View Full Version : Fuji announces interchangeable lens system!
So about 12 hours ago Fujifilm made their future mirrorless/interchangeable lens system plans known - company president and CEO Shigetaka Komori said it will create a mirrorless, interchangeable lens camera built around a larger sensor with ‘resolution and low noise [that] will surpass the 35mm full size sensor.’
Fuji said they will reveal the specs before the launch only and that the clear goal is “to archieve the highest image quality possible“!
There should be a mockup of the camera around early 2012. The future is looking good!
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/481/838/21.jpg
source: dcwatchimpress (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fnew s%2F20111005_481838.html)
I hope this gives Canon and Nikon a good shake - it's about time.
radiocemetery
10-05-2011, 15:31
I saw this announcement and I am hoping that Fuji can pull this off at a price that I can afford.
ItsReallyDarren
10-05-2011, 15:33
(Talk about pouncing on Kodak when its down)
JUST as I was thinking about getting a NEX 7, Fuji announces their foray into the interchangeable lens system.
Does the wording "will surpass the 35mm full size sensor." Give you the feeling it will remain APC-C?
I would take as they're producing a competitor to the S2 and Pentax 645D... the 35mm SLR market is already saturated enough, the medium format digital arena less so - given Fuji's tendency to release more "niche" products (Fuji X100, GF670W and GF670 etc).
they would be in a very good place to take a large portion of the medium format digital market if they where to produce an interchangeable lens MF-D camera at a more affordable price.
Nikon Bob
10-05-2011, 15:43
If it is similar to the X100 but with the glitches tuned out I could be very interested.
Bob
Does the wording "will surpass the 35mm full size sensor." Give you the feeling it will remain APC-C?
Yes. So as to be compatible with existing lenses for that format, as well as for full frame.
I'm thinking the wording of the sensor size statement means it'll be just under, or just over the size of full frame. Very slim possibility of medium format, but more likely APS-C.
I'm cool with aps-c in a small/rangefinder style body, with lenses made for that sensor size.
rbelyell
10-05-2011, 16:10
i believe many who had their credit cards out for the nex 7 are quietly putting them back in their wallets.:)
celluloidprop
10-05-2011, 16:43
Er... there was kind of a major event in Japan right at the intro of the X100. I wouldn't blame Fuji for slow deliveries on that one.
wgerrard
10-05-2011, 16:49
I take the sensor remark as marketing hype. But, it would be very good to get beyond the fixation with the 35mm frame. It's a convention, nothing more and nothing less.
batterytypehah!
10-05-2011, 16:59
I take the sensor remark as marketing hype. But, it would be very good to get beyond the fixation with the 35mm frame. It's a convention, nothing more and nothing less.
Not for people who are already invested in lenses. May the day be long off that I have to go digital but d4mmit, I'm not going to start buying lenses all over again when it comes.
andredossantos
10-05-2011, 17:00
Hmm. Interesting. The bit about image quality to me sounded like they meant that they have (are developing?) an sensor that will surpass full frame even though it's smaller. This would make sense if they are hoping to maintain the smaller form factor of the x100, Nex, etc.
As my heart truly lies in 1) color and 2) the 6x6 format (no digital equivalent without plunking down serious dinero) I recently made the decision to ditch my 5Dmkii in order to concentrate on shooting as many rolls of slide film before color film goes the way of the dodo or gets prohibitively expensive.
That being said, I'm glad companies are finally getting serious about creating cameras that aren't freaking enormous, have manual controls, great image quality, etc. Gives me something to think about when I ultimately get back into digital. Maybe I won't have to plunk down 8K on an M body afterall :)
wgerrard
10-05-2011, 17:03
Not for people who are already invested in lenses. May the day be long off that I have to go digital but d4mmit, I'm not going to start buying lenses all over again when it comes.
I have a bunch of M lenses, too. But, it doesn't makes sense for technology to be hamstrung just because some folks own a lot of lenses based on design choices made almost a century ago.
Another player in the interchangeable lens mirror less game this is good.
I am one of those on the nex7 wagon so I can use my legacy lenses. This announce has not stopped me in that direction since there is going to be no real hard info until next year.
Gary
Another player in the interchangeable lens mirror less game this is good.
I am one of those on the nex7 wagon so I can use my legacy lenses. This announce has not stopped me in that direction since there is going to be no real hard info until next year.
Gary
Same goes for me. And even if I were to buy both, it would still be well under the cost of an M9!
I'm not waiting for Fujifilm. I've been very productive with my X100 but there are many times I wish I could have swapped out the 23mm lens with something else and I'm not just thinking about when my lens developed the sticky aperture blade syndrome!
Thus I am on the NEX-7 bandwagon too, as it appears to be the single camera that offers the right mix of image quality, interchangeable lens, support for legacy lenses, integrated high quality viewfinder (which I'm sure will be miles better than the EVF in the X100 if not quite as nice as a hybrid OVF/EVF), and ... small size.
We are already at the point where sensors are more than good enough for many purposes. As long as IQ is up there, and the implementation of the other features and abilities is solid enough, I won't feel the need to upgrade to something else for quite some time...
Same goes for me. And even if I were to buy both, it would still be well under the cost of an M9!
+10 ? :D
I think u could buy a gxr, nex7 and the Fuji and still have money for the new Fuji lenses for the price of m9 body alone. :p
Gary
+10 ? :D
I think u could buy a gxr, nex7 and the Fuji and still have money for the new Fuji lenses for the price of m9 body alone. :p
Gary
Gary - I forgot about the GXR! And I am intrigued by it. No AA filter is an advantage.
Gxr only solves part of my legacy lens requirements :(. This is why Nex is at top of my list.
But those guys on the gxr threads are making the Nex commitment harder and harder, Segedi.
Gary
The cameras are expensive and limiting for consumers (no zooms and movie mode - so far). The pros and RF crowd want these cameras.
The Fuji x100 and the Sony Nex have movie modes. If I remember correctly the gxr does too.
Gary
Andercam
10-05-2011, 17:59
Just when the X100 is becomming part of me, though there are times when a longer lens would be better, Sony beckons with the Nex 7. Now Fuji is upping the ante again. "Be still my heart "
Pkr
On your other points about mainly for the adv amateur u are right.
Gary
stratcat
10-05-2011, 18:23
Wonderful news! I resisted buying the x100 because I hoped Fuji would realize it needed interchangeable lenses. If the price for the new one is around the x100 I'll definitely get one.
I would be happy if Fuji added a second X100 type camera with a 28mm Equiv. lens.
I get the feeling that's the thought that spawned this idea. There's people that would prefer a 50mm equiv. lens too. For Fuji it's a much better idea to make a body and multiple lenses rather than multiple fixed lens bodies.
Though it's all guessing until they give us a little more info as to what body type they'll go with, but it seems silly that they'd develop their hybrid viewfinder and just use it in the one camera.
celluloidprop
10-05-2011, 21:18
The only flaw to interchangeable lenses is that they'd have to be larger, I think - the X100's 24/2 is so small because it could be adapted directly to the body/microlenses on the sensor, etc.
No reason they'd have to be any larger than M-mount lenses, I guess.
This is, by all appearances, exactly the kick in the pants that Leica both needs and deserves.
Well the image of the X-S1 they have in their roadmap manages to look both ugly and boring. Certainly no Leica killer, not even a RF lookalike and without the viewfinder and the retro styling that made the X100 the talk of town. I hope for them that it is just a PR picture
Well the image of the X-S1 they have in their roadmap manages to look both ugly and boring. Certainly no Leica killer, not even a RF lookalike and without the viewfinder and the retro styling that made the X100 the talk of town. I hope for them that it is just a PR picture
X-S1 is not announced mirrorless body, I think. So Fuji still have a chance. X-S1 looks like a typical fixed lens superzoom - which it is, indeed.
Jamie Pillers
10-05-2011, 22:36
I'm betting they're designing something like an APS-C sixed sensor with many more pixels than currently used, and those pixel positions on the sensor are going to be capable of capturing far more light than current designs. There's been so much going on in material design, micro mirror design, flexible sensor substrates.... on and on. All of this points to evermore sensor density and throughput.
This well could be the system I've been waiting for for so long: SMALL system ala Leica M, interchangeable lenses, large sensor, good IQ, not over the top in price. Leica filled all these, except the price one.
I've been considering the micro 4/3 for some time now, but this could be perfect for me, as I love the looks and specs of the X100. If the system remains the same quality as the X100, except the few bugs it has, they surely have a customer. Let's see which lenses are being designed for it. If they are as good as the one in the X100, I'm sold. If they can mount M lenses with an adapter, I'm more than sold :-)
I'd really love to have a Leica M9, but price is a big no no for me.
Great times for people like me looking for a good IQ, small system!!.
tom.w.bn
10-06-2011, 00:41
integrated high quality viewfinder (which I'm sure will be miles better than the EVF in the X100 if not quite as nice as a hybrid OVF/EVF), and ... small size.
...
Why do you think so? I'v seen a lot of EVF already and none of them is good. How come that Sony can suddenly deliver a good EVF?
Pickett Wilson
10-06-2011, 02:20
I'm glad I'm not on this search for the perfect M9 replacement. After 50 years of trying to buy my way into becoming a good guitar player, I've finally figured out there is no Holy Grail. I still suck as a guitar player.
Cameras are worse, though. Every six months there is a new $1,000 camera that promises to be "The One," and everyone rushes to buy one. And then it has the inevitable compromises. And the search begins anew. I guess for many the search itself is part of the fun. Makes me weary. ;)
Every six months there is a new $1,000 camera that promises to be "The One," and everyone rushes to buy one. And then it has the inevitable compromises. And the search begins anew. I guess for many the search itself is part of the fun. Makes me weary. ;)
That's the reason why I'm still using old film camera - can upgrade (or swap, to be exact) sensor every other day, and still have $1000 in my pocket (every other year). Yes, and I'm not even mentioning time I save don't reading rumour sites and company announcements. Film is dead? Sure, but still helps to stay consistent.
UPD: yes, I spend part of saved time...here ;)
kai.zorki
10-06-2011, 02:57
Why do you think so? I'v seen a lot of EVF already and none of them is good. How come that Sony can suddenly deliver a good EVF?
Sony´s EVF has got twice as much resolution as the older, good ones. Furthermore, everybody who tested the new EVF said, that it would be really good. The new attachment EVF for the nex 5n is the same as the one in the nex 7.
I believe they made a great leap in that regard.
This announcement wouldn't stop me from buying an x100 IMO.
The interchangeable lenses will be nice, but the VF (if optical) will be comprimise (due to different focal lengths) and the whole package won't be as compact or well tuned as the current x100 and 23mm fujinon.
Really, all you need is a 35mm f2 lens IMO.
emraphoto
10-06-2011, 03:59
I'm glad I'm not on this search for the perfect M9 replacement. After 50 years of trying to buy my way into becoming a good guitar player, I've finally figured out there is no Holy Grail. I still suck as a guitar player.
Cameras are worse, though. Every six months there is a new $1,000 camera that promises to be "The One," and everyone rushes to buy one. And then it has the inevitable compromises. And the search begins anew. I guess for many the search itself is part of the fun. Makes me weary. ;)
packin up the eyelevel f2's right this moment. ratty, brass showing everywhere, a few dents and scratches and perfect.
Potentially good news, but not looking forward to all the speculation followed by the hype and inevitable disappointment because it is not a native M mount, only has clean IQ to ISO256000, doesn't have wifi, gps, only does 10 fps, lacks a decisive moment mode and the AF is not instant :rolleyes:
jsrockit
10-06-2011, 04:17
Well, I'm not so excited...yet. We have no idea what the shape will be, what type of viewfinder will be used, what type of mount will be used, etc. Too little info. It could be a X100 with interchangable lenses ....but it may not be.
noimmunity
10-06-2011, 05:51
Easier for me to show my excitement, since I don't have an M9 nor an X100.
I've felt for a year that something more from Fuji has been in the cards.
M Mount digital alternatives are picking up speed (though compatibility/performance with this Fuji remains to be seen).
Given my limited resources, I just went a few days prior to this announcement through the process of revising my expectations away from the M9 towards other possibilities (like the M8 in combo with a GXR). Looks like it's gonna be a good decision in the long run.
wgerrard
10-06-2011, 06:31
... Certainly no Leica killer...
I'm sure that's very far from their mind. Presumably, they want to sell more cameras than that.
Seriously, this new camera is at least 6 months away. Let's wait and see. I'm just glad another alternative is coming on the market. The critical thing, the really important thing, is their claim to improved sensor tech.
j.scooter
10-06-2011, 06:45
Am I the only one that thinks this is going to be a Medium Format system? I didn't see anything in the press release saying that it was going to be compact and rangefinder-esqe, unless I missed something.
Thom Hogan believes the sensor is likely to be sized between APS-C and FF.
But I agree with Pickett Wilson: the constant barrage of digital product announcements, speculation, etc., etc. starts to get very tiring. Oddly, it becomes dulling.
As a fellow looking for a first digital camera and weighing all the compromises I'm left with a headache and lack of interest. Maybe I'll just upgrade to the iPhone 4s and call it a day. ;)
jsrockit
10-06-2011, 06:57
Am I the only one that thinks this is going to be a Medium Format system? I didn't see anything in the press release saying that it was going to be compact and rangefinder-esqe, unless I missed something.
I think they'd come out and say it was a medium format camera and wouldn't have it associated with the X100 in the pic.
noimmunity
10-06-2011, 07:16
the constant barrage of digital product announcements, speculation, etc., etc. starts to get very tiring. Oddly, it becomes dulling.
To which we could add the constant barrage of otherwise boring photos taken with the latest new products...
jsrockit
10-06-2011, 07:26
To which we could add the constant barrage of otherwise boring photos taken with the latest new products...
Bad photos are not exclusive to new cameras...
The article says it will have the X designation and probably share the styling of the X10 and the X100 also that they sold 70,000 X100 in 6 months, that's a lot of cameras!
FrozenInTime
10-06-2011, 07:36
... they sold 70,000 X100 in 6 months, that's a lot of cameras!
And won't sell many more ... Osborne effect.
We don't know yet what it will be - but given that they seem to pitch for the DSLR market, it might be rather less rangefinderesque than we hope. It might even turn out to be a Nikon AF mount FF EVIL...
Ok so the CEO says it will share the styling of the x range of cameras and have a full frame beating apc sensor, be mirrorless and have interchangeable lenses, I think we have a fair idea of what it might look like and how it may function?
noimmunity
10-06-2011, 08:10
Bad photos are not exclusive to new cameras...
True. But new cameras provide otherwise absent legitimation.
Ok so the CEO says it will share the styling of the x range of cameras and have a full frame beating apc sensor, be mirrorless and have interchangeable lenses, I think we have a fair idea of what it might look like and how it may function?
Bear in mind that that text is a machine translation from Japanese, and that he does not want to commit himself too much. Mirrorless and interchangeable lens is the only definitive thing I can read there.
Given the X-S1, a "X styling" obviously does not imply rangefinder looks. Likewise, a phrase that boils down to "better than current full frame cameras" might imply a bigger or smaller sensor, or even a improved FF sensor - maybe Fuji is returning to their inter-grid extra pixels? On the other hand, "SLR mirrorless" is a phrase mentioned several times.
celluloidprop
10-06-2011, 11:15
I indulge in the same megapixel wars as everyone ('if only the D700 had 20MP!'), but printing files from the X100 and D700, 12MP looks mighty good at 16x24 (or 10MP at 16x20 if you crop). The only real problem is cropping room if you want to print that large (and honestly, how many of us were regularly printing that large shooting 35mm film? I didn't even have access to a darkroom, in college, that could go that large easily).
I suspect 16-18MP is the sweet spot for noise and MP - the D7000 (16MP) produces outstanding high-ISO files for a APS-C sensor, the 7D (18MP) less outstanding, the A77/Nex-7 sensor (24MP) looks a bit iffy at 1600+.
18MP and dynamic range that approximates color negative film? That sounds tasty.
FrozenInTime
10-06-2011, 11:18
18MP and dynamic range that approximates color negative film? That sounds tasty.
Sounds good even with fewer pixels : dynamic range is what I craze for.
shadowfox
10-06-2011, 12:48
If Fuji came out with a digital rangefinder the size of GS645 with a matching big sensor, that would be too cool.
jsrockit
10-06-2011, 13:01
If Fuji came out with a digital rangefinder the size of GS645 with a matching big sensor, that would be too cool.
It sure would, especially if they could do it at a price point that is close to its film medium format cameras (which isn't happening).
I'm no Leica fan but why do you say that ... is this a reference to the X1?
The M9 is certainly out on it's own and nothing anyone bulilds short of a full frame DRF with M mount is going to affect sales of that particular flagship.
I say it in reference to the fact that Leica's M-series digital cameras: (1) are exorbitantly expensive; (2) are hard to obtain (supply chain is relatively empty, especially for lenses); (3) have relatively poor high-ISO performance; (4) have no live-view, and no ability to capture video; (5) violate the Barnack ideal by being bigger and heavier than they have to be in order to provide reasonable image quality.
Points 3 and 4 are especially damning, because they both have dramatic impacts on image quality.
[3] For shooting in lower light, IQ is critically influenced by two things: movement of the camera and subject, and focus error. You can use an ultra-fast lens, but these are the conditions where it's hardest to focus and where focus is also most critical.
[4] For imaging under less demanding conditions, IQ is still generally limited by the ability to set critical focus, and the absolutely best way to do that is by live view -- as Phase One clearly understands with their new touch based tap-to-enlarge interface. Similarly, the lack of live view precludes accurate framing, especially close up. Put bluntly, there's no reason to use expensive fast lenses of 50mm and longer with a camera that can't reliably focus them -- especially under the very field conditions where lens speed is most useful.
It astounds me that it's 2011, and Leica can charge what they do for a digital camera with such glaring and obvious limitations. The other advantages of the M9 are obviously significant enough to create a market for these flawed and expensive cameras, enough so that Leica sells as many as they can produce.
But: imagine how cool it would be if someone made a modern camera with most of the M9's good points, with many of the M9's very real deficits corrected, and sold it at a more reasonable price point! The X-100 suggests that Fuji has the engineering and design chops to do that. The question is whether they have the will to do it in a way that reinforces the strengths of the X100 design, and attenuates its weaknesses and glitches.
I'm delighted at the prospect of real competition from down-market that will light a fire under Leica's butt. If Fuji can continue to innovate at the pace shown by the X100, Leica's going to have real competition on their hands; everyone will have to step up their game.
And over the long run that should be a good thing for everyone, Leica included.
Juan Valdenebro
10-06-2011, 17:55
I think just the same: all this is positive and will benefit all of us in a short time, maybe 1-2 years...
Cheers,
Juan
Thom Hogan believes the sensor is likely to be sized between APS-C and FF.
APS-H maybe? Canon uses the 1.3x 16MP crop sensor in it's Canon 1D Mark IV.
If the X100 is the digital Hexar AF, I can only hope that this new camera will become the digital Contax G2.
Thom Hogan believes the sensor is likely to be sized between APS-C and FF.
I'd take the opposite bet in a hot New York minute.
Hogan's so full of himself, and he's obsessed with sensor size, which is why he's misunderstood the appeal of both micro 4/3 and the X-100 from the get-go.
It'll be a really good sensor and it will be APS-C or smaller. Fuji understands what Barnack had to teach us (as does Olympus, in fits and starts). Hogan, a "big iron" nature photographer and SLR nut, fundamentally does not.
I toataly agree that this is a good thing. Also, if Fuji would put a rangefinder patch in the viewfinder...well, let's just say that Leica would be selling a lot fewer digital cameras than they already do.
Joe
I toataly agree that this is a good thing. Also, if Fuji would put a rangefinder patch in the viewfinder...well, let's just say that Leica would be selling a lot fewer digital cameras than they already do.
Joe
They won't, nor will anyone else besides MAYBE voigtlander or epson with some obscure manual rangefinder digital.
AF is the future (fortunately or unfortunately - depending on your perspective)
AF is the future (fortunately or unfortunately - depending on your perspective)
So why did Olympus just release two micro 4/3 AF lenses with hard infinity stops? :cool:
So why did Olympus just release two micro 4/3 AF lenses with hard infinity stops? :cool:
I know that's a tongue in cheek comment, but obviously it's a secondary focusing method to the primary - which is the current very fast and very accurate digital pen AF. Hard stops on the rings should be there in the first place anyway...
Also, the 45mm f1.8 doesn't have the hard stops - only the 12mm f2 does unfortunately.
infrequent
10-07-2011, 04:07
why announce it before they have anything useful to share? some X-10 updates would have been nice.
They announce to blunt NEX-7 sales.
I'm very attracted to the xpan at the moment. Different from the digirace, different format, less pics, more thinking behind it. I also like my Olympus Om1 a lot at the moment, as well as the Minolta XE-7 I just bought.
jsrockit
10-07-2011, 06:12
why announce it before they have anything useful to share? some X-10 updates would have been nice.
Maybe they announced it because they know that it is the camera many wanted the X100 to be?
Maybe they announced it because they know that it is the camera many wanted the X100 to be?
Given that they still can't keep 'em in stock, it's pretty clear that the X100 is the camera that many wanted the X100 to be. But yes, the point is to build excitement for a new product.
So long as it's not Duke Nukem Forever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Duke_Nukem_Forever), that's a perfectly reasonable marketing strategy.
jsrockit
10-07-2011, 08:36
Given that they still can't keep 'em in stock, it's pretty clear that the X100 is the camera that many wanted the X100 to be. But yes, the point is to build excitement for a new product.
So long as it's not Duke Nukem Forever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Duke_Nukem_Forever), that's a perfectly reasonable marketing strategy.
Right, it was for me...and 69,999 others, but not for many others who expected a Fuji "M9" with a perfect manual focus mode and interchangable lenses.
This may disrupt my semi-plans to go m4/3 ... I have Fujinon lenses on my 4x5, Fujinon enlarging lenses. Just sayin' ...
noimmunity
10-07-2011, 21:45
a full frame beating apc sensor
The sensor set-up of the X10 may give some clues as to the way Fuji plans for the new interchangeable system to "beat" full frame. As with the X10, there would be three options: 1) high rez 36 MP; 2) high dynamic range 18MP; 3) high ISO 18 MP. (From the X10: "The 12MP sensor can produce either 12MP images in high resolution mode, under-expose half its pixels to provide 6MP images with greater dynamic range, or combine neighboring pixels for a 6MP high sensitivity mode.")
Archiver
10-08-2011, 16:57
I think they'd come out and say it was a medium format camera and wouldn't have it associated with the X100 in the pic.
The faux-DSLR X-S1 is also in that product tree. I imagine that a few jaws dropped when that little style blunder was announced. :D
The faux-DSLR X-S1 is also in that product tree. I imagine that a few jaws dropped when that little style blunder was announced. :D
Yeah you're not wrong there - what a hideous little blob.
David Murphy
10-08-2011, 23:23
I'm very attracted to the xpan at the moment. Different from the digirace, different format, less pics, more thinking behind it. I also like my Olympus Om1 a lot at the moment, as well as the Minolta XE-7 I just bought.Great cameras!
DougFord
10-08-2011, 23:49
Second generation of the hybrid VF should be interesting.
Should have some sort of variable mag in the OVF mode depending on the lens attached. I could see this being a very closed system with regards to lens/mount design.
My wild-ass guess is it'll have a square ~30mm2 sensor. :p
Second generation of the hybrid VF should be interesting.
Should have some sort of variable mag in the OVF mode depending on the lens attached. I could see this being a very closed system with regards to lens/mount design....
While the X100 is compared mostly to the Hexar AF your suppositions here sound like you characterize a digital Contax G. It would be wonderful if something similar would set on the gear horizon. Of course it should have a better manual focus capability then the X100. An the Contax G.
Regarding the lens mount: Fuji has enough technical knowledge to make a lens line by their own. At the moment I'm not shure if I would like to see a perfect matching proprietary Fujinon lens line coming up. But, if the registration distance and diameter are not small enough, there will be no way to use an adapter for M mount lens on this new body.
Speculation on mount variants:
Pure M mount (like GXR A12-M)
Proprietary Fuji mount with enough room for adapters (like m4/3, NEX E mount)
Proprietary Fuji mount with no room for adapters (like Contax G)
:confused:
Too much guesswork at the moment :) Better I wait until some specs will leak to the internet
Yeah you're not wrong there - what a hideous little blob.
So is the Pana GH series. But those hideous little blobs are great cameras.
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