View Full Version : big mistake? mat 124g
back alley
09-11-2005, 12:57
it's cold and windy here this weekend and i just don't have myself mentally prepared for winter shooting yet.
so, i'm in a pissed off mood and even the dog is staying away from me. :mad:
i look around for something to shoot (with a camera) and nothing looks the least bit interesting.
i'm thinking i should play with the yashicamat as it's just been sitting since it arrived, maybe 2 weeks ago. :eek:
i load in some ilford fp4, set it up on my borrowed shakey tripod and roam the house.
nothing... :bang:
after thinking a bit i decide i need another shot of one of my canon p's with a 35mm lens on it.
hey, c'mon, i don't have ANY medium format shots of the canons... :p
i have problems focussing, i keep moving the camera in the 'wrong' direction for framing, and i don't care for the bending over the camera too much either.
this could have been a mistake...
joe
You just have to get used to this 'different' machine. I had the same in the beginning. Took me a few films before I got the hang of it. Wait until you get the negs out of their soup!
wlewisiii
09-11-2005, 13:03
It is a camera that takes getting used to. Do you have a neverready case? Try using the neck strap instead of a tripod at first to get used to seeing upside down and backwards. Just look down through it for awhile practicing framing things.
It will reward you though, if you stick with it, especially those 6x6 negs. It's still the only camera I regret selling.
Good luck!
William
back alley
09-11-2005, 13:06
save your money william...
I tried one of those things a long time ago. I could never get used to it, everything was upside down or the wrong way round. I did like the waist-level view though, that was nice. A pity really because the neg area is so big. Now though you can buy something like a Bronica and get the big neg with a rangefinder... :)
back alley
09-11-2005, 13:43
maybe another mamiya 6...
Joe, stay away from a LF view camera. The image is also upside down! LOL :D
If you can pat your head while rubbing your stomach in a circle, you're a perfect candidate for a TLR. Otherwise, stick with The Force ...
Gene
There is a TLR disposal facility near my house if you get too upset with it.
Three Canon Ps and looking for #4. Yeah, change should come easily. :)
back alley
09-11-2005, 15:58
Three Canon Ps and looking for #4. Yeah, change should come easily. :)
lol!
big belly laugh from that one rover!
gene, i can't do that!!
guess it's the force for me.
seems my eyes were bigger than my format...
joe
A tip for backwards framing. You really do get used to it, and I and others have reported going backwards when using a viewfinder or prism'd camera. Just remember - if the object is moving it still moves in the direction it's facing. The front of the car is still the front and that's the direction it's traveling.
Bertram2
09-11-2005, 17:29
i
i have problems focussing, i keep moving the camera in the 'wrong' direction for framing, and i don't care for the bending over the camera too much either.
this could have been a mistake...
joe
Joe,
our life is built on compromises and if you want a compact, robust and cheap MF Reflex machine you must take a TLR with a waist level finder.
You will get used to the reversed pic on the screen as 95 percent of all TLR beginners do. It needs a bit of patience, as each new system needs. On a LF screen the reversed pic is turned top down additionally nonetheless still people take nice photos with those beasts.
The TLR has it's weak points as all other systems have weak points, and it is not good for everything, same as all other systems are not 100% versatile. That's why thes exist side by side
The reverse finder is not the real weak point, worse is that you need enuff light to compose and focus properly, it is no lowlight system, for low light the integrated sports finder works good.tho with a preset focus. Too bright can be bad too, if the sun is more or less directly above your head and shines into the finder, nothing to see then.
Hope you used the screen loupe for focussing ? No precision without it.
Regards,
Bertram
ChrisPlatt
09-11-2005, 17:48
I know the feeling!
I have tried a TLR twice myself, but to no avail.
Expensive, this "trying" business.
Oh well, never again...
Excelsior, you fathead!
-Chris-
Hi Joe,
Your message struck me. I've just bookmarked half a dozen Yashica Mat 124's on eBay. That was before reading your message. I've been looking at them because they are a cheap medium format camera with good build quality. A friend of mine loaned me a Mamiya RB67 -- do you know that camera? It has a ground glass focusing screen and a magnifier loupe. As Betram says, the magnifier is essential for focusing. With my eyes, I have to hold the camera a foot or so from my eyes to see the image. But I like having the ground glass for composing. It's like a static picture rather than the fluid picture through a viewfinder. Then I bring it up close to use the magnifier for focusing. Then back down for the final compose and snap. It' s time-consuming but I found it enjoyable. Anyway I have three rolls at the lab and will see how I did. The Mamiya focusing screen is a reverse (mirror) image. It is awkward at first, like moving a slide around under a microscope in the opposite direction you think you should be moving it. But after the first roll I started adjusting. Give the Yashica one more chance.. then post it here! :)
Joe, take the TLR outside to do some shooting with it. That'll be easier. Wait until you process those MF negatives again!
There's no doubt about it: a TLR is a very different beast from other cameras. What worked for me was taking the camera around for a day or so unloaded just so I could get used to the controls. For me, the bigger hurdle was working without a meter in the camera. Don't give up yet, Joe, the time invested in learning the camera will be well worth it.
Richard Black
09-11-2005, 18:29
As an owner of a Rolleiflex, Mamiya Sekor C330f, Yashica Mat 124, and a Pentacon 6tl that can be used with a waistlevel finder as well as an Exakta VX2a, I have become familiar with this point of view. Sometimes I wish the Bessa R had a waistlevel viewfinder. You can be unnoticed with them because you are looking down and not at the people you are taking pictures of. When I take portraits or wedding shots, the camera is mounted on a tripod and after framing it, I stand beside the camera and take to the folks until I get the look I want. Useful tools for studied photos!! Now for action or low light, not so easy to do; however, if it was my only camera then use the sportsfinders or get a pentaprism for them. Can you tell, I like them.
Richard,
I feel just the same - I'm even thinking about getting some SLR with WLF, like a Praktica FX2 or something similar, because I like that way of viewing.
Using a WLF has become so natural to me, that I consistently move my Canon digital into the wrong direction when using it at waistlevel with the fold-out screen - I wished there was a way to reverse the image on that one... ;)
joe,
a TLR does not belong on top of a tripod, just like a rangefinder... But it is true, it takes a bit of practice to get used to WLF viewing; would not want to miss it, though, I love composing on that big screen, I love not having the camera between me and people, and I love the square format . I definitely take different pics when using the TLR - more static, graphically composed ones, not as dynamic as those with a rangefinder - and I think this is not only due to the differences in handling, but also the format - the square is more balanced, harmonious, static, the rectangle more dynamic...
Roman
PS: Gene, hey, I can do that, and even after a few beers...
A friend of mine loaned me a Mamiya RB67 -- do you know that camera?
Yeah, the RB67 is probably the funnest camera I have right now. I rather enjoy its eccentricity, unfortunately I still do not have a good way of scanning the negs and end up having to get prints made. This was a combination of the totally manual operation, the waist level viewfinder, the BIIIG negatives. It's definately a 'different way of looking at the world' if you will. I kind of wanted a TLR and a folder before I got the RB. When I got the RB I had to have them. Folder needs bellows work, still dont have the TLR yet.
back alley
09-11-2005, 19:04
i have used medium format before, started with a mamya 645 and then moved on to the mamiya 6.
i love the square - getting used to a rectangle again was the biggest hurdle in going back to 35mm.
however...
if the mat works and i'll need to process the film before i know, i think it will go on sale here.
i don't really have a need to work in 2 formats and i'm not shooting enough as it is now.
i do this every time i start to really hate my stuff, i move to another format or quit shooting for a few years.
i need to discipline myself, pick up the canon and set some projects in motion.
joe
SolaresLarrave
09-11-2005, 19:31
Give it a chance, joe. I use my Mamiya C220 only during the summer because of the big landscapes I get to make with it.
You can probably carry yours through nasty winters if the meter is dead. And use only sunny 16! :)
back alley
09-11-2005, 19:39
the meter works but it does not agree with my metrastar.
joe
Joe, a project (or at least a direction) is good, otherwise photography can seem pointless. Sometimes the effort of learning new hardware can open up some possibilities not before envisioned, but new gear can be an escape, too, from DOing.
I'm one of Bertram's 5% that can't seem to get happy with waist-level reversed viewing. I've used several TLRs but the worst for me was the little "baby" Rollei 4x4 because of the small focusing screen, and it was "tippy" to handle. Enough to make one seasick... The Mamiya C TLRs were the best, but both had the prism viewfinder. :) I will on occasion take the prism off a Pentax 6x7 for a low-angle view for instance, and then I'm again reminded that I don't like that reversal.
But I'd agree with the comment about using the strap, around your neck and adjusted to put the camera at your favored distance from the eye. Then apply a bit of downward force on the camera to get some steadying tension in the strap. That seemed to help me, anyway.
Trust that Metrastar!
back alley
09-11-2005, 20:56
i can't use a neck strap.
the smallest amount of pressure applied to my neck results in a massive headache.
i put a wrist strap on the mat for safety from dropping it.
joe
Maybe you can rig up something with equivalent support for the camera. Attach the neck strap to your suspenders? :p
Would a monopod with a quick-release mount (on a ball head) be any use?
Joe, I posted two photos taken with the 'Mat to your September theme project.
back alley
09-12-2005, 14:37
the cutest yashica hood showed up for the mat today.
the red filter will be next.
hoot, i'll take a look.
joe
i can't use a neck strap.
the smallest amount of pressure applied to my neck results in a massive headache.
Get a "birder's harness". It works more like a shoulder harness and doesn't even touch your neck.
back alley
09-12-2005, 15:08
do they come in 3x size?
:)joe
Get a "birder's harness". It works more like a shoulder harness and doesn't even touch your neck.Hmm, I didn't know what a birder's harness was, but a quick web search says it's actually a binocular harness. Is that what you meant? I found some photos of one here (click) (http://www.4scopes.com/binocular_harness.htm). It looks quite comfortable, but not very inconspicuous. I suppose in the winter one can wear a jacket over it.
Hmm, I didn't know what a birder's harness was, but a quick web search says it's actually a binocular harness. Is that what you meant? I found some photos of one here (click) (http://www.4scopes.com/binocular_harness.htm). It looks quite comfortable, but not very inconspicuous. I suppose in the winter one can wear a jacket over it.
Yup... that's it. And it does come in all sizes. I call it a "birder's harness" because they're about the only people I see who use them. I'll likely get a pair for my wife & I since we spend a lot of time birding also.
The only thing of value my father left me was his Yashicamat. I had it CLA'd with a view to using it, but nostagia or some other strange emotion overtook me, and I stuck with the 330f until I got fed up with lugging it around. The Yashicamat sits in the closet with a couple of sets of 'bits' to turn it into a 35mm - Joe that could be the perfect compromise! I found that with a prism on the top of the 330f you don't have to worry about "going backwards to Christmas across the Irish Sea". Of course you could always read "Alice in Wonderland" instead.
If you can pat your head while rubbing your stomach in a circle, you're a perfect candidate for a TLR.
If you can't, get the best TLR ever: a Minolta Autocord.
The focusing action is sooo much smooth and natural than the funny knob of Rolleis and similar cameras.
I had an autocord, liked it and sold it to fund a Rolleiflex GX hoping in an improvement :bang:, after ONE roll, I sold the GX back and got myself another autocord :D .
oftheherd
10-18-2005, 04:47
I missed this the first time around. I used to have a Yashica MAT 124 G and I loved it. Part of that was it was my first MF camera. Boy did I love those big negatives. That kept me from thinking too much about the fact that if I was going to print in rectangle, I wasn't getting the full 6x6, but even 645 was bigger than 35mm. The weight didn't bother me so much then as I still had a strong back to go with my weak mind. I would carry it and a 35mm kit around the mountains of Korean and was happy.
After I got the Mamiya Super Press 23, and found an even larger rectanglular negative, I haven't been able to enjoy a 6x6 again.
That said, you do get used to the reversed image. Or at least I did and most if not all people do. There is also the not much needed advantage that it can be held overhead to get around obstacles such as fences or people at parades. As I said, not much needed, but like a seldom used tool, nothing better when you do need it. I found the meter on mine to be spot on, but like any other cameras, you may find a stop difference between any two. I think that was never common, and perhaps even less common these days, but twenty to twentfive years ago, was accepted as an undesireable but acceptable possibility.
Have you developed any negatives from the 124 Mat? Have you changed you feelings about it? Of course, I realize this thread was before the heart episode, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts now. Unfortunate about straps bothering you. Is there any chance it was related to your health issue and that it might not bother you now? If no change, then a wider strap probably isn't going to help. I know a wide strap helps a lot with my Mamiya. It doesn't seem very heavy at all with a wide Yashica strap on it. Or maybe it is just that is is a Yashica strap? :D
How about an update Joe?
back alley
10-18-2005, 05:25
nothing to report...i sold it to a member here.
if i were to return to medium format i think i'd look at a mamiya 6 again.
joe
bmattock
10-18-2005, 05:28
I've got a couple of Bronica C SLR's with lenses, accessories, etc. But I love my Yashica 635, the backwards viewing thing doesn't seem to bother me. Sell you the Bronicas!
back alley
10-18-2005, 05:35
i know nothing about bronica bill but maybe in january...i'll do some research.
can you suggest any good websites?
joe
breakaway
10-18-2005, 05:55
i can't use a neck strap.
the smallest amount of pressure applied to my neck results in a massive headache.
i put a wrist strap on the mat for safety from dropping it.
joe
joe, that might be due to myofacial pain from what i've studied. you might want to let your doc know abt it? treatment for myofacial pain can be quick simple and relieving.
I like the way people resond more positvely when you use a TLR. Usually their not aware of it because it's not in your face aimed at them...its just at your waist their not threatning anyone. When they are aware of it their often pleased because they associate TLR's with professional photography as opposed eccentrics with a hobby. Besides its not backwards to me I see the world that way.
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