View Full Version : New firmware with Focus Peaking
douglasf13
06-08-2011, 11:33
Well, it's official! Focus peaking is coming to NEX-3/5 in a couple of weeks. This should make manual focusing very quick and easy. I found this video illustrating it:
http://vimeo.com/24821210
This is a huge development, IMO.
Well, it's official! Focus peaking is coming to NEX-3/5 in a couple of weeks. This should make manual focusing very quick and easy. I found this video illustrating it:
http://vimeo.com/24821210
This is a huge development, IMO.
Are we sure this is not a feature just for the C3?
:)
Great! So looking forward to that. Now a full frame sensor and this focus mechanism in an EVF and its bye bye M9... :-)
douglasf13
06-08-2011, 15:41
Are we sure this is not a feature just for the C3?
:)
Yes: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&thread=38618021
Wow! I'm interested in a digital camera for the first time in ages!
kshapero
06-11-2011, 19:00
Are we sure this is not a feature just for the C3?
:)This feature is also for the NEX 3-5. It will be released on June 20th.
Great! So looking forward to that. Now a full frame sensor and this focus mechanism in an EVF and its bye bye M9... :-)
Tongue in cheek, I'm sure. However, this is big hit on the M8. I simultaneously want a better way to focus and an external viewfinder. If only they could set this up in the accessory slot, it would be fantastic. Otherwise, I'm juggling between peaking and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390314562957&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_3755wt_752
douglasf13
06-12-2011, 10:15
Tongue in cheek, I'm sure. However, this is big hit on the M8. I simultaneously want a better way to focus and an external viewfinder. If only they could set this up in the accessory slot, it would be fantastic. Otherwise, I'm juggling between peaking and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390314562957&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_3755wt_752
This will solve your problem, and it folds down smaller than an add-on EVF:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=38124924&changemode=1
This will solve your problem, and it folds down smaller than an add-on EVF:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=38124924&changemode=1
I have seen this. I'm unsure if the ergonomics and speed of deployment are what I'm going for, though. I'm also hoping that an EVF solution would be less of a battery drain than the built-in screen.
Cheers,
P
kshapero
06-19-2011, 12:56
June 20th Firmware 4.0 is available for download.
It is now...http://www.sony.jp/ichigan/info2/20110620_02.html
tom.w.bn
06-19-2011, 23:19
This will solve your problem, and it folds down smaller than an add-on EVF:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=38124924&changemode=1
Focussing without a real viewfinder looks already awkward. Not speaking of this. Perhaps they should add a tripod and a some cloth so that it looks like using a large format camera.
River Dog
06-20-2011, 00:45
It is now...http://www.sony.jp/ichigan/info2/20110620_02.html
Thanks a lot! I downloaded it and installed onto my NEX-3, using Google translator (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sony.jp%2Fichigan%2Fi nfo2%2F20110620_02.html&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8). The installer and firmware is multi-lingual and works just great. I set it to yellow-medium peaking.
This is straight out of the camera with a Zeiss 50mm ZM wide open at f2. It peaked on the cat's left ear, whiskers and left side of the collar - a very tight DOF.
It seems to work on contrast boundaries so expect it to be poor in low light and/or low contrast situations.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/5852359526_8c327d81a9_b.jpg
Still, this is like a whole new camera for me now. Quick, accurate focus was a real pain before. It also acts as a rather neat DOF preview i.e. more peaking as you close the aperture.
Just in time for my trip to Venice :)
If only I could get it to work :-( The firmware upgrader has problems seeing my camera through the whole process....
River Dog
06-20-2011, 02:52
Me too, at first. Wasn't reading the instructions properly. You have to start the installer program without the camera plugged in and switched off or it cannot initialise. Then plug it in and turn it on at the next step. Did you do that?
River Dog
06-20-2011, 02:58
Trying out the new picture modes. The "toy" setting just seems to pop the contrast and colours with a bit of a vignette then saves to JPEG. Quite a nice effect that I will not be using, as I always shoot RAW in A mode. The cat is getting the run around today :cool: f2 again.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/5852070337_f8c43eaf77_b.jpg
Well, it's official! Focus peaking is coming to NEX-3/5 in a couple of weeks. This should make manual focusing very quick and easy. I found this video illustrating it:
http://vimeo.com/24821210
This is a huge development, IMO.
This looks really nice!
I still prefer to look through a viewfinder. It could be a nice addition to EVFs, though. No EVFs in the NEX series, but I could imagine this in the Ricoh GXR with the forthcoming M-mount module.
River Dog
06-20-2011, 03:01
OK I just got the V4.0 upgrade for my first Nex-3 Body. I also selected "yellow" for "peaking color", and "high" for "peaking level".
What do you guys think the "peaking level" setting refers to?
My guess is that it just draws more pixels. I am now using "High" as well, much better in bright light. Worked great outside in bright sun, just now. Recommended.
It was a battery power issue. Gotta be over 50% to do the drill.
Seems to work really well with 1.2 lenses. Macro is iffy this evening.
The artistic stuff is interesting. In low light, red is not well-detected (but who cares! :-)
Nokton48
06-20-2011, 05:10
135mm F3.5 Canon RF wide-open.
Focus assist from V4 Focus-Peaking.
Foggy morning and shot through screen door besides.
"Breakfast"
Has anyone tried using focus peaking in "Posterization" Pic Style? It's quite a challenge to focus with this combo...
River Dog
06-20-2011, 06:31
Sadly the code writers at SONY are at war with Macintosh, and their software is designed to cause Kernel Panics on Macs. Pathetic software.
I am running OS X 10.6.7 and installed without issue.
douglasf13
06-20-2011, 07:07
Focussing without a real viewfinder looks already awkward. Not speaking of this. Perhaps they should add a tripod and a some cloth so that it looks like using a large format camera.
Well, there's really nothing awkward about using the hood/magnifier combo. If you're used to using a Hasselblad, it is second nature and works great.
With the longer FLs like the 135mm Elmarit-R it works like magic, however large aperture wide angles could be problematic. I measured the depth shown by peaking with a Summicron-R 35/2 at f2.0; it's almost triple large as the actual depth of field http://a.img-dpreview.com/forums/images/emoticon-sad.gif?777 I am afraid that for critical focus below 50mm the 7x/14x will stay as being the only reliable way..
So if you're focusing on a cat's face from 1m with a 50, can you isolate nose, eyes, ears with focus peaking, or do you need to go to 7x?
What's with the slow jog dial in drive mode?
Anyone test battery life?
River Dog
06-20-2011, 09:09
So if you're focusing on a cat's face from 1m with a 50, can you isolate nose, eyes, ears with focus peaking, or do you need to go to 7x?
Yes, with no magnification. Peaking worked fine in this situation. It is not great for very precise DOF focussing.
It has it's limits , but this focus peaking certainly is useful.
I don't have to hunt for the reading glasses if I'm setting up for a quick shot.
Also the ability to see if anything is in focus in bright sunlight is a boon as well if you don't have a clearviewer as yet.
I like it:)
I'm going to hold off a bit. The ability for the Nex without peaking, but with 7/14x mag to precisely allow you to focus to within the accuracy of hand holdability seems to be tossed out with the peaking, which highlights a "range of focus".
In other words, why not go back to an RF, or even scale focus, if you don't really want precision?
Now those art filters look fun though!
River Dog
06-20-2011, 11:12
I'm going to hold off a bit. The ability for the Nex without peaking, but with 7/14x mag to precisely allow you to focus to within the accuracy of hand holdability seems to be tossed out with the peaking, which highlights a "range of focus".
In other words, why not go back to an RF, or even scale focus, if you don't really want precision?
Now those art filters look fun though!
You can always switch it off :) I am getting more in focus more quickly with peaking. The magnifier is not ideal for street shooting.
Just updated..:)
Fun to use.....nice picture effects too...:D
douglasf13
06-20-2011, 11:46
Something to keep in mind is that changing your jpeg settings like sharpness, contrast, etc, can affect the strength of the peaking function. I haven't dialed it in perfectly yet, but I think this peaking thing is a difference maker.
well, I am trying it. So far, the focus peaking does little with a Canon 28/2.8, and a little more with the J3 50/1.5 @ 1.5, but still peaks at a wider range than is in perfect focus.
However, the scene effects are excellent. High contrast b/w, and toy camera modes are fantastic, the monocolor/bw and posterization are a bit novel. The retro is OK. Lots of fun!
I'm using peaking with yellow on medium. Anyone find a better selection? I've found the peaking useless in poserterization, but I'm not sure you need to focus in that scene mode.
kshapero
06-20-2011, 14:08
Focus peaking is awesome, makes using MF assist unnecessary.
The new scenes are pretty cool but you cannot use RAW with it so you are stuck with the mode. Would have liked to have seen it in RAW and then have a duplicate of the mode in the RAW software like Olympus does, so you can change it. Nevertheless a real nice upgrade especially for MF guys like us.
douglasf13
06-20-2011, 15:47
well, I am trying it. So far, the focus peaking does little with a Canon 28/2.8, and a little more with the J3 50/1.5 @ 1.5, but still peaks at a wider range than is in perfect focus.
However, the scene effects are excellent. High contrast b/w, and toy camera modes are fantastic, the monocolor/bw and posterization are a bit novel. The retro is OK. Lots of fun!
I'm using peaking with yellow on medium. Anyone find a better selection? I've found the peaking useless in poserterization, but I'm not sure you need to focus in that scene mode.
If you take the camera out of Picture Effect mode and use the normal Creative Style mode, adjusting various creative style parameters like contrast and sharpness can affect the effect of peaking, so you can dial it in a little more.
Just downloaded the software update, and it is way cool. I agree with previous posters that it is not as precise as using 7x or 14x, but I don't think that it makes much of a difference, unless you are pixel - peeping. Have to play around with it more, but it works pretty well with a wide-open J-3.
well, I am trying it. So far, the focus peaking does little with a Canon 28/2.8, and a little more with the J3 50/1.5 @ 1.5
So it seems useful, but the usefulness is somewhat limited if it works mainly with the equivalent of a very fast tele lens.
It's not that surprising, though. It works by detecting local contrast (i.e. if it's blurry, it's probably not in focus; if there are sharp edges, it's probably in focus). Consequently it works well with longer lenses that deliver a lot of blurriness, but not with shorter and/or slower lenses that don't.
Also I'd expect it to work well with Sony lenses that can be stopped down automatically, and not so well with adapted lenses that are stopped down manually. On the other hand this forces you to shoot wide-open with lots of blurriness in your shot, so you'll have to shoot that J3 in the f1.5-f2.8 range; if you stop it down it probably won't work well anymore. (You can stop down after focusing of course, but you lose part of the ease of through-the-lens focusing in the process, and also it means that NEX users now get to enjoy focus shift.)
but I don't think the function of it was to replace the 7x/14x focusing when that level is desired, it's just that in the non magnified view, it gives a quick rough idea of where your dof lies without having to press any buttons at all.
So say there are 3 subjects you are shooting and the left is in front of the center, and the right is behind the center. You can quickly focus selectively forward, so say the first and center are in best focus, or rear focus a bit so center and r subject are in best focus.
Yes, as you stop down (but more like f4/5.6/8+) it get's harder to focus on the single point (this is usually when I go for 14x), but most focus shift issues I've seen with RF's and Nikon lens have been in the fastest areas, and that's covered well, by the 7x/14x method on the nex, or probably most magnified live view systems, as well as SLR's with good screens and finders in stop down mode.
So it seems useful, but the usefulness is somewhat limited if it works mainly with the equivalent of a very fast tele lens.
It's not that surprising, though. It works by detecting local contrast (i.e. if it's blurry, it's probably not in focus; if there are sharp edges, it's probably in focus). Consequently it works well with longer lenses that deliver a lot of blurriness, but not with shorter and/or slower lenses that don't.
Also I'd expect it to work well with Sony lenses that can be stopped down automatically, and not so well with adapted lenses that are stopped down manually. On the other hand this forces you to shoot wide-open with lots of blurriness in your shot, so you'll have to shoot that J3 in the f1.5-f2.8 range; if you stop it down it probably won't work well anymore. (You can stop down after focusing of course, but you lose part of the ease of through-the-lens focusing in the process, and also it means that NEX users now get to enjoy focus shift.)
posterization example:
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Pets/kitty-slate-june-23-2011/i-XZK6Rrt/0/L/DSC03339-L.jpg
more here (http://matsumura.smugmug.com/Pets/kitty-slate-june-23-2011/17700063_87WXd4):
I just updated my NEX-5. Focus peaking works great on a 50mm lens, I haven't tried any others. I am not sure if it is faster than the focus assist (7x/14x), but I don't have to fiddle with zooming in which is nice. It was accurate at f1.4 on the 50mm, and easy to use.
Sample shot with peaking only at f1.4 and using my Zuiko 50mm lens.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/5866959473_305cf559a7_z.jpg
Now it's really a joy to manual focus... Perfect with my summilux50 and tele elmarit. 90
No need to recompose after focusing, everything is fast and precise (don't know with wide angles)
Nex+tele elmarit 90 @F2.8
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8150/samucalcio2.jpg
douglasf13
06-24-2011, 13:29
With the settings dialed in, this peaking thing is manual focus bliss, for me. Once you get a sense of how to judge the intensity of the color overlay, it becomes pretty easy. I'll probably only use 7x magnification on a tripod from here on out.
River Dog
06-25-2011, 00:23
Now it's really a joy to manual focus... Perfect with my summilux50 and tele elmarit. 90
No need to recompose after focusing, everything is fast and precise (don't know with wide angles)
Really nice shot and great lighting - was there any post-production? This demonstrates the faster focussing with the peaking function. It's a whole new camera for me now and I just bought the 16mm (24mm equivalent) as a cheap, wide prime. Don't like the fact that it automatically goes into the magnifier when you turn the focus ring in semi-autofocus, but it's still a solid package.
The higher ISO performance is also very impressive. With APS-C sensor this is now a competent digital back for my film lenses, as well as a high quality P&S with the 16mm.
I was tempted to trade it for a X100 before the firmware upgrade, but I will now stick with the versatile, tilting EVF (TLR style) and the interchangeable lens capability. The latter being a very reasonable expectation of the X100 for that price, as I am more interested in investing in the longevity of good glass.
I bought my NEX-3 as a refurbished Sony item, so with the 16mm it has cost me £350 ($560) versus around £1000 ($1600) for the X100 in the UK.
The dedicated Zeiss lenses planned for the NEX make for an interesting future on this platform.
Cue another test shot of the cat on the 16mm at f2.8, ISO 1000 & 1/30sec. No problem with peaking on the wide angle, wide open.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/5863806505_beeaffe2b1_b.jpg
Kudos to Sony!!
That upgrade was worth the waiting.
It's fantastic!
Really nice shot and great lighting - was there any post-production?
thanks, light was very nice, but there was a bit of color tweaking in lightroom
kshapero
07-03-2011, 15:35
How are we a week later?
kossi008
07-03-2011, 23:57
I've got mixed feelings about the focus peaking. It really does help to get the shot when speed is the issue. But I sometimes find it distracting when trying to compose at a more leisurely pace... Still better to have this option than not, I guess...
The big plus of focus peaking is that you don't have to use the 7x/14x magnification as much to focus accurately. With longish lenses, 7x and expecially 14x magnification makes the image jumpy.. OK, maybe I'm not keeping the camera steady, but not having to magnify does help in not getting seasick.
The real bees knees of the V04 firmware to me however, is the picture effect mode. When deciding between NEX and Oly-Pen, that was what almost tipped the balance in favor of the EPL1. Sure, these effects can be done in post processing, but having modes like 'toy camera' on the go is such fun..
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