View Full Version : Please help me in these questions
cralx2000
08-23-2005, 21:04
1. Can I leave the chemicals in the trays overnight?
2. How is the process of fixation in two stages?
3. What is the purpose of using hot developing with a brush on specific areas?
4. How do I choose the correct contrast? What should I look for to make this decision?
5. Can I use left over paper cut out from another project that hasn’t been used?
6. Do I always need the test strip?
7. What is Dodge and Burn?
8. Do I need to clean the negatives every time I do an enlarge?
9. What do I do to prevent the fiber paper from rolling after I reveal it?
10. What is the expiration of the chemicals?
11. How do I test for light leak of the lab by light? Is it right that I have to test it with a piece of paper on the table?
12. Can I use a red safety light with contrast paper?
13. How can I tell if the negative density is good?
14. Is it better to stick with the same develop until I learned to do it right or is it ok to change it with every job?
15. Can I use the same fixer for film and paper?
16. Do I need a Hypo after using a fixer?
17. How long do I wash the papers? Can I use running water or top water in a tray?
18. What is the Ilfochrome process ( positive papers for enlargement in slides ) Is it still used taday? Is it worth it or is it better to scan and print in an inkjet? How do you do the contrast masks?
Thanks All
Gabriel M.A.
08-23-2005, 22:44
Hmm, have some sort of test coming up? Rather odd to see a long, itemized list of questions.
May I suggest: http://photography.about.com/
Stephanie Brim
08-24-2005, 00:40
I was going to attempt this, but then I realized it's mostly printing questions and not actual development questions.
It would be nice of someone to actually answer these, though, so that if someone comes looking for the information at another time all we have to do is point to this thread. :)
oh my, you need to get a book!
Roger Hicks
08-24-2005, 00:59
You are, I think, presuming on others' kindness a bit to ask 18 questions which could easily take an hour or more to answer, so I'd second the suggestion to buy a book. Preferably one of mine, of course... (try Darkroom Basics -- it's on www.rogerandfrances.com)
But maybe if I answer Question 1, then someone else can answer Question 2, etc.
Yes, you can leave chemicals in the trays overnight if you put cling-film over them -- in contact with the chemicals, no significant air-space.
Cheers,
Roger
Dear Mr Fedderman,
You sure ask a lotta questions for someone from New Jersey.
Ah, it's quicker just to answer these than to shame him into reading up for himself. Bear in mind, though, that just to keep it interesting, I have deliberately inserted AT LEAST one wrong answer!
1. Can I leave the chemicals in the trays overnight?
Developer loses activity when it absorbs oxygen, so it probably will go bad. Stop bath and fix should be OK, except that they'll stink up your house. To extend the life of solutions in trays, float a sheet of plastic film wrap on top.
2. How is the process of fixation in two stages?
It's a way of making sure fixation is more thorough. You divide the fixer into two trays; the print spends half the total fixing time in each tray. The idea is that the first bath (which will wear out first) does most of the work, then the second bath finishes the job.
3. What is the purpose of using hot developing with a brush on specific areas?
Lets you darken these areas selectively.
4. How do I choose the correct contrast? What should I look for to make this decision?
Lightest tones should show detail; darkest tones should look black; midtones should look normal. If white or black shows no detail, your contrast is too high; if whites are OK but blacks look grayish, your contrast is too low.
5. Can I use left over paper cut out from another project that hasn’t been used?
Sure.
6. Do I always need the test strip?
No, but until you've become a very experienced printer, a test strip will save you time and materials.
7. What is Dodge and Burn?
Dodge is a brand of car. Burn is what Iraqi insurgents do.
8. Do I need to clean the negatives every time I do an enlarge?
You should at least blow off the dust. Otherwise, if it looks clean, leave it alone. You might scratch it.
9. What do I do to prevent the fiber paper from rolling after I reveal it?
It'll always curl. Flatten it in a dry-mount press.
10. What is the expiration of the chemicals?
It varies, depending on the chemical and how you store it. Developer expires soonest, fixer next, stop bath lasts the longest.
11. How do I test for light leak of the lab by light? Is it right that I have to test it with a piece of paper on the table?
Yes, that's the only sure way.
12. Can I use a red safety light with contrast paper?
Yes, although it's harder to judge tones under red light than under an amber light.
13. How can I tell if the negative density is good?
Put the negative over a sheet of regular-size print (e.g. a book) in good room light. You should be able to just barely read the type through the densest areas.
14. Is it better to stick with the same develop until I learned to do it right or is it ok to change it with every job?
You'll learn more if you stick with one type until you learn it thoroughly. Same for films.
15. Can I use the same fixer for film and paper?
Yes, but film exhausts it faster, so it won't last as long.
16. Do I need a Hypo after using a fixer?
"Hypo" is just an old-fashioned word for fixer.
17. How long do I wash the papers? Can I use running water or top water in a tray?
The instruction sheet that comes with the paper will tell you how long it needs to be washed. Resin-coated papers take the least time, double-weight fiber-based papers take the most. If you wash in a tray, it's best to use a 'tray siphon', because fixer is heavy and sinks to the bottom of the tray; the siphon gets it out.
18. What is the Ilfochrome process ( positive papers for enlargement in slides ) Is it still used taday? Is it worth it or is it better to scan and print in an inkjet? How do you do the contrast masks?
Some people use it, but scanning is easier and generally gives better results for most people. Making contrast masks is a very advanced topic, and is one reason more people don't do Ilfochrome. I would suggest avoiding it at least until you are a very experienced b&w printer.
Are you sure about all those answers jlw? :)
oftheherd
08-24-2005, 06:30
Gotta take isssue with jlw's answer to No 15. All the reading I have done, and the one time I was tricked into using fixer for film that had been used for paper, I would say never use fixer for one that has been used for the other. From reading years ago, the advice was always that in a emergency, you could use fixer on paper that had been used on film, but never vice-versa. That was in fact what happened to me in an Army craft shop one time. The Korean instructor must have been having a bad day. I immediately realized the fixer was used when some of it got on my hands. He never lived that down the whole time I was there. I made him mix some more fixer and then washed and used that to clear the negatives. Wasn't the best for the negatives, but was the best I could do. I don't know if the paper does something to the fixer, leaving in chemicals that wouldn't be there from film, or if it just exhausts it faster.
Roger Hicks, or any chemists, can you answer that?
jlw's answer to your question #16 is correct, and since hypo isn't used often these days, that often confuses people. However, from the wording of your question, I wonder if you meant did you need to use hypo-eliminator after using fixer (hypo). If so, the answer would be it is convenient, as it reduces the amount of washing time needed, and no matter, helps insure all the hypo gets out, thereby giving the print a longer life. Btw, it is only used for paper, as fixer washes out of film much easier.
If you have further questions, doen't hesitate to ask, but please only ask one or two at a time. How many do you need answered at a time anyway, or can you absorb at one time? Do try to get books and magazines on photography. They will answer most of your questions. Roger Hicks does have some good books that are worth your time to read and keep on your shelf. And how cool to be able to brag that if you didn't understand something, you were able to ask the author? (just try not to bug him too much if re-reading something will give you an understanding, or if a general question on the board will get you more insight and experiences in your answer).
Wayne R. Scott
08-24-2005, 06:51
JLW,
You sir, are a saint. I looked at this thread several times last night and just couldn't bring myself to answer all of the questions.
It kinda reminded me of "instant gratification" required by the new generation. "I need this done now Dad! What button do I push?"
Wayne
breakaway
08-24-2005, 07:30
Finding the wrong answer's tough work...
cralx2000
08-24-2005, 08:02
Thanks all I love you all.
About using the same fixer:
-- With rapid fixers, you need different dilutions for film and paper, so it's best not to mix.
-- With regular (sodium thiosulfate) fixers, you can use the same dilution. But film requires more fixer capacity than paper. So if you have some fixer that's already been partially exhausted fixing paper and then use it for film, it may not have enough capacity to fix it fully.
With film, if ever you pull it out and see it has a milky appearance from unfixed emulsion, you can save the situation by refixing it quickly in fresh fixer.
titrisol
08-24-2005, 08:40
6. Do I always need the test strip?
No, once you master the craft or when you are doing small prints.
7. What is Dodge and Burn?
Dodge means exposing areas of the paper less (dodging light) to make them lighter
Burn means the opposite
15. Can I use the same fixer for film and paper?
Yes, use the same concentrate but have 2 separate working solutions.
16. Do I need a Hypo after using a fixer?
I think you are refering to Hypo-Clearing or wash aid
HCA is great for fiber papers, since it helps cutting wash time. No use for RC papers.
Hypo Clearing is just a sulfite solution.
17. How long do I wash the papers? Can I use running water or top water in a tray?
RC papers need short wash times 2-5 min
FB papers need longer times (1 hour or so) unless you use HCA and then you can shorten this times.
18. What is the Ilfochrome process ( positive papers for enlargement in slides ) Is it still used taday? Is it worth it or is it better to scan and print in an inkjet?
You described it perfectly. I haven;t used it in years but it was the only way to do it before digital.
19. How do you do the contrast masks?
Look in Lynn Radeka's website
Are you already developing? The questions are mostly printing, but a few of them make me wonder if you've developed anything yet. Some of them are rather esoteric for someone getting ready to dunk his first roll of film.
Maybe he's just trying to get an explanation of some terms he has seen, so he can decide whether or not printing is something he is prepared to tackle. In that case, asking all the questions up front is perfectly legitimate and deserves an answer.
Printing is not as complicated as some websites and books make it sound. There's a lot of craft that goes into getting good results easily, and this can be learned only by practice. But as long as you're willing to experiment and make mistakes, you can get good results even as a beginner.
I've told this story before, but once when I was attending a photo workshop, the instructor praised the quality of my prints and asked if I had any secrets. I said I have a special piece of equipment in my darkroom... she asked what it was, and I said, "A really big wastebasket." Basically, that's the secret to getting good prints -- the willingness to throw out what you just did and try again.
however you wish to describe it, you can't say it's not a dark art.
I'll gladly sell you a book that willanswer all your questions.
Stephanie Brim
08-24-2005, 13:09
I have this philosophy for when I start printing: paper isn't that expensive so don't sweat a bad print. Learning things takes time and patience on the part of everyone involved in the process.
Also, I think that this thread may be a good one to sticky for those who are just starting out printing. With all the questions answered, we can just point them to the thread if they have a question that's already answered and they can post new ones here that aren't answered. Keeping it all in one thread may help everyone...not having to look for a bagillion different threads on the subject is good. ;)
cralx2000
08-24-2005, 15:59
Poptart I'd like to have this book, how much?
It depends on where you live; are you in the US?
Hi Cralx,
Let me put some issues you asked about and some you didn't. I assume you are starting to print, and perhaps to process as well.
First, relax and take it easy, the simple way if you indeed are just starting. Don't jump right away to fibre paper nor to highly specific techniques before you master the basics. The day you'll really master the basics, then fibre paper and selective development will be learnt very easy and very fast.
What are the basics ? The mother of good printing is to have first of all a well processed negative, which before entering the developing tank was first of all reasonable exposed when shot with the camera. This paragraph is crucial.
When you reach this correlation, printing will become extremely easy. If you don't you will be exhausting your resources of time and materials.
The good news is that reasonable exposed film and accurate film processing are really tested when making the print. Well exposed film and welll processed film translate afterwards, in 90 percent of the cases, into easily printable images. If you feel that in most of the printing sessions you are fighting hard to obtain an acceptable print - most of the chances are that your problem is at the camera stage or the film processing stage, or both.
Therefore my biggest recommendation is that for the next two years you stick to a single brand film, film developer, paper and paper developer.
As for further gidance there are thousand of books that doesn't help at all and lead you to ask your twenty questions here. There are a dozen books that are worth, and there is one raising above all of them, specially written to help you and not to promote the writer at the expense of the reader: THE CRAFT OF PHOTOGRAPHY, by David Vestal. This was, in my case, the starting point. Go as far as you need to have this book.
Good luck and my kind appreciation to your enterprise at these times.
Ruben
cralx2000
08-24-2005, 18:05
Poptart, I'm in Texas.
cralx2000
08-24-2005, 18:13
ruben, Thank You so much.
" first of all reasonable exposed when shot with the camera. This paragraph is crucial. "
I know what you mean by experience. Dodge and Burn is not fanny for beginner.
Again thanks
There are a dozen books that are worth, and there is one raising above all of them, specially written to help you and not to promote the writer at the expense of the reader: THE CRAFT OF PHOTOGRAPHY, by David Vestal. This was, in my case, the starting point. Go as far as you need to have this book.
That'sgood advice: Vestal's books are very good and nearly complete, although not as all-inclusive or technical as they could be.
TPPhotog
08-25-2005, 02:28
It sounds to me that not only is a book required but are there any basic photography courses run that include the darkroom in your area? My advice is start as simply as possible and get more technical as you gain more experience.
Start with one developer and one fixer, some 5x7 RC paper, 3 trays and lots of practice.
Stephanie Brim
08-25-2005, 02:37
I'd probably do four trays...develop, stop, fix, wash. Then again, that's just me. We all know that I'm still trying to sort out *where* to do my printing, let alone how.
TPPhotog
08-25-2005, 02:39
Good point Stephanie :) I use the sink for the final running water wash before I throw the prints on the wall tiles to dry ;)
I need darkroom space too. I have massive cool equipment that I can't use. Lately I've been doing 19th century sun prints but I still want the whole darkroom trip to fill the blanks.
Roger Hicks
08-25-2005, 02:49
The main reason for not using the same fixer for paper and film is not concentration, but silver build-up. Film can tolerate a MUCH higher silver concentration than paper, at least FB paper -- I've never thought about this question in relation to RC. This is why, if you use film-strength fixer for paper (as I and many others do) fixing is much faster but the fixer capacity (area/litre) remains the same.
I disagree STRONGLY with Ruben's 'biggest recommendation', though. At first, try as many films and devs as you can. Some have a 'magic', others don't, and what is really strange is that what works for one photographer won't for another: pure alchemy.
If you don't want to spend a fortune on devs, buy just one and try a wide range of films in it. There are however major differences between devs. This is why there is no longer a standard ISO developer: manufacturers can determine ISO with any developer, as long as they say what it is.
Some devs give a true ISO speed increase (more speed with no extra contrast): Ilford's Microphen and DDX and Paterson's FX50 are good examples, and give ISO 650 or even a fraction better with HP5 (nominal IS0 400). The penalty is bigger grain.
Others give finer grain but less speed and lower sharpness (the latter is counter-intuitive, but true), or higher sharpness but slightly coarser grain, etc. Some sell on tonality alone: many (though not I) love the tonality of Rodinal but it gives low speed and big grain with many, perhaps most, films. This is why there's a whole module on developer choice in the Photo School www.rogerandfrances.com
Even 'bulletproof' combinations like Ilford HP5 Plus in Perceptol (true ISO about 250) won't work for everyone and if you choose the wrong film/dev combination you can waste all of the two years Ruben advocates merely trying to make the chosen combination work satisfactority.
As soon as you find a combination that gives you the 'magic', yes, I'll second Ruben. But until then I think it's dangerous advice.
Cheers,
Roger
Re #15, you may use the same fixer for both paper and film as long as it does not have an added hardener. Kodak alows you to make a choice to add the hardener for film (though not required). If you use something like some Photographer's Formulary solutions you may use same fixer for film and paper as they have no hardener.
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