Should I buy x100 or go on saving for M8? [Archive]

klapka

06-16-2011, 23:50

Ahh.. Seems like I just never can stop buying new photo gear..

Well, had little sleep tonight since thinking over the dilemma:
Fuji X-100 now or go on saving ang get an M8 next summer may be.

Mainly I shoot film (M6ttl) but need some digital backup every now and then.

The main Con of X-100 for me: 23 mm lens - this is the FL I have never used before. The shortest FL of all my Leica lens is 28 and I don't give it much work since I like to see bokeh in my snaps..

And Cons of M8 for me - the IR filters demand have none of them and the price of course.

So.. just really can't decide.. Any opinnions would be appreciated.

hxpham

06-16-2011, 23:54

The main Con of X-100 for me: 23 mm lens - this is the FL I have never used before. The shortest FL of all my Leica lens is 28 and I don't give it much work since I like to see bokeh in my snaps..

Because the X-100 has an APS-C sized sensor, it has a field of view roughly equivalent to a 35mm lens on a regular (full frame) 35mm camera.

thegman

06-17-2011, 00:03

sleepyhead

06-17-2011, 00:05

I don't own either of these cameras, but for me the question would be if I could live with a fixed-lens (single focal length), or not.

klapka

06-17-2011, 00:13

Because the X-100 has an APS-C sized sensor, it has a field of view roughly equivalent to a 35mm lens on a regular (full frame) 35mm camera.

Of course I understand that the field of view due to crop comes similar to 35 mm but what doesn't come similar is DOF it stays as big as the 23 mm lens has. What about portraits?

Or X-100 has some magic Fujinon being 23 mm FL and having shallow DOF at the same time?

thegman

06-17-2011, 00:18

The X100 has an f/2 lens, which I would imagine allows reasonably shallow DOF, even on a 23mm lens, but you could check out exactly what it is at:

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Although I do think a 35mm equiv. is far from ideal for portraits, if portraits are a big part of your photography, then maybe the M8 is a better choice.

Keith

06-17-2011, 00:21

It comes down to being able to live with a fixed focal length IMO.

I've had an M8 and it was a nice camera but I like my X100 better ... particularly being able to shoot at higher ISO's where the M8 is limited, and the 35mm field of view is a pretty handy one to be stuck with if that's the situation!

hxpham

06-17-2011, 00:47

With the 1.5x crop factor and a 23mm f/2 lens, I think the shortest DoF would be about the same as 35mm lens at f/3.

Richard G

06-17-2011, 01:19

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/5841387845_ff092cf5e5_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/richardgm2/5841387845/)
RACS (http://www.flickr.com/photos/richardgm2/5841387845/) by Richard GM2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/richardgm2/), on Flickr

Especially with the Macro setting you can get some fantastic shallow depth of field with X100. See this post of Keith's:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1645955&postcount=14

Pickett Wilson

06-17-2011, 02:16

The M8 is old, fussy technology. And then there are those filters to deal with. Grab the X100!

Keith

06-17-2011, 02:20

I forgot about the filters ... they're a pain!

Lss

06-17-2011, 02:27

The M8 is old, fussy technology. And then there are those filters to deal with.
Fussy? These are hardly things to worry about, it's a very capable camera. In a perfect world you would not need the filters, but they are a minor annoyance.

I recommend the same thing many have already said here. Think about the focal lengths you want and whether the lens of X100 works for you. Then try it. If the camera seems good and you feel you need a digital, buy it. The M8 is the better option in case you are not comfortable with a single lens and are not in a rush to get a new camera.

wintoid

06-17-2011, 02:56

Personally, what stops me getting an X100 is I don't like autofocus.

huntjump

06-17-2011, 02:57

Ive played with teh x100. Its nice, but if you want full manual you will not be satisfied with the x100.

Consider the r-d1 (s) ? Much cheaper than M8 (usually $1000 or so ) and depending on what you want to do it might just be the best of both worlds. Im SERIOUSLY considering it myself, since i love my M bodies I will use that and a r-d1. hmmm maybe i should not recommend people to buy this camera, prices might get too close to the m8 ;)

Vobluda

06-17-2011, 03:24

As former owner of M8 and as current X100 user my advice is not to buy any of the as they are both prototypes.

Michael Markey

06-17-2011, 03:25

Somehow I`ve always seen a digital option as somewhat different from the considerations made when choosing to use an M body.
I`ve therefore not debated long about M8 or M9 but just happy to use my M lenses on M film bodies.
The technology has been moving to fast for me to warrant that sort of outlay and in any event I want to take advantage of digital`s possibilities of an even more compact body with fast AV.
With the new Fuji and Ricoh offerings it looks like we`re getting there

Brian Sweeney

06-17-2011, 03:46

Having to wait a year to buy an M8, that does not help you out now.
The M8- I bought a very late run M8, slightly used with 400 actuations. Did not have any problems. It was $2,500 18 months ago- with case and second battery. Prices of IR cut filters are down, as the M9 does not require them. They have their own issues, such as causing reflections when used at night.

On the X100- based on what I have read here on RFF and other sites, it has some "bugs" to be worked out. Waiting six months or so for an X100 means getting a more mature product with the issues worked out.

You could get a Sony NEX or other Mirrorless camera to use your M-Mount lenses. These bodies run much less than the X100 or M8, and can be used with an inexpensive adapter. I use Leica mount lenses on an Olympus EP2 without trouble.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-M-LM-Lens-Sony-E-Mount-NEX-3-NEX-5-Adapter-/220676063047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3361517f47

jsrockit

06-17-2011, 04:03

Do you want:

High ISO?
AF?
Macro?
etc.

or

Mechanical rangefinder
Capatibility with your current set-up
interchangable lenses?

The way i see it is that you can buy the X100 now, use it until you save the rest for the M8, and then sell the X100 with at most a 25% loss. Think of it as a rental.

As much as non-users make a big deal over the X100's bugs, it is still a completely usable camera as is.

Spyro

06-17-2011, 04:48

There's a list of things that the M8 cant do and the x100 can, and vice versa. We can write them down if you want to help you decide which ones are most important to your photography, but they're probably too obvious? I dont think there are any hidden secrets with these cameras, it's just a matter of comparing specs. Personally I prefer the x100 because I like the silent shutter, the high ISO and also I do some close up shots every now and then

http://spyro-p.smugmug.com/Other/munchkin/i-pzckpmm/0/XL/DSCF4258-XL.jpg

klapka

06-17-2011, 05:50

Well. So nice to get such a reasonable feedback and so many pieces of advise in just a couple of hours!

I am a kind of person who always evaluates too much info before making any decision at least I am firm having made my choice.M

So, I rejected x-100. Will not buy it.

Explanation: I decided that it will not completely close digital theme for me as M8 (and of course M9) would.
This is a great cam and could have become a nice second camera for my future digital M but I just can't afford it.
It's all about money. I already have to much of redundant gear.
Also I would like to use the lenses I already have on digital. That makes sense since some of this leses are great and I love working with them. I also payed money for them so why not give them every possible use? This would be effective.
(Well, I already have:
28 mm Kobalux f3.2
35 mm Zeiss Biogon ZM f2
40 mm Summicron C
50 mm Summicron (rigid)
50 mm Nokton f1.1
50 mm Jupiter 3 f1.5
75 mm Heliar f2.5)
So it just seems like I am to stay with M-system..

Not Nex-3,5 because of focusing and LCD/EVF framing which I hate.

Not RD-1s because of 6 megapixels which I find too little on my Nikon D70.

Once again, thanks for all responses.

Keith

06-17-2011, 05:58

Considering your lens line up I think you made the right choice.

Enjoy the M8 when you get it ... in spite of a few gnarly bits it's a great camera! :)

and post some pics of course! :D

Spyro

06-17-2011, 06:25

That makes sense, enjoy!

traveler_101

06-17-2011, 06:28

klapka

06-17-2011, 06:33

Well, I still don't see why you don't pick up an Olympus E-P2 with the VF-2, electronic viewfinder attached the camera's hotshoe. With an inexpensive adapter you could use all those lenses you listed:! The camera is out of production and soon on sale now that Olympus is releasing the E-P3.

Some four or five years ago I used to have a Panasonic with EVF, just hate using EVFs since then. Optical viewfinder is a demand feature for me.

jsrockit

06-17-2011, 07:02

Not to mention m4/3 makes every Leica lens a telephoto lens. ;)

Rob-F

06-17-2011, 07:05

The M8 is old, fussy technology. And then there are those filters to deal with. Grab the X100!

I find my M8.2 to be anything but fussy. I find it to be quick and easy to use. It's very easy to access any needed functions in the menus, which are very straightforward and without submenus.

mod2001

06-17-2011, 07:15

if you need AF and HighIso above 1600, buy the Fuji, if not the M8 is still a fantastic camera and i like the pictures much more than the ones from the Fuji, but anyway, the Fuji is a really nice camera too.

Yogi

dbarnes

06-17-2011, 07:37

To help you use that f2 lens wide open to minimize depth of field, the X100 has a built-in 3 stop neutral density filter. Or so I've read.

Rogier

06-17-2011, 07:48

I just returned from a week NYC shooing with my M8 + M4-P and iPhone.
What I really noticed is how heavy the M8 gets while lugging it around all day... Being close to B&H I went inside to handle the X100 while is looks really cool but the interface was to confusing. And the viewfinder not living up to my expectations. In short for me its a glorified advanced point and shoot.

If you desire a small portable digital that you might want to check out the Panasonic Lumix GF 2 or a Canon G12 or Nikon P7000.

Dante_Stella

06-17-2011, 11:52

I own both. If focus tracking is any part of your program, that is the achilles' heel of the X100 (and where the NEX-5 crushes it). The X100 is fine for relatively static subjects or zone focusing, but it can't deal with anything that's moving much. Not that the M8 is that much better, but at least you can learn to keep turning the focusing ring through the shot.

And I know there are flash deniers out there, but if you aren't, the X100 is also a bear for using most types of external flashes - you need to specifically activate the ISO shoe, which tends to surprise you by locking the A mode to a slow speed of 1/30. You can't just switch the flash on and off like you would on anything else (unless you want to go to M mode). I hope the situation is better for the Fuji flashes.

Dante

FalseDigital

06-17-2011, 12:30

x100 HANDS DOWN!
If I could afford one I'd buy one right now too. I got a chance to play with one once and I can honestly say it feels and shoots wonderful.

JonR

06-18-2011, 07:03

Personally, I'd get the X100, it's sexy, under warranty, cheaper, smaller, lighter. The only downside is you don't get to put your M lenses on it.

But your M lenses become different on an M8 anyway due to the crop factor, so you may not even like them on the M8.

I don't shoot digital at all, but the X100 is a very nice looking camera, manual controls, and also you a slip it into Auto if you just want to take holiday snaps, ideal really.

Could not have said it better myself.... I just love it and with the size and carry a camera with me much more than before.... It is a perfect combination between an old rangefinder film camera and a digital modern camera... I still have my Nikon D80 and D90 and from time to time I shoot a roll in my Nikon S, S2, S3 but this one I will use a lot!

Jon R

Brian Sweeney

06-18-2011, 09:45

Some pictures with Jupiter-3's on the M8, put up by different RFF members. I end up with a J-3 on the M8 more than any other lens.

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=104530

PatrickCheung

06-19-2011, 14:26

I was facing the same problem a while ago. I plopped down the money for an X100 yesterday. Why? Because I couldn't justify the price of the M8... it's almost twice the price, older, second hand, without a warranty, has an older sensor which seems way worse than the x100's, the sensor was the main problem though. Shooting digital for most of my short photographic life... I've come to realize how fussy I am about noise. A lot of times the noise is what's ruining my shots... especially when you start losing detail, contrast and colour at high ISOs. The Fuji could handle low light like a beast, but the M8 seemed to have trouble (from what I saw from sample photos)... it seemed as if even my D200 could handle low light better than the M8!

Anyway, I gathered all the money I saved up and bought the X100. I'm loving it so far... much better than the D7000 + 35/2 combo I usually use. Much lighter, more portable, makes shooting fun :]

Hopefully that helped a bit...!

Mister E

06-19-2011, 15:06

The X100 is a much more capable camera while the M8 is a more versatile, finicky, red-dotted show piece.

colonel

06-20-2011, 07:51

The X100 is a much more capable camera while the M8 is a more versatile, finicky, red-dotted show piece.

The M8 produces beautifully clear and sharp pictures at ISO 160 and 320. I have taken great pictures at 640, 1250 and 2500. 2500 has grain and needs P&P but can look good in certain circumstances even in colour.
The extra DOF provided by the 1.3x of the M8 vs the Fuji x1.5 should also not be overlooked.

Its very fast to use. Finally its a beautiful "work of art" and has alot of owners' pleasure.

The X100 is better for high ISO but not pixel level clarity at base ISO. Its also lighter (although the M8 is lighter then most DSLRs and lighter then all with Leica lenses).
The X100 manual focus is rubbish and its auto-focus is not very fast, so you need to understand the focus system, use zone focus, or stick to non-moving subjects.
Otherwise the handling of the X100 is lovely.
Lastly the X100 is fixed at 34.5mm which is aweful for portraits but ok for architecture, landscapes and "in your face" street photography.

IMHO I would prefer the Fuji with a 50mm equiv.

In summary I think they are different cameras and would be careful to compare them.

The X100 is better when you need something to be pocket size or you are taking close-up street type photography in lower light, for all other things, including a holiday camera, I would personally go for the M8 every time.

raid

06-20-2011, 08:04

colonel

06-20-2011, 08:11

Both cameras are digital, and they have their limitations for what I like in photography.
The X100 is a single lens camera with automation. The M8 is not bad, but why have it?

My digital adventures may not last very long. I got the EP-2. It allows me to take good photos, but the film based cameras are a notch higher for manual control and film choice. I have been deliberately using the EP-2 for about 95% of all cases the past few months, other than my trip to Egypt.

Because its pictures with a Leica lens are simply superior to most cameras on the market. Combined with the lightweight and form factor its great for those that like the Leica way of doing photography.

Personally I would not compare the Ep-2 to either of these cameras. The micro 4/3s sensor is very poor. I have tried Pannys and Olys and sold them both on bitterly disappointed.

Keyne

06-20-2011, 08:55

If you already have a Leica then the answer seems obvious to me. M8 all the way. I havent seen the Fuji; it looks nice but its not a Rangefinder. Switching between and M6TTL and an M8 would be very easy from an ergonomic perspective. You would need to factor in the crop and screw on a filter but thats it. No need to learn an entirely new camera with the Fuji. I havent owned a Leica before but I REALLY love my M8. Also, I always used filters on all my lenses so I dont see the filter thing as a problem.

Another alternative... buy one or the other and try them... if you dont like it then sell it. Both hold their value well.

K

carino

06-22-2011, 02:37

The X100 is a real range finder when you use the optical view finder.
So I think this forum is placed under the wrong folder ;-)

In fact the X100 is a hybrid camera which is one of it's strengths I think.
I have the x100 for 1,5 weeks now and I am very happy with it.
The X100 is the first digital that lured me to finally switch from film to digital.

The X100 is quite different than the M8. You can not really compare them.
When you want to compare the X100 it should be with the Leica X1.
In that case the X100 beats the X1.
The M8 is bigger and heavier and doesn't have auto focus at all for instance.
But has other qualities like changeable lenses.
Remember: the best camera is the one you always take with you anywhere ;-)

klapka

08-17-2011, 12:37

Ok, finaly I have changed my mind.
I went for my 2 week family vacation to Egypt with a strong believe "X-100 is not for me". But there I gave it a better thought have read a lot of forums and have changed my oppinion to "X-100 is too expensive" as my local shop had 2 cameras sitting on a shelf for the price of 1500$. Having returned back I went to that shop just to give the camera a glance and saw a new price - 1200$. Took two more days for thinking all over.. and X-100 has won. Decided to get one and start saving for M9 instead of M8. When I came back to that shop intending to buy it I faced a new surprising price - it went down to 1000$. That's what I was happy to pay for that camera. The manager told me they have recieved 2 cameras in june but have sold none that is why they have reduced the price twice. He said that lots of people came to see the X-100, said, they liked it, but then bought various DSLRs instead.. Strange..

klapka

08-17-2011, 12:56

Now.. two more words about the camera itself: I liked it!
It is no way a replacement for M8 (as I thought it could be), M9 or any film Leica - because it is so much different and shooting it is different. But in this difference by itself the X-100 is as good as one may dream of. It's fun to use and it fits my basic criterion for any camera: I want to soot with it every time I think of it. A great camera indeed.
My very first test shots:

http://s009.radikal.ru/i308/1108/17/de75cbf93844.jpg

http://i014.radikal.ru/1108/0e/2e79676c757d.jpg

http://i033.radikal.ru/1108/61/12150b76bfab.jpg

http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/1108/23/15da8648ff84.jpg

http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/1108/2b/8574f60f7162.jpg

http://s015.radikal.ru/i332/1108/0b/3a58f45d1fb8.jpg

http://s54.radikal.ru/i144/1108/98/43b22dec7a14.jpg

David_Manning

08-17-2011, 13:24

I've been thinking about the X100 since it was announced. Functionally, it's like a Nikon D300S in a rangefinder body. Of course, it's not as fast, but neither was my M6. I say "was" because after paying another hefty bill for color processing and scanning (family vacation), I said enough. I sold the M6 kit and went X100.

Here are two samples. The b&w was converted in Nik SilverEfex Pro 2 to have HP5-like grain, the color was just a RAW file from Aperture 3.x:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6200/6054048616_453cb10305_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6068/6053569468_e7b266f122_b.jpg