M9 memory write errors

[steelduck]

Has any of the M9 users seen this issue?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVaNXbN12KI

Occasionally if I press the view button while the M9 is still writing to the card (red led is blinking), the camera hangs for a minute or two. Then it seems to resume working. I can still view the pictures in the preview, but when I power off the camera all those pictures that where in the buffer and taken after the hangup are lost. They appear 0KB files on the card.

The same behavior happens on most of my SDHC cards. Two new Sandisk 8GB Ultra cards, Two new Lexar Pro 8GB cards. I always format my cards in the camera.

[Ben Z]

Occasionally if I press the view button while the M9 is still writing to the card (red led is blinking), the camera hangs for a minute or two.

Old Vaudeville joke, but very apt:

Patient to Doctor: Doctor, it hurts when I do this. What should I do?

Doctor to Patient: Stop doing it!

[Phantomas]

Stop doing it sounds like a great sollution. These cameras are not made to be used. Hopefully Leica will come up with an upgrade that let's you fondle the camera AND keep the pictures. Wonder how much extra that "luxury" would cost.

[Paul Luscher]

M9s not made to be used, Phantomas?

Piffle. Use mine. A lot. Works OK as far as I can see. I just don't do things like try to view pix while the card is still writing--on any camera I have.That'd be a little like jamming a car into gear while putting the pedal to the metal. The results aren't likely be good-and it wouldn't be the car's fault.

Like the guy said "If it hurts, don't do it." That simple.

[Phantomas]

I'm just surprised that problem exists. On my DSLRs I can view the photos the instant after they are taken. To me the fact that powering down the camera while buffering resulting in image loss sounds like a serious issue. I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much from a 5K+ camera...

[Gabriel M.A.]

Stop doing it sounds like a great sollution. These cameras are not made to be used. Hopefully Leica will come up with an upgrade that let's you fondle the camera AND keep the pictures. Wonder how much extra that "luxury" would cost.


Hopefully you get to install one of the *free* spell checkers available for either IE or Firefox.

And to own either an M8 or M9 one day so you know what you're talking/typing about.

[Gabriel M.A.]

I'm just surprised that problem exists. On my DSLRs I can view the photos the instant after they are taken. To me the fact that powering down the camera while buffering resulting in image loss sounds like a serious issue. I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much from a 5K+ camera...


Guy buys an expensive motorcycle.

1) forgets to put down a foot once it stops.

- "But, I never needed to do that with my Escalade! What a waste of money".


2) forgets that to accelerate, you must use the right hand

- "But, I always used my foot to do that with my Escalade! What a waste of money"


3) forgets that in a motorcycle, you can't use a bike rack

- "But, I always used to haul my bike with my Escalade! What a waste of money"


4) forgets that there is no spare tire on that expensive motorcycle

- "But, I always had room for my spare tire on my Escalade! What a waste of money"



5) forgets that there is no air conditioner on that expensive motorcycle

- "What a bunch of morons, they can't design a proper vehicle! I always had my air conditioner in my Escalade! What a waste of money"


6) forgets that there really isn't much room in the M8 or M9 for having the same kind of processing power as modern DSLRs

- "On my DSLRs I can view the photos the instant after they are taken. What a waste of money"

[doolittle]

forgets that there really isn't much room in the M8 or M9 for having the same kind of processing power as modern DSLRs



Not sure if room is the problem. Pocketable compacts and micro four third cameras seem to manage.

A potential cause of lost once in a lifetime photos is a big deal. For the moment, not doing it seems the best work around, however it does sound like something that could be addressed in a firmware update (even if it was just to stop the view button working while the file is writing).

[Gabriel M.A.]

Not sure if room is the problem. Pocketable compacts and micro four third cameras seem to manage.

How many of those shoot RAW? I have a Lumix GF1, and I have to wait for the image to be written to the card before I can inspect it. Hitting the "Play" button does nothing until that first file is completely written to the card.

The M8 is slower writing to the card of the same speed as the Lumix GF1; I can't attest to the M9 (anybody care to dump that piece of crud on a DHL box and send it my way?) :o



A potential cause of lost once in a lifetime photos is a big deal. For the moment, not doing it seems the best work around, however it does sound like something that could be addressed in a firmware update (even if it was just to stop the view button working while the file is writing).

I agree. Although, I've never experienced the issue described in the OP. I really wonder if the memory card has anything to do with the "hiccup" experienced with the properly-timed combination of issues described? This is something that QA (not manufacturing, but systems QA) would need to add to their testing plan.

But outright childishly dismissing this as a "paid too much for it to have this problem" gets (pardon the double-negative) nobody nowhere. To which you can only have juvenile counter-responses (like mine, purposefully above), because, really, the tone doesn't allow to move farther beyond that.

[Phantomas]

Hopefully you get to install one of the *free* spell checkers available for either IE or Firefox.

And to own either an M8 or M9 one day so you know what you're talking/typing about.


Thanks, but I'll pass on M8/9, mainly because when I part with such large sum of cash I expect a product to confirm to at least some standards set by the industry. I'm not asking for unattainable like a 9fps burst mode and not asking to "turn a motorcycle into a car". Simple things like a screen that is at least on par with current P&S models, a fact that I don't risk loosing images if I press play button, and a better high ISO would be nice too. Despite posting on RFF and enjoying rangefinder cameras hugely, I'm not the guy to blindly drop everything for a red dot. M9 looks like it could be a great camera, but there are some serious shortcomings that did not require miracles to implement. I very well understand what Leica is and that their pricing is not really relevant to their technical capabilities, but neither should they cut corners.

By the way, I just took P7000 (Nikon's compact) and shot RAW in continuos mode, pressed "play" straight away. Guess what :) You might want to revisit your statement about processing requiring much real estate rather than worry about one single typo.

If the QC is the issue and the problem lies with that particular camera, fine, happens to all manufacturers. But I've read several other cases of users loosing their images during buffering.


__________________

[steelduck]

The same thing happens sometimes even without pressing the play. I have set the camera to show the preview if I keep the shutter down, after taking the photo.

To everyone one who says don't do it: are you frigging serious??? Sheeez, fanboyism to the max! This is a bug that should not exist on 5000e camera.

[250swb]

To everyone one who says don't do it: are you frigging serious??? Sheeez, fanboyism to the max! This is a bug that should not exist on 5000e camera.

Sell it, no seriously, get rid of it as soon as you can. There are a lot of people who have grown up with the foibles of Leica's both film and digital, and plenty who have come late and adapted. But if you can't get across that gap to where the image is more important and mentally leave the foibles behind its not for you. Its not about fanboyism, which I think is a very insulting thing to say to knowledgeable people, or the price of the camera, but if you want your cake and eat it, don't buy a Leica.

To try and help you out by saying what usually helps for other people, well, obviously 'don't do it' is top of the list, but buy a fast SDHC card, try to stick to just saving DNG files rather than perhaps DNG + JPEG, and keep the auto review function off or set for just a second and all of which gives the camera's small brain less to do. Consider if your camera is faulty, because simple things work for the vast majority of users, you shouldn't need to get into the depths of computor lore to make it work for instance.

Maybe you have discovered something that money can't buy if you equate a 5000 Euro with Canon like operations, but if you are going to approach it with the 'my Canon doesn't do this' attitude you are just not going to enjoy using a Leica.

Steve

[steelduck]

My M6 works just fine as it should, but the M9 does not. I am shooting DMG only, The preview is off now and I ma using SanDisk Ultra and Lexar Pro cards. None of these " best practices" help. The camera has frozen a few times even without pressing the play.

During the last 4 weeks I have lost about 50 pictures. Should I just think this is normal Leica behavior not care that I cannot trust this camera to write my pictures to a memory card. Just part of the Leica experience.

The M9 has worked 10 months without a flaw and now after the firmware update everything has gone haywire. I have reloaded the firmware several times, I have tried 6 different new cards. I have read that several people have similar issues, so I am not sure if this is something that can be fixed or is this a bug in the software.

[Jim-st]

Is it under warranty? If so, I'd ring Leica and ask them to fix it.

My M8 used to have cut-out problems, but they fixed it (and gave extra 12 months warranty)

[thegman]

I don't have an M9, but it sounds like a bug to me, I think it's one thing to tolerate slow file writing, it's another to actually lose photos.

I'd talk to Leica, or maybe actually demo the issue in a Leica dealer somewhere if you can. I think any lost picture (assuming you don't yank the battery out or something) is a fault. Simply pushing a button whilst it's doing something should not break it.

[dubes]

Is it under warranty? If so, I'd ring Leica and ask them to fix it.

+1. Seriously, if any camera gave me the sorts of problems you're having, I'd be getting in touch with technical support and sending off for repair, not posting on Internet forums. And if all else fails, as Steve suggests, sell it. Life's too short to be fretting over unreliable equipment.

[Gabriel M.A.]

By the way, I just took P7000 (Nikon's compact) and shot RAW in continuos mode, pressed "play" straight away. Guess what :) You might want to revisit your statement about processing requiring much real estate rather than worry about one single typo.


A friend of mine has one. I've had it with me at the same time as the M8; I can see how the available volume for electronics in the M8 is smaller (mostly due to the sectioning/compartmentalization) than the Coolpix P7000.

It's vs. its is not a typo. Tihs is.


If the QC is the issue and the problem lies with that particular camera, fine, happens to all manufacturers.

I can agree with that. That sentiment was not expressed in your original posting.

But I've read several other cases of users loosing their images during buffering.


I can see users losing their images, but loosing? That's very poetic ;)

[Gabriel M.A.]

+1. Seriously, if any camera gave me the sorts of problems you're having, I'd be getting in touch with technical support and sending off for repair, not posting on Internet forums. And if all else fails, as Steve suggests, sell it. Life's too short to be fretting over unreliable equipment.


Agreed. This particular issue could be a number of things, from faulty electronics, to the SD card not being up to snuff, to a firmware issue they need to address right away.

[Ben Z]

The same thing happens sometimes even without pressing the play. I have set the camera to show the preview if I keep the shutter down, after taking the photo.

To everyone one who says don't do it: are you frigging serious??? Sheeez, fanboyism to the max! This is a bug that should not exist on 5000e camera.

I didn't mean to be glib. There's undoubtedly a way to foul-up any camera or electronic device if you make it try to do enough things at once. It's the same thing with our computers. At some point if you multitask enough you'll run out of memory and get an error.

But if this "glitch" is something new, that never happened before when you did the same thing, then definitely I would suggest you send the camera to Leica for repair. I'm sure you'd agree it's more likely to solve your problem than venting on a forum, as cathartic as that can be.

[steelduck]

I have opened a service ticket and recieved an email saying I should update the firmware again. I did that, it did not help. I replied to Leica, that it did not help with the video above and I am not waiting for them to reply to my mail.

Leica Forum has quite a few users, that have similar problems and I posted here to see if this is a common problem, which could mean that I send my M9 to Solms and there is no available fix.

The weird part is that I have one old (2 years) Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card that works just fine on my M9. I have 3 Lexar Pro 8GB, 2 Sandisk Ultra, 1 Sandisk Ultra II 8GB and 2 Sandisk Extreme 8GB cards that all fail.

(ps. I am a systems engineer in a software business, so please dont tell me that this is normal behavior on electronic devices... well, it might be on poorly designed ones. )

[jsrockit]

The only time this has happened to me is when I am not patient and turn it off when it is writing. With the M9, as long as you give it (a lot) of time to write without turning off the camera, you'll be ok. It's slowness takes getting used to at first. Also, when this happened to me, the card died. No matter what formatting I did, it would not work anymore. I sent it back to Sandisk (Ultra).

[furcafe]

This has been similar to my experience, both w/the old & current firmware, especially when I've filled the buffer w/a succession of shots, i.e., the only time I've lost a file (& it's only been 1 @ a time, not a batch) has been when I turn off the camera, or the battery dies, while it's writing to the card. However, I've not had a problem w/a card dying or needing replacement.

Edit: I'm using Transcend SDHC 8 & 16 GB cards.

The only time this has happened to me is when I am not patient and turn it off when it is writing. With the M9, as long as you give it (a lot) of time to write without turning off the camera, you'll be ok. It's slowness takes getting used to at first. Also, when this happened to me, the card died. No matter what formatting I did, it would not work anymore. I sent it back to Sandisk (Ultra).

[Ben Z]

I have opened a service ticket and recieved an email saying I should update the firmware again. I did that, it did not help. I replied to Leica, that it did not help with the video above and I am not waiting for them to reply to my mail.

Leica Forum has quite a few users, that have similar problems and I posted here to see if this is a common problem, which could mean that I send my M9 to Solms and there is no available fix.

The weird part is that I have one old (2 years) Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card that works just fine on my M9. I have 3 Lexar Pro 8GB, 2 Sandisk Ultra, 1 Sandisk Ultra II 8GB and 2 Sandisk Extreme 8GB cards that all fail.

(ps. I am a systems engineer in a software business, so please dont tell me that this is normal behavior on electronic devices... well, it might be on poorly designed ones. )

The only thing I might suggest, if you haven't, is download the firmware update file again, and then reinstall that one. I've heard of corruption happening in downloading or unzipping the file. If that doesn't work, then I'm out of suggestions.

I'm using 2GB Sandisk Ultra cards, so if the problem is with the bigger capacity cards that could explain why it has never happened to me. Likewise I have never used continuous shooting mode, keep auto-review turned off, and have never pushed the play button while the red light was blinking. (I shoot DNG-compressed, and by the time I get the camera down from my eye I've never seen the red light still blinking). So I'd have to duplicate your actions to see if my M9 acts the same...and I'd rather not tempt fate, as my M9 has worked flawlessly thus far.

You seem to be convinced Leica won't be able to fix this issue, and not willing to let them try. Perhaps you're not wrong. But then what are your remaining options? Seems to me, either follow my original suggestion of "don't do that"...or sell the camera and buy something that functions in a way that pleases you? :confused: I guess what I'm wondering is, what do you think this forum can do to help?

[steelduck]

I am letting the Leica to try, but it takes them 7 days to answer every email reply I give them abou the issue, so I am trying to find out if there are others with the problem and has it been fixed by Leica or some other solution.

The issue occurs also without doing anything, but taking pictures. I had that two days ago. I was taking a series of pictures maybe 1 second apart and and the camera crashed on the fourth or fifth and lost all the pictures exept the first.

I am not the onlyone with this issue:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/190113-my-m9-eating-sd-cards-merged-13.html#post1775309

ps. I have downloaded the firmware again and reloaded, but it did not help. Thanks for the tip though. I just bought the 50mm Summilux ASPH, so I do not wnt to sell the damn thing either - I just want it to save my pictures to the memorycard. ;)

[250swb]

Just take it to your Leica dealer steelduck and let them send it to Leica for repair. What you are describing isn't normal and you have to consider the vast majority of M9 users don't have this problem at all so its not firmware related or a fundamental characteristic everybody can replicate. Some may have something that looks like a similar problem, some its users error, but yours is at a level beyond all of those.

It still feels like an SD card problem to me, but it could be an electrical problem in the slot as much a card itself. And if it started after you last upgraded the Firmware have you in any way second guessed the proceedure and omitted a step. Like not re-formatting the card after you uploaded the Firmware off it? Do you reformat the card in camera after downloading all images to delete them, otherwise if you have used a PC and say Photoshop this can add unwanted files onto the card that are alien to the M9. Have you considered all your cards may be fake or faulty, not unusual if all bought from the same dodgy dealer. You aren't placing your cards or camera on top of a cathode monitor, near hi-fi speakers or anywhere else highly magnetic?

Now don't get riled up, I'm just trying to think of the simple things that can go wrong because more often than not that is the problem. When the customer says the car is broken the mechanic should first check the tank for petrol.

Steve

[zleica]

I had similar experience with a Sandisk (Ultra) SD card. Once I used a different SD card, the problems went away. It has beed reported that M9 is a bit fussy on writing files on memory cards. WTB, I use Transcend SDHC 8 & 16 GB cards without any problems.

Cheers,

[steelduck]

From L-Forum. It seems that this is an old issue that is still going on...

"Sean Reid, far from being a Leica shill as some have claimed, reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze. On some occasions, he reports, these crashes caused the camera to lose some of the pictures that it had supposedly taken. In either case, the only way to get the camera working again was to remove and reinsert the battery.

This same problem with the M8 was frequently reported on the LUF. I often experienced it myself with my M8s when taking many pictures in rapid succession (I would do this in single shot mode, not continuous, mode). Leica certainly knew about this problem, and they supposedly fixed it for me a few times although the "fixes" never worked. It would be surprising and disappointing if the M9 has the exact same bug."

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/190113-my-m9-eating-sd-cards-merged.html

My M9 has been "invited" to Solms, I really hope they can fix it, but I starting to be afraid that there is no fix available. :(

[zleica]

From L-Forum. It seems that this is an old issue that is still going on...

"Sean Reid, far from being a Leica shill as some have claimed, reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze. On some occasions, he reports, these crashes caused the camera to lose some of the pictures that it had supposedly taken. In either case, the only way to get the camera working again was to remove and reinsert the battery.

This same problem with the M8 was frequently reported on the LUF. I often experienced it myself with my M8s when taking many pictures in rapid succession (I would do this in single shot mode, not continuous, mode). Leica certainly knew about this problem, and they supposedly fixed it for me a few times although the "fixes" never worked. It would be surprising and disappointing if the M9 has the exact same bug."

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/190113-my-m9-eating-sd-cards-merged.html

My M9 has been "invited" to Solms, I really hope they can fix it, but I starting to be afraid that there is no fix available. :(

I have experienced all of what you described. My M9 went into a loop and didn't write any files (it wrote file names but with zero contents). I had to pop out the battery and reformat the card before I can take another shot. But the problems continued after I took shots in rapid succession...

Then I changed my SD card and the problem went away completely. Now I can take continues shots up to the buffer is completely full without a glitch. In my case, I use SD cards with class 6 and class 10. I did have problems with Sandisk Ultra II 16 GB (class 4) SD card.

[steelduck]

I have experienced all of what you described. My M9 went into a loop and didn't write any files (it wrote file names but with zero contents). I had to pop out the battery and reformat the card before I can take another shot. But the problems continued after I took shots in rapid succession...

Then I changed my SD card and the problem went away completely. Now I can take continues shots up to the buffer is completely full without a glitch. In my case, I use SD cards with class 6 and class 10.

Can you tell me what cards are you using? I have bad luck with Lexar Pro 8GB and Sandisk Ultra 8GB cards.

[zleica]

Can you tell me what cards are you using? I have bad luck with Lexar Pro 8GB and Sandisk Ultra 8GB cards.

I use Transcend SDHC 8 GB (class 6) & 16 GB (class 10) cards.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Then I changed my SD card and the problem went away completely. Now I can take continues shots up to the buffer is completely full without a glitch. In my case, I use SD cards with class 6 and class 10.


I believe that Leica had a list of "supported" SD cards somewhere, didn't they?

I remember I had a card that my M8 absolutely refused to work with.

In order to avoid any issue, either use common sense when buying a card ("professional" grade vs. buy-two-get-one-free), do online research, or just stick to Leica's list --as last resort.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Can you tell me what cards are you using? I have bad luck with Lexar Pro 8GB and Sandisk Ultra 8GB cards.


I avoid Lexars (I've had QC problems with those cards since my Canon 10D days) and anything by Sandisk that isn't "Extreme" made before 2008.

I also usually check (and it's becoming increasingly difficult) to find a card that doesn't say "Made in China". Those made in Japan or Taiwan, even their cheaper ones, have proved very reliable to me.

[Paul Luscher]

Well, Phantomas and Steelduck, you can say I'm engaging in "fanboyism to the extreme," but I don't see what the big deal is. Why do you HAVE to look at the photos while the card is still writing? You only have to wait a few seconds before the card writes. You cant possibly wait that long?

I mean to me, this seems a very minor point, when taking the camera and its capabilities as a whole (ditto with your comments about the LCD screen, Phantomas). Sort of not being able to see the forest for the trees, from my viewpoint. Anyway, isn't the idea that you should have your eye in the viewfinder and be shooting, not chimping after every shot?

As I've said before, Leicas are not the equivalent of a state-of-the -art- features-loaded Lexus, but more like one of those old shift-it-yourself British sports cars. You just don't get everything with a Leica that you get on a DSLR. If you can't live with that, then maybe the M9 is not the camera for you.

Sometimes I'm glad I'm came late to digital--after years using essentially no-feature film Leica Ms ( OK, TTL metering--whoopee). That way, I'm happy with what I've got, rather than kvetching that the camera doesn't have this or that niggling feature....

[sevres_babylone]

Well, Phantomas and Steelduck, you can say I'm engaging in "fanboyism to the extreme," but I don't see what the big deal is. Why do you HAVE to look at the photos while the card is still writing? You only have to wait a few seconds before the card writes. You cant possibly wait that long?
I'm not sure I'd say "to the extreme", but since if the M9's Auto Review is set to ON, it will let you see the picture before it finishes writing to the card, there is nothing inherently problematical about not waiting for the "few seconds" to pass.

I have Auto Review set to off. I do chimp more than I'd like to -- that is I review as I do with my GRD3 and my Epson. I have had freezes, requiring me to take the battery out and put it back in. It's not zero-byte files that bother me -- I've had extremely few, if any (The reason I don't know for sure is I haven't checked the directory on the card; I have had very infrequent instances where Photo Mechanic has shown a file to be unreadable, which may be a zero-byte file). What doesn't bother is having to wait for the buffer to clear. What bothers me is shots lost in those instances, which have also been fortunately quite infrequent, where I lose shots because I'm occupied going through the exercise of replacing the battery.

All I'm asking for is that if the camera is working too hard writing the file to allow the preview, just don't show the preview.

I discussed my experiences in a flickr discussion about frozen M9s:
"This has happened to me twice. The first time might have been my fault. It was shortly after I'd gotten the camera. I was using the new Heliar 75mm, which is a bigger lens than I've been used to, and I hadn't got used to the lens yet. I think I inadvertently was pressing buttons as I was shooting.

The second time, last weekend, this was definitely not the case. I was shooting quickly in a crowded concert, and the buffer undoubtedly got filled. I was also chimping. Then everything just froze. Nothing on the screen. Shutter wouldn't work. I replaced the battery (which was not near empty by any means. At first nothing. Then the screen lit up and said that the SD card was full. This was also definitely not the case. I took out the SD card and put it back in, and eventually, everything was back to normal. If this were a job, I would nave been extremely frustrated (well I was anyway.)

In my opinion, the firmware should be designed so that, assuming the initial problem was a full buffer, that there be a warning to wait

The camera did feel quite warm, but I was not in an overly hot locale.

By the way, I use only Sandisk Ultra cards (8gb), and original Leica batteries. "

The Ultras had been recommended in other discussions, and generally have served me well. They are listed in Leica's FAQ. I will try the Transcends, for comparison purposes at least, the next time I buy a card.

Here is a link to the Flickr discussion:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/leicam9/discuss/72157625694884289/

[zleica]

Maybe Leica will take care of this during the next firmware update. I updated the latest version 1.162 but the problems were still there for my Sandisk Ultra II card. As I said in my earlier posts, after I switched the card to Transcend SDHC 8 GB (class 6) & 16 GB (class 10) cards, everything works normally - I can take continuous shoot until the buffer is full, then the M9 pauses for a few seconds then continues to fire and go on and on...

[Paul Luscher]

Fair enough, sevres babylon. And you pointed out something--if you have have to camera set up-you DO get instant preview of the last shot taken. Mine does that.

Suffice to say, that the only problem I've had with the M9 was one "shutter fault" message. My fault, I think, as I had the camera on "discreet" mode and was admittedly frantically pressing the button again and again while in "single-shot" mode--trying to capture a Big Moment and got a little overenthusiastic.

Only other time I had a card issue was with an M8--again blasting away in single shot mode, attempting to try to capture a moment--all of a sudden the pics showing up on the screen looked like they'd been hit with a eggbeater. Guess I've got to learn to slow down a bit....

[steelduck]

I will not go into the details as Leica has not given me a OK to copy paste the email here. I just say that Leica has acknowledged the issue and are working hard to figure it out.

[zleica]

I will not go into the details as Leica has not given me a OK to copy paste the email here. I just say that Leica has acknowledged the issue and are working hard to figure it out.

I can only guess that the operating software went into a loop when the M9 file writing speed in faster than that of the SD card while the buffer is full.