View Full Version : Leica M6 Classic - production year? VF upgrade? right choice?
hi all
i have a few quick questions hope y'all can help with (i've searched to no avail)
1) looking at purchasing a M6 Classic... if i have serial number, how can i determine what year it was produced. are there any *bad batches* i should be aware of?
2) the classic i'm looking at has the original viewfinder. i've read extensively about the flare issue.. is this prevalent amongst ALL M6's with the original finder? how much does the upgrade cost($US)?
3) i enjoy street photography and never use a flash. originally i was looking at the M7 but the cost was double that of the M6 and well the thought of the electronics failing scared me -- also without a battery on that i'm left with little to nothing. so i've now settled on an M6 over the M6TTL. is this a good choice? i mean i hardly use flash so why waste money on TTL right? unlike alot of you this would probably be my one and only Leica purchase so i want something i can grow with and keep for my sons in years to come.
thanks!
VF upgrade is not necessary, the issue is highly exaggerated, TTL is waste of money and besides the classic is a much nicer, better proportioned camera. No "bad batches" but early ones had light meter circuits that were prone to break, this can be fixed with newer circuitry. Some say the Wetzlar factory had better quality control than the Solms factory.
But I hope you are not expecting consensus here on RFF!
VF upgrade is not necessary, the issue is highly exaggerated,
Agree.
TTL is waste of money
Not if you use it, it isn't. But I have Nikons for TTL flash. And the shutter speed dial on the TTL goes the wrong way.
and besides the classic is a much nicer, better proportioned camera.
Yup.
1. do a search for "+leica +serial" and you'll find a number of sites. They may not all agree in some of the finer details but I think you'll find what you want. I believe our head bartender has the most complete and detailed list however.
2. For a .72 finder, I doubt you'll find much difference between an upgraded finder and a non-upgraded one. But of course YMMV. For a .85 finder, however, an upgrade is definitely worthwhile IMO. Again, YMMV. I've not paid for an upgrade personally, but I believe it's around $250-$300. Others will undoubtedly know better.
3. My reasoning to get the M6 classic was very similar to yours, except I bought two late model M6s :). In hindsight, I think I would have been better off with an M4-P or another M2 since I rarely use the built-in meter anyways. C'est la vie I guess.
Frank Version Two
07-03-2011, 20:15
Just look for the classic user M6, be prepared for a CLA unless you know the seller. Two years ago you could get them for $900, now they are $1100-$1200.
Personally I'd pay to remove the stupid extra framelines more than the MP-finder. Flare was never an issue before the internet forums started.
I had the finder upgrade done by DAG. The difference was not all that obvious so I agree it was not necessary. However at the time my M7 cost me $2200 and the upgrade was around $300 so it was not outrageous. Also DAG told me while he had the top plate off he took the liberty of lubing and adjusting it. It was worth it to me knowing that.
Ray, my late M7 .58 came with the MP finder upgrade factory installed. I gather that the upgrade seems most worthwhile for pre-MP .85 finder models, somewhat less so with .72 models, and not at all for .58 models. I didn't have a problem with the M6 classic .85 HM finder, but I remember the M6 TTL .85 RF patch flared like no tomorrow. Go figure. Never needed, nor much liked the TTL in any event, except for the .58 finder model.
makeitmine
07-03-2011, 23:11
I read up about the flare issues on Internet and noticed that they may just be overhyped. I have been using the m6 classic and been trying to "discover" the flare but hasn't found a problem with that. If you can live without a build in meter, m2 or m4 might be a good choice. That way you can spend more on lenses:)
Peter, Whenever I get a flare on the rf patch I just change my position slightly to avoid it. I have an un-upgraded .85x M7. The camera is nearly 10 years old (how time flies) so if it makes a difference with HM finders then I'll send it to DAG and get a CLA too.
Peter, Whenever I get a flare on the rf patch I just change my position slightly to avoid it. I have an un-upgraded .85x M7. The camera is nearly 10 years old (how time flies) so if it makes a difference with HM finders then I'll send it to DAG and get a CLA too.
I agree, Ray, that technique generally works fine. But I found that with the TTL .85, the problem was such that the best way to adjust my position was to change ownership. Worked like magic. Are you back in town Bayside next month?
I agree, Ray, that technique generally works fine. But I found that with the TTL .85, the problem was such that the best way to adjust my position was to change ownership. Worked like magic. Are you back in town Bayside next month?
Yes. See you next month. I will bring 4x5. Care to sit for me?
You mean the Ebony? Bring it on. I think I'm safe, because my GAS is under tight control. Two more years of law and grad school for the offspring. And my daughter pinched my first Leica, the M6 classic that Joseph and Adrian talked me into buying from Mr. Chin's in the Lock Road Hyatt promenade. See you in SF.
Apologies, I think we just hijacked the thread. Back on topic: just get an M6 classic and don't fuss, just shoot. Forget the TTL, and don't bother to upgrade unless you actually experience a problem and Ray's technique suggested above doesn't resolve it for you.
+1 for the m6 classic, mine is one of the very early ones (wetzlar I guess) with no strap bumpers... great camera, that's all I use now everyday.
I can confirm these old ones have a bit of a funny meter, you might have to get the circuit changed at some point but not necessarily.
Mine still works fine.
My leica repair guy told me the m6 classic with the Leica (not Leitz) red dot is the best buy, because of the better meter.
He also thinks it's the best leica m body for shooters, considering that the mp is 3 times more expensive.
Never noticed this viewfinder flare on mine.
hope this helps
cheers
g
I never had a flare issue in the short time I owned an M6 Classic. The M6 did not really work out for me, but if you find a good deal, I think they are the bargains of the Leica world. The M7 can be double the price just for AE.
If you're set on Leica, the M6 is a sound camera, but for about the same money, you could get a Zeiss Ikon, which personally I think is the nicer camera, and worth a quick look.
After owning my M6 for about 20 years, I spent a few bucks and got it a nice spa treatment (CLA at Leica NJ). Att the same time I also got the finder upgrade and bīnever had any flare issues since then. It will be good to shoot for another 20 years.
the M4-P seems like a good choice but recently, the prices found in ebay isnt really cheap as well..topping up a bit could get me a M6
There is a known design flaw in early Wetzlar M6's that can cause light leaks from the back door. I believe up to 188xxx serials. The black chrome on early M6's might show flaws, but that's not that important. I figure how much you're affected depends on things like climate, luck, karma, etc, but as a rule I avoid early M6's. I got a later M6 classic in black and it's wonderful. I like my chrome M6 TTL a bit better though. Didn't realise it looked differently until recently, the difference is very slight. I really like the large wheel of the TTL too, and it turns the right way. And TTL's come in .58.
I really want a viewfinder upgrade, but it's not essential really and I don't feel like spending money on fixing gear that's not broken.
All in all doesn't matter much though. Any M6 is the best camera you'll ever own.
The meter in M6 should be on its last laps, and most likely if the electronics were original , would be acting up since it is 20-30 years old. I would pay more to get a fondle or have proper return policy.
thanks y'all! appreciate all your time. read all the replies & chats and took in all the advice and although M7 was my first choice, i think i want an M6 classic even more now.
so spewing i missed out on this one as it's the reason i started this thread..good year too i think and it's a black one which is what i'd prefer, purely because of stealth (ricoh gr1-s is my current walkaround p&s/backup):
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300572607243&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
this is a great price/deal right? hopefully theres others?
Steve Bellayr
07-04-2011, 05:55
The issue for me is over rated. Occassionally, on the Classic it is a problem and a little more so on the M6ttl w/0.85 viewfinder but not worth the upgrade. I would rather use the money for lenses. The issue with the early Wetzlar's was that the metering system was new and there were problems that caused the camera to go back for repair. Most have already done been back to Solms. If you get the later Classic w/o the Wetzlar inscripton on top you should be fine. Those models are less than 20 years old. If you get a excellent or better should be fine without a CLA. My recommendation buy from a reputable person or dealer that way you will not need the CLA for another 20+ years.
LeicaTom
07-04-2011, 06:17
I owned a 1986 "Wetzlar" M6 (second year production M6 I believe?) for over 20 years and I NEVER had a problem or issue with the meter , sometimes I'd lose the exposure arrows due to flaring, (stray light) but if you turn the camera slighly sideways on a angle to the picture the flaring goes away, then you make your exposure adjustment then turn back the camera to compose your shot again and then shoot.......
The finish on the back door was a cosmetic/vanity issue yes, (the black chrome bubbles = yucky!) :( also the rewind shaft was a WEAK point and mine bent after normal use
(ALL M6'S HAVE THIS PROBLEM) and the only way to settle it is to exchange the winder for a SL2 or M4 winder, made from brass instead of that cheap metal they were all made from.
Many old timer Leica users will tell you and they also believe that the Wetzlar M6 was/is a BETTER BUILT camera then the later post 1988 Solms built M6 cameras and that factory quality controls were also much much better at Wetzlar then at Solms.
(I can say that for now with the modern Leica cameras being made there , have a horrible quality control) and at least the entire camera components were made and assembled in Germany........not like now, 2011, with stuff being made outside of Germany (Portugal) then shipped there for final assembly, that's NOT - "made in Germany" in my book......)
I would think that most of the classic M6's with electronics issues have been repaired (if they were a constant user camera) if it's new in the box I'd have it checked by a really good Leica person like Don Goldberg etc. etc.
Alot of really NICE older M6's have been sold here at RFF, so keep your eyes open, many good deals in the $1,100 to $1,400 range for clean freshly CLA'd cameras.
Enjoy it, it's the BEST Leica ever made the M6 and once it's gone over/proper CLA, it should last and last 20+ years without major problems, heck it might even outlive film itself?
Tom
DennisPT
07-04-2011, 06:53
I'll look closely to make sure there's no bubble on the body as oxidation can progress with time.
twopointeight
07-04-2011, 07:50
I have an M6 from the first production run. The electronics failed within 3 months. The new circuit was installed and I've never had a problem since. This camera was used professionally and at least 5,000 rolls were put through it. I had it serviced every 2 years or so. Never noticed any flare. It's semi-retired now as a primary camera, replaced by an M7 with a flare-free viewfinder. Not sure I see any difference?
Livesteamer
07-04-2011, 08:06
I have two early M6 classics with the .72 finder and of 1985 vintage. Flare has never been a problem and both cameras work well never having been serviced. My one new M6 was from the batch of M6 .85 made about a dozen years ago and it's rangefinder patch did flare badly. Sherry Krauter upgraded the .85 finder for me and now it's as nice as my old M3. I do a lot of infant/toddler photos with it and a 50 lux in low, available light and it's the perfect combination. Joe
RichardB
07-04-2011, 08:34
Apologies, I think we just hijacked the thread. Back on topic: just get an M6 classic and don't fuss, just shoot. Forget the TTL, and don't bother to upgrade unless you actually experience a problem and Ray's technique suggested above doesn't resolve it for you.
Well written!
These so-called problems get beaten to death on Internet Forums.
I would purchase my M by its condition, M6, M6TTL and M7 if you want a meter. I would avoid the earlier M's unless you have a slower style of working without an internal meter. I certainly have no concern about my two M7's electronics.
Life is much to short to agonize over non-existant problems.-Dick
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