View Full Version : lens prices rising...
I was shocked to see how the price of second-hand classic lenses is rising. Just looked around at KEH. Their UG rigid summicron is $750, BGN $1000 and more. Even BGN 90mm Elmarits cost over $450. eBay the same. I remember they were around $200 less than a year ago. What's up....? Everybody buying Leica glass suddenly?
It has been this way for months. Prices are currently at an all time high (as far as I know).
back alley
05-08-2011, 11:57
gas is up
groceries are up
why should lenses be any different?
Lots of I should haves based on the current prices. Bargains on lenses are fewer and much far between bargains on M bodies.
many theories. dollar devaluation, Chinese buying crazy, popularity of M9..
Not matter that prices are up, you can't even find lenses for sale.
Question is, is that good for us RFF'rs or is it bad? More interest in RFs = more interest in film (perhaps), but if all the nice hardware is leaving, what's left for us?
ZeissFan
05-08-2011, 13:13
It seems that prices for lenses in many mounts are rising, just not Leica.
I think some of it is due to the mirrorless bodies. High-speed lenses seem to be rising the fastest, even in orphaned mounts such as the Rollei/Voigtlander QBM.
steelydam
05-08-2011, 17:34
I think some of it is due to the mirrorless bodies.
I have been thinking the same thing. I just got a Sony NEX; if I didn't see someone here on RFF talking about putting Contax
G lenses on theirs, I would have never even bothered to pay attention to this camera. The ability to put all kinds of different lens mounts on it is huge.
ZeissFan
05-08-2011, 17:57
A guy at work has the Panasonic G1 and GF1, and he has adapters for Nikon and Olympus Pen glass. He's showed me some of his photos, and I was impressed with what he showed me, particularly the ones taken with the Olympus Pen lenses.
Steve M.
05-08-2011, 18:00
As the amount of classic lenses is finite, and their total number is getting smaller from attrition, the prices will continue to rise. That, along w/ the fact that some camera makers now make bodies that are specifically designed to accept those classic lenses. So, more cameras, combined w/ less lenses, equals higher prices.
The mirrorless conection may be so for the price increases, but like someone else mentioned you can't even find new ones.
So if you don't already have what you need now, you probably won't see it for some time (in your camera bag that is). :(
The price rise even extends to the Leica R glass. I've been selling off my R glass for more than I paid for it, some 10 to 15 years ago. But it's hard to sell an R body unless it has a lens attached. I think the buyers are converting the lenses for use on Canon and Nikon bodies.
adamjohari
05-09-2011, 00:57
I think the prices will go back to average soon. I posted a lens on the classifieds, it's still there, for what I think is an excellent price and no one took a bite. O_O
Adam
dogberryjr
06-30-2011, 06:17
It's spread to all kinds of lenses now—here's a Hexanon UC offered at $2199! eBay item: 270773656993
Dr Gaspar
06-30-2011, 06:23
A 1950' Elmarit M 90mm goes for 500$ here. Half the price of a new X100.
A little too much.
trph_2000
06-30-2011, 06:28
With regard to Leica,it is very difficult to find almost any new lens with the exception of the Summarits, and even they are becoming more difficult. I think that Leica will direct more of their manufacturing capability to the
lenses that are easiest to produce, such as the new 21 and 24 mm slower lenses and the 35mm Summicron. The fast lenses require more bench time and hand testing and will be made in limited quantities. Very difficult to get a new 35 Summilux Asph II or 0.95 Noctilux.
tbarker13
06-30-2011, 07:40
Looks like a lot of sellers are sort of prospecting - tossing their gear out there at inflated prices and hoping for the best. Definitely not a great time to be a buyer.
hipsterdufus
06-30-2011, 07:46
I agree with Double Negative. Don't feed into the frenzy. If there's a focal length you *must* have, I would consider the Zeiss, Canon, CV, and Nikon alternatives before committing to Leica. We are lucky that there are at least a few other manufacturers to consider in the lens market.
I just wonder why prices in Tokyo`s well known camera shops have been stable ... :eek:
randolph45
06-30-2011, 08:03
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pho/2468690760.htm (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pho/2468690760.html)
lhttp://sacramento.craigslist.org/pho/2470694864.html (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pho/2468690760.html)
and another 2
dogberryjr
06-30-2011, 08:09
I agree with Double Negative. Don't feed into the frenzy.
I'm not certain what impact an RFF embargo might have; I suspect we are minor players in the big scheme. I have a de facto embargo happening anyway, it's called low bank balance.
jsrockit
06-30-2011, 08:18
There has to be a supply shortage of some material...because it isn't only leica or zeiss that has been affected.
People keep forgetting that Leica, as a company, is not the size of Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji etc. etc. etc. - I do not know for a fact but I can guess (as many are here already) that they're having a tough enough time keeping up demand for M9's and M9-P's plus any film cameras that they're making (M7 & MP a la cartes as well as "regular" bodies).
So, with that in mind, any used lenses out there that go up for sale now command a premium... combine that with Leica's "usual" price increase on their new lenses and the used lenses now go up in price... not an easy pill to swallow but that's what you get for dealing with the red dot :)
Cheers,
Dave
Thanks. Very interesting, informative, and helpful thread!
I had considered selling an M2 in 2007 and didn't bother after seeing the prices. Today I checked ebay and was shocked to see how much higher the prices are.
I have 2 M2's (with self timer) and an M6. Both M-2's have the quick load spool and rapid rewind crank. Don't need both M2's.
Lenses - I only use the 35 mm /f2 summicron. Never use the 50/f2 summicron and after reading this thread decided I should sell that too. I have the 90/f2.8 elmarit which I'll probably keep.
Wondering, though, how much higher the prices will go if I hold on to it for another 4 years since it'll be even more scarce then but don't think it makes sense.
So - now all I have to do is take some pix and decide where to list it. Thanks again for everyone's insights.
Brian Legge
07-04-2011, 10:13
Hah, yeah, I wish I'd gotten into rangefinders a few years earlier. I missed the crazy deal time period. It isn't that M prices today are unfair as much as they are just high end for me. :)
I was thinking about making the jump from screwmounts but can't justify it to myself given the price difference. I did see a M2 on ebay for ~$570 a few days ago. Maybe if I purge a bunch of stuff I'll be more comfortable spending that much on a camera some time. haha
David Murphy
07-04-2011, 10:31
I've always suspected that the rising fees at eBay are part of the problem. Sellers can now expect to pay eBay+PayPal about 10-15% of the final sales price (including shipping price) as their fee.
This has had three consequences:
1) These fees are now passed on to buyers as a 10-15% price increase
2) The fee increases have led many small sellers of collectibles to avoid selling on eBay, leading to fewer better quality items being sought by just as many buyers as before, creating upward price pressure
3) eBay is used as a major benchmark for the pricing of used camera equipment (they are the dominant used market place now) and the rest of the market follows.
The other factors such as increasing hobbyist demand, reduced supply, inflation, declining dollar, affluent buyers from Asia, fewer traditional camera dealers, the ability of many digital cameras to use legacy glass, etc. no doubt contribute to the upward price trend.
Brian Legge
07-04-2011, 10:38
I totally agree with your assessment David. I've assumed inflation in the US and growing economies around the world were the biggest factors.
I just compared prices of M2's and M lenses on camera store website - KEH (via Amazon) B&H, and Adorama - with ebay and ebay prices seem to be less.
fotomeow
07-04-2011, 11:26
"Well son, I was gonna give you a savings bond for your graduation, but I've decided to give you a 1940s Leica lens. I know you dont have a camera to use it on, but just put that in your savings deposit box, wait 20 years, and sell it to add to your retirement account"
nikon_sam
07-04-2011, 12:05
I've noticed the lenses I've been watching have gone up a bit lately...
The Mamiya m645 80mm 1.9 has been selling for some crazy prices...yesterday one sold for $360 and that was a BIN auction... others have sold in the same ballpark...I bought a Mamiya m645 1000s w/PDS prism and 80mm 1.9 for $300 about 5 years ago...
Other Mamiya's (55, 80 2.8, 110, 150 & 210) have gone up too but not like the 80mm 1.9 or the 35mm 3.5...
The Takumar 50mm 1.4 is in the $120 range now (just for the lens)
The Olympus Pens are getting pricey too...
These are just a few that I watch...I don't watch for Leica lenses...
sbelyaev
07-04-2011, 13:25
Everything is getting more expensive. Gas, milk, tobacco, cars, bread, soda...
Around the time when digital technology was immature and film was going out there was some hesitancy regarding the future of GOOD rangefinder lenses. As the result the prices were RELATIVELY low.
With introduction of M8, M9 and mirror-less cameras many started to realize that the properly designed lenses could last for more than lifetime of current buyers and sellers. The lenses could be used with film and multiple current and future digital bodies. The price of the lens is relatively irrelevant, if one plans on owing it for several decades.
Leica is a niche company. It will make sure that the demand is high by providing a limited number of brand new lenses.
This is what other high-end companies do....
Try to order a birkin bag from hermes..
buzzardkid
07-04-2011, 13:53
:eek::eek:All this thread does is convince me not to sell any surplus lenses any more, since I'll be losing money if I ever decide that the sale was a mistake and I want to buy them again!:eek::eek:
dogberryjr
07-04-2011, 14:02
:eek::eek:All this thread does is convince me not to sell any surplus lenses any more, since I'll be losing money if I ever decide that the sale was a mistake and I want to buy them again!:eek::eek:
What's a "surplus lens?" Is that like "excess beer," "extra money" or "leftover pizza?"
andredossantos
07-04-2011, 14:29
Even though prices are going crazy, there are still deals to be found. You have to be patient and act fast. I recently got a pristine 50mm Cron at a great price. Waited months to find it though.
Was recently looking for a thin tele-elmarit, after a lot of patience I manage to buy one for $650 and considered it a bargain!
shaunmlavery
07-04-2011, 18:42
"Well son, I was gonna give you a savings bond for your graduation, but I've decided to give you a 1940s Leica lens. I know you dont have a camera to use it on, but just put that in your savings deposit box, wait 20 years, and sell it to add to your retirement account"
Ha, I did just that, only for me. With the prices rising and rising, I stumbled upon a black chrome M4 that I can use as a backup to my M8's. I looked at it as a nice tangible investment that I can enjoy. :D
As far as the crazy lens prices, yeah!, I have felt that as well. I recently sold/traded my 35 summicron asph fora noctilux. At the time, I hated myself for giving up my small perfect 35. However, with glass prices climbing and climbing, this has been a smart move. Looking back, I purchased my M6 and 35 Cron asph for nearly the price sold my M6 for a few months back! Insane!
People always have the notion that shooting a leica is expensive or driving a certain car is only for the rich. This is so far from the truth. I get sick of those stereotypes.
nikon_sam
07-04-2011, 19:04
Even though prices are going crazy, there are still deals to be found. You have to be patient and act fast. I recently got a pristine 50mm Cron at a great price. Waited months to find it though.
That's key to getting what you want...
Plus you need to have a game plan and you need to stick with it...do your homework first, know what you want, research it, find the exact version, black or chrome, coated or uncoated, what range in serial numbers and then sit and wait for it...when you find it, make it yours...:cool:
The market here is weird. I had trouble selling a perfect Summitar a short while back, then I had 6 really quick offers for an also perfect Summar just last weekend. I probably could have gotten more for the latter.
bobby_novatron
07-04-2011, 21:47
I think David Murphy hit it on the head with his post -- there are numerous murky and anecdotal forces at work here. I have noticed the price rises as well, and I only got into developing a rangefinder collection about 2 years ago.
In that short time, I have noticed that the m-mount lenses I purchased 18 months ago in the secondary market have now risen about 40% in value.
I'd agree that reasonable deals can still be found, but you have to be patient.
It would be interesting to know what our sisters and brothers in the SLR world have been experiencing. Have Canon / Nikon / Sigma lenses risen the same amount in the secondary market?
I did notice in a recent Google search that a Contax 645 with Zeiss 80/2 standard lens recently sold for $1900 in a buy-it-now situation. That's about $400 higher than early 2010. Strange, indeed.
Some lenses have had strange shifts in value IMO. A few years ago a 100mm lens for an RF645 Bronica was fetching $1100.00 and up. I sold mine on eBay a few months ago and got half that!
When Brian Sweeney sells his lens collection (not likely) he won't just be able to buy the new M10 or M9.2 ... he may put in a takeover bid for Leica itself! :D
Brian Sweeney
07-05-2011, 01:38
Now what would I do if I owned Leica....
Now what would I do if I owned Leica....
... a M-mount version of the original Sonnar, 6-bit coded !:D;)
When Brian Sweeney sells his lens collection
If that happens and Brian floods the market, the laws of offer and demand are telling us that the price of all lenses will crash down to almost nothing..:)
It would be interesting to know what our sisters and brothers in the SLR world have been experiencing. Have Canon / Nikon / Sigma lenses risen the same amount in the secondary market?My sense of this is yes, at least for Nikon products, a major factor has been the tsunami. I bought a used pro zoom 3 years ago that I'm now selling on and I'll get about 30% more than I paid for it.
I'm just really thankful that my Leica lens buying ended about a year ago after I finally figured out that I had everything I needed. The real shocker for me recently was seeing a BP E46 pre-ASPH 50 Summilux sell for $3900, I bought that lens last year in better condition for $1600! Incredible, but in the case of the dearth of the Leica 35 & 50mm lenses it's the M9. Lots of factors involved across the board.
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