Bessa R the right choice for me?

[unfocuzed]

Welp to make it short. My N80 was stolen and all i have shot in my short years of photography have been film SLRs. I was planning on going with a Minolta A2 digital but the cost is a tad high and the performance at high isos with these cameras is not what i would like.

I have gotten very interest in rangefinders in the past week or two and the bessa R is 400 from cameraquest with a 35mm lens and i found a auction on ebay with a canon 50mm and nikon 50mm and the 35mm for pretty cheap. I have a minolta dimage scan dual III and it is not the best scanner by far but i would get a better one eventually. I like street photography but am a general all around photographer and shoot lots of nature and sports photography too. Do you guys think a bessa R would be a good choice for me? I would like to have the instantness of digital but i think i would miss film and the performance is not as good as i would like.


One last question. I am an amateur with night photo and would love to get into it but the problem is with the 1 second max time it'd be hard to meter with the bessa. Would i need to get a handheld meter then to figure out my times or just learn?


Any opinions are much appreciated.

Thank you

[Rich Silfver]

Hi and welcome.

all i have shot in my short years of photography have been film SLRs

Then if you have a chance I'd really urge you to see if you can try a rangefinder camera out at a local camera store. It IS a different experience.


like street photography but am a general all around photographer and shoot lots of nature and sports photography too. Do you guys think a bessa R would be a good choice for me?

If you're into nature and sports photography you will need an SLR to keep you happy (and macro photography is a pain or near impossible). When it comes to street photography a rangefinder is really fun to use and works well in most situations.

One last question. I am an amateur with night photo and would love to get into it but the problem is with the 1 second max time it'd be hard to meter with the bessa. Would i need to get a handheld meter then to figure out my times or just learn?

You can do night photography with any camera that have a B (bulb) setting. Meter with a handheld meter, use a tripod and operate the shutter with a cable release.

Not wanting to discourage you from rangefinder cameras but would be curious to know more about your needs and what it is that attracts you to RF's. Reason for questioning your decision is that since your camera was stolen you would need to take into consideration that with your diverse photographic subject matters you will need an SLR to compliment the rangefinder - another thing to keep in mind when figuring out the budget.

[unfocuzed]

Thank you for the quick response. Rangefinders kind of drew me in under the fact i love shooting all manual cameras and the way they worked intrigued me. I saw images of a few people whom's photography i liked and they shot with rangefinders and i liked the results. Some people on photo.net suggested a rangefinder to me and really like the idea.

If you think that i would need an SLR to stay happy then i might have to stay with one for now and end up getting a RF later on like maybe next year. My extent with sports photography is more of just me shooting mountain biking and the style i prefer isn't really a closely zoomed in with tons of flashes and such it is more of a backed off shot with natural lighting so i think i could do this with an RF. In terms of nature i do like macros but don't tend to shoot them often but i like shooting scenary and things in nature but nothing to tight and specific on animals and such.

My budget is quite tight it is gonna be one camera or the other i just was interested in the RF because i saw a bessa R with a few lenses for a good deal on ebay and seemed like i could save the money to pay off my debt i have with my mountain bikes to the parents.

[Rich Silfver]

Well...if you won't miss macro...and don't do bird/animal close-ups in nature....you may still be a RF candidate ;)

Let's see...

a) What's your favorite focal length?

b) Whats the longest focal length you use/need?

Also - Do you have a site online with examples of photos you've taken and that you would like to continue to take - but now with a rangefinder camera?

I hate to recommend this but one option is to get a cheap fixed lens RF camera to 'see how you like it'. You can get a good one for 50-60 dollars and if you hate it you can hopefully sell it (maybe even here) for little or no loss.

If you DON'T like it...simply move on and dont look back... :)
If you DO like it...take the decision if a RF can be your only camera..and at that point spring for a new Bessa.

(Hmm..makes me think we should have a 'loaner' set of cameras for RF newbies...they can borrow it for a week and just pay postage both ways :) )

People here would be able to give you a number of recommendations on a cheap fixed rf camera to get. Canonet QL17 and Olympus 35RC are two potential candidates.

Anyway you can rent a Bessa at your local store for a weekend..?

Finally here's a write-up on the Bessa R by one of the members here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=312

UPDATE:

Took a look at your photosite and with very few exceptions you could have taken all those photos with a rangefinder camera.
After seeing your photography I think you may very well be happy with a rangefinder camera.

Guess a picture says a thousand words :)

(I still say see if you can try one before buying!).

Also - don't rule out digital...take into account what film, developing and upgrading your scanner will cost over one, two three years - and compare to a digital camera with a couple of memory sticks.

Always keep your options open and research before you decide :)

[Kris]

I will throw my worthless 2 cents too. But Richard is much more experienced so take his words more seriously.

A rangefinder as your primary, the only one camera you have is not a very good idea to me. By not seeing through the lens it is hard to see the perspective (size of subject in relation to background) created by wide angle lenses. DOF preview is another. Then focusing accuracy with telephoto lenses. I've got 75/2.5 and have tossed lots of close up portrait shots due to focusing error. Polariser is also a PITA to use in conjunction with RF.

Street photography does not need a rangefinder. Jeff Spirer http://www.spirer.com/ one of P.net member I respect do lots of street shooting with SLR. I used to be shy too to point a camera at strangers and thought if I had a small RF camera, I would be taking more photos. Nope. It depends on how strong is your will to grab the shot.

PS: Pardon me guys. I know this is a forum for RF cameras but don't you agree SLR is more versatile?

[GeneW]

Originally posted by Kris
PS: Pardon me guys. I know this is a forum for RF cameras but don't you agree SLR is more versatile?
I personally couldn't live without an SLR. I take a lot of macros and tele shots (300mm and over). In the normal-to-wa range though, especially for available light shots, I prefer RF.

Gene

[Todd.Hanz]

unfocuzed,
You said your N80 was stolen? You want to get that Bessa with the xtra lenses? You like manual focus cameras?

My advice would be to get the bessa kit and then shop for a manual Nikon SLR like an FM, FE2, F2, F3, etc. I have seen some excellent deals on FE2's and others lately, some under 100 bucks. I am guessing you still have some Nikon glass left so you could have the best of both worlds.
Godd luck and keep us posted!

Todd

[back alley]

i answered your question on the photo.net site and still think the bessa deal is a great option.

just a note to you guys - i don't own or use a slr anymore and i don't miss it all.
i mostly used a 35/85 combo, rarely used long glass, didn't take close ups or bird on the wire shots.
i had lenses from 24 to 300 and mostly used the 2 mentioned.

while i agree that the slr is more versatile they are not necessarily the end all for everyone.

former owner of-
miranda sensoret (?)
canon f1/ftb
oly om 1/2
nikon f2
canon eos 1n

joe

[Wayne R. Scott]

I am going to go along with Todd (sorta). I would get a manual focus Nikon SLR probably an F3HP, or FM3a or FM2 and small fixed lens rangefinder like the Canon Ql-17 GIII. Then after playing with the rangefinder with the standard lens (which by the way can be used for 80-90% of what most people shoot anyway) take the plunge for a Bessa, or Leica (gasp) or get a really good camera like the Contax IIA:).

But what do I know? I'm just guy typing on a key board.

Wayne

Note to Joe: You sold a Nikon F2? How could you!!!!:(

[unfocuzed]

Thanks for all the help guys. I think i am going to hold off on the RF till i get a primary camera. My uncle has a full Nikon F3HP setup that he might let me borrow for a long time so i might be able to grab that and if i can then i most likely will pickup a RF. If i can't do that i might just get the digital and wait till xmas or my bday next year and get an RF.


Thank you very much for the friendly "newb" friendly responses.

[back alley]

we are a friendly bunch here and don't hammer newbies just for the fun of it.

joe

[Doug]

Hi — I agree with Richard’s comments... If your nature shots wouldn’t involve focusing closer than about 2 or 3 feet, or need telephoto lenses longer than 135mm, then an RF might be as suitable as an SLR for that.

When I think of sports photograpy, I think first of telephoto zoom lenses and motorized SLRs, but if you can get close to the action then an RF would be fine. It could be an advantage in the middle of the action, like onboard a racing yacht.

I’ve come to think of the RF as a “people camera”, and viewfinder framing is more approximate. Of course there’s a lot of overlap in functionality between RFs and SLRs, while each has limitations in certain areas. But like Kris says an SLR is a very versatile instrument!

Definitely look for a more sensitive hand-held meter if you’ll be shooting in dim light. Through-the-lens camera meters have advantages with filters and different focal length lenses, and other strange stuff you might put on the front of the camera, but they’re actually at a disadvantage in dim light. The lens itself, and any stuff attached to it, reduces the amount of light passing through to the meter cell. A non-TTL camera meter will usually have better sensitivity, and a sensitive hand-held meter like one of the Gossen Luna models can be very useful, reading on down to EV-1 or better.

Advising other people what to get can be a difficult thing, but that doen’t often stop us from trying! Have fun... :-)

[Huck Finn]

Unfocuzed, while the Bessa R is an attractive price, it is a screw mount camera. When it comes time for you to make a purchase, be sure to try changing lenses on the Bessa R before you buy. It's much different than what you are used to on your SLR - not fast.

For all the reasons that others have stated, a mechanical SLR would seem to be the best choice for you - since what attracted you to rangefinders is the manual operation. You are familiar with Nikon & they have a wide range of new & used manual focus cameras readily available. Good luck!

[Brian Sweeney]

"A non-TTL camera meter will usually have better sensitivity, and a sensitive hand-held meter like one of the Gossen Luna models can be very useful, reading on down to EV-1 or better."

This is very true: Most SLR's go to about EV1. My F2AS and F2Sb meter to EV -2. That is lower than the F3, F4, and F5. The F2S also meters to EV-2, but takes up to 30 minutes to settle in. The F2 even has an 8 second exposure to go with that EV-2 reading; not bad for an all-mechanical 30 year old camera.

[Doug]

Right, and the Bessa meters down to EV+1 at ISO 100. I think the regular Gossen Luna Pro reads down to EV-4, while my Luna Star F does EV-2.5

I'm amazed those Nikons would get down to -2

Several Bessa users have thought there was something wrong with their camera meter, as it seems to give anomalous readings below its sensitivity limit, rather than just packing up.

[unfocuzed]

One last question as the Bessa might be possible for me still. I might be borrowing my uncles F3HP for when i need it doing sports and other stuff but the main reason i want an RF is the simplicity and the size. I hate carrying around huge SLR setups which is the main reason i don't take my camera with me half the time.

Anyway the Bessa R is the screw mount a pain in the ass or what? I think the 400 dollars for camera and lens is wonderful but because the paint, maybe the slowness in changing lenses, I dunno what the ratcheting advance means so i'm not to worried about that.

If anyone can help with these it is much appreciated.

Thanks

[GeneW]

Others here may have different opinions, but for me, yes, screwmount lenses are a PITA to change. Especially if you change lenses frequently.

I owned a Pentax screwmount SLR for years and really disliked the time it took to change lenses. Got an OM-1 with bayonet mount and loved it.

To me it's the same with M-mount vs screwmount -- that's why I'd rather go with an R2.

But, it's a personal thing. You might not be bothered by it.

Gene

[Huck Finn]

Unfocuzed, I only know the Bessa R from looking at it in the store. I didn't buy it because changing lenses seemed like it would be a pain. However, the Bessa R works well if you want to put one lens on it & stick with that one lens. It offers the flexibility for you to use that same body & switch to another lens & then stick with that lens for a while. I think that it will be a problem if you are switching back & forth - as I sometimes do. Only you can decide how you will shoot. In addition to its price, another benefit of the Bessa R is that Voigtlander lenses will be cheaper for that body because you won't have the additional cost of an M-mount adaptor as you will when purchasing lenses for the R2. (90% of Cosina's Voigtlander rangefinder lenses are screw mount.)

It seems to me that you also have another choice. Rangefinder cameras are only simpler than SLRs because that's the way they are used. A manual SLR with prime lenses can be every bit as back-to-basics as a rangefinder. An SLR set-up doesn't have to be big & bulky. Yes, the lenses will be somewhat bigger, but the body? Not much. The Nikon FM-10 is made by Cosina for Nikon & is the SLR version of the Bessa-R. Same size body, more compact than the F3. It is selling at B&H for $210 new with a manual focus 35-70 AIS lens - all mechanical, no autofocus. That still leaves money to add a manual focus 50/1.8 AIS lens as a fast, fixed focal length option - also all mechanical, no AF. Cost = $120. Total = $330. Cheaper the the Bessa. Except for SLR vs rangefinder focusing, your use of this wouldn't be much different than the Bessa & with the 50/1.8 on the camera, it would also be compact.

However, it sounds like you've been bitten by the rangefinder bug. That's how many of us here got started. If so, indulge yourself with the Bessa R & 35/2.5 set-up. It's a reasonably priced way to start if the other option doesn't excite you.

[unfocuzed]

Thanks a bunch for the tips. I think if i do get a RF it'll be a new bessa but right now i am still going to hunt around and look for used ones around my local shops.

[back alley]

temptation? (http://www.photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=584999)

hey un,
thought you might want to see this.

joe

[rover]

Hi Unfocuzed, you have gotten a lot of good advise, so I will not contradict any of that. I do have a Bessa R and an R2 though.

Both cameras are very nice. I keep my R in the bottom half of its ever-ready case when shooting and to be quite honest with you, I have not felt a difference in the feel of either camera. I have used them side by side all this week. Both cameras seem to feel very similar in use, and wieght. The R2 does have a nice textured finish to it, and a much more solid feeling rear door, but when in its case that is a non-issue for the R. You mention a paint issue. I have had my R for 18 months or so and the finish is like new still. And as for the lens changing, yes it can be a PITA, but to be honest with you, I have gotten pretty good at it. I also find that when I am walking around and shooting I tend to stick with one lens, so no big deal for me in general. That is a matter of shooting style though, if you need lots of focal lengths, then this would be a bigger issue, but not something that can't be overcome.