View Full Version : Curses! Foiled again!
This isn't very relevant to anything, but I figured this was the forum where people were most likely to sympathize:
A rough-but-apparently-functional Contax IIIa with 50/1.5 Opton Sonnar went on eBay today for $131. I had been watching this with the idea of trying to bag it at the last minute, but the auction ended while I was at work and stuck in a meeting.
If I had just entered my planned $150 maximum bid, instead of being clever and trying to snipe, I would have bagged it. Even after paying its $285 tuition at the Henry Scherer Academy, I figure I would have been ahead.
Drat!
My sympathies. I have the same potential problem towards the end of the week, a meeting scheduled for when something is ending on eBay. I will try to avoid your fate...
Well, I feel for you - a Leica M3 I had on my watchlist went for 300-and-something Euros on Ebay today, but of course I came back a day later than expected from a trip. But then again, it is really an M2 that I'm lusting after (even more so after comparing 'denishr's M2, M3 and M6).
Roman
CleverName
08-29-2005, 19:28
This is just my opinion, but all sniping at the last minute does is make the the sniper think he got a great deal and piss off the other guy who bid.
If you try to snipe something and the other guy already has a bid in for more than your bid, you're still gonna lose. It doesn't matter if you put your bid in the day it's listed or the last second, if it's the highest bid it wins.
I used to get mad at snipers, but I guess it's just part of the game. Now I just bid what I'm willing to pay and wait for the auction to end.
Ah, but you are missing the point of sniping. Why put in your absolute highest bid right away when there is a possibility of getting it for a lot less at the last second? Besides, you never know when you will run into some newby with zero feedback who will top a bid placed early even if it's the absolute maximum the camera is worth. Same thing happens auctions around our area when someone who is experienced gets caught up in the bidding and pays more for a five-year-old air compressor than it would cost new at Sears.
This is just my opinion, but all sniping at the last minute does is make the the sniper think he got a great deal and piss off the other guy who bid.
If you try to snipe something and the other guy already has a bid in for more than your bid, you're still gonna lose. It doesn't matter if you put your bid in the day it's listed or the last second, if it's the highest bid it wins.
I know -- I've already worked out through game theory that sniping as a strategy doesn't pay, since there's no information available about how high other bidders would be willing to go, and ties always go to the earlier bid. But I don't want to get that argument started again! Some people enjoy sniping, and that's that.
I don't enjoy it, and usually I don't do it if I come across something I KNOW I want. What gets me into trouble (if you can consider getting to keep your money in your pocket "trouble") is when I'm not sure whether I want to bid or not... I procrastinate, think, "there are still a couple of days left to think it over, I can always jump in at the last minute if I decide to go for it..." and sometimes I get burned.
Ah, well, that Contax probably was a piece of junk anyway -- if I really, really wanted one, the smart thing to do would be to send Henry a sack of money and let him handle it...
JoeFriday
08-29-2005, 20:01
I lost out on a very nice Summicron yesterday when I didn't make it back from the store before the auction ended.. so it seems to be contagious
but you do realize that it's entirely possible that you wouldn't have gotten it for your $150 max bid, anyway.. it's possible that would have beat out the actual winner.. and it's also possible that the winner had a max bid in at $200.. so don't lose too much sleep over it.. and there will always be another Contax/Sonnar coming up for sale
I lost out on a very nice Summicron yesterday when I didn't make it back from the store before the auction ended.. so it seems to be contagious
but you do realize that it's entirely possible that you wouldn't have gotten it for your $150 max bid, anyway...
Yeah, I know. As I said, I've game-theoried this whole thing.
Still, that's what makes eBay work -- fear of irrational regret. It's like when you think, "Drat, I was only one number away from winning the lottery," even though every non-winning number is just as likely as every other non-winning number.
What's really good about this is that by the time the next postwar Contax/West German 1.5 Sonnar comes up, I'll have remembered all the things I didn't like about the one I used to have (having to lift the shutter-speed dial to change speeds; the squinty eyepiece; the uncertainty about the location of picture edges in the non-framed finder; having to turn the camera over to see the revolving f/numbers...) and do something sensible instead, like keep my money in my pocket, or spend it on stuff for my more modern, more usable Canons and Bessa, and leave the Contaxes to the serious Contax enthusiasts.
Okay, I feel better now...
Someone has to fess up, who got it?
I bid on a Canon P then lost my connection to the internet at work. When I got home I learned I didn't win the camera, but later found out that ray_g did!!:D At least I got to meet her in person and hold her.
I normally snipe when there is something I really want, but sometimes I just bid, and even win. Ebay is a hobby all by itself.
This is just my opinion, but all sniping at the last minute does is make the the sniper think he got a great deal and piss off the other guy who bid.
If you try to snipe something and the other guy already has a bid in for more than your bid, you're still gonna lose. It doesn't matter if you put your bid in the day it's listed or the last second, if it's the highest bid it wins.
I used to get mad at snipers, but I guess it's just part of the game. Now I just bid what I'm willing to pay and wait for the auction to end.
If every bidder would just bid their max, then walk away, there'd be no problem. The problem is the people who up their bid when they see someone else has topped it - a bidding war. I also get really stressed watching the last minute of an auction and waiting to drop my bid in late - my heart literally starts pounding like I've run up a set of stairs! These days, if I'm serious about an item, I'll lodge my maximum bid with a sniper service, then ignore it till after the auction has ended. That way I stick to my maximum bid and I don't contribute to a bidding war. And my heart rate stays relatively normal. :)
zuikologist
08-30-2005, 04:21
At lease you guys do not completely organise your lives around ebay ending times, or do you..............
oftheherd
08-30-2005, 05:59
Although I bid both ways, I firmly set what my limit will be, and don't go above it. Sometimes as someone else stated, I worry that if I bid too early, someone else will just bid over it when I might get it by sniping. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I figure I win either way.
KoNickon
08-30-2005, 05:59
Hmm -- I probably do organize my life that way to some extent!
I am guilty of sniping recently. I bid early on a chrome 150 Sonnar for my Hasselblad and got outbid, but kept my eye on it. Ended up bidding $5 above the then-highest bid with just a few seconds to go and got it, for $310, which I think is the lowest I've ever seen that lens. I bid, as much as anything, to assure myself the high bidder in fact had bid higher than what I was planning to bid. I would have been ticked off to see the lens go for so cheap to someone else. I was quite surprised to get it.
Someone has to fess up, who got it?
I bid on a Canon P then lost my connection to the internet at work. When I got home I learned I didn't win the camera, but later found out that ray_g did!!:D At least I got to meet her in person and hold her.
Do you refer to Canon Ps in the feminine gender?
Or are you telling us something about ray_g that will come as a surprise to many?
Do you refer to Canon Ps in the feminine gender?
Or are you telling us something about ray_g that will come as a surprise to many?
Um, good point, let me rephrase....
"At least I got to see the CAMERA in person and hold her."
RJBender
09-03-2005, 19:33
Ah, well, that Contax probably was a piece of junk anyway -- if I really, really wanted one, the smart thing to do would be to send Henry a sack of money and let him handle it...
Was the IIIa from the same seller that had the IIa that went for $176? The IIa was listed as a II and looked moldy to me.
R.J.
Yes, I think it was. And yes, now that you mention it, that IIa did look a little weird.
If I snipe and lose, at least I have the satisfaction of knowing that the winner didn't get it as cheaply as he would have if I hadn't bid at all. :D
Sometimes I snipe and I'm surprised at how cheaply I win something. Other times I'm surprised at how high someone else is willing to go.
If I really want something badly enough, I bid more than any sane person would. There are times when someone bids even more so I know they're insane!
The problem with showing your hand too early is that it allows others to convince themselves that they really want it badly enough to keep going higher until they exceed your bid. You must also be alert to shill bidders who try to run up the cost. They can only run you up if you have a bid on the table to be run up or you try to trump their bids. Sniping keeps them from running you up and if the bid gets higher than I'm willing to go then I forget about sniping and move on to something else that I want.
But, we each have our methods, our own reasoning and our own way of bidding. I'm comfortable with how I do things so I'll continue doing it my way. For every "stinker" I've gotten, I've won many more good - and sometimes great - deals. I'm doing something right I suppose. I hope that all of the RFF members have success in their efforts to nab a good deal.
Walker
Considering an eBay auction as a "game" is I think a losing idea, though fostered by eBay through their use of the word "Win" to describe what the eventual buyer has done... which is actually paying more for something than anyone else would pay!
Sniping can be a way to avoid "playing the game". First, a last-second bid does not give other bidders an opportunity to "play" by responding to your bid. Secondly it does not give YOU the opportunity to bid again, enforcing some discipline. Figure how much you'll pay, bid at the last second, and you know that's your one and final bid. If some other bidder's maximum was higher, so be it; your bid what was right for you.
Some recent eBay purchases have shown me that I'm having problems with item condition. Three cameras have had expensive problems... internal problems from impact, from sitting wet and corroding, and the third now is found to have a fastener come loose inside and break a shaft in the film transport. :( The seller of the corroded item was surprised at that discovery, as he'd bought it on eBay himself and only knew the meter wasn't working. So it's still a gamble, maybe a "game" in that respect.
Considering an eBay auction as a "game" is I think a losing idea, though fostered by eBay through their use of the word "Win" to describe what the eventual buyer has done... which is actually paying more for something than anyone else would pay!
<Snip>
Some recent eBay purchases have shown me that I'm having problems with item condition. Three cameras have had expensive problems... internal problems from impact, from sitting wet and corroding, and the third now is found to have a fastener come loose inside and break a shaft in the film transport. :( The seller of the corroded item was surprised at that discovery, as he'd bought it on eBay himself and only knew the meter wasn't working. So it's still a gamble, maybe a "game" in that respect.
Doug, you've made some good points. I only think of my bidding as a "game" in the sense that I'm competing and trying to defeat competitors. My "goal" is to acquire something I believe will be of benefit to me.
I, too, have had limited problems with condition of items. High quality pictures make it easier to identify defects while questioning the seller is necessary sometimes. I'm waiting for an answer to a couple of questions I've sent right now.
Last week I received a Yashica TL Electro-X that was inadequately described. It's dirtier than it should be and the lens has a pretty severe dent in the filter ring. The collar surrounding the lens that has a "window" and provides a reference mark for focusing distance and the f-stop rotates freely as well. The good news is that a new battery brought the meter and shutter to life and both work great. As soon as I replace the foam seals and clean the body's exterior I'll have a nice M42 mount camera. Securing the lens collar won't be difficult and except for screw-in filters, the lens should be fine.
I gave a positive feedback to the seller but anyone who reads it will see that it's less than a glowing endorsement. I did it to protect my own feedback rating.
Walker
RJBender
09-04-2005, 14:05
Did you guys see the Contax II that went for $710?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7542219158
There was $170 worth of bidding during the last minute of the auction.
R.J.
RJBender
09-04-2005, 14:09
If every bidder would just bid their max, then walk away, there'd be no problem. The problem is the people who up their bid when they see someone else has topped it - a bidding war. I also get really stressed watching the last minute of an auction and waiting to drop my bid in late - my heart literally starts pounding like I've run up a set of stairs! These days, if I'm serious about an item, I'll lodge my maximum bid with a sniper service, then ignore it till after the auction has ended. That way I stick to my maximum bid and I don't contribute to a bidding war. And my heart rate stays relatively normal. :)
Hi Chris,
What are some of the sniping services that you recommend?
R.J.
RichardS
09-04-2005, 16:19
Ridiculous price. I bought one about a month ago on eBay. I don't remember the exact price but it was around $300, and it was in very good condition.
Dick
Brian Sweeney
09-04-2005, 18:33
My truly Evil Ebay days are behind me. If I wanted something really bad, I would find out what the "competition" was also bidding on at the time and drive those items up. Then I would go after the item I wanted, figuring I had strained their reserves. During the last two minutes of an auction that I am high bidder on and really do not want sniped, I used to constantly refresh the page on the high-speed cable connection. Firgure the same image could not be downloaded too many times at once. Kind of like on StarGate-1, dialing the gate out so someone else can't dial in.
Brian - hey that's serious stuff :p . Ha!
RJ - I use EZSNIPER (www.exsniper.com) . It seems to bid in about the last 5 or 6 seconds of an auction. I've lodged about a dozen bids this way; won a few, lost a few more, but stuck to my maximum bid. I guess the reliability of these services depends on their servers and infrastructure, and one day I'll miss because a server goes down. And I have once missed out when my bid at the last minute was a few cents higher than the highest bid, but didn't clear the margin to the next highest bid that ebay would accept - that was annoying!
One thing to remember is that the winning price is effectively determined by the nearest loser - the selling price is only a bid margin above the second-highest bidder. A few times I've been the second-highest bidder and thought "Gee if I'd only bid another $5 I would have won", but maybe the winner had actually bid another $50! You never know if you don't put your money on the line.
RJBender
09-04-2005, 21:30
Brian - hey that's serious stuff :p . Ha!
RJ - I use EZSNIPER (www.exsniper.com) . It seems to bid in about the last 5 or 6 seconds of an auction. I've lodged about a dozen bids this way; won a few, lost a few more, but stuck to my maximum bid. I guess the reliability of these services depends on their servers and infrastructure, and one day I'll miss because a server goes down. And I have once missed out when my bid at the last minute was a few cents higher than the highest bid, but didn't clear the margin to the next highest bid that ebay would accept - that was annoying!
One thing to remember is that the winning price is effectively determined by the nearest loser - the selling price is only a bid margin above the second-highest bidder. A few times I've been the second-highest bidder and thought "Gee if I'd only bid another $5 I would have won", but maybe the winner had actually bid another $50! You never know if you don't put your money on the line.
Thanks, Chris! :p
R.J.
RJBender
09-07-2005, 16:03
Considering an eBay auction as a "game" is I think a losing idea, though fostered by eBay through their use of the word "Win" to describe what the eventual buyer has done... which is actually paying more for something than anyone else would pay!
Sniping can be a way to avoid "playing the game". First, a last-second bid does not give other bidders an opportunity to "play" by responding to your bid. Secondly it does not give YOU the opportunity to bid again, enforcing some discipline. Figure how much you'll pay, bid at the last second, and you know that's your one and final bid. If some other bidder's maximum was higher, so be it; your bid what was right for you.
Some recent eBay purchases have shown me that I'm having problems with item condition. Three cameras have had expensive problems... internal problems from impact, from sitting wet and corroding, and the third now is found to have a fastener come loose inside and break a shaft in the film transport. :( The seller of the corroded item was surprised at that discovery, as he'd bought it on eBay himself and only knew the meter wasn't working. So it's still a gamble, maybe a "game" in that respect.
It's turning into a crap shoot, Doug. People get their inventory at yard sales, don't know if it works and try to sell it for big bucks. This seller hit the "lottery":
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7529788575
Do you think this seller knows anything about cameras?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64340&item=7541858327
People, who have a lot of repeat business, know what they sell and sell quality stuff seem to do well. For example, I've known this guy since he worked at St. Louis Photo in the 1980s:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=ckejcameras
Craig currently has 100% feedback from 3322 transactions and 2663 members. 659 of those transactions represent repeat business over the last 8 years. I recently asked him what his secret was. Look at his item descriptions. Every description says, return for refund if not satisfied.
eBay could do better a better job with the statistics to make them more meaningful instead of just showing us a feedback "score".
Just my 2¢ worth.
R.J.
I watched a Contax G1 body in EBay last week whilst in the UK. I waited until the death knell and placed my bid only to be told that bidding was restricted to UK bidders only - I was there but registered in Oz. If I had planned ahead I might have scored it for under 150 pounds. I recently picked up a IIIA with 1.5 Opton Sonnar for $US299 on Ebay including shipping which was excellent - the meter appears to be no more than a stop out over the range and the three B and W films that I have put through it seem PDG.
RJBender
09-10-2005, 13:53
Did you guys see the Contax II that went for $710?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7542219158
There was $170 worth of bidding during the last minute of the auction.
R.J.
Henry Scherer doesn't have anything good to say about Dutch CLAs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7545416107
R.J.
RObert Budding
09-10-2005, 16:01
I really like Henry's CLA's. My IIIa operates perfectly.
RObert
RJBender
09-10-2005, 17:03
I really like Henry's CLA's. My IIIa operates perfectly.
RObert
I heard he's good. I was surprised to see the listing on eBay for his evaluation service. There's only one seller in the Netherlands that I know of who sells CLA'd Contaxes.
R.J.
RObert Budding
09-10-2005, 18:03
I've seen Henry list the same evaluation service before. Don't think he expects anyone to buy it - he just wants to warn folks. I read a post somewhere (here or pnet) about someone who purchased a "CLA'd" Contax from the eBay seller petrakla. The thing contained a Kiev shutter! The pictures I saw posted even showed petrakla's signature within the camera. Here's a link explaining the whole sordid tale.
http://www.photo.net/neighbor/view-one.tcl?neighbor_to_neighbor_id=204552
Robert
Well, that correspondence did get a bit overheated... Unfortunately the listing appears to have been removed from eBay.
RJBender
09-13-2005, 12:20
I've seen Henry list the same evaluation service before. Don't think he expects anyone to buy it - he just wants to warn folks. I read a post somewhere (here or pnet) about someone who purchased a "CLA'd" Contax from the eBay seller petrakla. The thing contained a Kiev shutter! The pictures I saw posted even showed petrakla's signature within the camera. Here's a link explaining the whole sordid tale.
http://www.photo.net/neighbor/view-one.tcl?neighbor_to_neighbor_id=204552
Robert
Hi Robert,
Someone from Japan placed the first bid.
R.J.
RObert Budding
09-13-2005, 13:08
Too bad the bidder didn't do some research on the seller!
Robert
RJBender
09-13-2005, 13:13
Too bad the bidder didn't do some research on the seller!
Robert
Sorry, I meant someone from Japan placed the first bid on Henry's CLA evaluation.
R.J.
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