Fav sub $500 28mm lens?

[rogermota]

Folks, I'm in the market for a 28mm lens and cannot possibly pay more than $500. So lets just exclude all the more recent Leica glass right off the bat.

But besides the money issue, I love the way older (1950s-1960s) lenses draw. I shoot only in black and white and so more contrast is just about the last I look for in a lens. I've heard many good things about the Canon 28/2.8 (1957) but its virtually impossible to find one. :bang:

Any suggestions on your fav (old) 28mm M/LTM lenses for b&w shooting?

[phototone]

Well, I am very taken with the CV Ultron 28mm f/1.9. But it is a modern lens.

[back alley]

the canon 28/3.5 is much easier to locate, often on ebay, with case and finder included.

i think kevincameras.com had a couple last time i looked.

i have one and it definately is lower contrast. i need to use it more to fully evaluate it.

joe

[photodog]

Consider the 28mm f/3.5 Color Skopar. I don't have one but saw at the RFF meet a few weeks ago. RayPA had one, it was quite compact. Cameraquest sells it for $285 in screw mount. Maybe look for an old 28mm Rokkor in M mount, it was made for the CL in the 70s.

[rover]

Well, I am very taken with the CV Ultron 28mm f/1.9. But it is a modern lens.

I recently bought a 28 Ultron and have fallen for it too. It hasn't come off my M6 yet. It is bigger than any other option you will find, but it is a super lens, and fast.

[aizan]

that's pretty much the whole list. ultron, color skopar, m-rokkor, canon 28/3.5...

i have a canon 28/2.8, but it's a keeper! :D

[phototone]

Both of the CV 28mm lenses are top performers. the Ultron is huge, the Color Skopar is tiny. As far as image quality, you probably won't be able to tell them apart. They are both great lenses, but are probably more contrasty than older designs. This does not have to be a bad thing, though. I have both and use both with confidence.

[rogermota]

i have a canon 28/2.8, but it's a keeper! :D

*******! :D

I have just discovered this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-RF-28-2-8_W0QQitemZ7535423229QQcategoryZ30027QQssPageNameZ WD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

anybody know if that would be the m-mount or screw?

Seems a tad pricey tho (about twice as much as I'd expect to pay for the lens...)

[rover]

You are going to pay bust out retail buying from Kevin, but I am sure it is as he describes.

The Canon lenses are all LTM.

[rogermota]

Ok, I have no clue what to go for ;)

There's the canon 28/2.8 I have been looking for a long time but Kevin sells it for way too much. Then there's the canon 28/3.5 that even Kevin sells for substantially less (actually selling it the price the 2.8 should be going for).
Then there's the newer CV color skopar.

If you were to pick one, which one would it be??? Maybe this should be a poll!?!

[einolu]

i always thought that the slower CV lenses are very contrasty and the faster ones arent?

[rover]

Color Skopar, I have only read rave reviews about it.

[phototone]

Just by the virtue of the new CV lenses being multi-coated with modern methods, they would be more contrasty and less flare-prone than older lenses. With the goal of good b/w photography in mind, the "contrast" rendition of a lens has less importance, as one can adjust contrast when one prints, or when one scans. The native "contrast" of a lens should only really be a concern if the final end product is color slides, which are a contrasty medium to begin with, and since the film you shoot is the film your project, then there is no opportunity to adjust anything after the initial exposure in the camera. Of course, if you scan slides, there is some adjustment possible.

The other think one should consider is the rendering of the out-of-focus areas. Now what is that called, bunkum, borkum, bumfuddle, whatever, and with wide-angle lenses, it is less of an issue, as more of an image is "in" focus at a given aperture setting.

[aizan]

the ultron is less contrasty. i'd go for that, plus the speed.

[richard_l]

There's the old 28mm f/5.6 Summaron (available only in screwmount), but prices are insane. The f/1.9 Ultron is sort of the opposite of the Summaron in size, speed, and vintage, but it is a fine lens, so easy to use that it's quite seductive. Performancewise it is hard to fault. It does intrude into the viewfinder a bit. It takes standard 46mm screw-in filters.

[back alley]

try emailing kevincameras and ask if he has a 28/2.8 in user condition for less money.

i have heard that he has some inventory that does not get to the net but is mostly for walk in business. couldn't hurt...

joe

[rogermota]

try emailing kevincameras and ask if he has a 28/2.8 in user condition for less money.

i have heard that he has some inventory that does not get to the net but is mostly for walk in business. couldn't hurt...


that's a good idea actually. you guys have any recommendations on other trustworthy dealers i could fireup an email to re: canon 28/2.8?

[rover]

Ritz

http://www.ritzcam.com/catalog/frameset.php?category_id=1180

[phototone]

The original poster was asking for an "M" mount 28mm lens. Just to clarify, almost all the lenses mentioned above, including in my posts, are actually LTM mount which would need an adaptor for "M" mount, however outside of Leica brand, and one Hexanon and one new Zeiss that are in "M" mount, ALL the older choices would be in LTM mount to which you would need to add an "M" adaptor to. Fully functional on "M" and added value of being useable on all LTM cameras as well.

[rover]

Good point, but it has to be mentioned that perhaps there are no M mount lenses that would be sub $500.

Oh, the Minolta CLE, but that is a bit of a risk because of the faulty coating/element separation issue.

[rogermota]

The original poster was asking for an "M" mount 28mm lens. Just to clarify, almost all the lenses mentioned above, including in my posts, are actually LTM mount which would need an adaptor for "M" mount
I wasn't entirely sure if the Canon RF lenses were LTM or M. but yeah basically the idea was, what lens to use that would fit an M-mount (in which case LTM with adapter is a viable option)

I'm going to be using the lens in an R-D1 (oh the horror, no film!) and after reading up on the performance on the skopar 3.5, it's clearly outdone by the 1.9. However, the thing is HUGE. And it does leave me wondering why Sean Reid in his review of the lenses' performances on the R-D1 (link (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/rd-1-lens.shtml)) prefers the canon. He dealt with both lenses and sure, the 1.9 is a very fine modern lens, but there's still something there that makes him prefer the canon.

[back alley]

he likes the lower contrast of the older lenses.

[rover]

he likes the lower contrast of the older lenses.


Bingo, the dynamic range of the current digital sensors is very narrow causing high contrast lenses to either blow out the highlights or block up the shadows as they resolve beyond the sensor's capabilities.

One of the last few feathers in film's cap.

[Doug]

Apparently the 28 Ultron bests the Skopar on the R-D1, which is the relevant platform under discussion. (And I think Sean found the Ultron preferable even over the 28 Summicron.) But I'll defend the Skopar's honor as an excellent and gem-like lens with film. :D Sample below...

[Graybeard]

Both of the CV 28 lenses are fine performers, optically and both are available, new, for much less than $500. If you do your own B&W darkoom work, contrast or lack thereof should'nt be much of an issue; it isn't for me.

When the CV 28mm/f3.5 was first introduced there was quite a bit of favorable comment about the mechanical build quality, that CV had improved the mechanicals over the 28mm/1.9.

I can't say that I've had a problem with either lens. I shoot quite a bit of available light and, at times, really need a fast WA. The CV 1.9 is just the thing to have then. Most recently, I used the lens to photograph the guests at a wedding rehearsal dinner in a dimly lit restaurant and the CV 28/1.9 performed quite well indeed (Tri-x pushed to ASA800 in Xtol).

If you don't need the speed, get the CV f3.5, it is tiny and readily carried. If speed is important, the faster CV lens will probably serve well.

[rogermota]

Thank you for all the responses guys! I specifically posted in the Leica M forum because I thought the fact that I would use the lens on a digital was irrelevant. But as it is becoming more and more clear, the digital sensor plays a major role in the final image (as does film and slide). I've actually stumbled upon a great (somewhat old) thread here on RFF (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2690&page=1&pp=20&highlight=mount+LTM) (post #6) regarding lens contrast and the recording medium (b&w film, colour film, slide, digital).

The summary, as Rover has pointed out, is that digital sensors have about the same limited dynamic range as slides. But where slides are concerned, you typically shoot colour and what you shoot is what you get -- so modern lenses are the optimal choice. However, on the digital sensor, because you can do post processing in photoshop, the best b&w lenses are the ones with lowest contrast, which are able to preserve the greatest dynamic range for use in photoshop.

So for digital, the flatter the image, the more you have to play with. Its the same with film, but because there's a greater dynamic range, you can go with more contrasty lenses and still have plenty of room.

I'm no technical guy, but interesting stuff eh?

[SolaresLarrave]

Roger,

There's another choice... an old breed of (slowish) glass, manufactured by Kobalux and marketed under the brands Bower and Adorama. These are M-mount lenses, 28/f3.5, relatively small but well recommended by those who have used them. I was offered one a long time ago, but I passed it because I was in the lookout for a 35mm. They have been discontinued for a while, but still pop up on eBay from time to time. Price-wise: moderate, from US $200 to $400.

Otherwise, you've gotten already excellent advice here! :)

[rogermota]

Kobalux and marketed under the brands Bower and Adorama. (...) Price-wise: moderate, from US $200 to $400.


Yeah I've heard of the Kobalux lenses, cameraquest has some good things to say about it. The interesting thing tho is that I feel like I "know" the canon 28/2.8 but the canon 3.5 & kobalux 3.5 are a bit unknown.

Sure a faster 2.8 is appealing but 3.5 isn't the end of the world. What I'm more interested in is the resolution of the lens (and sharpness on the edges to some extent). I'd go for either of the 3.5s if I knew they were pretty much identical to the 2.5 except being slower.

It'd be interesting to hear from someone who's used the 2.8 and either of the 3.5s in b&w for comparison.

Funny how it feels like buying a flat ;)

[phototone]

My experience with lenses on digital SLR's has proven to me that faster lenses, that is lenses with wider maximum apertures, such as f/1.9, or so give more even results with digital imagers, because of a wider exit pupil which places the light rays more parallel to the imager. It is the light rays hitting the sensor at a severe angle that causes the vignetting and chromatic aberration artifacts towards the edge of the image. I would assume that this would also hold true for a digital RFDR camera. Exterpolating on this theory, it would seem that the VC 28mm f/1.9 would be the optimum 28mm for the RD-1, if one had a budget of $500 or less. Cosidering that the Summicron and Summilux from Leitz are vastly more expensive.

[Ben Z]

I recently bought a Voitlander 28/1.9 Ultron for $265, it was rated in Bargain condition which turned out to be because the hood was missing and some bozo had blacked out the Voitlander etc engravings on the front rim. The OEM hood, an (to me) gross, ugly-looking crinkled finish thing with a silver thumbscrew to hold it in place, would've cost $50 to replace. For $20 I got a vented screw-in shade for the Hexar RF lens, still in its velour pouch. I already had a 28/90 M adaptor so I was all set. I am happy with the performance and ergonomics of the lens and my shade. I had been looking for an Elmarit for a while and found nothing but really beaten ones for nothing less than $700, and by beaten I don't mean just paint loss which I could care less about, but evidence of amateur tampering, and scratches on the front element (you know, the kind that Leica coatings are too tough to get).

[rpsawin]

Don't ovgerlook the Konica M mount 28/2.8. It is a wonderful lens and on par with the pre-asph leicas. They do show up on e-bay from time to time and will probably be ~$500 or more.

Bob