View Full Version : A problem I hope all of you get to have at least once!
Suddenly I have a fairly large pile of extra $! I won abit from the NY lottery. This is the real deal and the money is in my bank acct. Not enought to retire on--or even buy a car--but enough to put me in a gear dilema.
I have been using(and enjoying) the FSU cameras in large part because of the low cost.
I can now look at some other choices. New Leica is still out of reach if I want more than one lens.
I want to stick with LTM lenses as I think that mount will give me the most options.
My preference is not bottom loaders--are all of the Leica screwmount cameras bottom loading?
The later Canons are appealing as well--almost too many choices.
The Bessa L and the R are both tempting--I do like wide angles and have not many choices that will work on the FSU stuff I have now.
I can make a case for all of these for myself but I don't know enough about all the other(non-FSU) cameras to make an informed decision.
Any help will be much appreciated folks!
Rob
Canon P for the days when you feel like a classic, Voigtlander R2A for the days when you don't want to exercise your mind guessing with exposure. And a full set of lenses from your favourite maker. :-)
Well, I guess if we knew what your budget may be that would help.
Or,
Just buy a Canon P and be done with it.
I think you can rest assured that all of your choices will be good ones so you really can't go wrong.
Brian Sweeney
08-20-2005, 17:21
Congratulation on the Lottery! Of course you could get a Leica body and older LTM lenses or M-Mount for use on it.
Here is a Tip: Any number of us would be glad for you to send us the money and set up a system for you. Not a good idea.
back alley
08-20-2005, 17:26
guess what i'm gonna say?!!
for a classic camera, get a canon p or a leica m2.
up the food chain a bit, m6.
for the journeyman, a bessa r or maybe r3a
the p and the r are screw mount only.
and congrats on the win.
joe
richard_l
08-20-2005, 17:27
I want to stick with LTM lenses as I think that mount will give me the most options.Not really. LTM lenses can be used on M mount cameras (with an adapter) but M lenses cannot be used on LTM cameras.
are all of the Leica screwmount cameras bottom loading?Yes.
Congratulations!
My Mamiya 645 Super w/ a couple of lenses & a nice holiday trip to Teneriffa with Nicole were also bough with a small-time lottery win I once made....
It would be helpful to know what sum we're talking about roughly (don't know whether you want to mention it, though), and also a bit about what your priorities are...
What things are most important to you - nice finder? Quiet shutter? On-board light-meter? Solid all-metal construction? Classic look? Compactness?
I make a wild guess that your win is in the 500 - 1000 USD range (at least that's what it sounds like from your description - not enough for a car or even a new Leica, but good enough for a Bessa or LTM Canon w/ a couple of lenses). That would mean, your option are:
Bessa R/R2/R2a/R3a
Leica CL, or 'user' M2/M3
Canon P/7/other later-model LTMs
Minolta CLE
All of those have pro's and con's , it would be easier to 'counsel' you if you mention some priorities.
A hint: I'm also coming from Russian RFs - then I got a Bessa R because I wanted parallax corrected framelines for various focal lengths, and I'm quite happy with the R; along the way I picked up a CL (the price was right, and I wanted something a bit more compact); I'm still lusting after an M-Leica, though, because of the loud shutter & short rangefinder base of the R (I'd like to use a longer lens in 'available dakness', e.g. in concerts); never thought about the Canon options, because they are rather rare and hard to find here in Europe, and also, I'd rather have a bayonet camera than LTM, I do like to use different lenses regularly...
Roman
back alley
08-20-2005, 17:35
roman, you just need a body for each lens.:)
Well, I guess if we knew what your budget may be that would help.
Or,
Just buy a Canon P and be done with it.
I think you can rest assured that all of your choices will be good ones so you really can't go wrong.
I'm going to have about 2grand to spend :)
Here is a Tip: Any number of us would be glad for you to send us the money and set up a system for you. Not a good idea.
Truly a knid offer, but I just need to eliminate options until I get to what will serve.
Not a discussion I can have with my friends or family: I start talking about this stuff and their eyes glaze over and I have to not be between them and the exit.
I did drive to the nearest local camera store this afternoon and their usual display of used gear is decimated by the college crowd getting ready to start photo 101 classes. No new RF stuff at all(no surprise there)
While I was there I got 20 rolls of Tri-X and a couple of micro-fiber cloths.
Rob
roman, you just need a body for each lens.:)
...and a sherpa to carry them all!
Roman
richard_l
08-20-2005, 17:40
Go ahead and get the M2 now instead of later.
OK, don't know whether you want to spend it all on photo gear, but if you do, you're definitely in Leica territory...
a user M2 for around 500 to 700 USD, and two to three lenses (depending on your preferred focal lenght; either new Voigtlander ones, or older Leica M-mount ones, or various screw-mount options from Leica, Canon, Nikon);
A Leica CL with 40 & 90mm lens-set should also be doable for that money.
Joe is going to advise you to go for a Canon P and 3 or 4 different 35mm Canon LTM lenses ;)
Or you could just get a Bessa R from CameraQuest, and a 35mm lens and a second one, depending on what you like - a 50, 75 or 90, or maybe something even wider.
I guess this is not making it easier... Maybe you should wait for one of those good deals here in the Classifieds section?
Roman
With 2K, I'd get an M6 or M6ttl and still have a bunch left over for other lenses and film. If I only had 1K I'd suggest a Canon P or Leica M2. Just what Joe said.
All good cameras you guys have suggested.
Roman, your short list is appealing and most of them are what I'm trying to sort through. The questions you asked are more helpful, however. I think my first deciscion will be vintage or new. From how I go with that, I will have a much smaller range of choices.
This isn't something I'm going to hurry through. It's too much fun!
Rob
For sure Rob, enjoy the process!
Just be aware that there have been several Bessa cameras advertised for sale over the last month because the seller got a Leica and the Bessa just sits in the bag. There is a reason that Leica is more expensive. You can feel it. To many people it's important, but granted, not for all folks. Find out which type you are. Pick up a Leica and use one for a while if possible. With the windfall that you won, you have the opportunity to buy a Leica, something that does not happen so easily for most people.
I think that the Canon P and VI cameras also exibit the uber-quality of Leica and would make a great choice if you want to spend less and can live without the built-in meter of an M6.
I'll suggest getting the Bessa R + 35/2.5C from Cameraquest (use the click-thru so that RFF gets the referral) first, it's only US$399-. Play with that for a while to see how you like it. If you want to go the M2, M6 or P route, you won't lose much on it, only about the value of a couple of FSU RF's.
Brian Sweeney
08-20-2005, 18:16
For that kind of money you can get an EX+ M3 or M2, have it CLA'd, and pick up some classical glass. You could also go with an M6.
If you went with a Canon P, Vt, or VI you would be picking up the body, have it CLA'd and buying 5 or 6 lenses.
My near mint Nikon SP was $2,000 with an F1.4 lens. It felt like winning the lottery on EBay, it was $400 real dollars turned into $2K after EBay. But I don't think you want to get into Nikon RF's.
I'd go with the Leica for that kind of money, unless you want an instant Canon Camera Collection. You have the money to pick up a better condition camera, lenses, and have them CLA'd. It will last you a lifetime.
I suppose I could spend some of it on a touch typing class so I can keep up with you guys :D
I have only ever bought one new camera(Stylus Epic 3 years ago and now on permanent "loan" to my mother). So that does have some appeal.
The CLE that Roman mentioned isn't going to be on my short list--if a $40 FSU camera tanks, no big deal--but if the CLE's electronics go that would bug me a bunch.
Metering and AE aren't a big deal to me.
If I decide to buy new, seems like I'm looking at Bessa R,R2A,R3A, or Rollei?
But...those Canon P and L cameras are very good looking...
Silly me, I have been looking at and lusting after one seriously good 35mm camera for a long time, I thought this would be easy :rolleyes:
Very helpful so far, people, but I am not working tonight and am getting ready to go hear some live music and get on the outside of a beer or seven.
Have a good night, all, I'll see you tomorrow!
Rob
Terence T
08-20-2005, 18:22
Ahem... look at my sig... :)
I'll suggest getting the Bessa R + 35/2.5C from Cameraquest (use the click-thru so that RFF gets the referral) first, it's only US$399-. Play with that for a while to see how you like it. If you want to go the M2, M6 or P route, you won't lose much on it, only about the value of a couple of FSU RF's.
If I ultimately decide on new Bessa, Mr. Gandy will be the guy I buy from.
One question: 2 FSU RF's? I've got good ones and the R+35 combo is about 5 or 6 of 'em.
Ahem... look at my sig...
I have noticed that as a matter of fact. Good gear there.
Later, folks. Jazz is calling.
Rob
back alley
08-20-2005, 18:39
building on what frank said, i loved the little bessa r with 35 & 75 combo.
it took great pics.
but when i started using the p, my r just sat there. i didn't like it less - just liked the p better. heavier, very solid and felt like it could last ANOTHER 50 years!
with 2 grand this is what I would do...
2 canon p's
28/35/50/100
scanner
lots of film
oh what fun!!!!!
joe
SolaresLarrave
08-20-2005, 18:39
Doesn't Gandy have a black Canon P for sale? That's the perfect investment, Rbiemer.
And, by the way, congratulations on your win!! :) This means real people do win lottery prices! I'm starting to buy mine tomorrow.... again...
building on what frank said, i loved the little bessa r with 35 & 75 combo.
it took great pics.
but when i started using the p, my r just sat there. i didn't like it less - just liked the p better. heavier, very solid and felt like it could last ANOTHER 50 years!
with 2 grand this is what I would do...
2 canon p's
28/35/50/100
scanner
lots of film
oh what fun!!!!!
joe
What Joe, only 2? Why not 4?
I wrote a thought I had on "the feel" of cameras in the "let's chat" thread that I think explains it well.
One question: 2 FSU RF's? I've got good ones and the R+35 combo is about 5 or 6 of 'em.
I meant the loss in value if you decide to resell. A good condition R + 35 for $300- would be a heck of a deal, so you'd likely only have to eat the taxes & shipping.
Of course, a good M2 or M6 would lose virtually nothing on resale. If you get a good deal, it might even gain in value.
back alley
08-20-2005, 18:50
not everyone can be joe!
:)
Joe,
I thought you'd recommend
2 Canon Ps
35/35/35/35 lenses :D
Roman
back alley
08-20-2005, 18:52
i actually did laugh out loud with that line roman!!
joe
Don't buy more gear- go someplace where you've not yet been and take lots of pictures. Use that $2,000 to become the BEST you can possibly be with your tools.
Take it from a Leica (Noctilux, Summilux 35mm ASPH, 90mm AA, 135 Elmarit) and Contax (IIIA, with a CZJ 50) and Kiev (2x4a's, Several J-12's, a couple J-9's, a dozen J-8's, Couple J-13's) and Voigtlander (Vito, Prominent, Nokton, Ultron, Skoparon, and...) and Fuji (S3, Nikkor f/2.8 28-70mm, Sigma 24mm f/1.8, Tamaron 17-35mm f/2.8-f/4) and Mamiya (2xUniversals, 50mm, 65mm, 75mm, 100mm f/2.8, 127mm, 150mm, 250 f/5, plus 2xRB's, 50mm, 90mm, 127mm, 180mm, 250mm)...
Getting the idea that more equipment ain't better? Buy film, go somewhere that's fun and photogenic. Make awesome images with your FSU/Japanese/German/English/Portugues cameras, and have FUN.
My two cents. Then again, I constantly said "aw, to heck with it," and now I have more equipment then I need (and I have to set reminders- here's mine for tomorrow: "Exercise RB lenses"- not kidding!) or easily use.
It IS fun, though. Gonna eventually sell something. Too bad they all take such nice pictures!
Good for you Rob.
If it were me, I would simply make a plan based on the lenses I wanted to use. What do I have and will stay in my A list, what do I want to ad/replace, and then choose a body to match that. You can't make a bad choice with the Bessas and you have a budget which will allow you to put together a very good kit. One that will relieve your GAS pains for a few weeks at least. :)
P C Headland
08-21-2005, 03:48
Don't buy more gear- go someplace where you've not yet been and take lots of pictures. Use that $2,000 to become the BEST you can possibly be with your tools.
That's not a bad idea, but I'm not sure it'll fly here :D - that money will just burn a hole. Of course, you could spend it on a trip to a fabulous photographic location - how about New Zealand (or if you must, Australia!) or Iceland / Scandinavia.
Or, how about a different gear suggestion - move away from miniature format :eek: and get a Bronica RF645 kit from Robert White. Two lenses, a very nice camera, and half decent sized negatives..... You'll still have enough change left over for a freezer load of film. The first roll of slide film back from the developer will convince you that size matters.
Paul
back alley
08-21-2005, 05:28
'move away from miniature format'
omg, i woke up in 1950!
joe;)
Skinny McGee
08-21-2005, 05:51
M2, M3, screwmount adaptor.and a M elmar.100' of film and a bulk loader.and a week off work to go shoot pictures...... I seems even when you get money to get equip. you cna't buy time.... Congrats. on winning.
Music was only fair last night, but I did get to see some old friends that I haven't seen for a while.
Travel is not going to happen any time soon. If I could take some time off, I would've booked a trip already.
I am actually satisfied with my medium format cameras(Kiev60, TLR, and 6x6 folder).
Rover, I like your suggestion. I like the basic set I now have(35,50,85). I will want something wider--15 or 21--and probably not any thing longer.
The hunt is on.
Rob
Brian Sweeney
08-21-2005, 06:24
>>'move away from miniature format'
> omg, i woke up in 1950!
When I first woke up, the trend was set. This is from 1956. So is the camera. Just add water!
Brian Sweeney
08-21-2005, 06:38
And remember, it's not just a camera... It's a System!
And I thought George Lucas invented that 3D lettering.
Music was only fair last night, but I did get to see some old friends that I haven't seen for a while.
Travel is not going to happen any time soon. If I could take some time off, I would've booked a trip already.
I am actually satisfied with my medium format cameras(Kiev60, TLR, and 6x6 folder).
Rover, I like your suggestion. I like the basic set I now have(35,50,85). I will want something wider--15 or 21--and probably not any thing longer.
The hunt is on.
Rob
Sounds like an R2a to me. If your current lens are keepers then you can get the camera, 21 and afford a little vacation to boot.
Do yourself a favour and handle a Leica to see if you can feel a difference. If you can't then consider yourself fortunate because you may likely be happy with an excellent Bessa camera. If you can feel that Leica difference, you may as well save some money and get the Leica now. (I suggest a used M6 or M6ttl) Your existing lenses will fit on the Leica with an adapter. You can start with one that you leave on the camera, but eventually you'll want one for each lens to take advantage of the quick bayonette mounting. Get youself a C/V 21 or 25mm lens as well.
my Canadain 2 cents
Oh yeah... the Russian 35 aka J12 won't fit the Bessa.
Go for the Leica - an M2 / M4-P / M6. My reasoning is you should always be able to either get your money out of them / sell and trade "up" / or augment with another later. THe glass selection is all encomapassing . My personal suggestion is the M4P or M6 and a 35mm summaron or the 40mm summicron-c. Not a bad package to start with. If you go for anything other than the M6 pick up a gossen digisix, a nice little meter.
Pherdinand
08-21-2005, 13:28
man, i am truly sorry for your dilemma:)
congrats, and i guess you cannot make a bad decision if you have such amount
just remember, whatever you buy, it's a |CAMERA not an investment, so use it and enjoy it.
Folks,
Thanks for all your advice! I have decided to get the Bessar+35 combo and a 21mm lens from CameraQuest(Stephen Gandy). And some other misceleanious bits and pieces(filters,tripod,camera bag,more film )
I've got good 50mm lenses and a good 85mm--which will work on the Bessa--so I think I'm good to go gear-wise.
The Leicas that were suggested are all amazingly good cameras but they just didn't call to me(not quite sure why--maybe a bit of reverse snobbery?). And I would be consantly worried about theft/loss.
The best part is that I am spending less than my budget so I will have some money in the bank for the next lens/camera/obsession that comes along! Or, if I actually do get some time off, a plane/train ticket!
Rob :) :) :) :)
Good going, sounds like a wise decision. I am sure that from reading all of our praise of the Bessa R you know to expect a good experience.
Good going, sounds like a wise decision. I am sure that from reading all of our praise of the Bessa R you know to expect a good experience.
The R ain't going to make my photos any better but I will enjoy taking 'em a little more!
Besides, it was either camera gear or beer and hookers and I've seen the hookers in my town :rolleyes:
Now I get to bug the crap out of the daytime bartender where I work:"Any package come for me today?" :D
I'll borrow dad's digiwhatever so I can post some "camera&coffe" pix.
Rpb
The Leicas that were suggested are all amazingly good cameras but they just didn't call to me(not quite sure why--maybe a bit of reverse snobbery?). And I would be consantly worried about theft/loss.
Actually, that is a major consideration. The more you pay for a camera/anything, the more it hurts everytime there's a nick, scratch, and you're constantly worried about it being stolen etc. Of course, that's why so many of us love FSU RF's.
Stephanie Brim
08-23-2005, 10:58
If I had 2,000 dollars right now, I'd pay off my dual G4 Mac, sell it, buy the Powerbook I've been wanting, get a scanner, and finally get my Leica M2 and a 35mm Summicron. Why the 35? Because I have the Canon P with a 50 already and I really need something wider at the moment.
If I didn't have to worry about bills my kit would be as follows: Leica M2, 35 and 90mm Summicrons, and a scanner. I'd probably have to come up with a bit of money to complete this kit because of wanting the faster 90, but I'd do it anyway because it would get more use than a slower one.
Great, now take some of the money you saved and enroll in a statistics class at the local community college and learn why you should stop now while you're ahead. Unless you've been hit by lightning multiple times in your life already. :)
Great, now take some of the money you saved and enroll in a statistics class at the local community college and learn why you should stop now while you're ahead. Unless you've been hit by lightning multiple times in your life already. :)
Can't remember who said it but,"Lotteries are taxes for poeple who can't do math."
I still throw a dollar a week at it. I do have enough math to know I can't buy enough tickets to change my odds so one ticket is enough.
And I will be staying under cover during the next few thunderstorms.
Rob
Hot diggety! My Bessa R came today! It's my day off this week and I was running some errands and decided on a whim to stop by work(where I have all my stuff sent to) and bother the bartender. No one had checked the mailbox til I did. And the delivery attempt notice was here! I run down the block to the Post Office and the box is now sitting on my coffe table!
Mr. Gandy is a pleasure to deal with! Good on the phone--and I shudder to think what time it was when I called him--and emailed me on Sunday to let me know the box went out Saturday.
joe, don't read this sentence, the R took TWO days!
Now I'm going to read the manual and then head out into the evening light!
Be glad you can't see this middleaged white guy doing(badly) the happy dance!
Hope to have something worth sharing in a week or so.
Rob :D :D :D
Brian Sweeney
08-29-2005, 13:34
Congratulations on the camera. I have a mental image, derived from your avatar, of the happy dance. You should be happy.
When Nina used to buy lottery tickets, I always told her to call the winner and ask for her dollar back. Never happened.
Can't wait to hear the good word after your first "date" with Bessa.
back alley
08-29-2005, 15:25
glad to hear it arrived and that it only took 2 days.
meanwhile, i'm waiting on a 2 hoods, a yashicamat, a filter....;)
joe
dostacos
08-29-2005, 18:52
Suddenly I have a fairly large pile of extra $! I won abit from the NY lottery. This is the real deal and the money is in my bank acct. Not enought to retire on--or even buy a car--but enough to put me in a gear dilema.
I have been using(and enjoying) the FSU cameras in large part because of the low cost.
I can now look at some other choices. New Leica is still out of reach if I want more than one lens.
I want to stick with LTM lenses as I think that mount will give me the most options.
My preference is not bottom loaders--are all of the Leica screwmount cameras bottom loading?
The later Canons are appealing as well--almost too many choices.
The Bessa L and the R are both tempting--I do like wide angles and have not many choices that will work on the FSU stuff I have now.
I can make a case for all of these for myself but I don't know enough about all the other(non-FSU) cameras to make an informed decision.
Any help will be much appreciated folks!
Rob
bessa R with 35/2.5 $299.00
15/4.5 helliar with viewfinder $345.00
21/4.0 Color-Skopar couplrd $329.00
28/3.5 Color-Skopar $285.00
50/1.5 Nokton $329.00
75/2.5 Color-Heliar $295.00
total $1,882.00
with a couple a bucks for film .......
OK, first impressions:
The viewfinder is a wonder! Big, bright and easy to focus! Shutter noise is about the same as all of my FSU cameras. Noticable but not annoying.
I am using the good Jupiter-9 that I own and it feels "right" on this baestie, BUT, the Russian rear lens cap does NOT fit on the CV lenses. The deep cap for the J-12 lens would fit but I need to keep that cap for the J-12 so I'm glad that I got an extra cap.
The red LED for the meter readouts shines through the frosted window from the front of the camera. Not a problem but different than what I'm used to.
I'm about halfway through a 36 exposure roll of Tri-X now and since it is now raining steadily(has been for the last two days :bang: after a long dry summer) it will take me a few more days to finish this roll and some more time after that before I get something worth posting...
When I get a camera bag figured out, my kit will be: Bessa R, Zorki 3m, and assorted lenses--21mm CV, 35mm CV, 50mm J-8, 85mm J-9.
As of now, I seriously don't want/need any more gear. I'm not saying I won't buy any more cameras but I certainly don't need anymore. I am sure I will come across something cool and irresistable but whatever that is it will be just for kicks.
Rob
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