Might switch from m4/3 to NEX. Tell me yea or nay. [Archive]

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 03:59

My present small-format and legacy-lens camera system is micro 4/3, specifically the Olympus E-P2, both pancakes, and an adapted Pen 60/1.5 (also, occasionally, M lenses). What I like about the Oly is its styling and in-body stabilization. What I don't like is the smaller sensor, poor low light performance, vexing menu system, lack of one-click magnification, and lack of built-in EVF. My assumption has been that Oly would be putting out a "pro" body sometime soon, something like, say, the GH2, except with look and feel that appeals more to me, and this would make the format satisfy me.

But Oly has been glacial in the pace of their innovation, and Sony suddenly seems appealing. The NEX-5 / 16mm package is pretty affordable now, and new bodies and lenses seem to be on the horizon. Plus, Sony makes the best sensors in the world, and the NEX is APS-C, making it more appealing as a backup body for M and other legacy lenses. I'm wondering if this system will appeal to me more in the long run than m4/3.

Has anyone made this switch? Has the menu system of the NEX-5 been improved from the original version? Can you magnify the display with one click? Is the legacy lens experience decent? Is the 16mm pancake any good? To be honest, the 20mm Panasonic pancake is the main thing keeping me with m4/3 right now...do any of the Sony lenses match it?

FPjohn

03-09-2011, 04:08

Hello:

I have not had a 4/3 camera but the nex is remarkable as a platform for legacy lenses. Focus and image quality is excellent. It is, nowever, more akin to TLR and direct view cameras than rangefinder cameras in gestalt and style of use.

yours
FPJ

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 04:20

I am in no way attached to rangefinder-style focusing. An LCD can be a little hard to work with on a sunny day, but this is a minor issue for me.

How does the NEX do with, say, a 28mm or 35mm M lens? How are the corners?

FPjohn

03-09-2011, 04:30

35mm appears to be the limit before cornerfix is needed with non retrofocus lenses. Mileage appears to vary.

yours
FPJ

dexdog

03-09-2011, 04:31

I use the NES 5 with both ancient and modern 35mm lenses (Nikkor 3.5cm/1.8, Canon 35/2 and CV Nokoton 35/1.4) and find corner performance to be excellent, mininal distortion and no to very little vignetting (i am really impressed by the NEX sensor). I have not used any 28mm lenses on the NEX.

Plus, the APS-C sensor facilitates large aperture OOF more than a smaller sensor, if you are into that kinda thing.

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 04:32

I do rather like that kinda thing!

kbg32

03-09-2011, 04:40

I believe switching might not be worth it. The sensor size is negligibly larger. Not much to make a great difference. But then again, I think you are set on doing so!

:)

Phantomas

03-09-2011, 04:49

I've tried GH1 and NEX-5, and while GH1 is a sturdy, nice feeling camera, NEX wins hands down for me.
Larger sensor = more versatility with legacy lenses (50mm would be unusable for me on 4/3)
Larger sensor = better ISO qulity (1600 was just fine on NEX, better than 4/3)
Larger sensor = shallow DOF, oh yeah.
Ergonomics = I must say when i first saw the pictures of NEX I had to laugh at seemingly unproportional design. But when I held it for the first time it blew me away - really comfortable to hold.
New ways of shooting = you know what, I don't even want a viewfinder on NEX. That's because after one evening with it I realised how differently I shoot, from different angles and possitions, thanks to articulated LCD.

I'd definitelly go for NEX (I don't own it yet) but I'm waiting a little longer to see what they'll do next 9after their recent announcement that they will take NEX positioning in several different directions and that it will happen "sooner than we think".

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 04:57

I believe switching might not be worth it. The sensor size is negligibly larger. Not much to make a great difference. But then again, I think you are set on doing so!

:)

I'm definitely not! I've been mulling it over for months--actually, ever since I got the new Pentax DSLR, with its amazing high-ISO performance, and started getting really frustrated with my casual indoor photography on m4/3--which is the main thing I use it for. It's true that I am leaning towards at least trying out the NEX, though.

The sensor is about 150% the size of m4/3--hardly full frame, but not negligible, I don't think.

kshapero

03-09-2011, 05:05

As an owner of a NEX:
1. Sensor is awesome
2. Low light is an absolute piece of cake
3. The 16mm is ok at best. Soft and autofocus loses its way about 1 out of 8 shots.
4. M Mount and LTM mount lenses absolutely rock. The one button push is simple and dead accurate.
5. Firmware 1.3 makes menu go from a D- to a B+. And that's a lot, but still no substitute for external dials and buttons.
6. I am in very sunny south Florida and the LCD can be a bit of a challenge but it is quite doable.
7. Oh yeah, the tilt screen allows you to really be discreet in street shots.
8. Shutter noise is crappy loud, practice coughing.

Have fun.

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 05:32

Perhaps I should retain the EP2 and 20mm, unload the 14mm, and pick up the NEX and 16mm.

nigelb

03-09-2011, 05:56

I believe switching might not be worth it. The sensor size is negligibly larger. Not much to make a great difference.

As an ex EP1 user I don't go along with this. I ditched the EP1 many months ago for use with legacy lenses as for me it didn't work out, I went without until I decided which way to go. The increased sensor size of the Nex makes a difference in several ways.

The 2x crop of the EP1 was simply a step too far, my CV35mm became a portrait lens and my CV50mm became a telephoto. Wide angle became a no-no my 15mm became 30 and results with it weren't up to scratch. With the Nex crop factor of 1.5 wide angle is still possible for me, the CV35 makes a good standard, the 50mm becomes a lovely portrait lens, the 25 makes a great streetshooter and the 15 stays a fairly wide angle.

The increased sensor size makes a noticeable improvement to dynamic range and ISO noise. I could not believe how good the Nex is at 1600 or 3200 compared with the EP1

A previous poster in this thread said the Nex is great with legacy lenses of over 35mm and is right - no problems with these. The CV25 gives some corner and edge vignetting and the CV15 is a little worse and with some colour bands top and sides. Cornerfix easily corrects this in the 15mm, but I seldom correct my pictures taken with the 25 as I often quite like a little vignetting.

I am really glad I gave the Nex a try after my disappointment with the EP1 - It certainly made a difference to me.

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 06:03

Just read some reviews of the 16mm, though--sounds pretty poor. Perhaps I ought to try and find a body and some adapters instead.

kshapero

03-09-2011, 06:05

I have all but ditched the Sony Nex 16mm for a CV 21mm which gives much better results. Easy to hyper focus.

Disaster_Area

03-09-2011, 06:09

After trying both, the Nex won hands down for me, for all the reasons listed above. Especially when you concider that the rumor mill says an EVF is coming out at the same time as the next gen Nex body. It makes sense, the port is already there the only reason it didn't come out at time of release is that the Nex was pushed out ahead of schedule and the EVF wasn't ready yet according to some very reliable, but off the record comments by Sony employees.

FPjohn

03-09-2011, 06:36

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-x1-forum/162999-ultimate-pocket-camera-x1-vs-nex-5.html

yours

FPJ

Benjamin Marks

03-09-2011, 06:37

Mablesound: like you I have an EP-2; I added a NEX-5 recently with the 16mm lens. I tested the lens briefly, but have left it in the box. I use the NEX exclusively with adapters and legacy glass (Leica M, R, Konica AR, Pentax SM, etc.). I would say that there is a difference in degree as to image quality as to the two cameras, but not like a jump to FF. I use the EP-2 with the EVF. I keep the screen on the "green square" setting, which allows EP-2 one-touch 7x magnification with the "OK" button. I found focusing on the NEX itself _very_ frustrating to my middle-aged eyes, and wound up attaching a Hoodman loupe semi-permanently with a giant red rubber band. It significantly improves NEX-5 focusing (which also has a one-touch mag feature) by turning the thing into more of an SLR. Since I don't plan on using any of the Sony lenses with the NEX, I ONLY care about focus ability with legacy glass. On the other hand, it does increase the form factor substantially and negates much of the NEX's size advantage over other kinds of cameras. If low-light is your thing, the switch might be worth it for you. If you want to try the camera out, send me a PM and I'd be happy to loan you the thing and an M-adapter for a week or so. You could make up your own mind risk free.

Ben Marks

Edit: the NEX and Oly essentially vie for 2nd camera in the bag next to a Leica. But the ability to use Leica M glass on them means that they work well for this. And despite the fact that I said once I had no interest in video . . . yeah, video happens. - Ben

ampguy

03-09-2011, 06:42

I've had good luck with wides on the NEX 5, with the CV 15, 21, Canon 28/2.8, and of course the kit 16, and longer MF lens.

I have seen color shifts with the CV 15 but very rarely, but not with my 21 and my nex (probably only ~200-300 shots so far with the CV 15 and 21s). However I have seen color (magenta) issues with other folks with their nex and their CV 21, so I am not sure if it is an exposure/scene/pp situation, or individual lens situation.

Having 1 or even 2 of the kit lens are nice, for the times when you want the camera to be P&S fast, or if they are still having those promos with bundled lenses, it would be pretty easy to sell off the unused kit lens.

The lack of an EVF is a big deal for some folks, so I would always recommend you try it out in a store first. Best Buy, Target and Costco all have them, I think. I'd go with the NEX 5, seems built better, and also fits the hand better, the battery orientation is like a grip, where it is rotated 90 deg. flat in the nex 3.

For me, the real value of the Nex, and this could probably apply to m43 as well, is the ability to precisely focus with 1 touch 7x and 2 touch 14x mag with legacy lens, and the ability to use great slr and M glass with a wide variety of adapters.

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 06:43

Hey, Ben, thanks for the offer! I believe I read about your efforts with the NEX in another thread. I'll pass on the loan for now but you are a trusting soul, I appreciate it.

The thing that bugs me about the Oly "green square" mode is that you no longer have one-touch access to ISO and WB...those buttons now move the square around! The Pana implementation is superior, I think.

FPJohn, thanks for that link, very informative!

mabelsound

03-09-2011, 06:44

try it out in a store first. Best Buy, Target and Costco all have them, I think.

Hadn't even considered the possibility! Will check it out.

Paddy C

03-09-2011, 06:56

Perhaps I should retain the EP2 and 20mm, unload the 14mm, and pick up the NEX and 16mm.

I've been keeping an eye on this category intently for about a year now. The "cons" of each system have been enough to keep me shooting small format film. This is mostly because I'm in no rush and want to be sure about the move (ie 35mm film to digital).

My opinion is that the Nex is currently the better system. But I'm waiting to find out if there is truth in the "pro" Nex body with built in EVF rumour. I'm also curious to see the lens line-up expand and get an idea of whether better native lenses can be made for the E-mount. Having to use adapted lenses (especially without an EVF) all the time to get results is not why I want one of these systems. And right now the two Nex lenses kinda suck.

photo_fred

03-09-2011, 07:01

If you guys don't like your 16 mm lenses, maybe one of you wouldn't mind selling the lens to me at a damn good price,seeing they're just going to waste with you guys.

Paddy C

03-09-2011, 07:20

Just a note...

Sony Alpha rumours seems to be certain there will be a new Nex model announced in early April and that it will be available in May.

raid

03-09-2011, 07:37

I am more interested in getting an Olympus EP2 with EVF.

Frank Version Two

03-09-2011, 07:45

I only have a Pany G1/20mm but having looked at the NEX I figure it isn't there yet. If you can just wait a little while there will be some better options... the NEX files look great but the UI and bodies are for crap... I'd want a decent AF prime answer too.

Using legacy lenses is great but I want a fast prime to commit.

Right now the X100 is looking really good.

douglasf13

03-09-2011, 08:10

Just read some reviews of the 16mm, though--sounds pretty poor. Perhaps I ought to try and find a body and some adapters instead.

Go look at the dpreview of the 16mm lens. That is about exactly like mine performs. Deadly sharp in the center, but awful in the corners at f2.8. From F5.6 on, good in the corners, except for the very most extreme couple of millimeters. I often give it a slight crop, making it closer to a 17-18mm lens, and that takes care of any corner issues when necessary.

Incredibly, the wide angle converter for the 16mm doesn't seem to reduce quality at all, so you could use that and crop slightly, as well, and get around a 20mm equivalent.

Oddly enough, the new Panasonic 14mm is actually closer to 13mm, but software crops it in camera, due to the intense barrel distortion correction.

segedi

03-09-2011, 08:14

A new NEX in early April, I'm hoping this is true! And they sell body only, don't need any more lenses... plan to get an M adapter.

shadowfox

03-09-2011, 11:11

The EP-2 is a perfect camera for me.
I've taken it traveling abroad and it handles abuse (bumps, knocks, extreme humidity, temperature, and long use) with ease.

Frankly I have not yet find a body that is as well made (and one of the coolest looking, as a bonus) for what I paid and for that size. My dream is to get the 9-18mm lens and together with the Panny 20/1.7 and my Zuiko lenses, I have all I want in small package digital camera.

And don't forget that Olympus is going to release a couple of prime lenses, if the rumor mills are to be considered.

As for image quality, to be honest, I'm at the position where they are all digital images. You can do whatever you want with those that suit your style and your preference.

Good photographs are not always the cleanest, and super-high-iso performance is but a mere factor in a set of many others *in real life, not on paper*. Can those who praise the NEX for its high-iso performance really compare it with that of a D700 or D3? I don't think so. So who really cares? it's all subjective.

If I may repeat a sane advice given to me once: It's better to do a photo project than chasing the pot of gear at the end of the rainbow.

douglasf13

03-09-2011, 12:18

It isn't so much the ISO performance of the NEX that sets it apart, but, rather, the dynamic range, and it does certainly compete with the D700/D3 in this regard at lower ISOs. You're gaining a solid 1.5-2 stops of DR with the D700/NEX over m4/3 at lower ISOs.

Regardless, as was mentioned earlier, it is the 1.5x vs. 2.0x crop factor that really made the difference for me in choosing NEX for legacy rangefinder lenses, and the NEX-5 build is very solid.

Nokton48

03-09-2011, 14:29

Just read some reviews of the 16mm, though--sounds pretty poor. Perhaps I ought to try and find a body and some adapters instead.

That's what I have done (got a Nex-3 body-only) and a bunch of adapters.

It's absolutely great. I still shoot with my three Leica M bodies, but now I also alternate those lenses on the Nex. The SLR primes are great, too. I favor the old Minolta MC Rokkors.

Bingley

03-09-2011, 21:06

I'm enjoying my Oly E-PL1 w/ the Pany 20/1.7 lens and legacy glass too. Am using the EVF which is great. I looked at the NEX, but decided it wasn't for me. The Oly works brilliantly as a second body to a Leica M. I use the Oly for indoors/low light/color, and happily shoot my Leica film cams w/ slower lenses and b&w. The fact that a 50 becomes a 100 on an m4/3d body is not a problem; it means my 50 lenses can do double duty, and I don't have to carry a separate 100 lens. I am thinking seriously about the Pany 14mm lens, since I like the 28mm focal length indoors.

mabelsound

03-10-2011, 04:30

I never seem to use the EVF for the E-P2, even though it works beautifully. It turns the camera into a giant cube, basically, especially if I'm using a longish lens...it takes up FAR more space in a bag than a DSLR. With the pancakes, the EVF is fine, maintaining the thin profile, but I don't really need it for autofocus lenses.

I really want a built-in EVF, and I'm really surprised Oly hasn't ponied one up yet.

shadowfox

03-10-2011, 09:11

Benjamin Marks

03-10-2011, 09:24

So NEX has built in EVF?
No. Just a rear screen. You can flip the screen up and look down into it, like a latter-day TLR, or you can chimp with the NEX a comfortable viewing distance from your face, or you can install an aftermarket loupe and use it like a DSLR. All of the above are probably more important if you are not using the NEX lenses. I use so-called legacy glass with adapters so manual focus aids are important.

Ben

Gary Sandhu

03-10-2011, 09:41

My ep-1 is always getting bumped and changed to the wrong settings. I think a touch screen that can be locked out might be better. Is the NEX screen "lockable"?

douglasf13

03-10-2011, 09:47

My ep-1 is always getting bumped and changed to the wrong settings. I think a touch screen that can be locked out might be better. Is the NEX screen "lockable"?

The NEX doesn't have a touchscreen. It has three softbuttons which correspond to info on the screen, and two of them are user programmable.

MIkhail

03-10-2011, 09:56

[FONT=Verdana]New ways of shooting = you know what, I don't even want a viewfinder on NEX. That's because after one evening with it I realised how differently I shoot, from different angles and possitions, thanks to articulated LCD.

I am just curious: wouldn't it be the same thing as, when shooting portrait of a person using TLR, you always are below his eye level (unless he is sitting)?
How can you overcome this issue?