Italy in August - What film?

[KenRothman]

Ok, so I will be in Italy for about 2 wks in about 2 wks.

Going to be in Venice and northern part of the country... wine regions, etc.

I'm planning on shooting film, so need to decide what film i'm going to bring.

Probably going to carry two kits...

1. M6 classic with 35 cron type iv, 50 1.4 canon ltm, and 90 tele-elmarit.
2. F2AS (which i'm getting tomorrow) with 50 1.4 nikkor-s ai-converted and/or 50 1.8E, 105 2.5 nikkor-pc ai-converted, 200 f4 ai, and maybe 55 3.5 micro converted, and 35 nikkor-s 2.8 ai-converted.

I've been finding that i'm underwhelmed with the color results with my M6 and those lenses... probably mostly due to cheap film and cheaper processing. So the q for the Leica stuff is - color or b&w? I *love* the b&w results i get from that setup... but is that a shame for the colors of that country.

The Nikon stuff will definitely be color... and mostly schlepping it along for the longer lenses, and just to play with it.

What recommendations for film do you guys have?

Figuring speed ok to be anywhere between 100 and 400. So, b&w i've got under control - either tri-x, 400 c41 stuff, or whatever.

But i think i should be shooting color... and all of the consumer films, up thru reala, have not made me too happy.

So what, then? Ektar? Portra?

Would love to hear your opinions.

[raid]

I will be in the same region at the same time.
I suggest that you get some fresh color film by Kodak or Fuji.
Get Fujicolor Reala 100 or Kodak Ektar or similar.
Count on spending about $5-$7 per roll of film for a good quality film.
I love using Kodak 100UC. It may have been replaced by a newer type film now.

You don't need two systems with similar focal length lenses.
Do you have a back-up camera for the M6, like a Bessa T or similar?
Leave the Nikon stuff behind. Or, leave the Leica equipment here,and use the Nikon with another Nikon back-up.


Throw in some B&W film too. People photography looks better with B&W film.

I may take with me:
Leica M6 plus 35mm/1.4 Summilux for the dark interiors of churches and castles.
I must have the tiny and sharp CV 25mm/4 for the Alpine Road and lakes.
The third lens will be either a 50mm lens or a short tele. Maybe a Canon 50mm/1.5.
For details, I will take the Graflex XLSW with its 47mm lens and 6x8 negatives.
I hope to use it for street photography in Venice.

[KenRothman]

maybe i'll just keep it simple and carry the m6 with just the 'cron - loaded with b&w, and carry the nikon stuff for color

[scorpius73]

I went to Italy and shot film entirely on my honeymoon 2 yrs ago. I had an M6 and Zeiss Ikon ZI with Konica 28, 50, and 90mm lenses. I also had a Zeiss 35mm f2 Biogon lens. My color film was entirely Kodak 160NC and 400NC. The color was amazing. But don't go cheap on the processing. Enjoy your trip!

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi Ken,

For trips I usually use my RFs for B&W, and my Nikons (SLRs) for color... It's VERY nice to separate both systems for both kinds of film...

If you can use a different Nikon body, one with AE, you'll find it's a nice/better approach: you set ISO to +1 (say ISO200 with ISO400 film) and you just focus and shoot, and leave the metering thing for you RF...

Between Portra and Ektar (both wonderful films) I'd go for Portra for speed, real colors for post-processing, and for less exposure problems, as Ektar is a bit demanding in the exposure field...

With your 35, 50 and 105 lenses you'll have more than enough for the SLR...

Having the 105 for color, I wouldn't take with me the 90 for the M6: just the 35 and the 50... If you REALLY need long tele shots for B&W and not color, you can load B&W on your SLR as it works very well with the 105...

Personally I'd keep one camera in my hand: the M6 (B&W) with the 35, and the SLR (color) with the 50 ready to be used inside a bag or hanging from my shoulder...

This means you'd have with you two bodies and five lenses (it's a burden!) but the eight-nine lenses you mentioned are too much, really... You'll walk a lot in Venice: comfortable shoes and five lenses are a good idea...

A third or fourth of your rolls should be slow film, both in B&W and color, for wide open shooting...

You're right: don't go to Venice without color film... Enjoy it!

EDIT: Hey, I just saw you wrote a second post thinking more or less the same!


Cheers,

Juan

[nikon_sam]

maybe i'll just keep it simple and carry the m6 with just the 'cron - loaded with b&w, and carry the nikon stuff for color

Agree with above...

For film my first thought would be Ektar...I have some in 120 but haven't actually shot any BUT I like what I've seen of it...

Also, have you ever used a Polarizing Filter...

My Nikon FE was great with Velvia...;);)

[mathomas]

Ektar 100 has been my favorite film for color (both 135 and 120) since returning to film.

However, I just shot some Portra 160 in 120 and was happy with the colors from that, as well.

[taskoni]

If the weather is right, you might want to have some Velvia with you ;)

[Lilserenity]

I went to Tuscany a little bit more south from where you are going but the conditions in August will be much the same. To my mind shooting black and white in such a beautiful country doesn't make sense to my eyes but to each their own :)

Anyway, depends what result you want?

Saturated colour, or a lower contrast touch to it all?

If you want saturation, Ektar
If you want **** flexibility **** (note I didn't say low contrast) Portra

I took two types of film with me: Elite Chrome 100 because I wanted slides to project, which I backed up with Portra (new 160, new 400 and 800) for everything else I didn't necessarily feel the need to have a slide I could project, the slide film was not used necessarily for pictures where I wanted saturation, it was purely so I could project them.

Portra 160 is low saturation, low contrast, it is stunning stuff, I find the results were consistent in a way I could never always get with 160NC, it is beautiful stuff. The thing is if you're going to scan in the film, then Portra will allow you to create saturated results especially if you couple with a polariser.

The flexibility is in the exposure, I was shooting new Portra 160 pretty much the whole time (only one roll of 400 was used in the end, and even then I needn't have really, I expected it to last longer into the evening, in the end I burned it up in no time at all!) and in light where I expected a pretty rubbish result, but the latitude of the stuff is staggering. Also you can get the exposure wrong (unlike Ektar) and get a very usable picture.

Now this is not pimping my pictures (ok it is, no not really, or is it? :D) but here's what you can do with Portra 160 (and 400) -- admittedly my idea of saturation is not what others have so the punchy ones might be quite tame to some people's tastes:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5942222155_46bb201f72_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/5942222155/)
Portra 400 -- Fantastic latitude, moderate contrast, with added warmth

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6022/5932652595_545057bac8_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/5932652595/)
Portra 160 -- Deliberately kept this close to the input scan, low contrast, low saturation but with a bit of shadow warmth added

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6030/5941586360_fd315c0ac7_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/5941586360/)
Portra 160 -- Amped up saturation in the blues here, towards the direction of the blues I got in Kodachrome, not polarised either (or that would have been a deep cobalt-esque blue on a day like this was)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6146/5943523281_591a78fa6d_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilserenity/5943523281/)
Portra 160 -- Again amped up saturation with a kick of warmth but less punch in the blues to balance it all out, original scan's blues are similar but the bales are more like the Crete Senesi picture above the Duomo pic, I wanted warmth in this picture so a kick in the shadows of warm tones plus an increase in yellow and orange saturation whilst bringing the orange luminosity down a bit, and bob's your uncle -- a picture that could have been taken on Ektar.

(All 4 in 120 format, but 35mm is just as wonderful with these emulsions)

Anyway long post, but I can't speak highly enough of Kodak's professional C41 offerings. I'm not a stockholder or board member ;)

Vicky

[mfogiel]

Keep it simple and flexible: Tri X and Portra 400. As a rule, you can expose both at EI 200 - this will always be good for your chromogenic film, and in case of B&W, overexposing in harsh lighting will give you more shadow detail and longer tonal range.

[rionda]

When I'm not in Providence, RI, I live in Padua, Italy. In August, from 10am to 6pm, even 100 asa may be too fast for outdoor shooting. Be ready to step down your aperture, if your fastest time is 1/1000th. Inside some churches or at night, 400 asa may not be enough. Have fun. :D

[Sparrow]

Fuji superia 400 works well in the Mediterranean summer, 1/500 at f16 in the daytime with a stop to spare, and is just fast enough to be used indoors or at night

[KenRothman]

so i just picked up the F2... it's a beast. should be fun to play with.

i think i'm going to probably have to play it by ear... i mostly want to use the M6 due to its size and the awesomeness of the 'cron.

will also probably have to shoot color in it... but i'll prob bring some b&w too. but, i'm not against making things b&w in PP (lightroom). even though i shoot film, it's into a digital workflow.

maybe i'll get some velvia 50 if it's super sunny... the m6, as you know, only goes to 1/1000. the f2 to 1/2000.

would also like to have some 400 for "darker" times.

maybe i need to put the slow stuff in the nikon for day-time sightseeing, and then have the M6 loaded up with something faster for post-siesta evening stuff.

hmm... perhaps a plan coming together :)

if i could only afford that m9... sigh

[Gabriel M.A.]

I think this would be simplified by answering two more questions:

1) Do you prefer B&W over color?

2) During what time of day will you be shooting the most?



For 1): if you prefer B&W, then grab Tri-X; you can expose at various ISOs (don't mix in the same roll!); if you prefer color, then have a 1:4 ratio of rolls (i.e. 4 color rolls per each B&W roll)

2) Only matters if you prefer color. And if so: Fuji Reala, Velvia and UC 400


On a reasonably-not-cloudy day, you still have daylight at around 9-9:30 pm. If you'll be more interested in indoors (churches, monuments, etc) rather than outdoors, then bring more ISO 400 or 800 film with you. You already have the lenses.


And don't forget to enjoy!

[Juan Valdenebro]

Gabriel's recommendation on using Tri-X only for B&W is a good one: as he says, rate it differently depending on the light... Say 100-200 for direct sun, and 400-800 for soft light... And develop it for longer if the contrast was low, and for a shorter time if there was direct sun and high contrast...

Another color option: velvia is nice for direct sun without skins, but it can also be very helpful when there are muted colors under soft light, in absence of skins too... So a few rolls of Velvia are cool, as they promote wide open shooting too!

Negative color is a very advanced technology... Using Portra with an AE camera at +1 means a 100% of images with superb tone... Bring at least a small film camera for recording automatically the world in color... :) It's easy that way, so the biggest efforts are put on your B&W shooting... Best wishes for your trip!

Cheers,

Juan

[KenRothman]

I'm trying to avoid *also* bringing my EP-1 :)

My initial intention was to just bring the M6. But still on the fence about b&w vs. color.

there's no doubt i prefer *my own* shots when they're b&w... and i often will convert many of my color pix to b&w just b/c that's what i like better... but of course, they're never the same as native b&w. just worried i'll be missing on some beauty in italy.

i will be traveling around in a car, mostly, so i think i can have both kits with me and pick and choose.

just need to also buy and bring a few bricks of film too.

[Sparrow]

You will probably get clear skys most of the time so the first hour after sunrise is well worth the effort ... but it will be hot, well into the 30's in the daytime and even hotter in towns and cities

[Paddy C]

Keep it simple is always the best advice when travelling.

I think you should certainly take both B&W and colour film.

B&W: Given the time of year and intensity of the sun, I would probably bring my favourite 100 and favourite 400 (so for me maybe FP4 and Tri-X).

For colour (this is really personal opinion here) I would stick with colour neg. It's so good, so flexible. And I would only bring the new portras. Again, 160 and 400. My limited experience with Ektar has been both good and bad. I would need more time with that before relying on it. It absolutely requires perfect exposure and good processing.

[Koni Kowa]

My two cents : the Canon 50/1.4 LTM loves color as much as BW. I would suggest you to use some slides film like Ektachrome 100 Plus or Velvia 50. That's probably what I'll take when I go to Rome in october. :cool:

[ferider]

Next time I'll go to Tuscany, I'll take Velvia 50 and Neopan 400. Two different bodies for it, too. Interiors, evenings and outdoors during the day are just too different to cover with a single film for me.

If I had to pick a single film, it would be 400 ASA B+W, with filters, of course.

[KenRothman]

really leaning towards loading the M6 with tri-x and the F2 with something like the portra 160 and leaving it at that.

main reason for slower color with the F2 is the 1/2000 shutter speed. and the fact that i love the b&w stuff coming out of the leica.

whatever i do, i'm sure it will be fine.

as for filters... i don't really have any for the leica apart from uv. have a few for the 52mm nikons though... incl polarizer. of course it's from 1970... but light hasn't changed since then :)

[raid]

I would keep it simple. I keep on reminding myself on this fact each evening!
I will tonight explore the "deep insides of a refrigerator" to check out which type of film I have and which type I need to get quickly.

[WDPictures]

If you will be doing some shooting inside the churches or other architecture then high speed film will come in handy. During my Italy trip I shot some Delta 3200 (@ 1600) and Portra 800 inside with better success especially due to my slow f/4 lens. Exterior wise I used quite a variety of films mostly in the ISO 25 to ISO 125 range.

[KenRothman]

Now I have to find a bag to fit it all :)

[italy74]

Ken

whatever film you choose, keep in mind if you run out of rolls:

1) Ektar here is available mostly ONLINE and at certain places, yet you might not find them when you need it.
2) The new Portra 400 (and even more the newer Portra 160) are NOT found yet in Italy. As far as I know only ONE online shop has the 400 while I couldn't figure ONE having the 160 which I order from Germany or UK.
3) Unfortunately I won't be there in that period and that's just a pity. Also another member here contacted me to meet, but I'll be over 500 miles far from where you are and I'm very sorry about it. Just in case you would pass from Parma, I can spot for you the only lab I trust here around.

4) August should be HOT here; no idea in Venice yet most part of northern Italy is affected by great sultriness with temperature easily reaching and going beyond the 40°C perceived by the body.

5) If you go to Venice by car, be warned its parking places - outside the city - are among the most expensive in Italy (as is Venice in general), so if you have your hotel somewhere else, I'd reach it by train or boat.

[raid]

Dino,
I have done this twice so far; stay outside Venice,and take the public bus to Venice. I can observe Italians in their daily lives this way.

[Lilserenity]

Ken

whatever film you choose, keep in mind if you run out of rolls:

1) Ektar here is available mostly ONLINE and at certain places, yet you might not find them when you need it.
2) The new Portra 400 (and even more the newer Portra 160) are NOT found yet in Italy. As far as I know only ONE online shop has the 400 while I couldn't figure ONE having the 160 which I order from Germany or UK.


Hello,

I somehow managed to track down more Elite Chrome 100 in Florence, clearing out half their stock of it (I took one of their five packs!) and on their shelves there was Portra 400 (new) but no 160 (but at the time it had only just arrived in the UK by mail order so I was ready to cut slack) -- but this might be due to the place being Florence; I have no idea really.

But yes, stock up beforehand.

That said I didn't use all I took, I came back with about as much unused as I had used (17 rolls, around 18 unused.)

Vicky

[italy74]

Ciao Vicky,
while chromes are (strangely) still spread (aside myself I don't see anyone here asking for chromes to be developed, while I see plenty of negative and b/w rolls) it sounds really new to me that a local shop in Florence (which isn't il Fotoamatore which has NOT YET the new Portra) has the new film.
Moreover here stocks are full of 400NC