Early CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T".

[Brian Sweeney]

I picked up a late Contax III with this lens last week. It is a Sonnar "T" from the 255 block of lenses. One of the earlier Sonnars marked with a "T". The earliest that I have taken apart was from the 267 block, which had the same alloy construction of the wartime lenses.

This one is different.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3370

The lens uses the same heavier metal of the pre-war uncoated lenses, feels more substantial. The aperture ring really shows a difference- not a light alloy.

The Contax mount is same weight and construction of the uncoated lenses, single set screw holds the optics in.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3371

[Brian Sweeney]

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3372

I expected to find the hidden set screw holding the rear module in, visible after unscrewing the optics from the mount. I'll bet there is another one under the aperture ring holding in the namering. These set screws are not used on any uncoated lens that I have disassembled- about 14 of them.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3373

The optics fit into a Jupiter-3 focus mount with room to spare. I left the original shims in the Contax Mount so the optics can be used with the Leica and the Contax. This is reversible.

The Red "T".

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3374

[Brian Sweeney]

the lens is optimized for the M9 close-up and wide-open, works well at infinity at F2.8. The Sonnar focus shift pushes towards infinity.

The Contax III, working meter and all, has a Post-war CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar on it now. The latter cannot be converted using a J-3 mount, and does not work well with a Contax to Leica adapter: the shape of the rear module interferes with the RF pickup of the Leica. So "win-win", M9 gets a unique lens and the postwar Sonnar gets a Body.

Pictures with the lens on the M9 will be coming, so far this week the weather is better suited for converting lenses rather than shooting with them.

[dexdog]

Interesting, Brian. I have a bunch of 5cm Sonnars, but nothing close to this serial number. Theile production date of June 3, 1939, part of a batch of 3000 lenses.

[menos]

Curious about the pictures ;-)

[Brian Sweeney]

Long Weekend is here- will have a chance to take some pictures with this lens.

[Brian Sweeney]

The 1938 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", wide-open on the M9. ISO 160.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3375

100% Crop

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3376

Some strong skylight in the background, also at F1.5

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3377

100% crop:
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3378

Sunset, F1.5:

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3379

So I bought the C-Sonnar 50/1.5 and this lens in the same week. Converted this lens the day I received it to LTM.

You can never have enough Sonnars.

[Brian Sweeney]

Another at F1.5,
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3380

100% crop:

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3381

and at F4:

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3382

100% crop, focus shift is toward infinity. I compensated slightly.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3383

[john neal]

The Contax III, working meter and all, has a Post-war CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar on it now. The latter cannot be converted using a J-3 mount, and does not work well with a Contax to Leica adapter: the shape of the rear module interferes with the RF pickup of the Leica.

Brian,

Does that hold true for the post-war f2 versions as well? As you know, I have recently bought one - I know it's a pig to convert to ltm, but will it work with an adapter on my M3? I'm hoping the rear optic is a little smaller....

If not, I guess I will have to move it on somehow.

Great results above, BTW

[Brian Sweeney]

The F2 lens should be fine.

The F1.5 read is bigger.

[Brian Sweeney]

Trip to the playground this weekend, at F4 on the M9.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3386

^Subject moved during exposure.^

And wide-open at F1.5,

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3387

[mynikonf2]

Very cool read...where do you find a screw driver to fit those set screws??? Every thing I try, the blade is always to large or the blade to soft, very frustrating!

[Brian Sweeney]

The set of screwdrivers that I use: Wiha.

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/~/C-WIHA-SCK/Wiha-Screwdriver-Kits.aspx

Very well made - and some amazingly small sizes.

[Peter Klein]

You know, Brian, if any of us were to meet your daughter in person, we might not recognize her without that Sonnar look. :D

Seriously, you really make those Sonnars sing.

--Peter

[Brian Sweeney]

Somehow I end up using the Sonnars more than any other lens that I have. Part of the attraction is the unique optical design that almost faded into oblivion for 50mm lenses.

One of Nikki with the Type I Rigid Summicron, wide-open on the M3.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=187&pictureid=1778

[photovdz]

I've got an earlier sonnar T but it's a F2 model : 2202696 (I had another one in the same batch 2658 also T)

but I have no digital full frame body to show you the results...

[hipsterdufus]

Those 100% crops are unbelievable. Absolutely sharp enough for what my purposes would be. Great stuff; thanks for sharing.

[john neal]

I wonder who bought the 300*** series lens in a Cook & Perkins mount last weekend - I was bidding and the system told me my bid was leading (at the final selling price) but I didn't get it - and there was no record of my bid in the bid history (OK, I know ebay stinks, but you have to try).

Anyway, somebody got a mount that is probably worth more than the lens....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270789653377&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[john neal]

OK, here's another one - I want it, just for that funky little bag ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zeiss-Sonnar-58mm-f1-5-Original-Fit-LEICA-L-M-58-1-5-/260579819205?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3cabc47ec5

[menos]

OK, here's another one - I want it, just for that funky little bag ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zeiss-Sonnar-58mm-f1-5-Original-Fit-LEICA-L-M-58-1-5-/260579819205?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3cabc47ec5

Looks pretty beat up for that price range - am I missing something?

[Brian Sweeney]

The lens in the last auction is a 58mm F1.5. These are uncommon, and the origin is not clear.

I have a Zeiss Leather pouch that came with a 5cm F1.5 pre-war lens, was in Contax mount.

[menos]

Thanks Brian - I take it, that uncommon = rare = more expensive then.

[johannielscom]

I wonder who bought the 300*** series lens in a Cook & Perkins mount last weekend - I was bidding and the system told me my bid was leading (at the final selling price) but I didn't get it - and there was no record of my bid in the bid history (OK, I know ebay stinks, but you have to try).

Anyway, somebody got a mount that is probably worth more than the lens....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270789653377&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Wouldn't necessarily say that, John!

According to Thiele, that lens came from a batch of 600 Contax lenses completed 18.04.47. Well into the Soviet era, it may have been one of the last batches with the CZJ marking to come out of Germany before the Russians started to pack it all up.

Either this once was a Contax lens that was later set into a C&P mount, or it was an optical cell delivered to the UK to be fitted in a C&P mount.

Fair price, sad it's not yours now :(

[uhoh7]

One thing I find interesting is the difference in OOF rendering between the sonnar 1.5s and the nikon 5cm 1.4s

Just as they got the mount wrong, hehe, they have something in the lens design which makes it stand distinct from the sonnar.

I do love the nikon--I don't have the fancy later one, but mine is very clean and very sharp close in. My sonnar is not in shape yet for a real test, but I suspect the nikon is sharper at 2 meters.

The nikon OOF I am often amazed with--and it's novel to my eye, so I like it. But as you show in your bokeh shot, the sonnar has more symetry in OOF areas.

Or am I mistaken about all this? As you all know OOF varies tremendously between shots with the same lens, so perhaps the sonnar really will do this:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6140/6023637634_d1c483ec20_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6147/6031807170_fe232b19de_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6194/6037692266_48244801c5_z.jpg

this same lens is poor at infinity

[Brian Sweeney]

The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 has more harsh Bokeh than any of the Sonnars that I have used. It's inherent in the design- I have several of them, all almost identical in their rendering.

The Nikkor 5cm f1.4 Sonnar formula lens underwent one major revision in the optical formula- at about the time that the Nikon S2 was being designed. The "NKT" and very early Japan lenses are not as harsh as the later F1.4's. The diameter of the optics was increased, as well as the fixtures used to hold them. I learned this when trying to replace the filter ring of a damaged 5005 series lens with one from a 34x lens. The front element passed throught the fixture, all of the threads were different. So- my speculation, when nikon moved to a 24x36 format from the 24x34 format of the Nikon S and M, they had to increase the diameter of the optics to improve vignetting. In doing so- harsh bokeh to optimize for close-up and wide-open performance.

This is with a Nikkor 5cm f1.4, wide-open on the Nikon SP:
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=166&pictureid=1573

[Brian Sweeney]

I optimized a collapsible 5cm f2 sonnar, coated post-manufacture, for the Nikon RF's. It was used as an enlarger lens, in a non-focus 39mm mount. I transplanted the glass back to a collapsible fixture. My only collapsible lens for a Nikon RF.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3152

Smooth.

[Brian Sweeney]

Back to the 1938 CZJ Sonnar 5cm F1.5, wide-open on the M9.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3470

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3468

100% crop

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3474

This lens does better at infinity than the ZK Sonnar tested yesterday. I have it set up for the helical to go slightly past infinity: positioned the helical a little deeper into the Mount when rebuilding the Jupiter-3 used to convert it.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3480

100% crop of intended focus. Not bad, even better stopped down to F2.8.

http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3481

[gzuiko]

The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 has more harsh Bokeh than any of the Sonnars that I have used. It's inherent in the design- I have several of them, all almost identical in their rendering.

The Nikkor 5cm f1.4 Sonnar formula lens underwent one major revision in the optical formula- at about the time that the Nikon S2 was being designed. The "NKT" and very early Japan lenses are not as harsh as the later F1.4's. The diameter of the optics was increased, as well as the fixtures used to hold them. I learned this when trying to replace the filter ring of a damaged 5005 series lens with one from a 34x lens. The front element passed throught the fixture, all of the threads were different. So- my speculation, when nikon moved to a 24x36 format from the 24x34 format of the Nikon S and M, they had to increase the diameter of the optics to improve vignetting. In doing so- harsh bokeh to optimize for close-up and wide-open performance.

This is with a Nikkor 5cm f1.4, wide-open on the Nikon SP:
http://www.ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=166&pictureid=1573

My NKT f1.4 has very nice smooth bokeh. It's just post 5005 series, in the 317XXX range. Still my favorite lens of all time. Optimized for close up, great for portraits. Not so hot at infinity.

Jim