now am amazed by the quality of photos I get from a 4 year old Canon 450D @ 1600 ISO, after some noise cancellation in PP (obviously would've loved a digital RF, but hey, this Canon was 245 euros with 2 month warranty, try to beat that!). I still hate the finder though.

APS-C cameras are very capable in terms of image quality. Only negative thing is the fact that my Canon 35/2 LTM becomes a 56mm lens on one :(

My post, which used to have an image, seems to have drawn this fire.

+1

Here we have the best un-leica so far, crippled by lack of focusing aids.

In a camera with both a working EVF and OVF with mags, I don't understand why they are not projecting one to other like a patch or some varient thereof.

The nex EVF is actually extremely good for focusing with highspeed RF glass, and fast when you get used to it. I use the mag for high speed stuff, but the button makes it fast, and the EVF image is sharp and bright--with a diopter good to -4.25 vision.

But I doubt the 5n sensor is as good as the fuji with RF wides.

It was a very shallow dof shot
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/6676376025_791c158173_b.jpg
and there was some question as to why I posted it in the first place.
It's with the Canon LTM 85/1.5, which is very very hard to focus wide open, and was to emphasize how the nex EVF, which is 10 times better than any previous, allows precise focus, fairly quickly. OK 3.8 times better. It's the second best way, at the moment, to focus a RF lens.

The xpro-1 has this fantastic optical finder, but unless I'm mistaken, it's useless in the situation posed by the photo.

The day when we have a 2kUSD small FF EVIL body good with leica glass is getting closer.

The guy I'm quoting at the top thought the pic was a salute to the shallow DOF provided by FF, and apparently spawned his irritation.

Fron the record:

I've never owned a DSLR.

I have an M6 and colordial IIIa, a GS645, and a nex 5n.

I would like my 28 cron to be a 28, not a 43, OK? To get 28 now, I have to reach for a slow, albeit excellent ZM18. I don't have 6k for an M9 right now.

The advantages of a functional full frame digital sensor to someone who owns a number of RF lenses is so obvious, so huge, I'm not even going to go on. Randomm, if you cannot see that, I am in mild disbelief. ;)

I love the Xpro-1, even though I will never own one--I don't think--because it's big and unpleasant to focus RF glass compared to current alternatives (I may be wrong). I hope it sells like crazy, because that will bring a serious FULL FRAME un-leica even closer :)

[dcsang]

I've gone and placed a "pre-pre-order" :D :D

To the best of my knowledge Fuji has not figured out how they're going to sell these cameras/lenses - for example, are they going to offer a kit or is it strictly "a la carte" (ooops.. wait.. is that a copyrighted Leica term ?!?!?! :D ) - at least that's what's going on up here in Canada.

Regardless of what people at Henry's or Downtown or Vistek say - no one has heard directly from Fuji on exact pricing and exact combinations (or lack thereof) for the camera body or lenses.

The assumption is, of course, that one would obviously buy the body and lens together since the m-mount adapter is not even created at this point.

So, before I plunk down a deposit on something I would like to know what that something is and the end cost of that something :D

Cheers,
Dave

[jagarch]

If Fuji is going to offer wider lenses for the camera, how are they going to adjust the optical viewfinder? It comes with a magnifier which can adjust for the 3 initial lenses, but wider lenses will need a wider viewfinder, no? or goggles?

[celluloidprop]

Fuji may well be treating the OVF as a compromise - it will work completely with the original focal lengths (or those close).


The EVF may be required for super-wides and will almost definitely be required for legacy lenses.

[astrosecret]

this is a dream camera and I wish I could afford it right now. It seems fuji has priced many people out of the market. Regardless, I'm sure after all is said and done there is very little margin for profit on a system like this so I understand their price tag. i'd be comfortable at nex-7 prices but honestly i could grab a used m8 and would rather do that :/

[filmtwit]

IN the back of my head I keep wondering about keeping the Canon, then I remember I need great glass 85mm and longer . . .

I feel the same way. The X100's size is a strong advantage that will keep it in my kit for as long as it lasts.

[filmtwit]

Isn't a used M8 more then X-pro1?

this is a dream camera and I wish I could afford it right now. It seems fuji has priced many people out of the market. Regardless, I'm sure after all is said and done there is very little margin for profit on a system like this so I understand their price tag. i'd be comfortable at nex-7 prices but honestly i could grab a used m8 and would rather do that :/

[tbarker13]

Isn't a used M8 more then X-pro1?

Yeah, even with a used M8, your cost of entry is likely to be higher, once you factor in the cost of lenses. Unless the used M8 market has fallen faster than I realize.

[jsrockit]

If Fuji is going to offer wider lenses for the camera, how are they going to adjust the optical viewfinder? It comes with a magnifier which can adjust for the 3 initial lenses, but wider lenses will need a wider viewfinder, no? or goggles?


The framelines just need to be adjusted which each Fuji lens will communicate.... there is room in the VF it appears for a 21mm (being a .37 VF). Perhaps they will build M adapters which communicate this as well.

http://fujifilm-x.com/x-pro1/en/story/chapter4/page_02.html

[digitalintrigue]

Don't forget the cost of UV/IR for M8.

[tbarker13]

Just pre-ordered a camera and all three lenses.
As they say in Texas Hold-em, I'm all in.

[Leigh Youdale]

It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)

A brilliant analysis. Why did it take me so many more words!

[Pete B]

Just do some research, there are just too many stories about poor treatment from expansys for me to go anywhere near them.


Like this?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1020&thread=40296743

Pete

[Leigh Youdale]

You will be glad to see that a 35 efov lens for the XP1 has already been announced.

In fact, there is now 21-28-35-50.

Since everybody has had their turn, it's mine now: where's the dang 24/25 prime? Sheesh, the one effective focal length that is really hard to come by in third party lenses (there ain't many 16s out there)! Hard luck for a 24-50 type like me. So far the only option is to go for one of the zooms...:(

But I'll still get it, if I can afford it, and I'll live.

Now YOU'RE getting picky too!
I had the 21, 25, 28, 35 etc range of CV lenses for my R4A but eventually concluded that there wasn't enough difference in FOV to be carrying both the 25 and 28 so I kept the 21 and the 28 and sold the 25. Rarely miss it now.

[astrosecret]

Yeah, even with a used M8, your cost of entry is likely to be higher, once you factor in the cost of lenses. Unless the used M8 market has fallen faster than I realize.

well since i already have leica glass... i wouldn't have to buy an adapter and would have a much more accurate focusing mechanism. i simply meant I could spend equally as much on an m8 body after taxes, and wouldn't have to buy an m adapter. not that i could afford a used m8 either :) but its all comes out to be about the same, what with used m8s going for 1800-2000 now.

[jsrockit]

Just pre-ordered a camera and all three lenses.
As they say in Texas Hold-em, I'm all in.

Nice, may I ask where? I'm on a list for the body and the 18/35mm lenses.

[jsrockit]

Like this?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1020&thread=40296743

Pete

So they announced the wrong price... that's no big deal. Also, they did not cancel any orders... they simply don't know the price...just like everyone else.

[tbarker13]

well since i already have leica glass... i wouldn't have to buy an adapter and would have a much more accurate focusing mechanism. i simply meant I could spend equally as much on an m8 body after taxes, and wouldn't have to buy an m adapter. not that i could afford a used m8 either :) but its all comes out to be about the same, what with used m8s going for 1800-2000 now.

Yeah, I see where you are coming from.
The potential downside is that the M8 is nearly 5 years old. Will have no warranty. And it enjoys only limited support from Leica at this point (firmware updates). Of course, if it breaks they'll fix it (though not cheaply.)
If we were talking film cameras, I wouldn't care. But with digital cameras, I'm considerably more nervous about spending big on older cameras out of warranty.
And this does come from someone who has owned 2 M8s and an M8.2 over the five years.

[uhoh7]

Having had an M8 (back in April 2008) and having experienced the line of dead pixels (brand new M8 too) - that issue combined with the whole UV/IR issue was the thing that stopped me - time and time again - from buying an M9.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Cheers,
Dave

So now that the M9 seems to have the kinks largely gone, and is producing incredible images with no crop.......

not to mention being dragged from afghanistan to detroit....

you have pre-ordered an utterly unknown commodity. ;)


not to say you shouldn't, but you imply an M9 is within reach for you. Which somewhat removes a major factor in considering the Xpro-1.

If someone approached me on a solar powered desert island with an M9 in one hand and this or any other crop camera in the other....I know which I'd take :)

[celluloidprop]

I'd take whichever one can most easily be made into a boat.

[Turtle]

The M9 has suffered a number of faults which could be very expensive to owners once out of warranty and it costs 3 x the price of the X-Pro 1 to start with. In fact, if you develop a sensor fault that requires replacement (post warranty), you could probably buy an X-Pro 1 for considerably less than the repair cost... and a new shutter would probably be about the same as a new X-Pro 1. Then we have the dreaded lines from dead pixels that Leica has to map out etc. Some even still have red edge issues with leica's own lenses...

Some X100s had a serious shutter fault but at least they were generally replaced with a extremely quick turnaround which is a far cry from the Leica experience for many. Personally, I would have more faith in the likely reliability/repair outcomes with an unknown X-pro than the well known M9. The prospect of a broken M9 out of warranty is positively stomach churning.

I can afford to buy a M9, but I just don't want to have to face potentially ridiculous costs 5 years down the road. For me it would be a tool and not a luxury item and no few other photographic tools, even at the same retail price, have the potential to deliver such enormous repair bills.

... and quite a few people who have dragged the M9 from Afghanistan to detroit have grumbled about terrible battery life, tedious sensor cleaning and other grumbles that have soured the experience.

Sure, the X-pro 1 has yet to prove itself, but it looks to have quite a few qualities over the M9 at any price. Whether they matter will likely come down to personal preference.


So now that the M9 seems to have the kinks largely gone, and is producing incredible images with no crop.......

not to mention being dragged from afghanistan to detroit....

...if you can afford a M9, you can afford an entire X-pro 1 system and get some change, or have some up your sleeve for future expenses.

you have pre-ordered an utterly unknown commodity. ;)


not to say you shouldn't, but you imply an M9 is within reach for you. Which somewhat removes a major factor in considering the Xpro-1.

If someone approached me on a solar powered desert island with an M9 in one hand and this or any other crop camera in the other....I know which I'd take :)

[digitalintrigue]

Let's see...upgrade M9 to M9P - $1995 (new top and bottom and sapphire LCD glass)

Xpro1 Body - ~$1700

hmmm...

[intheviewfinder]

Take a look at this PopPhoto video from CES (http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/01/video-hands-fujifilm-x-pro1)

Casey Baker Fujifilm's X-Pro1 marketing director answers some interesting questions.

Looks like the zooms will be communicate their focal length and aperture only by momentarily engaging the EVF.

She calls the AF smokin' fast.

No real pricing answer though she does say there will be bundles (1 body & 1 lens - body & all 3 lenses).

[f6andBthere]

A couple of things have become obvious to me reading through this thread:

If Fuji is talking about offering adapters for non Fujinon lenses then the manual focus function in this camera is going to be a world away from the pathetic system in the X100!

Canon and Nikon can no longer sit on their hands protecting their DSLR market ... they have to come up with something similar soon or Fuji will make them look foolish and will take a lead over them that could be hard to pull back!

[BMacW]

Take a look at this PopPhoto video from CES (http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/01/video-hands-fujifilm-x-pro1)

Casey Baker Fujifilm's X-Pro1 marketing director answers some interesting questions.

Looks like the zooms will be communicate their focal length and aperture only by momentarily engaging the EVF.

She calls the AF smokin' fast.

No real pricing answer though she does say there will be bundles (1 body & 1 lens - body & all 3 lenses).

Listening to her, it seems they have some mighty specific plan for the M adapter.

Because the lens can go so deep into the body, would it be possible that the adapter will have the electrical contact built-in to the X mount AND it will read in mechanically the focus distance and the frame line (focal lens)?

[Pete B]

So they announced the wrong price... that's no big deal. Also, they did not cancel any orders... they simply don't know the price...just like everyone else.

My company would honor the price I'd quoted.
Pete

[sojournerphoto]

Take a look at this PopPhoto video from CES (http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/01/video-hands-fujifilm-x-pro1)

Casey Baker Fujifilm's X-Pro1 marketing director answers some interesting questions.

Looks like the zooms will be communicate their focal length and aperture only by momentarily engaging the EVF.

She calls the AF smokin' fast.

No real pricing answer though she does say there will be bundles (1 body & 1 lens - body & all 3 lenses).


It looks genuinely interesting - the size looks very close to M9 and rf territory, which may be a slight put off for me, but I see it as an slr alternative at this point. My 1959 135 elmar becomes a 200 f4 lens, which is as long as I ever use anyway for terrestial photography. I wonder if it will focus on my telescope?

[Trius]

If someone approached me on a solar powered desert island with an M9 in one hand and this or any other crop camera in the other....I know which I'd take :)

Without trying either?

[f6andBthere]

I think the classifieds are going to be very busy over the next month or so ... I'm expecting some tasty bargains as people build their banks for this latest offering from Fuji. :D

[jsrockit]

Let's see...upgrade M9 to M9P - $1995 (new top and bottom and sapphire LCD glass)

Xpro1 Body - ~$1700

hmmm...

Haha, even as a M9 owner I have to say that is ridiculous. :eek: Puts the Fuji into perspective completely.

[anselwannab]

I've watched all the videos of this camera and there are a few with the lens off, I haven't actually seen the shutter in any of them...

I though that was odd too. The camera has a normal shutter correct? Why open it to change lenses?


With Fuji putting this much money into developing a whole line of lenses, I don't see them switching to a FF body anytime soon. Not really an issue since the lenses they are coming out with are short and fast enough. I really don't think that they could effectively cover a FF sensor, but I guess that will take someone rigging one up on an optical stand and testing it out.

What is so frickin' magical about 35FF anyway? It is *******ized (born of illegitimate means) 70mm film ripped in half that was pirated from movie cameras, not some magical dimensions that came down from the mountian on the third tablet with the 11-15th commandments.

Sure, I prefer bigger sensors, but my 5DII is almost frightening in the amount of detail it can record.

Let Leica re-live the old days of 35mm film- which frankly was a big break from the larger films commonly used at the time. Let a new Leica set the standard for the optimum in imae quality, compactness and usability. Maybe the Fuji isn't it, but sure seems closer than the M9.

[f6andBthere]

I'd take whichever one can most easily be made into a boat.


Well ... getting an M9 has always been 'taking a bit of a punt' in my books ... so that narrows the choice somewhat! :D

[noimmunity]

Now YOU'RE getting picky too!
I had the 21, 25, 28, 35 etc range of CV lenses for my R4A but eventually concluded that there wasn't enough difference in FOV to be carrying both the 25 and 28 so I kept the 21 and the 28 and sold the 25. Rarely miss it now.

The same reasoning would work, of course, for those who wish to replace both the 21 and the 28 with a single 24/25. :D

24 - 50 is working really well for me these days, so I'd love to be able to keep that in the new Fuji X mount. Undoubtedly, if the project is commercially viable, they will eventually release one.

[Leigh Youdale]

The same reasoning would work, of course, for those who wish to replace both the 21 and the 28 with a single 24/25. :D

24 - 50 is working really well for me these days, so I'd love to be able to keep that in the new Fuji X mount. Undoubtedly, if the project is commercially viable, they will eventually release one.

I agree the 24/5 is a great lens to have and I was a bit reluctant to sell mine but I find when travelling, especially for narrow lanes or tight interiors in Europe that the 25 sometimes just didn't make it, whereas I could shoot the 21 and just do a tiny crop when printing if necessary. And as noted before, I tend to use the 35/1.4 as my standard lens rather than the 50/2.5 I have.

[noimmunity]

And as noted before, I tend to use the 35/1.4 as my standard lens rather than the 50/2.5 I have.

Funny coincidence, 'cause I had just written and eliminated a reference to an X mount 35 efov with a wide aperture of f/1.4 ... With a lens like that, I could be really happy with a kit of 21-35-75, too.

But for now, the 35 efov in the works is an f/2. And the really fast normal for the system, at least for the moment, is a 50 efov.

It's all personal preference, to be sure. But it looks to me like the system is biased towards using the 50 as a normal.

[dcsang]

So now that the M9 seems to have the kinks largely gone, and is producing incredible images with no crop.......

not to mention being dragged from afghanistan to detroit....

you have pre-ordered an utterly unknown commodity. ;)


not to say you shouldn't, but you imply an M9 is within reach for you. Which somewhat removes a major factor in considering the Xpro-1.

If someone approached me on a solar powered desert island with an M9 in one hand and this or any other crop camera in the other....I know which I'd take :)

I've tried the M9 - it is not "within reach" for me - I don't have the money and I vacillated on how I could, potentially, make it work - it involved selling off a lot of my current SLR equipment which has been 1) very dependable and 2) actually does earn me enough money in a year to at least cover an X-Pro1 - and as someone who's seen the files from the M9, I wasn't as impressed with the files (especially when I consider the sensor) - plus I have experience of the M8 which leaves me feeling like I'm going to have similar or worse issues with the M9 (especially if you read some of the problem threads).

Now, is this an unknown commodity? yes.
Have i pre-ordered one? not really - I haven't placed any money, I've simply put my name on a list and once the purchasing manager is back from Las Vegas, I will discuss it with him - hence my statement "pre-pre-order".
Would I be willing to try this based on what I've seen out of the x100 - sure - I have an x10 and I like the files at 3200ISO so I can't imagine that an APS-C size sensor from in a fuji camera can currently be any worse - can't say the same for the M9 at the same ISO mind you.

Cheers,
Dave

[jarski]

just in case someone didnt check Dpreview already, there's nice side-by-side of Fuji and M9, gives good idea of this new thing. link (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilmxpro1/images/sbsm9p.jpg).

It's not rocket science to work out who Fujifilm are really gunning for - the X-Pro1's similarity to the Leica M9 demonstrates the company's refound confidence, having already placed the X100 squarely up against the Leica X1. It's pretty clear that Fujifilm very much sees the X-Pro1, with its hybrid viewfinder and infinitely-variable framelines, as the modern autofocus reincarnation of the classic rangefinder.

[f6andBthere]

just in case someone didnt check Dpreview already, there's nice side-by-side of Fuji and M9, gives good idea of this new thing. link (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilmxpro1/images/sbsm9p.jpg).

It's not rocket science to work out who Fujifilm are really gunning for - the X-Pro1's similarity to the Leica M9 demonstrates the company's refound confidence, having already placed the X100 squarely up against the Leica X1. It's pretty clear that Fujifilm very much sees the X-Pro1, with its hybrid viewfinder and infinitely-variable framelines, as the modern autofocus reincarnation of the classic rangefinder.



Offering a limited edition black version of the X100 at a premium price is very 'Leica' in it's interpretation IMO.

I don't think Solms will be worrying too much but they'll definitely be paying attention! :D

[TobiasL]

I look forward seeing some reviews on this camera but manual focusing appears to be the same as in X100 (fly-by-wire) which could be a problem. I couldn't stand manual focusing on X100. However, AF seems to be relative fast in the videos I've seen. They say it's faster than X100 at least.

Also, the M-mount adapter is suppose to be released in 2012. Check this video out where Fujifilm rep talks about some of these things: http://vimeo.com/34890330

[uhoh7]

I'd take whichever one can most easily be made into a boat.

Well ... getting an M9 has always been 'taking a bit of a punt' in my books ... so that narrows the choice somewhat! :D

LOL LOL LOL :)

spawning witty retorts as a community service, thank you, thank you.

imagine that Jack Benny sigh......;)

all things considered, the xpro-1 is a bold move and it will be fun to see the resuts. Bravo to Fuji!

[nighstar]

....here i am calling myself sitting on my hands waiting for Olympus' big announcement but at the same time i've already signed up for stock notifications for the X-Pro 1 and am already debating which lens i should get...! UGH! :bang:

but seriously..... 18mm/27mm which is my normal lens or 60mm/90mm which is my must-have macro? it's impossible to choose!

.....maybe i will just have to stick with my GRD4 for wide angle shots..... http://emoticons4u.com/mad/081.gif [/me thinking aloud]

[noimmunity]

....here i am calling myself sitting on my hands waiting for Olympus' big announcement but at the same time i've already signed up for stock notifications for the X-Pro 1 and am already debating which lens i should get...! UGH! :bang:

but seriously..... 18mm/27mm which is my normal lens or 60mm/90mm which is my must-have macro? it's impossible to choose!

.....maybe i will just have to stick with my GRD4 for wide angle shots..... http://emoticons4u.com/mad/081.gif [/me thinking aloud]

Looking at your photos, I don't see how you could do without either the 28 and the 90 (efov). I think after those two, you could probably do best with the 40/2.8 pancake. Now, if budget is a concern, I'd say you start with the 28, as it seems to be your main mileage lens. After that, maybe one of the zooms will work for you.

But y'know, there's no rush on this.

[jarski]

....here i am calling myself sitting on my hands waiting for Olympus' big announcement but at the same time i've already signed up for stock notifications for the X-Pro 1 and am already debating which lens i should get...! UGH! :bang:


Olympus execs seem busy with other things than worrying about their camera business ;)

[nighstar]

Looking at your photos, I don't see how you could do without either the 28 and the 90 (efov). I think after those two, you could probably do best with the 40/2.8 pancake. Now, if budget is a concern, I'd say you start with the 28, as it seems to be your main mileage lens. After that, maybe one of the zooms will work for you.

But y'know, there's no rush on this.

thanks. :) yeah, i could really use both but i will be straining to afford the body + 1 lens. :( you might be right, maybe i should go for the 18/27mm and hold out for a zoom (or for a macro)... you're right, there really is no rush. i'll just have to have patience for the 2nd lens. :o

Olympus execs seem busy with other things than worrying about their camera business ;)

Olympus is indeed busy, but they still need to make money. ;) it's official, Olympus will be announcing a new camera line on Feb. 8th prior to attending CP+ in Japan. supposedly a digital OM will be unveiled. :D

[zvos1]

All this talk about new Fuji makes me wanna
buy another film M body...something must be wrong with me :-)

[jsrockit]

Listening to her, it seems they have some mighty specific plan for the M adapter.

Because the lens can go so deep into the body, would it be possible that the adapter will have the electrical contact built-in to the X mount AND it will read in mechanically the focus distance and the frame line (focal lens)?

I'm thinking that its adapter will at least tell which framelines to bring up in the OVF. I'm not sure if that is by dialing in your focal length on the adapter or by offering different adapters for different focal lengths. However, after readin what I just wrote, it may just be wishful thinking.

[Paul T.]

However, after readin what I just wrote, it may just be wishful thinking.
I agree! THat would make the adapter more complex and more expensive, it would be far simpler just to dial in the lens focal length, then hopefully one can keep that setting as a favourite.

[jsrockit]

I agree! THat would make the adapter more complex and more expensive, it would be far simpler just to dial in the lens focal length, then hopefully one can keep that setting as a favourite.

Ah yes... good thing I don't design cameras. :o

[BMacW]

I'm thinking that its adapter will at least tell which framelines to bring up in the OVF. I'm not sure if that is by dialing in your focal length on the adapter or by offering different adapters for different focal lengths. However, after readin what I just wrote, it may just be wishful thinking.

Yeah, Ricoh had a real chance to design something clever for the M mount lenses (reading focal lens, and mechanical/electrical hybrid focusing coupling) for their M module....
But in the end it looks like they didn't spend a second trying to innovate in that regard.

I dont mind paying big bucks for a smart adapter, but yeah, it's unlikely that's what fuji would do.

[regularchickens]

Somebody took a video of it in burst mode with the lens off. You can see and hear the shutter at work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5peNmalRyMY

[astrosecret]

why isn't the shutter there when they remove the lens????so the shutter comes down, releases, comes down, and releases again for every photo?

[digitalintrigue]

The camera has to have the shutter open to have an image in the viewfinder. By default it is open.

[astrosecret]

sorry, i was referring to the shutter behavior in the video prior to my post. i am asking why they don't have the shutter close when the lens is off in the video. there should be something to protect the sensor while you are changing lenses.

[PrecisionCamera]

I'm thinking that its adapter will at least tell which framelines to bring up in the OVF. I'm not sure if that is by dialing in your focal length on the adapter or by offering different adapters for different focal lengths. However, after readin what I just wrote, it may just be wishful thinking.

In one of the Fujiguys videos, they directly address the M-mount questions. There are programmable functions in the menu system to indicate favorite focal lengths and save the framelines. Does not look like it will be on a "detected" basis, but rather the user will have to manually switch the framelines in the menu system for each lens change. Then again, this camera is not specifically designed for other system lenses, it's just nice that they are including us. It will be interesting to see how they deal with their longer focal lengths in later lens releases.

[digitalintrigue]

sorry, i was referring to the shutter behavior in the video prior to my post. i am asking why they don't have the shutter close when the lens is off in the video. there should be something to protect the sensor while you are changing lenses.

I don't know of any mirrorless that does this, but it's a good idea.

[PrecisionCamera]

sorry, i was referring to the shutter behavior in the video prior to my post. i am asking why they don't have the shutter close when the lens is off in the video. there should be something to protect the sensor while you are changing lenses.

Looks like digitalintrigue is right. The EVF is enabled in that video, so the shutter has to be open. Had they had the OVF enabled, you should not have been seeing the shutter open prior to the shutter being released. And this might be a pre-production issue just for demonstration purposes. I wonder if we'll see that fix in the final production models.

[digitalintrigue]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the shutter closes when the OVF is selected, at least on the x100. I haven't seen anything about the XPro-1 about this, so I would doubt it works this way, either.

[PrecisionCamera]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the shutter closes when the OVF is selected, at least on the x100. I haven't seen anything about the XPro-1 about this, so I would doubt it works this way, either.

I may be mistaken too, none of us will really know until we get to physically handle a production model.

[BMacW]

Looks like digitalintrigue is right. The EVF is enabled in that video, so the shutter has to be open. Had they had the OVF enabled, you should not have been seeing the shutter open prior to the shutter being released. And this might be a pre-production issue just for demonstration purposes. I wonder if we'll see that fix in the final production models.

It's always open regardless of the VF mode. Need it for AF and metering

[BMacW]

sorry, i was referring to the shutter behavior in the video prior to my post. i am asking why they don't have the shutter close when the lens is off in the video. there should be something to protect the sensor while you are changing lenses.

Because there is no way for the camera to 'Know' if there is a manual lens attached to it. (the electrical contact does not function there). So it should remain open for things like metering, focus aid, etc.

It would be a nice idea though, to have built in a small switch on the lens release button and shut the shutter to protect the sensor when nothing is mounted.

[jsrockit]

In one of the Fujiguys videos, they directly address the M-mount questions. There are programmable functions in the menu system to indicate favorite focal lengths and save the framelines. Does not look like it will be on a "detected" basis, but rather the user will have to manually switch the framelines in the menu system for each lens change. Then again, this camera is not specifically designed for other system lenses, it's just nice that they are including us. It will be interesting to see how they deal with their longer focal lengths in later lens releases.

That sounds fine to me... thanks.

[astrosecret]

I don't know of any mirrorless that does this, but it's a good idea.

sorry then for my ignorance :/ i only have a dslr and many film cameras to base this observation off of :)

[PrecisionCamera]

It's always open regardless of the VF mode. Need it for AF and metering

Forgot that the AF and metering was not the small dot above lens, that was just an early report. Oh if only they were aligning it even closer to a real rangefinder...

[digitalintrigue]

Yes, even in OVF mode it's using contrast AF so the sensor must be able to 'see.'

It would be kinda cool to have a way to close the shutter during lens swaps.

[PrecisionCamera]

Yes, even in OVF mode it's using contrast AF so the sensor must be able to 'see.'

It would be kinda cool to have a way to close the shutter during lens swaps.

It definitely would, for peace of mind and simple common sense.

As a note for everyone, we are now accepting $100 Priority Deposits for the X-Pro 1, as well as a waitlist option for those who do not want to put money down yet. You can check out the pre-order page here (http://www.precision-camera.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=xpro&product_id=42902).

[Focal Plane Circus]

New Imaging Resource interview with Fuji Digital Imaging exec. Kayce Baker, published today:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/12/imaging-resource-interview-kayce-baker-fujifilm

Well worth reading carefully.

[noimmunity]

New Imaging Resource interview with Fuji Digital Imaging exec. Kayce Baker, published today:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/12/imaging-resource-interview-kayce-baker-fujifilm

Well worth reading carefully.

Very interesting.

So, there will be in the future a new body with phase detection AF.

Different lenses have different registration distances. Presumably the first generation M adapters won't be able to take advantage of this feature, but perhaps in the future...

Fuji really listened to X100 user feedback (cf. the discussion of flare).

Fuji has a very interesting and very clear definition of its intended target for the X-Pro system.

" Look, are we Leica? It's not going to cost you $15,000 to walk out the door with one of these things, but at the same time we have a premium model here that's going to give you premium results."

[useless generation]

An electronic M adaptor that has a rangefinder focus cam/arm and that projects a small digital RF patch in the EVF for focusing? Haha would
Be sweet if it worked

[f6andBthere]

(tongue in cheek post)

I'm amazed at how locked into the concept of manual RF focusing people are around here! It doesn't matter what new system is being touted by any manufacturer ... it can always be improved by having manual RF focusing!

Buy an M9 or get over it!

:D

[finguanzo]

Well, we are on a Rangefinder forum................ :rolleyes:
Im sure the autofocus forum cant stand M9's.. :D

[BMacW]

(tongue in cheek post)

I'm amazed at how locked into the concept of manual RF focusing people are around here! It doesn't matter what new system is being touted by any manufacturer ... it can always be improved by having manual RF focusing!

Buy an M9 or get over it!

:D

Autofocus is the best thing ever! the camera always knows exactly where I want to focus in this complex 3D world from a 2D image feed it's getting.

Ahhhh the wonder of technology. X-Pro2 will have auto shutter with iDM (intelligent decisive moment)
Can't wait!!!

[drewbarb]

Decisive moment recognition? I love it! Imagine the applications; imagine a shutter not opening for someone because the camera decides it's not a Decisive Moment! This is hilarious.

[f16sunshine]

The XP1 seems really sweet. Time will tell how the real world responds to it's true performance. One thing I would say for sure... Kayce Baker is doing one hell of a nice job with the PR work. The big peeps at Fuji should be stoked!

[f6andBthere]

Decisive moment recognition? I love it! Imagine the applications; imagine a shutter not opening for someone because the camera decides it's not a Decisive Moment! This is hilarious.


One should never joke about these things ... I can now imagine a digital sensor that won't allow the shutter to operate unless composition, exposure and focus are all correct and in line with the DMR algorithms in the camera's software!

M10 maybe? :D

[noimmunity]

the autofocus forum

FINALLY!!! RFF has finally identified 'the enemy'. :angel:

(Hey, Mods, here's a fun new way to consolidate all those mushrooming new pesky forum divisions. Just combine them all under a new rubric: AFF)

[robert blu]

New Imaging Resource interview with Fuji Digital Imaging exec. Kayce Baker, published today:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/12/imaging-resource-interview-kayce-baker-fujifilm

Well worth reading carefully.

Thanks for the link. It s very interesting and seems me at Fuji they are going to put themselves among the "big" with serious options in an affordable price range.
robert

[RFluhver]

Oh my Lord! Boys, have a gander at this.

http://cdn.mos.techradar.com//Review%20images/PhotoRadar/Fuji/FujiX_Pro1/fujifilm-x-pro-1-728-75.jpg

It's a mean looking thing that should just about make anybody drool!

[jsrockit]

Just wish that 53mm equiv wasn't so large. I would have settled for f/2 to have a smaller 50. You can't have everything I guess. Well, at least a 42mm equiv pancake is coming. :)

[39per1]

New Imaging Resource interview with Fuji Digital Imaging exec. Kayce Baker, published today:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/12/imaging-resource-interview-kayce-baker-fujifilm

Well worth reading carefully.

....they try to compare it with the Canon G1-X....and that's not a bad idea....not too far in market target.....

[benlees]

Oh my Lord! Boys, have a gander at this.

http://cdn.mos.techradar.com//Review%20images/PhotoRadar/Fuji/FujiX_Pro1/fujifilm-x-pro-1-728-75.jpg

It's a mean looking thing that should just about make anybody drool!

Yeah, it looks pretty good. A lot of blank space next to the viewfinder. At least there won't be any threads about black tape!

[cmedin]

Not a huge fan of the hood, but the camera is gorgeous.

[ChrisC]

.....looks pretty good......

Marketing bull**** aside; that's a nice bit of product photography which succeeds in pressing the right buttons. Sexy lenshood too!

........... Chris

[jippiejee]

I just wished more of the AF performance had been shown so far. And about focusing Leica lenses with their first-party m-mount adapter. I had hoped for a true focus peaking function, but so far I haven't seen that mentioned in the frist hands-on reviews. Anyone knows anything about that?

[jpfisher]

The M-mount adapter is still in development, so nobody has been able to test it. I didn't see any way to enable focus peaking during my hands-on time with the camera at CES (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2398807,00.asp), but I was fighting the crowd to get some time with the camera.

Looking forward to spending more time with a review unit.

[digitalintrigue]

Nice article, Jim. Thanks for the link...

[Jamie Pillers]

That blank space is for all the folks that'll be selling their Leica M8's and 9's, but can't do without the red dot. :-)

[Turtle]

yes, the AF/MF is the big one for me. Get this right and they will have a corker on their hands (lets face it, X100 IQ is already amazing). Bad AF and this thing will lose quit a bit of shine in the absence of traditional MF capabilty.

[Tim Gray]

Even though I have no plans to buy this camera, still the more I think about it, the more I see a pretty package but not a lot of substance.


The more I hear about it, the more I think it might be my first expensive digital camera:

- relatively compact
- good complement of lenses for me: equivalents to 28/2, 50/1.4, and a semi-confirmed 21/1.4?
- modern sensor - Really, they are all pretty good at this point in time, so it's not something I really worry about
- can adapt my longer M lenses to it, if I want
- cheaper than an M9 :)

As long as the AF isn't really crappy and slow, it's pretty much what I'm looking for.

[benlees]

I've used a Contax G2, Fuji Ga645, and Ga645W all of 'em are an AF rf 'style' camera and they all worked fine. Tell us why this new Fuji can't be used for serious work (whatever that means!).

[benlees]

That blank space is for all the folks that'll be selling their Leica M8's and 9's, but can't do without the red dot. :-)


lol I was going to let sleeping dogs lie, but they may be hamstrung over red or black!

[digitalintrigue]

AF with OVF is never going to work, and the EVF on this one is not good enough, this rules out serious work: PJ, weddings sports etc.

Yes, this was proven with the x100; the OVF is a failure, and no wedding photog in their right mind would shoot with an x100. Ditto for the X-Pro1.

I guess that's why the x100 sold so poorly.

[jsrockit]

Sony Nex-7 for serious photographers and those who have third-party lenses, X-Pro1 for not so demanding photographers who like good things in life.


Huh? care to explain this?

[digitalintrigue]

I have a Sony NEX. I don't care about the good things. :)

[ferider]

Hey, Robert, Jsr, and others interested in this beast:

I was wondering: with the "X-Trans" sensor, do you think we can expect even higher B+W resolution when compared to color ?

Roland.

[noimmunity]

Every time a new camera comes out, as long as it isn't a Big Cannon or a Mammoth Spike-on, somebody always comes along and says it's not for serious photographers. They did it with the M8. They did it with the m 4/3, they did it with the M9, they did it with the X100, and now they're doin' it for the X-Pro1.

Not bad, though, it took us nearly 30 pages to get there this time. I see evidence of some progress!

[DtheG]

sorry, i was referring to the shutter behavior in the video prior to my post. i am asking why they don't have the shutter close when the lens is off in the video. there should be something to protect the sensor while you are changing lenses.

See
http://fujifilm-x.com/x-pro1/en/story/chapter3/page_02.html

・Every measure has been taken in measures to prevent intrusion of dirt and dust into the body.
The first basic concept of the XF System is to have a “structure which seals the area surrounding the sensor” to ensure dirt and dust does not contact the sensor. By inserting three glass pieces between the surfaces of the mount and sensor, this structure doubly and triply ensures the prevention of dirt and dust intrusion.

[Teuthida]

I do " have somthing I can carry around on my own time." Its called an iPhone.

[Teuthida]

Oh my Lord! Boys, have a gander at this.

http://cdn.mos.techradar.com//Review%20images/PhotoRadar/Fuji/FujiX_Pro1/fujifilm-x-pro-1-728-75.jpg

It's a mean looking thing that should just about make anybody drool!

Too big and boxy, just like the M5. Cmon, if we're going to trot out such canards, lets at least be consistent.

[jsrockit]

Hey, Robert, Jsr, and others interested in this beast:

I was wondering: with the "X-Trans" sensor, do you think we can expect even higher B+W resolution when compared to color ?

Roland.

I'm sorry, I just don't know.

[astrosecret]

See
http://fujifilm-x.com/x-pro1/en/story/chapter3/page_02.html

・Every measure has been taken in measures to prevent intrusion of dirt and dust into the body.
The first basic concept of the XF System is to have a “structure which seals the area surrounding the sensor” to ensure dirt and dust does not contact the sensor. By inserting three glass pieces between the surfaces of the mount and sensor, this structure doubly and triply ensures the prevention of dirt and dust intrusion.

interesting. I assume any kind dust on the glass inserts would be inconsequential? my eyes may be mistaking me but on fujis website, full res pics looked like the sensor was dirty.

[PrecisionCamera]

Hey, Robert, Jsr, and others interested in this beast:

I was wondering: with the "X-Trans" sensor, do you think we can expect even higher B+W resolution when compared to color ?

Roland.

Obviously we will not know until we get a test, but I don't think so. In digital b&w it is just a achromatic reinterpretation of the color information, so the resolution perks of the X-Trans sensor will translate into better resolution for b&w just like it does for color, but not a jump over the color res. As for more latitude or depth, that is yet to be determined.

[DtheG]

interesting. I assume any kind dust on the glass inserts would be inconsequential? my eyes may be mistaking me but on fujis website, full res pics looked like the sensor was dirty.

Yes, I noticed that too. Very poor product photography on several of those brochure pics, but that is not a fault of the camera.

When I bought my X100 in May, I thought £1000 was a little steep but though the price is now <£800 I feel I have had at least £200 of valued photography in 2011. Now I am wondering how to justify another new camera this year.
My one disappointment with the X100 is the manual focus: impossible to use in low light. There is no mention of manual focus at all for this new model, so I will wait and see.

[PrecisionCamera]

Yes, I noticed that too. Very poor product photography on several of those brochure pics, but that is not a fault of the camera.

When I bought my X100 in May, I thought £1000 was a little steep but though the price is now <£800 I feel I have had at least £200 of valued photography in 2011. Now I am wondering how to justify another new camera this year.
My one disappointment with the X100 is the manual focus: impossible to use in low light. There is no mention of manual focus at all for this new model, so I will wait and see.

It is a "focus by wire" manual focus system not mechanical, so the response of those lenses in the manual focus area should be a little oddball. Hopefully they paid attention to the cries of the X100 owners in terms of the manual focus issues.

[DtheG]

I am happy enough with 'fly by wire', though the smoothness of the focus ring does sit a little oddly with the stepping movement of the actual focus.
What I would like is less movement required and consistency: it is barely tolerable in good light, in low light it can be impossible to change focus manually when conditions prevent autofocus from locking on the desired target.

[celluloidprop]

Too big and boxy, just like the M5. Cmon, if we're going to trot out such canards, lets at least be consistent.

Some of us weren't even alive when the M5 was designed, much less criticizing its design.

[The Meaness]

Too big and boxy, just like the M5. Cmon, if we're going to trot out such canards, lets at least be consistent.

Looks more like a CL to me.

[celluloidprop]

Sony Nex-7 for serious photographers and those who have third-party lenses, X-Pro1 for not so demanding photographers who like good things in life.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Serious photographers who only need one 'serious' AF lens?

I like the idea of the NEX-7, and I hope to rent one for a lark one day - but Sony's lens lineup leaves an awful lot to be desired. And though I've heard good reports regarding ergonomics, I'd have to have one in hand with the big Zeiss 24 to be sold. I know I found the NEX-5 and kit zoom to be a very awkward combo.

[Thardy]

Looks nice, but I'm a little ambivalent on the sloping top plate under the shutter speed knob.

[Paddy C]

It's a sweet looking design. As someone else mentioned it reminds me of the XPan for some reason.

At 29 pages, I'm officially unable to keep up with this thread.

Noticed on Mirrorless Rumors today that the Fuji folks said AF speed would not match up with the best. Via Gizmodo:

“The camera’s one drawback, and Fuji has told us that this will be the case on the production models, is that the autofocus isn’t going to be as snappy as it is on other cameras. Fuji says thats because that’s not what this camera is about.”

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

It's a sweet looking design. As someone else mentioned it reminds me of the XPan for some reason.

At 29 pages, I'm officially unable to keep up with this thread.

Noticed on Mirrorless Rumors today that the Fuji folks said AF speed would not match up with the best. Via Gizmodo:

Then what IS it about? Poor AF, just as I said it would have. Just as claact said. Poor performing overpriced jewelry for those with money and little else.

[digitalintrigue]

I read that as "it's not going to be as fast as a phase detect DSLR."

Whether it is 'poor' remains to be seen. ;)

[dbarnes]

@Thardy re the X1's sloping top plate: In one of the CES video interviews with the X1's product manager, she says that the sloped top plate helps you relax your index finger, which encourages you to relax your whole hand, which encourages you to keep your right elbow tucked in to make a good, solid shooting platform.

[tbarker13]

Poor performing overpriced jewelry for those with money and little else.

I don't know. That seems a little harsh for a camera that we've not actually seen in the hands of pros.
I hear people say the X100 isn't suitable for professional use. Yet, one of the staff photojournalists at my paper regularly publishes photos with his. Does it replace his DLSR gear? Of course not. Is it perfect? Of course not. Yet it's good enough that he uses it professionally.

[rbelyell]

Too big and boxy, just like the M5. Cmon, if we're going to trot out such canards, lets at least be consistent.

doesnt look anything like a french duck to me. rather, looks like a damn fine piece of equipment.

[rbelyell]

Originally Posted by claacct
Sony Nex-7 for serious photographers and those who have third-party lenses, X-Pro1 for not so demanding photographers who like good things in life.

I think that pretty much sums it up.


really? i come out a little differently on that equation:
small camera+big lenses=dumb market analysis

i kinda think that sums it up even better!

[nighstar]

Noticed on Mirrorless Rumors today that the Fuji folks said AF speed would not match up with the best. Via Gizmodo:

sounds like someone somwhere got something wrong as that COMPLETELY contradicts what Kayce Baker, Fujifilm rep, has been saying in almost every video & interview she's been in. she's even referred to the AF as "super fast" and "much faster than the X100".

for example, see this video @4:30
http://youtu.be/51gOJziQs1U

[nighstar]

also, in case others haven't found this yet, i just discovered some user photos taken with the X-Pro1 on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/fuji-x-pro1/

[f6andBthere]

As nice at this camera is it still hasn't adressed the focus issue that seems to cause so much discussion around here.

A D700 or 5Dll will kick it's arse as a serious photographic tool every time in tricky lighting conditions because the AF is lightening fast and very accurate on these DSLRs and with a good screen they are pretty decent for manual focusing with a non AF prime. The penalty is weight and size of course but if you're serious about getting the images and not fighting a flickering EVF linked to a mushy fly by wire manual focusing system you'll still chose the DSLR every time.

A professional's tool should be able to handle all conditions without risk of missing shots when the going gets tough. I don't quite see this new Fuji as 'being there' yet! It's a nice camera and will sell very well to the enthusiastic well heeled amateur but to call it a 'Pro' tool is stretching it a bit for me.

I'd own one ... but certainly not as a replacement for my DSLR. And for the people who think it's a replacement for an M9 because of it's lower price and superior high ISO capability, watch and wait, because the M10 will be a very different camera IMO ... particularly regarding it's high ISO performance.

[sojournerphoto]

I think the Fuji looks really interesting, and strangely makes me thinnk of getting an old xpan. But given that none of us have tried one yet how do we know so much about its performance comapred to other cameras?

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I think the Fuji looks really interesting, and strangely makes me thinnk of getting an old xpan. But given that none of us have tried one yet how do we know so much about its performance comapred to other cameras?

Fuji has admitted it has poor AF compared to D-SLRs. A $2000+ camera should not have inferior autofocus or anything else. Sorry.

[uhoh7]

also, in case others haven't found this yet, i just discovered some user photos taken with the X-Pro1 on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/fuji-x-pro1/

Ouch.

Well, like the nex-7 we know now in the right hands its is capable of some horrific imagery :)

[nighstar]

Ouch.

Well, like the nex-7 we know now in the right hands its is capable of some horrific imagery :)

obviously this camera isn't your cup of tea. please feel free to go comment in the thread of the camera that is. :rolleyes:

[Turtle]

Chris, relax! We do not know enough about this camera to be dismissing it, or claiming it to be the next prophet either. It does still look interesting to me, even if the AF is not blistering, as long as it is 'good'. If the MF is superb then so much the better. As always, we will see, but lets not forget that this camera is miles smaller than a DSLR and so you cannot expect exactly comparable performance. You will be giving something up for the smaller package.

The market will decide what is 'valid' and what is not. My X100 has very average AF, but overall the camera has great 'utility' as far as I am concerned. While two sides dig their positions I will crack on taking pictures :)

[benlees]

Perspective. Has anyone here used the camera? Fuji didn't say poor AF it said not the best. If you want the best AF you can spend $6000 on the new D4.

A Fujifilm camera as jewelery? C'mon, you can get Fujifilm digicams at truck stops. As a brand Fujifilm has a long way to go before it is recognized as some purveyor of luxury trinkets.

[Joe AC]

Fuji has admitted it has poor AF compared to D-SLRs. A $2000+ camera should not have inferior autofocus or anything else. Sorry.

With all due respect, let's not forget that this is NOT a D-SLR. It is a compact, mirrorless, removable lens digital. Probably one of the better ones out there. Lets try and compare apples to apples.

Joe

[Shade]

I would really have to wait on the production camrea rather than a pre production sample. Im sure there are flaws waiting to be corrected and even when released there still will be some flaws as do all cameras.

[Nikon Bob]

I going to wait until actual user reports start to come in before getting too excited about potential AF problems. It uses a different AF system than do DSLRs so there is sure to be some differences. You could always spend $6000 or so on a camera with a very inferior AF system, the M9. That is if you want to look at it that way. This is primarily an AF camera with some capability to be manually focused as a secondary consideration. I would govern my expectations with that in mind. Personally I would be happy with an AF camera with reasonably fast and reliable AF that is much smaller than my D700 and weighs less, with a lens attached, that the D700 weighs on it's lonesome without a lens attached.

Bob

[dfoo]

Fuji has admitted it has poor AF compared to D-SLRs. A $2000+ camera should not have inferior autofocus or anything else. Sorry.

Damn, I guess all my M- Leica cameras are a super rip off considering that they have no AF of any kind :)

[noimmunity]

Lets try and compare apples to apples.


Fuji has sort of adopted a feisty "bring it on" attitude in their marketing PR, so the apples to oranges comparisons are somewhat warranted, as long as people remember the whole equation.

As far as price goes, I think there are many people in North America for whom the reality of the yen's appreciation hasn't really sunk in. When I bought my ZI body in Japan five (or was it six?) years ago, the yen was at 140:1 with the US dollar. The yen has now appreciated to about half that level. The ZI I bought then in Japan was less than US$1000. With today's exchange rate, even if it were priced as before, it would be close to $2000. As it is, the current US price of the ZI is still lower than it ought to be adjusted for currency appreciation, not to mention inflation.

No doubt, if the camera were made in Malaysia instead of Japan, that would lead some pundits to declare it "unreliable" and hence "unprofessional".

Finally, I just think Fuji kind of "gets it" in a way that Cosina Voigtlander does.

Fuji has a proven track record of continually making innovative cameras in multiple formats that all have one characteristic in common: they appeal to people who really love the experience and process of photography. They also, I might add, have maintained a link to rangefinders that few other manufacturers have. Just recently they participated in the design, production and marketing of the world's only medium format rangefinder folder with AE; several years before that, they released another innovative rangefinder, the XPan...

The fact that Fuji doesn't make state of the art $6-7000 flagship bodies only underscores the extent to which Fuji just gets it.

Now, just because Fuji "gets it" doesn't mean that you or I have to get the X-Pro1. But I really appreciate what Fuji is doing.

[digitalintrigue]

Fuji just gets it

******This.

[celluloidprop]

Then what IS it about? Poor AF, just as I said it would have. Just as claact said. Poor performing overpriced jewelry for those with money and little else.

I really don't get the hostility.

[Thardy]

Fuji has admitted it has poor AF compared to D-SLRs. A $2000+ camera should not have inferior autofocus or anything else. Sorry.

I agree. This news is a bit disappointing.

[tbarker13]

A professional's tool should be able to handle all conditions without risk of missing shots when the going gets tough.



I guess you'd eliminate all rangefinders as professional tools. ;)They don't handle live action sports all that well. Or the type of nature photography that requires long lenses. And they're pretty weak at macro photography.
That's quite a few conditions where you'd run the risk of missing shots.

Seriously, before we start dismissing something, we really ought to know more about it. Let's say you have a portrait or landscape photographer. Neither lives or dies by lightning fast auto focus. I doubt they'll care.

The camera may very well be perfect for the types of professionals Fuji is targeting. Or maybe they'll reject it out of hand if it proves incapable.

It does sound like there's a potential weakness (if the AF is sluggish) in the realm of wedding photography - particularly photojournalistic style.

[tbarker13]

I really don't get the hostility.


Have to agree with you on that.

[tbarker13]

And for the people who think it's a replacement for an M9 because of it's lower price and superior high ISO capability, watch and wait, because the M10 will be a very different camera IMO ... particularly regarding it's high ISO performance.

Curious. Are you suggesting the M10 is going to be a lower priced model? Or just that its going to be markedly different?
I'm sort of guessing the M10 will hit the market somewhere around the $9,000 mark - just given Leica's track record of substantially raising the price of its digital rangefinder with each new version.

[Dana B.]

This whole thread is mostly idle speculation. Go out and take some photographs, folks. Then return after the X-Pro's been released.

[Juan Valdenebro]

To me it's been the same for years: where's the fast reliable manual focus I like?

I could even accept -from time to time- all those disgusting things digicams make us do and carry, but AF with crappy manual focus again?

Anyway I hope Fuji (maybe) or someone else will make a real manual focus RF soon... I mean a small one that's not too expensive... It would sell well in the long term because it would mean to really curse the adventure of photography, so new shooters would be coming and coming to grab one... But all companies seem to feel AF is the safest and almost only way...

Cheers,

Juan

[apodeictic]

Too big and boxy, just like the M5. Cmon, if we're going to trot out such canards, lets at least be consistent.

What??? You do know you can see side-by-side photos with an M9 and they're almost identical in size (i.e. meaning SMALLER than an M5).

I'm taking a break from reading this thread. RFF has gone from playful speculation to outright condemnation and vilification based on what? Information we don't even have yet! That or our own goofy feelings because it doesn't live up to some bizarre abstract concept we have of the "perfect" camera.

I think a lot of people need to go to the top right of their screen and hit the "log out" button, pick up whatever camera they have and go take a walk.

I'm excited about the X-Pro1 because it means the digital photography industry is growing and able to explore more of the shooting experience instead of just the technological aspects. The cheap full-frame rangefinder is another step closer to existing, and who couldn't be glad for that?

[Focal Plane Circus]

The M-mount adapter is still in development, so nobody has been able to test it. I didn't see any way to enable focus peaking during my hands-on time with the camera at CES (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2398807,00.asp), but I was fighting the crowd to get some time with the camera.

Looking forward to spending more time with a review unit.

"The viewfinder is located on the top left corner, which can make it a little awkward for left-eyed shooters like myself to handle"

I could have said that myself anytime in the last 50 years! :bang:

[f6andBthere]

Curious. Are you suggesting the M10 is going to be a lower priced model? Or just that its going to be markedly different?
I'm sort of guessing the M10 will hit the market somewhere around the $9,000 mark - just given Leica's track record of substantially raising the price of its digital rangefinder with each new version.


First I'll deal with the autofocus situation you mentioned in your other post. I think a manual focus camera can still be regarded as a professional's tool provided that's what they want ... and you can still be a professional and never need to shoot sports or anything else that requires AF. It depends what area you work in I guess. I personally don't need AF but I do need high ISO capability so I use a D700 which I focus manually, always with primes. What I need is a camera that can be focused every time in poor light and the D700 covers this need albeit with a weight and size penalty.

If Leica can come up with a camera as user friendly and as unobtrusive as the M9 and also give it the ability to produce clean images at 3200 or better it will be one hell of a tool and even at the price you mentioned I would personally have to consider it. It's a lot of money yes ... but if it does the job you want done without fuss and it's going to earn your living for you ... the price is just what you have to pay.

[christian.rudman]

What??? You do know you can see side-by-side photos with an M9 and they're almost identical in size (i.e. meaning SMALLER than an M5).

I'm taking a break from reading this thread. RFF has gone from playful speculation to outright condemnation and vilification based on what? Information we don't even have yet! That or our own goofy feelings because it doesn't live up to some bizarre abstract concept we have of the "perfect" camera.

I think a lot of people need to go to the top right of their screen and hit the "log out" button, pick up whatever camera they have and go take a walk.

I'm excited about the X-Pro1 because it means the digital photography industry is growing and able to explore more of the shooting experience instead of just the technological aspects. The cheap full-frame rangefinder is another step closer to existing, and who couldn't be glad for that?


Well said! Unfotunately it is quite dark right now and I only have 100 loaded in the f1 right now, so I will have to wait.

The most exciting thing about this camera to me is the sensor! One step closer to figuring out how to make a sensor that replicated film's beauty, I'm way down for that. Once they can capture the exposure latitude offered by negative film I will be complete. Until then it's film only for me. Although I am going to have to get my hands on this camera for a minute at least to really see what it can do for photography as a tool.

New wave contax g2, here we come!

[christian.rudman]

First I'll deal with the autofocus situation you mentioned in your other post. I think a manual focus camera can still be regarded as a professional's tool provided that's what they want ... and you can still be a professional and never need to shoot sports or anything else that requires AF. It depends what area you work in I guess. I personally don't need AF but I do need high ISO capability so I use a D700 which I focus manually, always with primes.

If Leica can come up with a camera as user friendly and as unobtrusive as the M9 is and also give it the ability to produce clean images at 3200 or better it will be one hell of a tool and even at the price you mentioned I would personally have to consider it. It's a lot of money yes ... but if it does the job you want done without fuss and it's going to earn your living for you ... the price is just what you have to pay.

Save for what may happen with the D4, primary reports of the low light capabilities of the X-Pro1 are beyond current DSLRs, and are completely useable up to an 11x17 print at 25,600 ISO, which is the extent of the cameras range. Far out performing the 5D MkII and D700 even at 12,800. So you might have to change your tool soon for that situation here soon, and save a few bucks over any of your other current options.

[Focal Plane Circus]

doesnt look anything like a french duck to me. rather, looks like a damn fine piece of equipment.

C'est pour rire! (LOL) :D:D:D:D:D

[apodeictic]

Well said! Unfotunately it is quite dark right now and I only have 100 loaded in the f1 right now, so I will have to wait.

The most exciting thing about this camera to me is the sensor! One step closer to figuring out how to make a sensor that replicated film's beauty, I'm way down for that. Once they can capture the exposure latitude offered by negative film I will be complete. Until then it's film only for me. Although I am going to have to get my hands on this camera for a minute at least to really see what it can do for photography as a tool.

New wave contax g2, here we come!

Ha, well that comment got me a bit miffed because now people are just making things up to hate about a camera they've never even touched! Aren't we forgetting what the real reason we're all here? We love photographs! If this camera isn't what one wants in making a photograph, so be it! Go back to your M3, F1, G2 or whatever it is that floats your boat. We get so hung up on technology that I think we forget what we truly enjoy- seeing that final piece of art that started in our head and ended up on a piece of paper (or on a screen if that's your thing).

[Leigh Youdale]

As nice at this camera is it still hasn't adressed the focus issue that seems to cause so much discussion around here.


All this "discussion around here" is simply people frothing at the mouth. And nobody can say for sure whether or not it has addressed the "focus issue" because (a) nobody has actually been able to objectively handle a production camera and test the various "issues" and (b) there are so many "issues" of different kinds being raised by different people that any answer about one will still not satisfy the long list of real or imaginary deficiencies or rebut the unsubstantiated opinions that are being paraded in this thread.

Time for everyone to take a cold shower, stop speculating, and if you've really decided it's a bummer and you're not interested - butt out! (Not directed at anyone in particular and everyone in general).

[Juan Valdenebro]

Maybe some RFF members prefer to have a specific new thread or subforum dedicated exclusively to this new digital camera praise. I (and perhaps other members) understood this thread -about leaking info on that camera- was here precisely to hold a mix of perceptions and points of view. Personally, I don't feel bad after other members comments reflecting no worries about the lack of great manual focus... Obviously on another, imaginary thread titled "Let's comment how great this new camera is indeed and feel happy and buy" I wouldn't even tell what I feel or consider true... But right now, this early, with the mixed feelings of what's about to come and what we'd like to get, it seems perfectly normal -and healthy- to comment with a tiny bit of freedom... Isn't it? Especially when we all appreciate Fuji's efforts (my only digital, S3Pro is Fuji) and the nice direction this market segment seems to take...

Cheers,

Juan

[tbarker13]

First I'll deal with the autofocus situation you mentioned in your other post. I think a manual focus camera can still be regarded as a professional's tool provided that's what they want ... and you can still be a professional and never need to shoot sports or anything else that requires AF. It depends what area you work in I guess. I personally don't need AF but I do need high ISO capability so I use a D700 which I focus manually, always with primes. What I need is a camera that can be focused every time in poor light and the D700 covers this need albeit with a weight and size penalty.



I can't disagree with what you say. That's why I don't see any need to disregard the new Fuji as potential professional's tool. If it can do the job that's asked of it, then it works. I've already ordered one, so I'll soon see for myself whether it fits my needs.

I too use a D700, though I primarily use prime AF lenses. I also spent a little time with an X100. I'd still be using it now if weren't limited to the 35mm FL. The focus wasn't as strong as my D700. But at the same time, it was quite adequate for my needs.

[Leigh Youdale]

Maybe some RFF members prefer to have a specific new thread or subforum dedicated exclusively to this new digital camera praise. I (and perhaps other members) understood this thread -about leaking info on that camera- was here precisely to hold a mix of perceptions and points of view. Personally, I don't feel bad after other members comments reflecting no worries about the lack of great manual focus... Obviously on another, imaginary thread titled "Let's comment how great this new camera is indeed and feel happy and buy" I wouldn't even tell what I feel or consider true... But right now, this early, with the mixed feelings of what's about to come and what we'd like to get, it seems perfectly normal -and healthy- to comment with a tiny bit of freedom... Isn't it? Especially when we all appreciate Fuji's efforts (my only digital, S3Pro is Fuji) and the nice direction this market segment seems to take...

Cheers,

Juan

Fundamentally I wouldn't disagree with the thrust of your argument. But what really gets to me is people complaining - not commenting or questioning or asking, but complaining - about aspects of the design they don't even have detailed knowledge about. If we're going to complain, please let it be about something we know is factual and not assumption or guesswork.

[Reddot9]

I tried zone focusing with a Lumix G1 with S/lux 35 f1.4 attached via a Novaflex adapter. Terrible results. So was focusing with the external electronic view finder. Awful. Crop factor is terrible. Its not what Leica lenses are made for. 4/3 cameras like the G1 work best with their dedicated lenses. IMHO.

[Tin]

I tried zone focusing with a Lumix G1 with S/lux 35 f1.4 attached via a Novaflex adapter. Terrible results. So was focusing with the external electronic view finder. Awful. Crop factor is terrible. Its not what Leica lenses are made for. 4/3 cameras like the G1 work best with their dedicated lenses. IMHO.

Would you (or others) kindly explain why and how the crop factor affect the depth of focus of a lens? Isn't it the same lens whether it is used on a full frame camera or a cropped camera?

Tin

[Focal Plane Circus]

I tried zone focusing with a Lumix G1 with S/lux 35 f1.4 attached via a Novaflex adapter. Terrible results. So was focusing with the external electronic view finder. Awful. Crop factor is terrible. Its not what Leica lenses are made for. 4/3 cameras like the G1 work best with their dedicated lenses. IMHO.
I've had pretty good results with Exakta lenses as long as 500mm on my Olympus E-PL2. On a tripod, of course.

[Focal Plane Circus]

Would you (or others) kindly explain why and how the crop factor affect the depth of focus of a lens? Isn't it the same lens whether it is used on a full frame camera or a cropped camera?

Tin
It's the same lens, but smaller sensors "see" less of its image circle. Therefore the effective focal length of the FF lens becomes longer on the "cropped" camera, and depth of focus "collapses" proportionately. Cropping an FF image in post has pretty much the same effect.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Damn, I guess all my M- Leica cameras are a super rip off considering that they have no AF of any kind :)

This camera IS AN AUTOFOCUS CAMERA, not a manual rangefinder. That means, and I'll say it s-l-o-w-l-y for you: we have every right to expect top quality autofocus from an AUTOFOCUS camera that costs 3 times (for the body) what Nikon or Canon charge for cameras (like the digital rebel bodies) that Fuji admits have better AF than this bauble they're pushing.

Put in rangefinder terms, the Cosina Voigtlander cameras have inferior rangefinders compared to Leicas or the Zeiss Ikon body. Its ok because they cost half what the Zeiss does and 1/9 what a Leica film body costs (new prices being compared here).

[tbarker13]

Chris, do you mean to come across as angry as you do? I read your posts and think you are just really irritated about something.

Regarding what you just wrote, I don't remember Fuji ever saying that this camera's autofocus will be worse than a Canon Rebel. Or if they did, I missed it.
I've watched a video of one of their reps saying it would be smoking fast. And I've seen a blog post on Gizmodo where the author says that Fuji told him the AF "won't be as snappy as it is on other cameras."
As far as I know, we have no idea which cameras he's referring to. Surely you would agree that it would be unfair to expect a $1,700 camera to keep pace with the $3,000-$5,000 offerings from Canon and Nikon.
Or does this Fuji have to beat every other camera in existence to avoid being labeled a "bauble?"

[Leigh Youdale]

So what makes a camera a "bauble" Chris? Please explain in detail what "bauble" means to you. At what point of autofocus excellence does a camera cease being a "bauble" and become a "real" camera for "professionals"? Please be explicit and lay down some measurable criteria for "top quality autofocus" so in future we'll know for sure when Fuji (or any other manufacturer) has crossed the Rubicon.
Or are you just having an emotive vent. Or are you upset because people aren't necessarily agreeing with you and you think they should be?

You do excellent work that we all admire, but .... of well, maybe it's just the Winter blues.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris, do you mean to come across as angry as you do? I read your posts and think you are just really irritated about something.

Regarding what you just wrote, I don't remember Fuji ever saying that this camera's autofocus will be worse than a Canon Rebel. Or if they did, I missed it.
I've watched a video of one of their reps saying it would be smoking fast. And I've seen a blog post on Gizmodo where the author says that Fuji told him the AF "won't be as snappy as it is on other cameras."
As far as I know, we have no idea which cameras he's referring to. Surely you would agree that it would be unfair to expect a $1,700 camera to keep pace with the $3,000-$5,000 offerings from Canon and Nikon.
Or does this Fuji have to beat every other camera in existence to avoid being labeled a "bauble?"

Cheap D-slrs like the Canon rebels (They're the cameras I mentioned in my post you responded to) have quite fast AF, and I'll bet you they'll beat this one. They're not $3000-$5000 cameras either. Hell, my new Canon 5D-II was only $2000 (for the body), and its a fullframe body with the same sensor that the top-line Canon EOS 1DsIII has!

It irritates me to see companies bring out stuff that really isn't that great, then charging outrageous prices for the crap. As a working photographer, I can tell you that I am not a walking ATM for gear makers. Few of us are,and its getting tiresome being treated as one. Even really cheap-to-make things like sensor cleaning swabs are sold at prices that make precious metals look cheap. Enough is enough.

This Fuji sounds like a $600 camera, sold for $1000 more because the world has an overabundance of fools who screech about how they're in favor of "capitalism", yet they have zero understanding of the role of the customer in a free market (hint: it doesn't involve bending over and moaning about how good it feels). Our job is to hold businesses to account with our wallets.

Does the new Fuji have to beat $7000 cameras? Heck no, but it damned well better beat cameras costing 1/3 what it does. Right? RIGHT?