View Full Version : why does the ricoh grd series have cult status?
paulfish4570
10-02-2011, 15:10
what i have read so far indicates the cult sprang forth in japan. i've looked at a couple of sites/blogs by grd photographers. lots of interesting images, but could the photos not have been made with something else?
i like the looks of the series very much, by the way, but i have not handled one. with that in mind, the grd iv is on my short list for a possible digital camera purchase ...
Paul,
I have owned a couple of GRDs as well as the film GR1V and GR21 and the one thing they share is a wonderful shooting experience for a serious photographer. The ergonomics are superb, everything is in the right place. Features are easily accessed, build quality is superb. The lenses tend to be fast primes.
It's one of those things you have to hold and try, I have loved mine!
Kent
Ergonomics, customizability, size, lens... :) Some people will also say that the pictures from this camera (JPEGs in particular), are unique looking. I don't have enough experience with digital p&s cameras to compare, really, though I do like the colors this camera produces. And everything else I mentioned at the start of the post is definitely not hype, in my humble opinion. One thing, though, is to make sure your expectations are set at the right level. This is still a small sensor, after all, and cannot compete with large sensors in terms of noise, dynamic range, etc. At the same time, the f1.9 aperture means you will be shooting at high ISOs at lot less than you would with another compact p&s. I'll stop now or I'll just keep thinking about more great things about this camera.
One of the only point and shoots with a fast 28mm lens with little distortion.
Great b&w JPEG mode - almost looks like film, great color JPEGs - rich and excellent color balance.
Great user interface - feels like a camera, not a computer.
Tiny camera size means take anywhere.
That being said, they're also somewhat notoriously unreliable. My GRD is currently not focusing at all, and they tend to develop problems as they age. I think the GRD III onwards have fixed all these bugs and are more reliable cameras.
I don't have a GRD (I use an LX3) but everything I've read about the Ricoh suggests it has excellent handling and build quality compared to other quality small sensor digicams. So while the IQ mightn't be that much different, if the ergonomics and haptics are much more satisfying that would explain the cult status. A bit like the M-series in RF's, I suppose.
If the new Nikon V1 wasn't so pricey it might be worth a look - bigger sensor, small form factor, EVF - no reports yet on the handling, that I can see.
batterytypehah!
10-02-2011, 15:47
Half an hour and five responses and we've already heard "superb build quality" and "notoriously unreliable" -- what gives?
Ricoh is one of those companies I can't figure out. I own and use the 500G, R1, and a Sears-branded SLR that's really a Ricoh XR-7. Fun, interesting, somewhat different from the mainstream those certainly are. But superbly built? Not hardly. Lagging a good deal behind the bigger Japanese makers in that regard.
This is ancient history and may or may not still figure in the digital age but then the R1 form factor still lives on.
Cult object status is most often attained when a loyal following for any object is adopted, comprised of people who:
1) Wear socks and birkenstock sandals or shoes together.
2) Drive Saabs
3) Use those little straps behind their heads that connect to the earpieces of their glasses
4) Use only Apple computers.
5) most often wear striped T shirts with Plaid knee length shorts, Or khaki cargo shorts.
There is some uncertaintly on the Apple side as to whether Apple computers spawn cults, or whether cult driven people adopted Apple devices as cult objects. Particularly since Apple came onto the social scene at approximately the same time as Geeks and Nerds. Cultism may have been driven by both the introduction of Apple and the propensity for higher education to produce strangely scientifically oriented social misfits.
In the case of the Ricoh, the name has much to do with it's cult status, being an unusual sounding name, for a rather odd looking electronic device. With the advent of the modular lens mount-sensor driven design it's very natural for that camera to have transitioned over from traditional devices to cult obsessed acquisition by people who predominantly:
1) wear Birkenstocks and socks together particularly black, sometimes Argyle wool.
2) drive Saabs (I have three)
3) Use those little eyeglass retention straps
4) Detest Microsoft vociferously and only use Apple products.
5) most often wear horizontally striped T shirts, and Plaid Knee length shorts, or Khaki Cargo pocket shorts.
NO RICOH FOR YOU!!! attributed to the "soup nazi"
It's the optics above everything. Superb. And....
I do hate all of the below.
1) wear Birkenstocks and socks together particularly black, sometimes Argyle wool.
2) drive Saabs (I have three)
3) Use those little eyeglass retention straps
4) Detest Microsoft vociferously and only use Apple products.
5) most often wear horizontally striped T shirts, and Plaid Knee length short, or Khaki Cargo pocket shorts.
I have never used such a camera.
Leica has a "cult following", but Ricoh may have a "mini-cult" following.
paulfish4570
10-02-2011, 19:01
kuzano, that is an absolutely hilarious post.
Raid, i think the cult mostly is in japan. but i only know what i read on the 'net ... :)
Moriyama Daido himself gave a short report at a TV show here in Japan about how useful this small camera is for photography in the streets and how he uses it instead of the former film-version ...
a10101100
10-02-2011, 19:14
oh, interesting - and i always thought it was the film counterparts i.e. GR1/s/v and the GR21s (oh boy they are pricey!) with the cult statuses.. the glass, the handling, the sheer size and weight (lack of it rather :) )
didnt know about the GRDs.. interesting.. and probably worth exploring :) or i should just remain contented with my simple GR1.
beautiful results, thoughtful design, very well made....
Mostly because Ricoh's (film) GR1 series had a (well-deserved) cult status. I don't think the digital GRD line is as outstanding as the GR1v was in its day, however, starting with the small-sensor handicap.
umcelinho
10-02-2011, 19:45
ive never had a grd, but had a gx100, which has pretty much the same handling, and it was by far the best handling/ergonomics i have ever seen in a compact. everything is where it should be and felt so natural. its only flaw was the bad high iso performance, at 400 image quality was so-so already...
jonmanjiro
10-02-2011, 19:57
what i have read so far indicates the cult sprang forth in japan. i've looked at a couple of sites/blogs by grd photographers. lots of interesting images, but could the photos not have been made with something else?
i like the looks of the series very much, by the way, but i have not handled one. with that in mind, the grd iv is on my short list for a possible digital camera purchase ...
i often think the same thing about leica :D
i have a grd3. it has the same sensor as used in several other P&S digital camera, so yes photos made with it could (in most cases) be made with something else. but the grd3 feels just right in the hand, and does what i want it to perfectly. its the camera i have in my bag right now. no problems with it so far.
paulfish4570
10-02-2011, 20:07
well, i just need to handle one someday. they LOOK like they can dance on one's fingers.
kuzano, that is an absolutely hilarious post.
Raid, i think the cult mostly is in japan. but i only know what i read on the 'net ... :)
Thanks Paulfish... some days the brain just goes whacky and I have to write it down.
I'm pretty much just a victim of the "Three Saabs", not the rest. Thanks for reading it in the manner in which it was intended. I'm a product of the sixties. Cults have formed throughout the existence of humanity, but the 60's were a special peak period.... VW buses, weed, communes, trips to Canada, and all!!!
well, i just need to handle one someday. they LOOK like they can dance on one's fingers.
That is when I got mine, when I handled one that belonged to a friend of mine who works for a big newspaper. The small sensor is a handicap only if you let it be. The images from the grd3 are stunning and the color rendition is gorgeous. If there is a cult, it's because of the look of the images. I use DSLR and also LX3 and NEX, all professionally, and all I can say is the Ricoh is a very special little tool.
Liquid-Sky
10-02-2011, 21:45
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6018/6197420592_8fb57b0b5b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/liquidsky1/6197420592/)
Ricoh gr1v / Ektar 100
i do own both, film & digital. If you live in cramped cities 28mm is quite useful. These are superb designed cameras and the lens is great, i mainly use the film one though!
As for reliability of film Ricohs, all I can say their SLRs are working for me from day one. One compact Ricoh acted up but I suspect that were because of combination of two heavy AA cells and flimsy battery compartment door, leading to intermittent contact. Two digital low-end Ricohs ended up in parts bin, but they were old, about ten years. Now tell me if other digital cameras are supposed to be user cameras after ten years? Recently I had idea to get Fuji compact with Super CCD of generation before phenomenal F30, and you know, all offers I have seen state they have defects. I simply don't expect digital compact to have lifespan like a film camera. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd go only for new GRD, or buy shortly used but not abused one from a person I'm fimiliar to and have a month of evaluation period.
Archiver
10-02-2011, 23:22
A couple of nights ago I pulled out my copy of Stray Dog of Tokyo and watched some of the DVD. The way Daido Moriyama strolls about, taking photos of anything that takes his fancy, is very inspiring.
The GRD III is a superb small sensor camera and the benefits come from the handling, feel, and the images. I have not held any other digital camera that melds with your hand in the same way. The menus and buttons are almost infinitely customizable and it even gives you the option to turn off the Power button light. And the files have a surprisingly rich feeling even though they come from a small sensor. Lightroom does a super job with the files, too.
If the performance of the GRD IV is a lot better than the III's, I might be tempted to get one in the coming year.
Mind you, the GXR and 28mm aps-c module has replaced the GRD III for most of my shooting applications. The richness of the files is truly a level or two above, essentially giving DSLR quality in a compact camera. But I still use the GRD III when I want something small, light and very discreet.
Cult object status is most often attained when a loyal following for any object is adopted, comprised of people who:
1) Wear socks and birkenstock sandals or shoes together.
2) Drive Saabs
3) Use those little straps behind their heads that connect to the earpieces of their glasses
4) Use only Apple computers.
5) most often wear striped T shirts with Plaid knee length shorts, Or khaki cargo shorts.
There is some uncertaintly on the Apple side as to whether Apple computers spawn cults, or whether cult driven people adopted Apple devices as cult objects. Particularly since Apple came onto the social scene at approximately the same time as Geeks and Nerds. Cultism may have been driven by both the introduction of Apple and the propensity for higher education to produce strangely scientifically oriented social misfits.
In the case of the Ricoh, the name has much to do with it's cult status, being an unusual sounding name, for a rather odd looking electronic device. With the advent of the modular lens mount-sensor driven design it's very natural for that camera to have transitioned over from traditional devices to cult obsessed acquisition by people who predominantly:
1) wear Birkenstocks and socks together particularly black, sometimes Argyle wool.
2) drive Saabs (I have three)
3) Use those little eyeglass retention straps
4) Detest Microsoft vociferously and only use Apple products.
5) most often wear horizontally striped T shirts, and Plaid Knee length shorts, or Khaki Cargo pocket shorts.
NO RICOH FOR YOU!!! attributed to the "soup nazi"
Thanks for such a funny post :)
http://holisticvisibility.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/soupnazi.jpg?w=300
zwarte_kat
10-03-2011, 01:33
From what I know:
The Gr1 series was already popular in Japan before digital, partly because of photographers like Moriyama Daido. A lot of Japanese people like stuff to be small, especially in Tokyo where living and storing space is rather tight. And the Gr1 is of course a great 35mm compact. Those were also times when people didn't pixel peep the images on their computer and looked more at style and substance.
Now I notice here in Tokyo that the GRD is very popular amongst pro photographers as their compact spare time camera. They have a very zen like approach to their hobby photography, almost the complete opposite to their detailed, strictly rule based professional work, which is understandable, I think. The GRD is nice for this, with macro function, nice black and white styles, and accessible, non DSLR controls.
You'll find many photographs here of just one detail of a fence, or an empty street with one bicycle in it etc.
Interestingly, in Tokyo they don't shoot too much street style in discrete (spy) fashion. I think this is being seen as voyeurism, and is actually being done a lot with mobile phones in the train, trying to get under girls' skirts.
I have also noticed that a lot of girls who work in the design related industry (huge in Tokyo) have one. Perhaps they saw cameramen using one or talked with them. Or maybe being from a design background the prefer it's design over the flashy Nikon Canon point and shoot camera's, which are often advertised in plenty of bright (pink) colors.
I have it too, and I like it :)
It's surprising what you can do with a 28mm fast lens that can focus as close as you want.
I don't wear glasses (perfect eyesight) or have a driver's licence, but I do use apple products (not that crappy phone, though), and I really like thick woolen socks! I'll wear whatever I can get cheap or for free, and often look ridiculous.
ruby.monkey
10-03-2011, 02:38
They're utter rubbish and I would never carry one with me at all times, nor consider it worth kitting out with a Leica 28mm finder. Nope, not me.
jbielikowski
10-03-2011, 02:43
"oh it look so cute" what the girls say, every time :D
Snap Mode is the key, its damn faster than anything and you get DOF from 1.5m to infinity @f/2.4.
Owned since november 2010.....I've got a Canon S90 too....
Pics don't look better, but the camera handle the right way as a "real camera" so I prefer it above the Canon: this one seems a toy.....when I'm using the GRD (III) I feel like I'm really taking photos.....
That's all.
dave lackey
10-03-2011, 02:58
If you like huge DOF, it is a good camera, but just a small sensor digital camera, nothing more. I believe Jon uses one from time to time and for that it is fine. If you are a bokeh nut/OOF fanatic/etc. it is not the one to use for that.:)
Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed using my D40 and was able to be somewhat creative in professional use with it. But it was limited and I needed to move on. You can buy a great D40 for less than $300. It will almost fit in your pocket with a 50mm 1.8. But, like all Nikon, that stupid hand grip makes it a FAT arsed camera.
Owned since november 2010.....I've got a Canon S90 too....
Pics don't look better, but the camera handle the right way as a "real camera" so I prefer it above the Canon: this one seems a toy.....when I'm using the GRD (III) I feel like I'm really taking photos.....
That's all.
I read S90 owners order custom made grip to enhance handling. What do they (Canon etc.) think, making capable but not cheap camera with ergonomics of brick of soap?
jsrockit
10-03-2011, 04:33
Snap Mode, 28mm lens, and Small Sensor = Great Street Camera
I love the work of Moriyama, he still uses one with tri-x!
paulfish4570
10-03-2011, 05:14
thanks again, guys.
kat, i especially appreciate your in-depth comment ...
silverbullet
10-03-2011, 05:59
A short time in my hands and having me adapted to the 28mm the Ricoh worked fine.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36573929@N00/sets/72157623097883441/
Analyzing the GRD promoshots of Michel Comte last year it was clear that he used mainly the GRD with F1.9 to minimize the DOF and to catch light in dim locations. Try google.
paulfish4570
10-03-2011, 06:55
this little cam seems to set shooters free ...
Michael Markey
10-03-2011, 07:00
this little cam seems to set shooters free ...
That about sums it up for me Paul.
I find that I can get shots with the GRD that I`d find to be more difficult with an M.
One handed operation , snap focus ....
paulfish4570
10-03-2011, 07:07
the first three in the grd series do not have image stabilization. has that been an issue?
I have no qualms about shooting the GRD3 wide open. So, between the f1.9 aperture and the 28mm focal length, I never felt that lack of image stabilization was a problem.
nightfly
10-03-2011, 08:01
It's the only digital camera I didn't hate and return or sell.
Although I thought the files on the original GRD were crap and didn't look like grain but noise, the GRD 3 is much improved and produces really nice photos. They don't look brittle and digitally like most other compacts which must be due to some choices Ricoh made since it shares the same sensor as everything else has. The lens does have distortion but not the unacceptable amount that most other compacts do at the wide end.
From what I've seen of Moriyama's work (quite a bit, much of it in person), it's great when he's shooting black and white film and really bad when he shoots color or digital unless there is some newer stuff I haven't seen.
The GRD just works. You can make it do what you want and get out of your way. For me that means aperture priority, mostly leave it at 1.9 and set the shutter button to auto focus if pressed half way or just shoot in snap mode if jammed down in one motion. That covers 90% of what I want a small camera to do. Process the RAWs in Lightroom and done.
paulfish4570
10-03-2011, 08:25
the grd and x100 - upon reading y'all's opinions and seeing y'all's photos - seem to come closest to what i experience with my iiif. it is not a matter of shape or size or weight or lens, but of attitude ...
It's all about the handling...
Designed by photographers for photographers. Magnesium chassis. Wears in well, kind of like a treasured baseball glove with all of the scars of its use.
First generation GR-D with in-camera jpeg B&W processing is what earned it cult status.
Michael Markey
10-03-2011, 09:48
the first three in the grd series do not have image stabilization. has that been an issue?
I`ve not found it so .
Thanks for such a funny post :)
And THANK YOU... for Scarlett. Nice!
BillBingham2
10-03-2011, 12:49
My shinny headed friend......
First off we have better cookies than any of the other P&S cameras (secret recipe on page 22 1/8 of each manual).
I've owned an R-1 (the film camera that started the line years back), GRD-I, GX-100 (kissing cousin with like handling and a zoom lens) and now a GRD-III.
While user-interface (the way the controls work and can be configured to work) has been touted as one of it's best features it's closely followed by the build quality. I would not call it heavy but rather solid. If can be carried with ease in any of my pants pockets and even in a dress shirt pocket. The control-ability of the GRD is simple. Not so easy that you loose access to important features, but elegant and configurable to each user. I may think that ISO is the most important feature that I change most often, I can make that the first item of four in my easy access list that I control through the wheel on the back.
I really like the hotshoe on the top. It allows me to use a black metal CV bright line finder for times I do not want to use the LCD in the back. Having used LF cameras with ground glass and a few with viewfinders I have a hard time accepting chimping. I look at it as using an expensive fancy small ground glass. It makes the camera function very well is all sorts of cold and get some very unusual looks.
Some people really push the edges in IQ, right now I don't. I was happy with my GRD I and now I'm even happier with the GRD III.
Why is there a cult, you need to pick one up and hold it. When I picked up an M for the first time it felt like a solid camera, sturdy without being too heavy. The GRD line feels the same to me. Not the same as an M, but damn sturdy for a P&S digital. It has a feel that it should cost half again or twice as much.
Ricoh has not taken the GRD line down the path with the feature of the month club that Canon, Nikon and others have. They have another line for that. There seems to be a serious group of folks somewhere deep within Ricoh that love photography and make products for the rest-of-us (old Apple Computer Reference, no I do not own Burkinstocks, I wear Crocks!).
I too have been thinking about building a flash adapter for my GRD but as work has not been stable there hasn't been time.
Do you need the image stabilization, I don't know. I'm kind of a purest geek and would rather use my skills to get a good shot. I know too much about programing and wonder what compromises are being made in the algorithms.
As I mentioned above, I’ve had a GX-100 and it’s close to as good handling that is the GRD series. It was my family carry camera as having a zoom was fun handy. It is a well thought out camera, just a tiny bit bigger than the GRD. Same battery that if you have both is handy.
I have to admit that I never really warmed up to 28mm till I got the GRD I. Rather a strange the same thing happened with a 50mm and the Nikon S2. The Ricoh glass is REALLY REALLY good stuff.
Speaking of algorithms, I'm not sure if Apple has OS support throughout their software. I've never seen Ricoh on any list as supported, though I can see my RAW shots fine on my MacMini.
If you lived near by I would bring mine over for you to play with. You can rent them from PopFlashPhoto. It might be the only way for folks like us (who do not live in NYC or LA) to hold one and try it. Tony is a great guy, I've purchased both my GRDs from him.
I believe that Ricoh just purchased Pentax Imaging Systems and so I’m waiting to see if they come out with next. They have access to some lens mounts that have TONS of “older” but great glass for it. They have the Leica M mount module that is producing some world class results out so there is hope that they can do the Pentax family of mounts and then perhaps move to others (Nikon F, Olympus and Canon). I have not tried the GXM system, for what I am shooting these days the GRD suits me fine.
I should take a shoot of my GRD III next to my wife’s old Kodak Pocket 20, they are pretty close in size.
Hope all is well. And yes, the taste of our cookies is much better than the others.
B2 (;->
Viktor Sebastian
10-03-2011, 12:59
My GRD I developed the lens fault issue. So I threw it out. But when I had it I loved it. I have been thinking about perhaps buying a GRDIII again, and hopefully they have fixed some things.
paulfish4570
10-03-2011, 13:07
Bill, thanks for that in-depth comment.
Not to side-track this post, but does anyone find that the pictures in the GRD3 LCD look uninspiring? It's usually the other way around with other cameras (because you're looking at a post-processed photo on a small screen) but, with the GRD3, for some reason, they don't look all that good to me. I have to keep reminding myself it will look better on the screen or printed. Is it just me?
BillBingham2
10-03-2011, 13:46
I used it for composition and let the histogram tell me about exposure.
B2
Not to side-track this post, but does anyone find that the pictures in the GRD3 LCD look uninspiring? It's usually the other way around with other cameras (because you're looking at a post-processed photo on a small screen) but, with the GRD3, for some reason, they don't look all that good to me. I have to keep reminding myself it will look better on the screen or printed. Is it just me?
I agree, they are oversharpened IMHO, as You used a too heavy sharpenig-mask in photoshop .....so I use it only to check focus in review, for all the rest I took the viewfinder 21/28....
The feeling of the whole operation of taking a pic is the closest thing to taking a pic with a film camera I've ever done......
PS: as usual, hope my english is good enough to explain what I mean....:o
In the Point-N-Shoot Forum on RFF there is a thread for GRD pictures, of which the first two or three pages of which are outstanding. In "response" someone started a similar thread for Leica M8/M9 pictures on the LUF — but the pictures there were largely pedestrian and the thread soon petered out. What does this say about the GRD-GRD3 cameras? Looks like they attract relatively good photographers, the reasons for which have, I think, already been well enumerated in this thread.
—Mitch/Manila
Paris au rythme de Basquiat (http://www.flickr.com/photos/malland/sets/72157625048893585/show/)
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