View Full Version : February Announcement : New Interchangeable Fujifilm 'X'
Take a look at this thread (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1020&thread=39678053)
Just for clarification... We knew this was coming and I'm assuming that February will be the announcement.. I can't imagine that it would launch in February.
Are we really discussing a mobile phone snapshot of a PowerPoint slide announcing the announcement of a camera that we knew would be announced?
ScottAlexander
10-25-2011, 21:13
Fuji would be smart to make it a full frame, or 1.3 crop camera.. if you're going to take on the Leica X1 with the X100 by name and usability, might as well go for broke.
Fuji would be smart to make it a full frame, or 1.3 crop camera.. if you're going to take on the Leica X1 with the X100 by name and usability, might as well go for broke.
Yeah, I guess the about three people who want to use their existing Leica lenses, as opposed to buying your new Fuji lenses, are a really useful group to cater to when deciding to make your camera three times more expensive and your lenses two times bigger because of the extra large sensor.
back alley
10-25-2011, 21:24
Yeah, I guess the about three people who want to use their existing Leica lenses, as opposed to buying your new Fuji lenses, are a really useful group to cater to when deciding to make your camera three times more expensive and your lenses two times bigger because of the extra large sensor.
in a bad mood tonight?
in a bad mood tonight?
It's morning here :)
back alley
10-25-2011, 21:30
It's morning here :)
ah, that's changes everything!
ah, that's changes everything!
I knew I could count on your understanding :)
Yeah, I guess the about three people who want to use their existing Leica lenses, as opposed to buying your new Fuji lenses, are a really useful group to cater to when deciding to make your camera three times more expensive and your lenses two times bigger because of the extra large sensor.
Well, here are a few hints as to the direction another company is taking... and they make small lenses (http://www.megapixel.co.il/english/archive/23834)
Must say that I'm curious about how Fuji will morph the X100 into an interchangeable lens camera. Especially because of the potential parallels with the Konica Hexar to Hexar-RF transition.
The original fixed lens auto focus Hexar was so well thought out, such a marvelous integration of functions and photographic concepts that it was nothing short of perfect. Everything was tuned to that splendid 35/2 lens. On the RF, the interchangeability aspect spoilt all that.. the finder had to be multi-purpose, the tuning of functions to lens was lost, and worst, most of the brightest ideas behind the AF-Hexar were ditched. This included the aperture-preference approach in P-mode, that flash and ambient in a single shot could be made at two different apertures, automatic focus compensation for infra-red film, the list goes on and on.. Good as it is as an autoexposure rangefinder, the Hexar-RF is miles behind the original AF-Hexar, and as far as I can see spelled the end of Konica as a camera company.
One can only hope that Fuji does things differently.. Keep the good things of the X100 in, and most of all, a proprietary lens mount that allows all the same functions and integration as its predecessor.
buzzardkid
10-25-2011, 23:10
Hmpf.
It's going to be DLSR-shaped again (equals pear-shaped in my POV).
Forget about it.
Roger Hicks
10-26-2011, 01:10
Yeah, I guess the about three people who want to use their existing Leica lenses, as opposed to buying your new Fuji lenses, are a really useful group to cater to when deciding to make your camera three times more expensive and your lenses two times bigger because of the extra large sensor.
Seconded.
Cheers,
R.
Who is buying all those new cameras and systems? :)
Even when their interchangeable lens camera comes out, I won't change from my x100 - all I need is a good 35mm f2. Everything else is just noise!
Who is buying all those new cameras and systems? :)
... people who's x100's have just become obsolete?
... people who's x100's have just become obsolete?
How is it obsolete? The x100 is special in that the sensor and lens are both perfectly tuned to one another. The viewfinder is only for the 35mm lens, and therefore is fantastic too look through - big and bright with just the right amount of space around the frame lines . Interchangeable lenses would mean that the viewfinder would be compromised - possibly just no optical finder, only an EVF. On the x100, the EVF is rubbish compared to the OVF. It would mean that a similar 35mm f2 fujinon lens would be much bigger (on the x100 the lens unit goes very far into the body - specially for that particular sensor), and possibly not as optically good.
There are more things too - more compromises that are to be made when you have interchangeable lenses. As I said before, I would still be using my x100 despite the interchangeable system, unless they can avoid all these compromises - which is doubtful.
It won't be full frame sensor that's for sure.
I don't think I can survive another viral marketing campaign.
Personally, I refuse to buy another new camera until a manufacturer designs one that comes with a talented attractive female photographer to take my photos for me.
I don't think I can survive another viral marketing campaign.
Personally, I refuse to buy another new camera until a manufacturer designs one that comes with a talented attractive female photographer to take my photos for me.
I'd buy one of those :D
How is it obsolete? The x100 is special in that the sensor and lens are both perfectly tuned to one another. The viewfinder is only for the 35mm lens, and therefore is fantastic too look through - big and bright with just the right amount of space around the frame lines . Interchangeable lenses would mean that the viewfinder would be compromised - possibly just no optical finder, only an EVF. On the x100, the EVF is rubbish compared to the OVF. It would mean that a similar 35mm f2 fujinon lens would be much bigger (on the x100 the lens unit goes very far into the body - specially for that particular sensor), and possibly not as optically good.
There are more things too - more compromises that are to be made when you have interchangeable lenses. As I said before, I would still be using my x100 despite the interchangeable system, unless they can avoid all these compromises - which is doubtful.
Sorry it was a joke, a satire on marketing and the modern condition
I'm not sure I'd have her taking pictures ... just sayin'
unixrevolution
10-26-2011, 04:11
Even when their interchangeable lens camera comes out, I won't change from my x100 - all I need is a good 35mm f2. Everything else is just noise!
What about a 24mm f/2 for the 35mm equivalent angle of view?
I dunno about you guys, but I find 35mm on a 35mm camera to be somewhat wonderful. Unfortunately, the only 35mm lenses I have for my 135 cameras are SLR lenses. I really need a 35 for my Leica, but I won't be buying one for at least a few months.
jsrockit
10-26-2011, 04:24
I'm interested in anyone making this type of camera...because I don't think I'll ever buy another digital M again. I was insane (though happy) to do it with the M9 and I can't see myself spending that cash again.
I'm interested in anyone making this type of camera...because I don't think I'll ever buy another digital M again. I was insane (though happy) to do it with the M9 and I can't see myself spending that cash again.
I wonder how long digital M-models will be in use. I mean, Leica will support each model much longer than P&S and DSLR makers use to do. There must happen something to change idea of near lifetime camera - unavailability of parts or change of approach at the company (latter isn't fair considering initial price). My guess is - when parts will no longer be obtainable.
I agree that the Hexar RF lost some of what made the original Hexar great and unique, most of which was inevitable when moving from a fixed AF lens camera to an interchangeable m-mount. That said, you make it sound like the Hexar RF was a terrible camera that shouldn't have been released. Some people even think that the Hexar RF is what the M7 should've been. I'm not endorsing this view (don't know enough about these cameras to do so) or trying to start another debate here, just trying to illustrate the point that the Hexar RF is not all that bad.
But my real point is that an interchangeable X camera could make a lot of sense. Particularly if they get the viewfinder right and if the sensor is an improvement over the already very, very good X100 sensor (as Fuji seems to be claiming with their allusion to FF sensor performance). Throw in a half-way decent price, and I think you have another X camera hit.
Must say that I'm curious about how Fuji will morph the X100 into an interchangeable lens camera. Especially because of the potential parallels with the Konica Hexar to Hexar-RF transition.
The original fixed lens auto focus Hexar was so well thought out, such a marvelous integration of functions and photographic concepts that it was nothing short of perfect. Everything was tuned to that splendid 35/2 lens. On the RF, the interchangeability aspect spoilt all that.. the finder had to be multi-purpose, the tuning of functions to lens was lost, and worst, most of the brightest ideas behind the AF-Hexar were ditched. This included the aperture-preference approach in P-mode, that flash and ambient in a single shot could be made at two different apertures, automatic focus compensation for infra-red film, the list goes on and on.. Good as it is as an autoexposure rangefinder, the Hexar-RF is miles behind the original AF-Hexar, and as far as I can see spelled the end of Konica as a camera company.
One can only hope that Fuji does things differently.. Keep the good things of the X100 in, and most of all, a proprietary lens mount that allows all the same functions and integration as its predecessor.
I agree that the Hexar RF lost some of what made the original Hexar great and unique, most of which was inevitable when moving from a fixed AF lens camera to an interchangeable m-mount. That said, you make it sound like the Hexar RF was a terrible camera...
Certainly not meant to make it sound that way. The Hexar RF is a great rangefinder with helpful automation thrown in. It's just that the original AF-Hexar tied everything together in a unique way that I haven't seen in any other camera since.
Must say that I'm curious about how Fuji will morph the X100 into an interchangeable lens camera. Especially because of the potential parallels with the Konica Hexar to Hexar-RF transition...
...One can only hope that Fuji does things differently.. Keep the good things of the X100 in, and most of all, a proprietary lens mount that allows all the same functions and integration as its predecessor.
I can see your points. It depends on the lens strategy Fuji will go. If it should be M-compatible (like the Hexar RF is), you will be forced deleting many modern features like AF, shutter priority, full program mode, clean and simple VF etc.
I suppose Fuji will push the button on an own X-lens line (hopefully with a flange distance you may still adapt M-lenses). A new lens line could save most of the goodies of the X100.
What I'm very curious is what approach they will follow regarding the VF:
Will we see an evolution of the X100 hybrid VF technolgy?
With added zooming ability? (Contax G approach)
With superimposed electronic focus help?
With OLED EVF only? (NEX-7 approach)
Exciting weeks to follow...
I can see your points. It depends on the lens strategy Fuji will go. If it should be M-compatible (like the Hexar RF is), you will be forced deleting many modern features like AF, shutter priority, full program mode, clean and simple VF etc.
I suppose Fuji will push the button on an own X-lens line (hopefully with a flange distance you may still adapt M-lenses). A new lens line could save most of the goodies of the X100.
What I'm very curious is what approach they will follow regarding the VF:
Will we see an evolution of the X100 hybrid VF technolgy?
With added zooming ability? (Contax G approach)
With superimposed electronic focus help?
With OLED EVF only? (NEX-7 approach)Exciting weeks to follow...
An 'M' mount does not mean that you need to give up anything. It just means that Fuji would need to design electrical contacts that can work with the 'M' mount design. So, technically this would be a new mount with the ability to mount the 'M' manual lenses.
Frontman
10-26-2011, 06:41
Any chance this new camera will be like the older Fujifilm SLR interchangeable-lens cameras, meaning that it will use the Nikon F mount?
emraphoto
10-26-2011, 06:46
if an x??? comes out, with interchangeable primes, i will do a dance (which won't be pretty).
i suspect, with the amount of x100's i have seen lately, a few colleagues and friends will be dancing with me!
Any chance this new camera will be like the older Fujifilm SLR interchangeable-lens cameras, meaning that it will use the Nikon F mount?
They're zero, for licensing and other reasons.
An 'M' mount does not mean that you need to give up anything. It just means that Fuji would need to design electrical contacts that can work with the 'M' mount design. So, technically this would be a new mount with the ability to mount the 'M' manual lenses.
Advantages:
- You can mount M-mount lenses without an adapter
- That's it
Disadvantages:
- You have a mount with a long flangeback distance
- You have a mount with a relatively narrow throat, more so if you account for the now-useless rangefinder cam collar
- You have a relatively large mount that uses more material than it really needs
- You have a complex design challenge for the contacts (either put them inside the throat and be flamed to death on the Internet because some 1957 lens isn't compatible, or put them in the bayonet flange à la Pentax K for compatibility and have a mechanically more complex and expensive spring design)
- People will mount your lenses on Leicas and complain how they don't work, the rangefinder doesn't engage, the image circle is too small etc.
In other words, it's not going to happen. If it was worth it, someone would have done it. Adapters are here to stay.
Very good analysis. Sound like a modern 'M' mount isn't in the cards.
I wonder if the mount will be an m or an F, I mean considering the Fuji and Nikon history..
jsrockit
10-26-2011, 08:12
I hope Fuji goes with its own mount and makes fresh lenses to go with it. Fuji's no slouch at lens making and I'd rather have a slew of lenses that are relatively cheap (compared to leica) and made for the camera body. Then again, I'm not opposed to AF either.
I wonder if the mount will be an m or an F, I mean considering the Fuji and Nikon history..
It won't be F mount. There are both technical and financial reasons why that is extremely unlikely.
Archlich
10-26-2011, 08:25
I wonder if the mount will be an m or an F, I mean considering the Fuji and Nikon history..
Aye, to use your big and heavy Nikon glass designed for a mirror box on a mirrorless camera.
Then why VF (completely obscured) and why a Fuji? NEX does all that.
shadowfox
10-26-2011, 09:22
I hope Fuji goes with its own mount and makes fresh lenses to go with it. Fuji's no slouch at lens making and I'd rather have a slew of lenses that are relatively cheap (compared to leica) and made for the camera body. Then again, I'm not opposed to AF either.
+1
Even with a new mount, it shouldn't stop people from making adapters for M, LTM, Contax, Nikon, etc.
The Fuji Guys:
"I am also preparing for my visit to Tokyo in November to test out and learn all i can about the Interchangeable Lens Camera."
Sounds like Fuji is much further along than we might have guessed. Perhaps they will be able to fill the NEX-7 void.
jsrockit
11-03-2011, 04:03
Nice! I'm excited about this camera.
Ken Ford
11-03-2011, 05:36
Hmpf.
It's going to be DLSR-shaped again (equals pear-shaped in my POV).
Forget about it.
Where did you read this? I've been following the announcements and haven't seen anything that said this.
In fact, I'll be very surprised if it has a SLR-like form factor. Fuji's two most recent cameras that have generated a lot of buzz have OVFs.
I'm willing to bet a donut that the new interchangeable lens system will be a RF-like form factor and will have a zooming OVF, likely with a EVF overlay similar to the X100.
jsrockit
11-03-2011, 06:27
People thought it was going to be DSLR shaped based on a roadmap... but they were confused and not correct. The DSLR shaped thing is a seperate camera without interchangable lenses.
noimmunity
11-03-2011, 08:20
Nice! I'm excited about this camera.
Me three.
Was getting very close to a GXR, but may have to wait this one out.
I got my X100 a week ago; it's the best rangefinder-esq camera I've ever handled. Leaves Leica in the dust; thinking people (as opposed to cultists) put up with Leica cameras to get access to their glass. If Fuji can create a X system camera with as few as three excellent primes, they'll own this part of the market, even if they double the price of entry.
jsrockit
11-14-2011, 03:18
I got my X100 a week ago; it's the best rangefinder-esq camera I've ever handled. Leaves Leica in the dust; thinking people (as opposed to cultists) put up with Leica cameras to get access to their glass. If Fuji can create a X system camera with as few as three excellent primes, they'll own this part of the market, even if they double the price of entry.
Uh, I use both the X100 and the M9 and can't see how the X100 "Leaves Leica in the dust." ... Care to explain?
Also, Leica is a luxury brand (unfortunately), so they will still do well even if Fuji hits a home run. Leica is in the unique position of not having any real competitors.
I read the comment to be in reference to the X1.
All cameras have the potential of being exactly what we want. Unfortunately, those fantasies are usually greatly modified once a product is announced. That said, Fuji has already leaked information that will make for a disappointed group here and elsewhere should it not deliver 'full format' like results from a small package.
jsrockit
11-14-2011, 06:50
That said, Fuji has already leaked information that will make for a disappointed group here and elsewhere should it not deliver 'full format' like results from a small package.
Well, considering the X100 is very capable, I can't see it being an issue. What I can see being an issue here is that it doesn't have a m mount and that manual focus will not be a primary function. ;)
They have caught a lot of flack for their fly-by-wire X100 manual focus. I would hope that they have been listening. The message from X100 users has not been a mixed one. Electronic M-Mount.. I hope.. but I doubt it.
I hope Fuji goes with its own mount and makes fresh lenses to go with it. Fuji's no slouch at lens making and I'd rather have a slew of lenses that are relatively cheap (compared to leica) and made for the camera body. Then again, I'm not opposed to AF either.
+100
Based on the assumption that the new system will use an APS-C or similar sized sensor something like following would be a nice initial set of lens.
23mm F 2
35mm F 1.4
60mm F 2.0
Followed by a couple of zooms and something a bit wider
15-50mm F 2.8
15-70mm F 4.0
10-12mm F 2.8
jsrockit
11-14-2011, 07:12
They have caught a lot of flack for their fly-by-wire X100 manual focus. I would hope that they have been listening. The message from X100 users has not been a mixed one. Electronic M-Mount.. I hope.. but I doubt it.
It's not going to be a manual focus camera... manual focus will be a secondary afterthought again. Don't get your hopes up...
Where did you read this? I've been following the announcements and haven't seen anything that said this.
In fact, I'll be very surprised if it has a SLR-like form factor. Fuji's two most recent cameras that have generated a lot of buzz have OVFs.
I'm willing to bet a donut that the new interchangeable lens system will be a RF-like form factor and will have a zooming OVF, likely with a EVF overlay similar to the X100.
Keeping my fingers crossed that you're right :) as the one thing the world doesn't need is another DSLR. JMO but I think alot of people are hoping that the Fuji continues the trend it started with the X100 in providing an options to those of who aren't interested in lugging around the typical CaKon DSLR.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.