Need Toms 21mm Super- Elmar F3.4 review

[Mpmckenzie]

TOM we are all waiting to hear what you have to say, i know others feel the same way, we value your input,i cant keep hitting the refresh button to see if you have posted yet :bang: i know its only been a day:D

[Tom A]

I will be processing some stuff tomorrow - and shooting some more. need to mix up the Beutler too.
Probably by monday I hope.

[Tom A]

Decided to finish a roll of 400 Arista in aR3M with the Super Elmar 21f3.4 (I think I will call it SE 21f3.4 in the future!). Not scientific or "lens testy". Just wanted to see how it behaves.
First impression, slightly higher contrast than the Biogon 21f4.5 - but not excessive. Edge fall is visible in bright sun (and stopped down to f11/f16) but modest. Sharpness is good, even very good. @ f3.4 and f4 - it is remarkably even across the image-area ( as born out by the MTF curves). It is a worthy successor to the SA 21f3.4!
Ergonomics are excellent. Easy to use the aperture ring. The nifty hood is nice as it "extends" the barrel a bit and gives you a better grip - it sits in the palm of your hand very comfortably.
Is it better than the old SA 21f3.4 or the ZM Biogon 21f4.5? Dont know in exact numbers (MTF/Lpmm/ etc - but it is certainly up there among the really, really good lenses for a M-mount.
None of the shots so far were done to check distorsion - need a tripod for that.
Is it worth close to $3000 - well, I dont know. I dont think it is twice or three times better than a ZM Biogon 21f4.5 - they are both superb lenses. It is all a matter of choice.
I took the plunge as ANY lens which is 21f3.4 is interesting to me ( I have used SA 21's since 1964) and it is almost 6 years since I last bought a new Leica lens.

If you check our Flickr and use the tag "Leica Super Elmar 21mm f3.4" - there should be 10-11 shots up now. More to come with the PanF+ - but probably not for a day or two (need to mix up some developer etc).

[fixbones]

Thanks for that Tom.
Always nice to hear you talking about lenses esp 21mm since we all know that you area wide junkie!!
Looking forward to more :)

[Mpmckenzie]

Thanks Tom for a quick insight

[noimmunity]

Thanks, Tom.
I am surprised it has higher contrast than the ZM C Biogon.
Based on the limited number of shots at the resolution available so far, I'd prefer the Elmar 24/3.8 to the Super Elmar 21/3.4.

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6064/6138535831_572ddd6856_z.jpg

Simon taught me how to post images - 1 st attempt worked too!!!
This is the 21 Super Elmar, Arista 400 in D96.

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6189/6160866645_d6d4f506a5_z.jpg

The Super Elmar 21mm f3.5, stopped down to about f11. PanF+ in Beutler 1:1 for 10 min.

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6189/6159965899_d5575e86c8_z.jpg

Super Elmar 21mm f3.4 @ 3.4
Pan F+ Beutler 1:1 10 min

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6183/6160477452_0b92d535cc_z.jpg

Nice display in a hair saloon - 21f3.4 Elmar @ 3.4
Pan F+, Beutler 1:1 10 min

[fixbones]

Those shot at f3.4 are very very nice!

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6086/6159014617_7555cb03e6_z.jpg

Now when I have figured how to upload (thanks to Simon a.k.a. Simonsawsunlight) I can at least put up some samples of shots.
This is strong backlight - very good flare suppression. Pan F+ and beutler 1:1/10 min

[35mmdelux]

Nice work, Tom. Many thanks -

[kosta_g]

great work tom. you make it a very attractive lens! (visually...not price-wise!

[tj01]

Actually, thank you Simon.

[Fotohuis]

Wow, I think I have to look at this Leica Elmar 21mm lens too. Maybe the price is in Germany / Solms / Kassel /Paderborn not too bad and within two weeks I have to go to the Paderborn Fine Art forum too.

http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13977

Info about the fine art forum:

http://www.fineartforum.info/programm-faf-2011


Best regards,

Robert

[Rayt]

These current Leica lenses have really high contract, too much for my taste. Thanks for saving me money Tom!

[vb_vmb]

thanks Tom, this is most awaited one, pl upload a few more pics of 'low light' conditions if possible, thanks again in advance
vinod

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6151/6162669499_7322e70472_z.jpg

M6 Millennium with the Super Elmar 21f3.4

[Tom A]

Size comparison between the Super Elmar and the Super Angulon. The SA 21 sits much deeper inside the body - but the hood is bigger. The Super Elmar is more comfortable in the hand. The short "Tube" at the beck if the hood extends the barrel a bit and lets it rest in the hand. It also has a much improved aperture ring - compared to the SA which is very close to the hood flange and difficult to access.
Just found out that you cant remove the image adress without loosing the image!!!!

[vb_vmb]

great , thanks for comparison shot, TOM do you find, it has more contrast than SA, how is the details in blowups ?
vinod

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6162667731_444947f296_z.jpg

Found it and reposted it. Caption as above.

[axiom]

bokeh....
how's the bokeh?

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88604&stc=1&d=1316449520
C Biogon

[Tim Gray]

Tom, if you want an easier way to post images from flickr, when you are on the photo page, click on the "Share" button above the photo. Then click on "Grab the HTML/BBCode". Select BBCode and the size (medium or large) and then copy the code in the box. Just paste that right into RFF. Doing it this way has the added advantage that we can click on the picture on RFF and go to your flickr page.

[Tom A]

Tim, thanks for the info - at the moment the way Simon taught me seems to work and when it comes to computer I am a luddite. Will try your way sometimes later.
Tom

[Tim Gray]

As long as we get the pictures, I'm happy :)

[Fotohuis]

Tom, This is the easiest way to "upload" a picture in any forum. If you choose the format, all sizes and then properties (right mouse click) you can put this "link" in the IMAGE. [ http:// ....... jpg ] Super simple and fast. It saves a lot of time.

Greetz,

Robert

[MCTuomey]

It's only a matter of time before people say the same thing about the SE 21/3.4 ASPH that's said about the 'lux 50 ASPH:

" ... the best small format lens ever made in that focal length ... "

It's down to taste whether one likes it, but in terms of resolution and consistency across the frame at all apertures the SE 21/3.4 ASPH is jaw-dropping judging from its mtf chart.

Edit: If the C-Biogon 21 and SE 21/3.4 ASPH's mtf charts were superimposed, they'd be very close indeed, too close to call. For film shooters, it's great to have the c-biogon alternative at zeiss prices.

[Turtle]

Exactly. I like my 24 lux more than any other wide I own for the look of its images, but its MTF is far weaker than, say, my 21 biogon.

It's only a matter of time before people say the same thing about the SE 21/3.4 ASPH that's said about the 'lux 50 ASPH:

" ... the best small format lens ever made in that focal length ... "

It's down to taste whether one likes it, but in terms of resolution and consistency across the frame at all apertures the SE 21/3.4 ASPH is jaw-dropping judging from its mtf chart.

[Tom A]

It is interesting to go back and look at stuff shot with the C Biogon and compare to the Super Elmar. The differences - if there is one is very small. They are both lenses that are about as good as we would ever need. I suspect that it is more "brand" loyalty than anything that will determine which one you get. The C Biogon is a bit more compact - the Super Elmar a bit better "handling".

[Tim Gray]

It is interesting to go back and look at stuff shot with the C Biogon and compare to the Super Elmar. The differences - if there is one is very small.

That's what I wanted to hear. The other difference is that I already own a C Biogon, so I'll stick with it.

Actually it looks like the Biogon vignettes a bit more, but has a bit less distortion. I'm ok with both of those things for now :) If I ever go digital, I guess I'd think about swapping for the Super Elmar to avoid the issues the Biogon has on the M9.

[sepiareverb]

You make this very tempting Tom- and as I have the G-Biogon 21 for 2.8 work the Elmarit-ASPH may not stay in the fold....

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6172692328_edbbcf133d_z.jpg

Leica Super Elmar 21mm f3.4. Arista Premium 400 in D96. Leica M6

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6162/6170839083_fe73afe31d_z.jpg

Leica Super Angulon 21mm f3.4 (late version 1979), Leica M2, Arista Premium 400, D96.

[Tim Gray]

Wow the Super Angulon photo has a lot more contrast. Is that a scanning thing or what?

Tim, this is Vancouver in the fall! The time it took to switch cameras - the light changed! I do suspect that the SA is a bit more contrasty - but further test's are required! There are a handful of rolls of Tech Pan sitting there waiting for some better light - that should tell us.

[J. Borger]

Thanks Tom.
Just what i needed to jump with confidence on a minty 21/3,4 Super Angulon. Prefer the older Leica lenses in all focal length. No exception here.

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6172694454_11040c08ed_z.jpg

The Super Elmar 21 at 5.6 or thereabouts. Virtually no edge fall off - even across the whole imagefield. Focus is on the edge of the first cedar. I like the "edge" on it. Arista Premium 400 in "homebrewed" D96 for 7.5 min.